I didn't think it weas that long ago i was hearing about the Southern Kea's (which i like as a mascot) and then i see Graham Lowe fronting the "Southern Orca" (like the name, not sure on the logo), seems very progressed which makes you think this was going on behind the scenes whilst the Kea were trying to get up, pity both efforts werent on the same bid
also worrying if there are people out there willing to invest in sports teams that cant be lured to Rugby Union
I was talking to someone in the know down there, and they said the preference is to have six to 10 games a year brought in by established NRL teams instead of having the liability of a team based in the city.
@SouthernMann i guess that makes sense but it also cuts both ways, there will be people that wont come until its "their" team playing...exhibition/neutral games can only go so far
@antipodean thats the big question, i kind of feel there is lots of people that dont go to the rugby anymore they could tap into...but hopefully theyve done more research than that, a big question would be how many people do they need to getting through the door to cover the stadium rent etc
@SouthernMann said in South Island NRL Bid:
I was talking to someone in the know down there, and they said the preference is to have six to 10 games a year brought in by established NRL teams instead of having the liability of a team based in the city.
I reckon the interest in that would wane pretty quickly. Regular games of your home team would lead to fans returning, regular games of non home team could see the novelty wear off fast.
Interest in the game is massive down here for what it's worth.
Not at grassroots level, but I'd say now that people are more interested in the NRL than Super Rugby in Chch.
@African-Monkey whats considered massive? think they could regularly get 10k to games? more? less?
@African-Monkey said in South Island NRL Bid:
Interest in the game is massive down here for what it's worth.
Not at grassroots level, but I'd say now that people are more interested in the NRL than Super Rugby in Chch.
I''m not going to argue with your experience of living down there, but I've heard similar about NZ since the Warriors hype train of 2023 and each time I've been back in NZ (North Island) this hasn't been borne out.
The $$ figures for this project sound a bit pie in the sky. With Chalmers involvement I'm inclined to believe it's Monopoly money.
Reading the Herald article about it they claim that half the country's registered rugby players are in the catchment zone so it must go pretty deep into the NI then?
Despite my usual hate watching of the Warriors throughout their history the thought of supporting a team from Chch and Welly makes me feel sick to my stomach so I wont switch. If they ever do get off the ground they'll probably win the comp in a couple of years to really rub it in the faces of the Warriors.
@antipodean said in South Island NRL Bid:
Is there sufficient market space in that region to support another professional winter team?
And/or is it under threat from Chinese investment / landgrabs like PNG?
@African-Monkey said in South Island NRL Bid:
Not at grassroots level, but I'd say now that people are more interested in the NRL than Super Rugby in Chch.
Fans last season let on that way due to how bad the Crusaders were going. They love the Crusaders down here more than anything. Half the people I know who were on the ‘wahs’ wagon in 2023 all jumped off this season with the poor results.
Christchurch, or NZ for that matter doesn’t need another NRL team in my opinion. The Warriors have been attractive the last couple seasons but they would be one of the must unsuccessful clubs in terms of accolades in the competition since they joined. Including another NZ side would naturally only weaken them.
The grassroots level of league down here needs a shit load of work done before they even think about having a CHCH based NRL side. There are 6 teams in the premier grade in Christchurch and one of them is from Greymouth… You can understand the intrigue but it’s simply just not a wise or logical decision.
All of that is before you even consider training locations and facilities etc etc.
there have been so many final nails.
Landers is totally right. The warriors are proving that the junior pathways don't exist at the moment. They need establishment well before adding another senior team.
And in all reality you are adding two teams, because you need another NSW cup team or you are doomed from the start.
@Kiwiwomble said in South Island NRL Bid:
@African-Monkey whats considered massive? think they could regularly get 10k to games? more? less?
I believe so. The Wahs v Raiders could have sold out twice and the recent Kiwis v Kangaroos game was a sell out too. As I stated, League at the highest level is big right now, one of the reasons why it isn't as popular down at grassroots level is due to a lack of pathways down here, hence why you get the likes of Jamayne Isaako, an Aranui boy with a league background, getting his break via 1st XV rugby down here.
@Landers92 I agree with you in terms of there only being 6 teams, and seeing the demise of Papanui and Kaiapoi of late, but when there's nothing really to aspire to in the league system down here and you get so many rugby league scouts at rugby union fixtures, it contributes to the demise of league at the grassroots level. Plenty of talent out here in the east gets wasted into oblivion as a result, or, like Richie Mo'unga, they end up in the rugby union system due to more opportunities being presented there.
@African-Monkey said in South Island NRL Bid:
@Kiwiwomble said in South Island NRL Bid:
@African-Monkey whats considered massive? think they could regularly get 10k to games? more? less?
I believe so. The Wahs v Raiders could have sold out twice and the recent Kiwis v Kangaroos game was a sell out too. As I stated, League at the highest level is big right now, one of the reasons why it isn't as popular down at grassroots level is due to a lack of pathways down here, hence why you get the likes of Jamayne Isaako, an Aranui boy with a league background, getting his break via 1st XV rugby down here.
@Landers92 I agree with you in terms of there only being 6 teams, and seeing the demise of Papanui and Kaiapoi of late, but when there's nothing really to aspire to in the league system down here and you get so many rugby league scouts at rugby union fixtures, it contributes to the demise of league at the grassroots level. Plenty of talent out here in the east gets wasted into oblivion as a result, or, like Richie Mo'unga, they end up in the rugby union system due to more opportunities being presented there.
I'm not advocating for a side to be put down here at all, the comp is already stretched enough as it is, but there is genuine interest in the game here, and you'd get far more Jordan Riki's, Griffin Neame's, Jamayne Isaako's etc. discovered if a team was eventually put down here.
@African-Monkey i dont know how much weight i put on numbers coming off events like those though, Mrs Womble will go to "an event"....but shes not going to turn up for a mid season / mid table game in the middle of winter
i kind of feel they need to have members signed up (like AFL bids often do) even just EOI's
@Kiwiwomble said in South Island NRL Bid:
@African-Monkey i dont know how much weight i put on numbers coming off events like those though, Mrs Womble will go to "an event"....but shes not going to turn up for a mid season / mid table game in the middle of winter
i kind of feel they need to have members signed up (like AFL bids often do) even just EOI's
Sure, it won't sell out every week, but they'll have a new stadium soon, playing in Addington has more than run its race, and they're a loyal bunch down here (one eyed, as people from outside the region like to describe then as).
As has been stated, there's plenty of hoops to go through before putting a team in, but to dismiss interest in the game down here is madness I feel.
i dont think many are out right dismissing, but there is a lot of middle ground between "there is no support" and "there is massive support" and the line of viability is somewhere in there and would really like to seem more certain info on how confident they are they are on the right side of that viability line
i live in chch for a long time and i dont remember a hell of a lot of league talk so im concerned the interest is very much centred around the clubs scene...and im not sure how big that actually is
@Kiwiwomble said in South Island NRL Bid:
i dont think many are out right dismissing, but there is a lot of middle ground between "there is no support" and "there is massive support" and the line of viability is somewhere in there and would really like to seem more certain info on how confident they are they are on the right side of that viability line
i live in chch for a long time and i dont remember a hell of a lot of league talk so im concerned the interest is very much centred around the clubs scene...and im not sure how big that actually is
Oh yeah, from when I first moved here to where it is now, it's grown. But yeah, the grassroots system is down and part of the reason is due to a lack of pathways. As I said, you get more exposure via 1st XV rugby down here, with plenty of league scouts sniffing around, the grassroots of league leads you to nowhere really. The warriors pathway barely stretches past Auckland, they were offered Leicester Fai'anganuku and Jordan Riki as two examples and didn't even consider them. Plenty of talent gets lost down here as a result.
@African-Monkey Any idea who these South Island based equity investors who are fronting up with this $60m are?
@Kiwiwomble said in South Island NRL Bid:
@African-Monkey i dont know how much weight i put on numbers coming off events like those though, Mrs Womble will go to "an event"....but shes not going to turn up for a mid season / mid table game in the middle of winter
Warriors do though. They miss the playoffs and sell out all season.
Warriors have had consistently good crowds since the Eric Watson years of 2001 despite some up and down results.
Whilst I don't think rugby will die in NZ - it's going nowhere with the dinosaurs from NZR at the wheel.
In some ways it might be a good thing for NZR - it might finally kick them into action.
@KiwiMurph said in South Island NRL Bid:
@Kiwiwomble said in South Island NRL Bid:
@African-Monkey i dont know how much weight i put on numbers coming off events like those though, Mrs Womble will go to "an event"....but shes not going to turn up for a mid season / mid table game in the middle of winter
Warriors do though. They miss the playoffs and sell out all season.
Warriors have had consistently good crowds since the Eric Watson years of 2001 despite some up and down results.
Whilst I don't think rugby will die in NZ - it's going nowhere with the dinosaurs from NZR at the wheel.
In some ways it might be a good thing for NZR - it might finally kick them into action.
dunno, I think thier heads are so far up thier arses they are still looking down at league and clearly dont think they need to do anything
@KiwiMurph said in South Island NRL Bid:
@Kiwiwomble said in South Island NRL Bid:
@African-Monkey i dont know how much weight i put on numbers coming off events like those though, Mrs Womble will go to "an event"....but shes not going to turn up for a mid season / mid table game in the middle of winter
Warriors do though. They miss the playoffs and sell out all season.
Warriors have had consistently good crowds since the Eric Watson years of 2001 despite some up and down results.
Whilst I don't think rugby will die in NZ - it's going nowhere with the dinosaurs from NZR at the wheel.
In some ways it might be a good thing for NZR - it might finally kick them into action.
I don't know if that is strictly true, the Warriors have a pretty decent core crowd who always turn up, but aside from the last two hype years crowds haven't always been that good. They averaged 13k in 2019 the last year before the pandemic. 17k in 18 (made the 8), 12k in 17, 14k in 16, 14k in 15 etc. I guess it depends on how we define good.
@KiwiMurph said in South Island NRL Bid:
@Kiwiwomble said in South Island NRL Bid:
@African-Monkey i dont know how much weight i put on numbers coming off events like those though, Mrs Womble will go to "an event"....but shes not going to turn up for a mid season / mid table game in the middle of winter
Warriors do though. They miss the playoffs and sell out all season.
Warriors have had consistently good crowds since the Eric Watson years of 2001 despite some up and down results.
Whilst I don't think rugby will die in NZ - it's going nowhere with the dinosaurs from NZR at the wheel.
In some ways it might be a good thing for NZR - it might finally kick them into action.
Look at Melbourne. A few guys on this very thread live there, hardly what you would call a rugby league hub, certainly wasn't in 1998, and yet they've missed 2 finals series in their history with the limited resources they started off with. It was laughed at as a destination, certainly isn't now.
Chch has always had a respectable rugby league scene. Yes, Union is the bigger code down here, but some big clubs down here will always be rugby league territory (Hornby, Halswell, Linwood, Aranui to name a few), and many Kiwi internationals have come from this part of the world with as I have mentioned plenty of times already, with very limited to zero pathways.
And yes, I agree with you fully in regards to the dinosaurs from NZR.
@Nepia No idea sorry, would like to know though out of interest haha.
@KiwiMurph said in South Island NRL Bid:
@Kiwiwomble said in South Island NRL Bid:
@African-Monkey i dont know how much weight i put on numbers coming off events like those though, Mrs Womble will go to "an event"....but shes not going to turn up for a mid season / mid table game in the middle of winter
Warriors do though. They miss the playoffs and sell out all season.
Warriors have had consistently good crowds since the Eric Watson years of 2001 despite some up and down results.
Whilst I don't think rugby will die in NZ - it's going nowhere with the dinosaurs from NZR at the wheel.
In some ways it might be a good thing for NZR - it might finally kick them into action.
the warriors give away thousands of tickets dont they?
any, my feeling was league in auckland is a bigger deal than chch, so im just curious what reseach theyve done other than "it kind of worked in auckland"
You don’t actually need a grassroots system to get a sport going
Japan is a classic example of that
In the 1970’s rugby was by far the dominant football code and soccer football was virtually non-existent
In the early 80’s a professional soccer league was established and the sport in Japan was built from the top down, with tremendous success you’d have to say
There is going to be a new NRL team in NZ next season, an NRLW team
Now this is very small beer in the scheme of things, but it might show us what might happen going forward
Be interesting to see the player roster the warriors NRLW eventually put together
Not the particularly the individual players, but where they have been recruited from
Watched a bit of NRLW this year (very entertaining) and a large number of players had come across from rugby union (both 7’s and 15’s)
The ABs are always going to be an absolute weapon (on and off field), and AB players have nice contracts
Not sure what a SR/NPC only player is on, but average NRL pay is well over 400K now
The next NRL casting deal is going to be huge, so they are heading for a 500k+ average (20 teams)
The players might take the lead (ladies first)
I’d say in the end it’ll be “show me the money”
