@Joans-Town-Jones said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:

@Bovidae said in Black Ferns v England - RWC Final:

The English defence isn't as strong as the French defence, so I'd be confident the BFs can create more scoring opportunities. They just need to take them.

The French defence is better despite losing to England?

Yes. One try each in that game despite England having 67% possession and 70% territory. France made 227 tackles.

In the pool games and QF France conceded only one other try (against SA) before playing NZ. Fiji scored 3 tries in their pool game against England and England conceded 5 in total before the SF.

@Bovidae said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:

@Joans-Town-Jones said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:

@Bovidae said in Black Ferns v England - RWC Final:

The English defence isn't as strong as the French defence, so I'd be confident the BFs can create more scoring opportunities. They just need to take them.

The French defence is better despite losing to England?

Yes. One try each in that game despite England having 67% possession and 70% territory. France made 227 tackles.

In the pool games and QF France conceded only one other try (against SA) before playing NZ. Fiji scored 3 tries in their pool game against England and England conceded 5 in total before the SF.

Hopefully the stats bear out in the final and we can find a little space to do our thing

@Bovidae said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:

@Joans-Town-Jones said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:

@Bovidae said in Black Ferns v England - RWC Final:

The English defence isn't as strong as the French defence, so I'd be confident the BFs can create more scoring opportunities. They just need to take them.

The French defence is better despite losing to England?

Yes. One try each in that game despite England having 67% possession and 70% territory. France made 227 tackles.

In the pool games and QF France conceded only one other try (against SA) before playing NZ. Fiji scored 3 tries in their pool game against England and England conceded 5 in total before the SF.

Oz also sliced open their backline on the one occasion they got them going backwards and Canada regularly made breaks but weren't connected enough in attack to complete.

Don't want to sound snarky but that (very good) length of the field try that England scored and supposedly showed how they can play with expanse wasn't as great as it is being sung about IMO. The breakout from behind the line was because they knew the French fullback was down receiving attention and there was a huge amount of room that side. The rest of the French team were forward and on attack. Good execution and thinking from a turnover but it was also a non defence.

Yes this is a handful of straws I am grasping.

@Crucial said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:

@Bovidae said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:

@Joans-Town-Jones said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:

@Bovidae said in Black Ferns v England - RWC Final:

The English defence isn't as strong as the French defence, so I'd be confident the BFs can create more scoring opportunities. They just need to take them.

The French defence is better despite losing to England?

Yes. One try each in that game despite England having 67% possession and 70% territory. France made 227 tackles.

In the pool games and QF France conceded only one other try (against SA) before playing NZ. Fiji scored 3 tries in their pool game against England and England conceded 5 in total before the SF.

Oz also sliced open their backline on the one occasion they got them going backwards and Canada regularly made breaks but weren't connected enough in attack to complete.

Don't want to sound snarky but that (very good) length of the field try that England scored and supposedly showed how they can play with expanse wasn't as great as it is being sung about IMO. The breakout from behind the line was because they knew the French fullback was down receiving attention and there was a huge amount of room that side. The rest of the French team were forward and on attack. Good execution and thinking from a turnover but it was also a non defence.

Yes this is a handful of straws I am grasping.

Kind of puzzled with this post.

Are you trying to convince yourself it wasn’t a great try?

@Bovidae said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:

@Joans-Town-Jones said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:

@Bovidae said in Black Ferns v England - RWC Final:

The English defence isn't as strong as the French defence, so I'd be confident the BFs can create more scoring opportunities. They just need to take them.

The French defence is better despite losing to England?

Yes. One try each in that game despite England having 67% possession and 70% territory. France made 227 tackles.

In the pool games and QF France conceded only one other try (against SA) before playing NZ. Fiji scored 3 tries in their pool game against England and England conceded 5 in total before the SF.

Furry muff.

@MajorRage said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:

@Crucial said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:

@Bovidae said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:

@Joans-Town-Jones said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:

@Bovidae said in Black Ferns v England - RWC Final:

The English defence isn't as strong as the French defence, so I'd be confident the BFs can create more scoring opportunities. They just need to take them.

The French defence is better despite losing to England?

Yes. One try each in that game despite England having 67% possession and 70% territory. France made 227 tackles.

In the pool games and QF France conceded only one other try (against SA) before playing NZ. Fiji scored 3 tries in their pool game against England and England conceded 5 in total before the SF.

Oz also sliced open their backline on the one occasion they got them going backwards and Canada regularly made breaks but weren't connected enough in attack to complete.

Don't want to sound snarky but that (very good) length of the field try that England scored and supposedly showed how they can play with expanse wasn't as great as it is being sung about IMO. The breakout from behind the line was because they knew the French fullback was down receiving attention and there was a huge amount of room that side. The rest of the French team were forward and on attack. Good execution and thinking from a turnover but it was also a non defence.

Yes this is a handful of straws I am grasping.

Kind of puzzled with this post.

Are you trying to convince yourself it wasn’t a great try?

At the time I thought that the commentary was over hyping how good it was and other media have just fed off that. It was certainly good vision to take the advantage offered, and well executed but from the moment the ball was about 20m out from their own line is was pretty clear field.
I have seen better tries this tournament and dont think it is a sign that England have finally worked out how to play running rugby. Just my opinion.

My concern is that we'll get trapped in our own half and ground down by the English set-piece (a familiar story). We don't seem to have any distance in our kicking game which makes it hard to play for territory, basically have to rely on running it back or a string of penalties to get down the field.

I have nightmares of us getting strangled in a dour match of set piece chess, still I think if we get an early lead and make England chase the game we stand a good chance.

I'm about 80/20 for England but hope I'm wrong!

@Windows97

Wayne Smith factor makes it closer to 50/50 IMO.

@Frye said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:

@Windows97

Wayne Smith factor makes it closer to 50/50 IMO.

They have 2/3 of the 2011 cartel. The effect on the team has been dramatic

Black Ferns team for the Final:

1: Phillipa Love (24)
2: Georgia Ponsonby (12)
3: Amy Rule (11)
4: Maiakawanakaukani Roos (13)
5: Chelsea Bremner (11)
6: Alana Bremner (12)
7: Sarah Hirini (16)
8: Charmaine McMenamin (30)
9: Kendra Cocksedge (67)
10: Ruahei Demant (25) – co-captain
11: Portia Woodman (24)
12: Theresa Fitzpatrick (17)
13: Stacey Fluhler (24)
14: Ruby Tui (9)
15: Renee Holmes (9)

16: Luka Connor (13)
17: Krystal Murray (8)
18: Santo Taumata (6)
19: Joanah Ngan-Woo (16)
20: Kennedy Simon (12) – co-captain
21: Ariana Bayler (7)
22: Hazel Tubic (21)
23: Ayesha Leti-I’iga (20)

Unavailable due to injury: Liana Mikaele-Tu’u

@Stargazer said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:

Black Ferns team for the Final:

1: Phillipa Love (24)
2: Georgia Ponsonby (12)
3: Amy Rule (11)
4: Maiakawanakaukani Roos (13)
5: Chelsea Bremner (11)
6: Alana Bremner (12)
7: Sarah Hirini (16)
8: Charmaine McMenamin (30)
9: Kendra Cocksedge (67)
10: Ruahei Demant (25) – co-captain
11: Portia Woodman (24)
12: Theresa Fitzpatrick (17)
13: Stacey Fluhler (24)
14: Ruby Tui (9)
15: Renee Holmes (9)

16: Luka Connor (13)
17: Krystal Murray (8)
18: Santo Taumata (6)
19: Joanah Ngan-Woo (16)
20: Kennedy Simon (12) – co-captain
21: Ariana Bayler (7)
22: Hazel Tubic (21)
23: Ayesha Leti-I’iga (20)

Unavailable due to injury: Liana Mikaele-Tu’u

A good team with one glaring exception.

I'm a big fan of Smith as a coach but WTF is this blind faith in Cocksedge?

[mod edit]Removed the last sentence. Just a joke obviously but it shifted the thread replies in a bad direction[/mod edit]

@RoninWC said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:

@Stargazer said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:

Black Ferns team for the Final:

1: Phillipa Love (24)
2: Georgia Ponsonby (12)
3: Amy Rule (11)
4: Maiakawanakaukani Roos (13)
5: Chelsea Bremner (11)
6: Alana Bremner (12)
7: Sarah Hirini (16)
8: Charmaine McMenamin (30)
9: Kendra Cocksedge (67)
10: Ruahei Demant (25) – co-captain
11: Portia Woodman (24)
12: Theresa Fitzpatrick (17)
13: Stacey Fluhler (24)
14: Ruby Tui (9)
15: Renee Holmes (9)

16: Luka Connor (13)
17: Krystal Murray (8)
18: Santo Taumata (6)
19: Joanah Ngan-Woo (16)
20: Kennedy Simon (12) – co-captain
21: Ariana Bayler (7)
22: Hazel Tubic (21)
23: Ayesha Leti-I’iga (20)

Unavailable due to injury: Liana Mikaele-Tu’u

A good team with one glaring exception.

I'm a big fan of Smith as a coach but WTF is this blind faith in Cocksedge?

[mod edit]

Neither of the others demanded selection ahead of her tbf. Sure, they had to also overcome the experience points she gets but she directs the players around her better.
Overplayed her hand last week and I think Smith will have given her a rark up about that.
If she starts then at least there is the option of taking her off.

McMenamin is bigger than Simon so I can sort of understand the logic. It will be interesting to see who Simon replaces. If Hirini is being outmuscled at the breakdown she should be subbed.

I expect the English forwards to bring the heat at the breakdown so Cocksedge needs to get the ball away ASAP instead of doing her Marshall traffic cop impersonation.

A 6:2 split on the bench for England. The BFs didn't even use two of their back reserves in the SF.

Maybe Im getting woke in my middle age but can we cut the chauvinism shit out.

@Bovidae said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:

A 6:2 split on the bench for England. The BFs didn't even use two of their back reserves in the SF.

Still need them though. There isn't another 10 except playing someone like Holmes in an emergency. Always need a halfback on the bench and Ayesha as impact.
Besides, I can't see who would make much difference as an additional forward reserve now LMT is out. (McM would have been the candidate)

@Crucial I certainly wasn't suggesting NZ also use a 6:2 split, but, like the Boks, it does signal how England intend to play. This isn't a surprise.