Halfback GOAT

@Jet said in All Blacks 2026:

@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks 2026:

@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2026:

@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks 2026:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:

@Canes4life said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@reprobate said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@Canes4life said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@reprobate said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@Canes4life said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@MiketheSnow said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@Bones said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

Rattle JGP, get him off his game and they're a bit of a nothing side now.

Same could be said for Roigard

He's easily our most important player and with a strike rate like the below he's going to break plenty of records.

I think he is our most important player, but only due to the lack of similar (in style and quality) options behind him.

Yeah but that’s also purely down to how dominant of a player he is. It’s pretty obvious that Roigard has become the dominant decision maker for the ABs.

Historically it’s been the 10 making most of the big decisions, but in recent years that has shifted to the 9, we’ve seen it with JGP at Ireland and Du Pont at France. 9s are having a lot more say on the game than they used to.

That's not some sort of historical trend mate, it's Sexton retiring and France playing a different style. There have always been some 9s who play that way (Weepu, Going, Bachop to an extent) and 10s who range from very dominant game controllers to just a link in the chain.

Roigard is dominant, and does a lot of the kicking, particularly exits. I would be mildly concerned with how that would go if Roigard gets injured.

The historical consensus in rugby has always been that the No. 10 is the primary game driver - the quarterback, so to speak, while the No. 9's role has largely been to link the forwards with the first five. What we're seeing now, though, is halfbacks taking control of matches more than ever before. One of the major benefits of that shift is that it allows you to blood a young No. 10 like Love much more comfortably, as the bulk of the decision-making no longer rests solely on his shoulders like it traditionally has.

Disagree with you on that one mate, I think it still is the consensus, and all we're seeing is 2 or 3 exceptional players causing a blip on the graph. For me it is kind of just as simple as you get a better view from 10, you're better placed to see things which trigger decisions - and that hasn't changed.

I think in the NH particularly the French , they use the halfback a lot more than us to put a bit of control on the tempo of the game .

Where as we tend to traditionally just want quick ball from the HB . Get in the tens hands ASAP .But maybe that’ part is starting to change a bit with Roigard.

I think this is because of rush defences , and 10s can get crowded more with them. I genuinely wonder at times how the likes of Merts, Carter etc would play against the rush defence we have these days. I do think it is changing how our insides play, and reason the box kicking form 9s is so much a thing.

That’s a good point , and roigard sniping probably makes the rush defence hesitant as well

He is the most important Allblack in the squad as it stands in my opinion.

Of course he is, and quite comfortably.

But that is not because he's the bestest greatest player ever in the whole wide world - and although he is certainly very influential, it's not entirely that either. It is largely because our other world class players: the front row, the locks, 12, wing, 15 - even 10 - all have world class back-ups (and we don't even know who our best loosies or centre are).

The reality is that while he is our most important player he's not as good as our last AB halfback, he's not as good as Du Pont so he's not in the world XV, and last time we played Ireland JGP outplayed him.

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:

@Jet said in All Blacks 2026:

@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks 2026:

@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2026:

@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks 2026:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:

@Canes4life said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@reprobate said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@Canes4life said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@reprobate said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@Canes4life said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@MiketheSnow said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@Bones said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

Rattle JGP, get him off his game and they're a bit of a nothing side now.

Same could be said for Roigard

He's easily our most important player and with a strike rate like the below he's going to break plenty of records.

I think he is our most important player, but only due to the lack of similar (in style and quality) options behind him.

Yeah but that’s also purely down to how dominant of a player he is. It’s pretty obvious that Roigard has become the dominant decision maker for the ABs.

Historically it’s been the 10 making most of the big decisions, but in recent years that has shifted to the 9, we’ve seen it with JGP at Ireland and Du Pont at France. 9s are having a lot more say on the game than they used to.

That's not some sort of historical trend mate, it's Sexton retiring and France playing a different style. There have always been some 9s who play that way (Weepu, Going, Bachop to an extent) and 10s who range from very dominant game controllers to just a link in the chain.

Roigard is dominant, and does a lot of the kicking, particularly exits. I would be mildly concerned with how that would go if Roigard gets injured.

The historical consensus in rugby has always been that the No. 10 is the primary game driver - the quarterback, so to speak, while the No. 9's role has largely been to link the forwards with the first five. What we're seeing now, though, is halfbacks taking control of matches more than ever before. One of the major benefits of that shift is that it allows you to blood a young No. 10 like Love much more comfortably, as the bulk of the decision-making no longer rests solely on his shoulders like it traditionally has.

Disagree with you on that one mate, I think it still is the consensus, and all we're seeing is 2 or 3 exceptional players causing a blip on the graph. For me it is kind of just as simple as you get a better view from 10, you're better placed to see things which trigger decisions - and that hasn't changed.

I think in the NH particularly the French , they use the halfback a lot more than us to put a bit of control on the tempo of the game .

Where as we tend to traditionally just want quick ball from the HB . Get in the tens hands ASAP .But maybe that’ part is starting to change a bit with Roigard.

I think this is because of rush defences , and 10s can get crowded more with them. I genuinely wonder at times how the likes of Merts, Carter etc would play against the rush defence we have these days. I do think it is changing how our insides play, and reason the box kicking form 9s is so much a thing.

That’s a good point , and roigard sniping probably makes the rush defence hesitant as well

He is the most important Allblack in the squad as it stands in my opinion.

Of course he is, and quite comfortably.

But that is not because he's the bestest greatest player ever in the whole wide world - and although he is certainly very influential, it's not entirely that either. It is largely because our other world class players: the front row, the locks, 12, wing, 15 - even 10 - all have world class back-ups (and we don't even now who our best loosies or centre are).

The reality is that while he is our most important player he's not as good as our last AB halfback, he's not as good as Du Pont so he's not in the world XV, and last time we played Ireland JGP outplayed him.

I think he is as good as Du Pont.

That lad hasnt even played NZ, SA or Australia in the Southern hemisphere yet in a career going back to 2017.

#Fraud

He is arguably not even the best 9 in France anymore.

@Jet said in All Blacks 2026:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:

@Jet said in All Blacks 2026:

@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks 2026:

@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2026:

@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks 2026:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:

@Canes4life said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@reprobate said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@Canes4life said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@reprobate said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@Canes4life said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@MiketheSnow said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@Bones said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

Rattle JGP, get him off his game and they're a bit of a nothing side now.

Same could be said for Roigard

He's easily our most important player and with a strike rate like the below he's going to break plenty of records.

I think he is our most important player, but only due to the lack of similar (in style and quality) options behind him.

Yeah but that’s also purely down to how dominant of a player he is. It’s pretty obvious that Roigard has become the dominant decision maker for the ABs.

Historically it’s been the 10 making most of the big decisions, but in recent years that has shifted to the 9, we’ve seen it with JGP at Ireland and Du Pont at France. 9s are having a lot more say on the game than they used to.

That's not some sort of historical trend mate, it's Sexton retiring and France playing a different style. There have always been some 9s who play that way (Weepu, Going, Bachop to an extent) and 10s who range from very dominant game controllers to just a link in the chain.

Roigard is dominant, and does a lot of the kicking, particularly exits. I would be mildly concerned with how that would go if Roigard gets injured.

The historical consensus in rugby has always been that the No. 10 is the primary game driver - the quarterback, so to speak, while the No. 9's role has largely been to link the forwards with the first five. What we're seeing now, though, is halfbacks taking control of matches more than ever before. One of the major benefits of that shift is that it allows you to blood a young No. 10 like Love much more comfortably, as the bulk of the decision-making no longer rests solely on his shoulders like it traditionally has.

Disagree with you on that one mate, I think it still is the consensus, and all we're seeing is 2 or 3 exceptional players causing a blip on the graph. For me it is kind of just as simple as you get a better view from 10, you're better placed to see things which trigger decisions - and that hasn't changed.

I think in the NH particularly the French , they use the halfback a lot more than us to put a bit of control on the tempo of the game .

Where as we tend to traditionally just want quick ball from the HB . Get in the tens hands ASAP .But maybe that’ part is starting to change a bit with Roigard.

I think this is because of rush defences , and 10s can get crowded more with them. I genuinely wonder at times how the likes of Merts, Carter etc would play against the rush defence we have these days. I do think it is changing how our insides play, and reason the box kicking form 9s is so much a thing.

That’s a good point , and roigard sniping probably makes the rush defence hesitant as well

He is the most important Allblack in the squad as it stands in my opinion.

Of course he is, and quite comfortably.

But that is not because he's the bestest greatest player ever in the whole wide world - and although he is certainly very influential, it's not entirely that either. It is largely because our other world class players: the front row, the locks, 12, wing, 15 - even 10 - all have world class back-ups (and we don't even now who our best loosies or centre are).

The reality is that while he is our most important player he's not as good as our last AB halfback, he's not as good as Du Pont so he's not in the world XV, and last time we played Ireland JGP outplayed him.

I think he is as good as Du Pont.

That lad hasnt even played NZ, SA or Australia in the Southern hemisphere yet in a career going back to 2017.

#Fraud

He is arguably not even the best 9 in France anymore.

France have depth at 9 like we have at 2 - you could equally say it's arguable whether Cam would make a French 23.

@Jet said in All Blacks 2026:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:

@Jet said in All Blacks 2026:

@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks 2026:

@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2026:

@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks 2026:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:

@Canes4life said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@reprobate said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@Canes4life said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@reprobate said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@Canes4life said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@MiketheSnow said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@Bones said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

Rattle JGP, get him off his game and they're a bit of a nothing side now.

Same could be said for Roigard

He's easily our most important player and with a strike rate like the below he's going to break plenty of records.

I think he is our most important player, but only due to the lack of similar (in style and quality) options behind him.

Yeah but that’s also purely down to how dominant of a player he is. It’s pretty obvious that Roigard has become the dominant decision maker for the ABs.

Historically it’s been the 10 making most of the big decisions, but in recent years that has shifted to the 9, we’ve seen it with JGP at Ireland and Du Pont at France. 9s are having a lot more say on the game than they used to.

That's not some sort of historical trend mate, it's Sexton retiring and France playing a different style. There have always been some 9s who play that way (Weepu, Going, Bachop to an extent) and 10s who range from very dominant game controllers to just a link in the chain.

Roigard is dominant, and does a lot of the kicking, particularly exits. I would be mildly concerned with how that would go if Roigard gets injured.

The historical consensus in rugby has always been that the No. 10 is the primary game driver - the quarterback, so to speak, while the No. 9's role has largely been to link the forwards with the first five. What we're seeing now, though, is halfbacks taking control of matches more than ever before. One of the major benefits of that shift is that it allows you to blood a young No. 10 like Love much more comfortably, as the bulk of the decision-making no longer rests solely on his shoulders like it traditionally has.

Disagree with you on that one mate, I think it still is the consensus, and all we're seeing is 2 or 3 exceptional players causing a blip on the graph. For me it is kind of just as simple as you get a better view from 10, you're better placed to see things which trigger decisions - and that hasn't changed.

I think in the NH particularly the French , they use the halfback a lot more than us to put a bit of control on the tempo of the game .

Where as we tend to traditionally just want quick ball from the HB . Get in the tens hands ASAP .But maybe that’ part is starting to change a bit with Roigard.

I think this is because of rush defences , and 10s can get crowded more with them. I genuinely wonder at times how the likes of Merts, Carter etc would play against the rush defence we have these days. I do think it is changing how our insides play, and reason the box kicking form 9s is so much a thing.

That’s a good point , and roigard sniping probably makes the rush defence hesitant as well

He is the most important Allblack in the squad as it stands in my opinion.

Of course he is, and quite comfortably.

But that is not because he's the bestest greatest player ever in the whole wide world - and although he is certainly very influential, it's not entirely that either. It is largely because our other world class players: the front row, the locks, 12, wing, 15 - even 10 - all have world class back-ups (and we don't even now who our best loosies or centre are).

The reality is that while he is our most important player he's not as good as our last AB halfback, he's not as good as Du Pont so he's not in the world XV, and last time we played Ireland JGP outplayed him.

I think he is as good as Du Pont.

That lad hasnt even played NZ, SA or Australia in the Southern hemisphere yet in a career going back to 2017.

#Fraud

He is arguably not even the best 9 in France anymore.

That's fucking crazy, fraud alright, completely avoiding the toughest challenge in world rugby.

@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2026:

@Jet said in All Blacks 2026:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:

@Jet said in All Blacks 2026:

@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks 2026:

@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2026:

@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks 2026:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:

@Canes4life said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@reprobate said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@Canes4life said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@reprobate said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@Canes4life said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@MiketheSnow said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@Bones said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

Rattle JGP, get him off his game and they're a bit of a nothing side now.

Same could be said for Roigard

He's easily our most important player and with a strike rate like the below he's going to break plenty of records.

I think he is our most important player, but only due to the lack of similar (in style and quality) options behind him.

Yeah but that’s also purely down to how dominant of a player he is. It’s pretty obvious that Roigard has become the dominant decision maker for the ABs.

Historically it’s been the 10 making most of the big decisions, but in recent years that has shifted to the 9, we’ve seen it with JGP at Ireland and Du Pont at France. 9s are having a lot more say on the game than they used to.

That's not some sort of historical trend mate, it's Sexton retiring and France playing a different style. There have always been some 9s who play that way (Weepu, Going, Bachop to an extent) and 10s who range from very dominant game controllers to just a link in the chain.

Roigard is dominant, and does a lot of the kicking, particularly exits. I would be mildly concerned with how that would go if Roigard gets injured.

The historical consensus in rugby has always been that the No. 10 is the primary game driver - the quarterback, so to speak, while the No. 9's role has largely been to link the forwards with the first five. What we're seeing now, though, is halfbacks taking control of matches more than ever before. One of the major benefits of that shift is that it allows you to blood a young No. 10 like Love much more comfortably, as the bulk of the decision-making no longer rests solely on his shoulders like it traditionally has.

Disagree with you on that one mate, I think it still is the consensus, and all we're seeing is 2 or 3 exceptional players causing a blip on the graph. For me it is kind of just as simple as you get a better view from 10, you're better placed to see things which trigger decisions - and that hasn't changed.

I think in the NH particularly the French , they use the halfback a lot more than us to put a bit of control on the tempo of the game .

Where as we tend to traditionally just want quick ball from the HB . Get in the tens hands ASAP .But maybe that’ part is starting to change a bit with Roigard.

I think this is because of rush defences , and 10s can get crowded more with them. I genuinely wonder at times how the likes of Merts, Carter etc would play against the rush defence we have these days. I do think it is changing how our insides play, and reason the box kicking form 9s is so much a thing.

That’s a good point , and roigard sniping probably makes the rush defence hesitant as well

He is the most important Allblack in the squad as it stands in my opinion.

Of course he is, and quite comfortably.

But that is not because he's the bestest greatest player ever in the whole wide world - and although he is certainly very influential, it's not entirely that either. It is largely because our other world class players: the front row, the locks, 12, wing, 15 - even 10 - all have world class back-ups (and we don't even now who our best loosies or centre are).

The reality is that while he is our most important player he's not as good as our last AB halfback, he's not as good as Du Pont so he's not in the world XV, and last time we played Ireland JGP outplayed him.

I think he is as good as Du Pont.

That lad hasnt even played NZ, SA or Australia in the Southern hemisphere yet in a career going back to 2017.

#Fraud

He is arguably not even the best 9 in France anymore.

That's fucking crazy, fraud alright, completely avoiding the toughest challenge in world rugby.

Well to a degree - but it's not as bad as it sounds.
He was what 20 years old in 2017? Then you have covid, an ACL injury, time off for the Olympics, and the long French club season meaning they often send B teams.

@reprobate I don't think the reasons really matter, NZ win about 85% of test matches at home, SA around 75%. No other teams come close to those records, if Du Pont has never even played a test against them in their own back yard in 9 years then he hasn't fully tested his abilities in the toughest conditions. It's like a batsmen in cricket just playing at home in favourable conditions while avoiding India and Aus, then people claim they are the best in the world. His win record with France has to have an asterisk next to it as well given he avoids their hardest games. I know he's a class player but people's reputations get damaged when they shit the bed in NZ and SA, he's never had to go through that.

@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2026:

@reprobate I don't think the reasons really matter, NZ win about 85% of test matches at home, SA around 75%. No other teams come close to those records, if Du Pont has never even played a test against them in their own back yard in 9 years then he hasn't fully tested his abilities in the toughest conditions. It's like a batsmen in cricket just playing at home in favourable conditions while avoiding India and Aus, then people claim they are the best in the world. His win record with France has to have an asterisk next to it as well given he avoids their hardest games. I know he's a class player but people's reputations get damaged when they shit the bed in NZ and SA, he's never had to go through that.

Just like the Indian batsmen who used to rack up huge averages at home. But when they went offshore into foreign conditions they were found out

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:

@Jet said in All Blacks 2026:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:

@Jet said in All Blacks 2026:

@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks 2026:

@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2026:

@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks 2026:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:

@Canes4life said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@reprobate said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@Canes4life said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@reprobate said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@Canes4life said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@MiketheSnow said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@Bones said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

Rattle JGP, get him off his game and they're a bit of a nothing side now.

Same could be said for Roigard

He's easily our most important player and with a strike rate like the below he's going to break plenty of records.

I think he is our most important player, but only due to the lack of similar (in style and quality) options behind him.

Yeah but that’s also purely down to how dominant of a player he is. It’s pretty obvious that Roigard has become the dominant decision maker for the ABs.

Historically it’s been the 10 making most of the big decisions, but in recent years that has shifted to the 9, we’ve seen it with JGP at Ireland and Du Pont at France. 9s are having a lot more say on the game than they used to.

That's not some sort of historical trend mate, it's Sexton retiring and France playing a different style. There have always been some 9s who play that way (Weepu, Going, Bachop to an extent) and 10s who range from very dominant game controllers to just a link in the chain.

Roigard is dominant, and does a lot of the kicking, particularly exits. I would be mildly concerned with how that would go if Roigard gets injured.

The historical consensus in rugby has always been that the No. 10 is the primary game driver - the quarterback, so to speak, while the No. 9's role has largely been to link the forwards with the first five. What we're seeing now, though, is halfbacks taking control of matches more than ever before. One of the major benefits of that shift is that it allows you to blood a young No. 10 like Love much more comfortably, as the bulk of the decision-making no longer rests solely on his shoulders like it traditionally has.

Disagree with you on that one mate, I think it still is the consensus, and all we're seeing is 2 or 3 exceptional players causing a blip on the graph. For me it is kind of just as simple as you get a better view from 10, you're better placed to see things which trigger decisions - and that hasn't changed.

I think in the NH particularly the French , they use the halfback a lot more than us to put a bit of control on the tempo of the game .

Where as we tend to traditionally just want quick ball from the HB . Get in the tens hands ASAP .But maybe that’ part is starting to change a bit with Roigard.

I think this is because of rush defences , and 10s can get crowded more with them. I genuinely wonder at times how the likes of Merts, Carter etc would play against the rush defence we have these days. I do think it is changing how our insides play, and reason the box kicking form 9s is so much a thing.

That’s a good point , and roigard sniping probably makes the rush defence hesitant as well

He is the most important Allblack in the squad as it stands in my opinion.

Of course he is, and quite comfortably.

But that is not because he's the bestest greatest player ever in the whole wide world - and although he is certainly very influential, it's not entirely that either. It is largely because our other world class players: the front row, the locks, 12, wing, 15 - even 10 - all have world class back-ups (and we don't even now who our best loosies or centre are).

The reality is that while he is our most important player he's not as good as our last AB halfback, he's not as good as Du Pont so he's not in the world XV, and last time we played Ireland JGP outplayed him.

I think he is as good as Du Pont.

That lad hasnt even played NZ, SA or Australia in the Southern hemisphere yet in a career going back to 2017.

#Fraud

He is arguably not even the best 9 in France anymore.

France have depth at 9 like we have at 2 - you could equally say it's arguable whether Cam would make a French 23.

lol yes he would. You’re just buying into the French fluffing of both of those halfbacks.

Cam Roigard is better than DuPont and Lucu and he comfortably outplayed both of them in previous matchups. If it wasn’t for his serious injury in 2024 there would be no argument about who the best halfback in the world is.

There’s definitely areas of Roigard’s game that are simply unmatched globally and the scary thing is he’s still got plenty of growth in him.

@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:

@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2026:

I haven't seen much of Pledger at all yet, but one thing I'll say is Fozzie made the mistake of not giving Roigard nearly enough minutes in the lead up to the 23 WC despite his obvious talent, and that was costly as Roigard was exactly the kind of HB we could have used in the final after going a man down. Like others I want to see a lot more bravery from the coaches (we already are TBH), where if they see someone that is obviously a special player they get them in and give them meaningful minutes to develop them. I dont want situation like Love where he is 25 years old before he even gets a meaningful shot despite being obviously better than the incumbents.

It's been said many times, if Cam plays the final we probably win RWC23

Or if the officiating hadn’t been complete nonsense on just one of several occasions. Or if the All Blacks had kicked one of the missed shots at goal. Or if Frizell had put in some effort on defence. Or if any of another half-dozen things had gone differently.

@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks 2026:

@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:

@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2026:

I haven't seen much of Pledger at all yet, but one thing I'll say is Fozzie made the mistake of not giving Roigard nearly enough minutes in the lead up to the 23 WC despite his obvious talent, and that was costly as Roigard was exactly the kind of HB we could have used in the final after going a man down. Like others I want to see a lot more bravery from the coaches (we already are TBH), where if they see someone that is obviously a special player they get them in and give them meaningful minutes to develop them. I dont want situation like Love where he is 25 years old before he even gets a meaningful shot despite being obviously better than the incumbents.

It's been said many times, if Cam plays the final we probably win RWC23

Or if the officiating hadn’t been complete nonsense on just one of several occasions. Or if the All Blacks had kicked one of the missed shots at goal. Or if Frizell had put in some effort on defence. Or if any of another half-dozen things had gone differently.

Totally agree. But Cam at that tournament was almost a perfect storm, a bit in the same way as NMS was in 2015. He was so new it would have been tricky to fully scout for him, in the games he played in the lead up he was singlehandedly tearing holes in the opposition. Opportunity lost for Fozzie, that one decision could have affected his legacy in a major way. You can't forget the previous few years, but RWC winner has a nice ring to it

@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2026:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:

@Jet said in All Blacks 2026:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:

@Jet said in All Blacks 2026:

@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks 2026:

@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2026:

@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks 2026:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:

@Canes4life said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@reprobate said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@Canes4life said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@reprobate said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@Canes4life said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@MiketheSnow said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@Bones said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

Rattle JGP, get him off his game and they're a bit of a nothing side now.

Same could be said for Roigard

He's easily our most important player and with a strike rate like the below he's going to break plenty of records.

I think he is our most important player, but only due to the lack of similar (in style and quality) options behind him.

Yeah but that’s also purely down to how dominant of a player he is. It’s pretty obvious that Roigard has become the dominant decision maker for the ABs.

Historically it’s been the 10 making most of the big decisions, but in recent years that has shifted to the 9, we’ve seen it with JGP at Ireland and Du Pont at France. 9s are having a lot more say on the game than they used to.

That's not some sort of historical trend mate, it's Sexton retiring and France playing a different style. There have always been some 9s who play that way (Weepu, Going, Bachop to an extent) and 10s who range from very dominant game controllers to just a link in the chain.

Roigard is dominant, and does a lot of the kicking, particularly exits. I would be mildly concerned with how that would go if Roigard gets injured.

The historical consensus in rugby has always been that the No. 10 is the primary game driver - the quarterback, so to speak, while the No. 9's role has largely been to link the forwards with the first five. What we're seeing now, though, is halfbacks taking control of matches more than ever before. One of the major benefits of that shift is that it allows you to blood a young No. 10 like Love much more comfortably, as the bulk of the decision-making no longer rests solely on his shoulders like it traditionally has.

Disagree with you on that one mate, I think it still is the consensus, and all we're seeing is 2 or 3 exceptional players causing a blip on the graph. For me it is kind of just as simple as you get a better view from 10, you're better placed to see things which trigger decisions - and that hasn't changed.

I think in the NH particularly the French , they use the halfback a lot more than us to put a bit of control on the tempo of the game .

Where as we tend to traditionally just want quick ball from the HB . Get in the tens hands ASAP .But maybe that’ part is starting to change a bit with Roigard.

I think this is because of rush defences , and 10s can get crowded more with them. I genuinely wonder at times how the likes of Merts, Carter etc would play against the rush defence we have these days. I do think it is changing how our insides play, and reason the box kicking form 9s is so much a thing.

That’s a good point , and roigard sniping probably makes the rush defence hesitant as well

He is the most important Allblack in the squad as it stands in my opinion.

Of course he is, and quite comfortably.

But that is not because he's the bestest greatest player ever in the whole wide world - and although he is certainly very influential, it's not entirely that either. It is largely because our other world class players: the front row, the locks, 12, wing, 15 - even 10 - all have world class back-ups (and we don't even now who our best loosies or centre are).

The reality is that while he is our most important player he's not as good as our last AB halfback, he's not as good as Du Pont so he's not in the world XV, and last time we played Ireland JGP outplayed him.

I think he is as good as Du Pont.

That lad hasnt even played NZ, SA or Australia in the Southern hemisphere yet in a career going back to 2017.

#Fraud

He is arguably not even the best 9 in France anymore.

France have depth at 9 like we have at 2 - you could equally say it's arguable whether Cam would make a French 23.

lol yes he would. You’re just buying into the French fluffing of both of those halfbacks.

Cam Roigard is better than DuPont and Lucu and he comfortably outplayed both of them in previous matchups. If it wasn’t for his serious injury in 2024 there would be no argument about who the best halfback in the world is.

There’s definitely areas of Roigard’s game that are simply unmatched globally and the scary thing is he’s still got plenty of growth in him.

3 halfbacks, Le Garrec is very good too.
I'm not saying I wouldn't pick him, but it's not like here where daylight is 2nd - there would need to be conversations, hence it is arguable.
Du Pont has had major injuries too. And Cam didn't outplay JGP in their last match-up.

Which areas of his game do you think are unmatched globally? I don't think he's got the best vision, best pass, best kick, best running game, lowest error rate, best ruck arrival rate, he's not the fastest, not the strongest.
He's fucking good, but I reckon the hyperbole is a bit out of hand when we're talking unmatched globally.

I'm sorry, Roigard is nowhere near Dupont's level.

Roigard arguably has a better eye for a gap but Dupont is better in every other aspect. He's the greatest halfback of all time. I really like Roigard and think he could at some point compete for best in the world but there's really no competition between his feats and Dupont's and any suggestion otherwise is obscene.

What are Du Pont's feats out of interest? Winning the 6 nations over and over?

@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2026:

I'm sorry, Roigard is nowhere near Dupont's level.

Roigard arguably has a better eye for a gap but Dupont is better in every other aspect. He's the greatest halfback of all time. I really like Roigard and think he could at some point compete for best in the world but there's really no competition between his feats and Dupont's and any suggestion otherwise is obscene.

Righto, the guy that’s afraid to venture out of Europe and the same guy who clearly got outplayed by Roigard in Paris the last time they met. Delusional thinking he’s the best ever.

@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2026:

What are Du Pont's feats out of interest? Winning the 6 nations over and over?

Have you not watched him play? I'm not going to list every defender beaten, every incredible kick, every impossible play he's made. He's Carter-like in his ability to pull off absolutely freakish acts.

I wasn't aware international trophies was the measure of a player. I forget how average the likes of Cullen and Lomu were.

Remind me how many major international tournament wins that Roigard has to his name, given that's apparently the bar?

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@Jet said in All Blacks 2026:

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@Canes4life said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@reprobate said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@Canes4life said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@reprobate said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@Canes4life said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@MiketheSnow said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@Bones said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

Rattle JGP, get him off his game and they're a bit of a nothing side now.

Same could be said for Roigard

He's easily our most important player and with a strike rate like the below he's going to break plenty of records.

I think he is our most important player, but only due to the lack of similar (in style and quality) options behind him.

Yeah but that’s also purely down to how dominant of a player he is. It’s pretty obvious that Roigard has become the dominant decision maker for the ABs.

Historically it’s been the 10 making most of the big decisions, but in recent years that has shifted to the 9, we’ve seen it with JGP at Ireland and Du Pont at France. 9s are having a lot more say on the game than they used to.

That's not some sort of historical trend mate, it's Sexton retiring and France playing a different style. There have always been some 9s who play that way (Weepu, Going, Bachop to an extent) and 10s who range from very dominant game controllers to just a link in the chain.

Roigard is dominant, and does a lot of the kicking, particularly exits. I would be mildly concerned with how that would go if Roigard gets injured.

The historical consensus in rugby has always been that the No. 10 is the primary game driver - the quarterback, so to speak, while the No. 9's role has largely been to link the forwards with the first five. What we're seeing now, though, is halfbacks taking control of matches more than ever before. One of the major benefits of that shift is that it allows you to blood a young No. 10 like Love much more comfortably, as the bulk of the decision-making no longer rests solely on his shoulders like it traditionally has.

Disagree with you on that one mate, I think it still is the consensus, and all we're seeing is 2 or 3 exceptional players causing a blip on the graph. For me it is kind of just as simple as you get a better view from 10, you're better placed to see things which trigger decisions - and that hasn't changed.

I think in the NH particularly the French , they use the halfback a lot more than us to put a bit of control on the tempo of the game .

Where as we tend to traditionally just want quick ball from the HB . Get in the tens hands ASAP .But maybe that’ part is starting to change a bit with Roigard.

I think this is because of rush defences , and 10s can get crowded more with them. I genuinely wonder at times how the likes of Merts, Carter etc would play against the rush defence we have these days. I do think it is changing how our insides play, and reason the box kicking form 9s is so much a thing.

That’s a good point , and roigard sniping probably makes the rush defence hesitant as well

He is the most important Allblack in the squad as it stands in my opinion.

Of course he is, and quite comfortably.

But that is not because he's the bestest greatest player ever in the whole wide world - and although he is certainly very influential, it's not entirely that either. It is largely because our other world class players: the front row, the locks, 12, wing, 15 - even 10 - all have world class back-ups (and we don't even now who our best loosies or centre are).

The reality is that while he is our most important player he's not as good as our last AB halfback, he's not as good as Du Pont so he's not in the world XV, and last time we played Ireland JGP outplayed him.

I think he is as good as Du Pont.

That lad hasnt even played NZ, SA or Australia in the Southern hemisphere yet in a career going back to 2017.

#Fraud

He is arguably not even the best 9 in France anymore.

France have depth at 9 like we have at 2 - you could equally say it's arguable whether Cam would make a French 23.

lol yes he would. You’re just buying into the French fluffing of both of those halfbacks.

Cam Roigard is better than DuPont and Lucu and he comfortably outplayed both of them in previous matchups. If it wasn’t for his serious injury in 2024 there would be no argument about who the best halfback in the world is.

There’s definitely areas of Roigard’s game that are simply unmatched globally and the scary thing is he’s still got plenty of growth in him.

3 halfbacks, Le Garrec is very good too.
I'm not saying I wouldn't pick him, but it's not like here where daylight is 2nd - there would need to be conversations, hence it is arguable.
Du Pont has had major injuries too. And Cam didn't outplay JGP in their last match-up.

Which areas of his game do you think are unmatched globally? I don't think he's got the best vision, best pass, best kick, best running game, lowest error rate, best ruck arrival rate, he's not the fastest, not the strongest.
He's fucking good, but I reckon the hyperbole is a bit out of hand when we're talking unmatched globally.

You clearly said above there’s an argument he wouldn’t make a France 23. To even suggest that tells me you severely underestimate the ability of Roigard. Right now Roigard is the best halfback in the world, followed closely by JGP.

He’s the best running and kicking halfback in the world. His strike rate and ability to score tries is unmatched and he’s arguably both the biggest and strongest halfback in world rugby. Add to the fact he’s just finished dominating Super Rugby, you tell me then who’s leading in all those areas?

@Mr-Fish What you are saying is he's been outstanding in Europe in conditions he is familiar with, and probably has a claim to be the best 9 Europe has produced. I would agree with that, but the GOAT? That's a stretch if he's only really played up there.

The measure of a player is that they play in the toughest conditions the sport has to offer and perform. Ireland's best beat us in a series at home, England's best in 03 put us away etc, the truly great players have come to NZ and SA and either won, or lifted their teams to come close. One of my problems with the French is they've put beating us at home in the too hard basket and don't even try anymore. Have they really not won here since 09? It makes it very difficult to judge their players and them as a side as they never try to overcome what is obviously one of rugby's toughest challenges.

@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2026:

@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2026:

What are Du Pont's feats out of interest? Winning the 6 nations over and over?

Have you not watched him play? I'm not going to list every defender beaten, every incredible kick, every impossible play he's made. He's Carter-like in his ability to pull off absolutely freakish acts.

I wasn't aware international trophies was the measure of a player. I forget how average the likes of Cullen and Lomu were.

Remind me how many major international tournament wins that Roigard has to his name, given that's apparently the bar?

Well not properly, because he never ventures down to Aus, NZ and South Africa. To be one of the top players in the world, you actually need to play around the world. Easy to look good on home soil. You can’t suggest a player is one of the best when he hasn’t proven himself in the three most successful rugby countries in the world in terms of WC wins.

Isn't Dupont's RWC knockout record 0 from 2 quarter finals?

If we based things on domestic rugby Richie Mo'unga would be the best 10 ever.....

@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2026:

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@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2026:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:

@Jet said in All Blacks 2026:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:

@Jet said in All Blacks 2026:

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@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2026:

@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks 2026:

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@Canes4life said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@reprobate said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@Canes4life said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@reprobate said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@Canes4life said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@MiketheSnow said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@Bones said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

Rattle JGP, get him off his game and they're a bit of a nothing side now.

Same could be said for Roigard

He's easily our most important player and with a strike rate like the below he's going to break plenty of records.

I think he is our most important player, but only due to the lack of similar (in style and quality) options behind him.

Yeah but that’s also purely down to how dominant of a player he is. It’s pretty obvious that Roigard has become the dominant decision maker for the ABs.

Historically it’s been the 10 making most of the big decisions, but in recent years that has shifted to the 9, we’ve seen it with JGP at Ireland and Du Pont at France. 9s are having a lot more say on the game than they used to.

That's not some sort of historical trend mate, it's Sexton retiring and France playing a different style. There have always been some 9s who play that way (Weepu, Going, Bachop to an extent) and 10s who range from very dominant game controllers to just a link in the chain.

Roigard is dominant, and does a lot of the kicking, particularly exits. I would be mildly concerned with how that would go if Roigard gets injured.

The historical consensus in rugby has always been that the No. 10 is the primary game driver - the quarterback, so to speak, while the No. 9's role has largely been to link the forwards with the first five. What we're seeing now, though, is halfbacks taking control of matches more than ever before. One of the major benefits of that shift is that it allows you to blood a young No. 10 like Love much more comfortably, as the bulk of the decision-making no longer rests solely on his shoulders like it traditionally has.

Disagree with you on that one mate, I think it still is the consensus, and all we're seeing is 2 or 3 exceptional players causing a blip on the graph. For me it is kind of just as simple as you get a better view from 10, you're better placed to see things which trigger decisions - and that hasn't changed.

I think in the NH particularly the French , they use the halfback a lot more than us to put a bit of control on the tempo of the game .

Where as we tend to traditionally just want quick ball from the HB . Get in the tens hands ASAP .But maybe that’ part is starting to change a bit with Roigard.

I think this is because of rush defences , and 10s can get crowded more with them. I genuinely wonder at times how the likes of Merts, Carter etc would play against the rush defence we have these days. I do think it is changing how our insides play, and reason the box kicking form 9s is so much a thing.

That’s a good point , and roigard sniping probably makes the rush defence hesitant as well

He is the most important Allblack in the squad as it stands in my opinion.

Of course he is, and quite comfortably.

But that is not because he's the bestest greatest player ever in the whole wide world - and although he is certainly very influential, it's not entirely that either. It is largely because our other world class players: the front row, the locks, 12, wing, 15 - even 10 - all have world class back-ups (and we don't even now who our best loosies or centre are).

The reality is that while he is our most important player he's not as good as our last AB halfback, he's not as good as Du Pont so he's not in the world XV, and last time we played Ireland JGP outplayed him.

I think he is as good as Du Pont.

That lad hasnt even played NZ, SA or Australia in the Southern hemisphere yet in a career going back to 2017.

#Fraud

He is arguably not even the best 9 in France anymore.

France have depth at 9 like we have at 2 - you could equally say it's arguable whether Cam would make a French 23.

lol yes he would. You’re just buying into the French fluffing of both of those halfbacks.

Cam Roigard is better than DuPont and Lucu and he comfortably outplayed both of them in previous matchups. If it wasn’t for his serious injury in 2024 there would be no argument about who the best halfback in the world is.

There’s definitely areas of Roigard’s game that are simply unmatched globally and the scary thing is he’s still got plenty of growth in him.

3 halfbacks, Le Garrec is very good too.
I'm not saying I wouldn't pick him, but it's not like here where daylight is 2nd - there would need to be conversations, hence it is arguable.
Du Pont has had major injuries too. And Cam didn't outplay JGP in their last match-up.

Which areas of his game do you think are unmatched globally? I don't think he's got the best vision, best pass, best kick, best running game, lowest error rate, best ruck arrival rate, he's not the fastest, not the strongest.
He's fucking good, but I reckon the hyperbole is a bit out of hand when we're talking unmatched globally.

You clearly said above there’s an argument he wouldn’t make a France 23. To even suggest that tells me you severely underestimate the ability of Roigard. Right now Roigard is the best halfback in the world, followed closely by JGP.

He’s the best running and kicking halfback in the world. His strike rate and ability to score tries is unmatched and he’s arguably both the biggest and strongest halfback in world rugby. Add to the fact he’s just finished dominating Super Rugby, you tell me then who’s leading in all those areas?

His kicking is not as good as JGP or Du Pont for a start, and you've already said you don't watch Du Pont play, so I don't think it's me who is severely underestimating someone.

@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2026:

Isn't Dupont's RWC knockout record 0 from 2 quarter finals?

If we based things on domestic rugby Richie Mo'unga would be the best 10 ever.....

Sorry, didn't you bring up using trophies as the measure of a player's ability? How many World Cups has Roigard one? How many World Cup knockout games has he even played in?

I don't think we should be using that as the yardstick at all - it should be how they play.

I really struggle to see how anyone can watch Dupont's magic and say 'Oh he couldn't do that in New Zealand'. I'd argue playing away from home in a Top 14 match is probably more intimidating than playing almost anywhere else in the world.

Again, Roigard is a very good player. But Dupont has better long and short kicking games, a more accurate pass and is a better playmaker. Also @canes4life, you can't seriously say Roigard is a more physical halfback than Dupont - that absolutely screams recency and national bias. Highlights like the below are a dime a dozen for Dupont - and I don't know why him playing in France or in South Africa would impact his strength on the ball.

@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2026:

He's the greatest halfback of all time.

Why are you bringing up Aaron Smith?

@booboo said in All Blacks 2026:

@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2026:

He's the greatest halfback of all time.

Why are you bringing up Aaron Smith?

Best passing halfback of all time, but Dupont is the full package.

@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2026:

@booboo said in All Blacks 2026:

@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2026:

He's the greatest halfback of all time.

Why are you bringing up Aaron Smith?

Best passing halfback of all time, but Dupont is the full package.

Let's just disagree.

I get Parisse vibes with du Pont, I.e., it's cool to pick him because he's not a NZrr.

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:

@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2026:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:

@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2026:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:

@Jet said in All Blacks 2026:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:

@Jet said in All Blacks 2026:

@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks 2026:

@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2026:

@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks 2026:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:

@Canes4life said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@reprobate said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@Canes4life said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@reprobate said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@Canes4life said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@MiketheSnow said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@Bones said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

Rattle JGP, get him off his game and they're a bit of a nothing side now.

Same could be said for Roigard

He's easily our most important player and with a strike rate like the below he's going to break plenty of records.

I think he is our most important player, but only due to the lack of similar (in style and quality) options behind him.

Yeah but that’s also purely down to how dominant of a player he is. It’s pretty obvious that Roigard has become the dominant decision maker for the ABs.

Historically it’s been the 10 making most of the big decisions, but in recent years that has shifted to the 9, we’ve seen it with JGP at Ireland and Du Pont at France. 9s are having a lot more say on the game than they used to.

That's not some sort of historical trend mate, it's Sexton retiring and France playing a different style. There have always been some 9s who play that way (Weepu, Going, Bachop to an extent) and 10s who range from very dominant game controllers to just a link in the chain.

Roigard is dominant, and does a lot of the kicking, particularly exits. I would be mildly concerned with how that would go if Roigard gets injured.

The historical consensus in rugby has always been that the No. 10 is the primary game driver - the quarterback, so to speak, while the No. 9's role has largely been to link the forwards with the first five. What we're seeing now, though, is halfbacks taking control of matches more than ever before. One of the major benefits of that shift is that it allows you to blood a young No. 10 like Love much more comfortably, as the bulk of the decision-making no longer rests solely on his shoulders like it traditionally has.

Disagree with you on that one mate, I think it still is the consensus, and all we're seeing is 2 or 3 exceptional players causing a blip on the graph. For me it is kind of just as simple as you get a better view from 10, you're better placed to see things which trigger decisions - and that hasn't changed.

I think in the NH particularly the French , they use the halfback a lot more than us to put a bit of control on the tempo of the game .

Where as we tend to traditionally just want quick ball from the HB . Get in the tens hands ASAP .But maybe that’ part is starting to change a bit with Roigard.

I think this is because of rush defences , and 10s can get crowded more with them. I genuinely wonder at times how the likes of Merts, Carter etc would play against the rush defence we have these days. I do think it is changing how our insides play, and reason the box kicking form 9s is so much a thing.

That’s a good point , and roigard sniping probably makes the rush defence hesitant as well

He is the most important Allblack in the squad as it stands in my opinion.

Of course he is, and quite comfortably.

But that is not because he's the bestest greatest player ever in the whole wide world - and although he is certainly very influential, it's not entirely that either. It is largely because our other world class players: the front row, the locks, 12, wing, 15 - even 10 - all have world class back-ups (and we don't even now who our best loosies or centre are).

The reality is that while he is our most important player he's not as good as our last AB halfback, he's not as good as Du Pont so he's not in the world XV, and last time we played Ireland JGP outplayed him.

I think he is as good as Du Pont.

That lad hasnt even played NZ, SA or Australia in the Southern hemisphere yet in a career going back to 2017.

#Fraud

He is arguably not even the best 9 in France anymore.

France have depth at 9 like we have at 2 - you could equally say it's arguable whether Cam would make a French 23.

lol yes he would. You’re just buying into the French fluffing of both of those halfbacks.

Cam Roigard is better than DuPont and Lucu and he comfortably outplayed both of them in previous matchups. If it wasn’t for his serious injury in 2024 there would be no argument about who the best halfback in the world is.

There’s definitely areas of Roigard’s game that are simply unmatched globally and the scary thing is he’s still got plenty of growth in him.

3 halfbacks, Le Garrec is very good too.
I'm not saying I wouldn't pick him, but it's not like here where daylight is 2nd - there would need to be conversations, hence it is arguable.
Du Pont has had major injuries too. And Cam didn't outplay JGP in their last match-up.

Which areas of his game do you think are unmatched globally? I don't think he's got the best vision, best pass, best kick, best running game, lowest error rate, best ruck arrival rate, he's not the fastest, not the strongest.
He's fucking good, but I reckon the hyperbole is a bit out of hand when we're talking unmatched globally.

You clearly said above there’s an argument he wouldn’t make a France 23. To even suggest that tells me you severely underestimate the ability of Roigard. Right now Roigard is the best halfback in the world, followed closely by JGP.

He’s the best running and kicking halfback in the world. His strike rate and ability to score tries is unmatched and he’s arguably both the biggest and strongest halfback in world rugby. Add to the fact he’s just finished dominating Super Rugby, you tell me then who’s leading in all those areas?

His kicking is not as good as JGP or Du Pont for a start, and you've already said you don't watch Du Pont play, so I don't think it's me who is severely underestimating someone.

Roigard’s kicking game is one of his strengths. The height and length he gets in his kicks is why the ABs are able to provide so much defensive pressure. His ability to also put the ball behind to build pressure is exceptional.

I’ve seen Du Pont play plenty of times. He’s a superb player but it’s easy to look so good when you never face the toughest demands that rugby has to offer. Until he does that, he’s nothing more than a good European player to me.

@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2026:

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@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2026:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:

@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2026:

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@Jet said in All Blacks 2026:

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@Jet said in All Blacks 2026:

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@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2026:

@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks 2026:

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@Canes4life said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@reprobate said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@Canes4life said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@reprobate said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@Canes4life said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@MiketheSnow said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@Bones said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

Rattle JGP, get him off his game and they're a bit of a nothing side now.

Same could be said for Roigard

He's easily our most important player and with a strike rate like the below he's going to break plenty of records.

I think he is our most important player, but only due to the lack of similar (in style and quality) options behind him.

Yeah but that’s also purely down to how dominant of a player he is. It’s pretty obvious that Roigard has become the dominant decision maker for the ABs.

Historically it’s been the 10 making most of the big decisions, but in recent years that has shifted to the 9, we’ve seen it with JGP at Ireland and Du Pont at France. 9s are having a lot more say on the game than they used to.

That's not some sort of historical trend mate, it's Sexton retiring and France playing a different style. There have always been some 9s who play that way (Weepu, Going, Bachop to an extent) and 10s who range from very dominant game controllers to just a link in the chain.

Roigard is dominant, and does a lot of the kicking, particularly exits. I would be mildly concerned with how that would go if Roigard gets injured.

The historical consensus in rugby has always been that the No. 10 is the primary game driver - the quarterback, so to speak, while the No. 9's role has largely been to link the forwards with the first five. What we're seeing now, though, is halfbacks taking control of matches more than ever before. One of the major benefits of that shift is that it allows you to blood a young No. 10 like Love much more comfortably, as the bulk of the decision-making no longer rests solely on his shoulders like it traditionally has.

Disagree with you on that one mate, I think it still is the consensus, and all we're seeing is 2 or 3 exceptional players causing a blip on the graph. For me it is kind of just as simple as you get a better view from 10, you're better placed to see things which trigger decisions - and that hasn't changed.

I think in the NH particularly the French , they use the halfback a lot more than us to put a bit of control on the tempo of the game .

Where as we tend to traditionally just want quick ball from the HB . Get in the tens hands ASAP .But maybe that’ part is starting to change a bit with Roigard.

I think this is because of rush defences , and 10s can get crowded more with them. I genuinely wonder at times how the likes of Merts, Carter etc would play against the rush defence we have these days. I do think it is changing how our insides play, and reason the box kicking form 9s is so much a thing.

That’s a good point , and roigard sniping probably makes the rush defence hesitant as well

He is the most important Allblack in the squad as it stands in my opinion.

Of course he is, and quite comfortably.

But that is not because he's the bestest greatest player ever in the whole wide world - and although he is certainly very influential, it's not entirely that either. It is largely because our other world class players: the front row, the locks, 12, wing, 15 - even 10 - all have world class back-ups (and we don't even now who our best loosies or centre are).

The reality is that while he is our most important player he's not as good as our last AB halfback, he's not as good as Du Pont so he's not in the world XV, and last time we played Ireland JGP outplayed him.

I think he is as good as Du Pont.

That lad hasnt even played NZ, SA or Australia in the Southern hemisphere yet in a career going back to 2017.

#Fraud

He is arguably not even the best 9 in France anymore.

France have depth at 9 like we have at 2 - you could equally say it's arguable whether Cam would make a French 23.

lol yes he would. You’re just buying into the French fluffing of both of those halfbacks.

Cam Roigard is better than DuPont and Lucu and he comfortably outplayed both of them in previous matchups. If it wasn’t for his serious injury in 2024 there would be no argument about who the best halfback in the world is.

There’s definitely areas of Roigard’s game that are simply unmatched globally and the scary thing is he’s still got plenty of growth in him.

3 halfbacks, Le Garrec is very good too.
I'm not saying I wouldn't pick him, but it's not like here where daylight is 2nd - there would need to be conversations, hence it is arguable.
Du Pont has had major injuries too. And Cam didn't outplay JGP in their last match-up.

Which areas of his game do you think are unmatched globally? I don't think he's got the best vision, best pass, best kick, best running game, lowest error rate, best ruck arrival rate, he's not the fastest, not the strongest.
He's fucking good, but I reckon the hyperbole is a bit out of hand when we're talking unmatched globally.

You clearly said above there’s an argument he wouldn’t make a France 23. To even suggest that tells me you severely underestimate the ability of Roigard. Right now Roigard is the best halfback in the world, followed closely by JGP.

He’s the best running and kicking halfback in the world. His strike rate and ability to score tries is unmatched and he’s arguably both the biggest and strongest halfback in world rugby. Add to the fact he’s just finished dominating Super Rugby, you tell me then who’s leading in all those areas?

His kicking is not as good as JGP or Du Pont for a start, and you've already said you don't watch Du Pont play, so I don't think it's me who is severely underestimating someone.

Roigard’s kicking game is one of his strengths. The height and length he gets in his kicks is why the ABs are able to provide so much defensive pressure.

I’ve seen Du Pont play plenty of times. He’s an exceptional player but it’s easy to look so good when you never face the toughest demands that rugby has to offer. Until he does that, he’s nothing more than a good European player to me.

How many games has Roigard played in South Africa? How many World Cup knockout matches has he featured in? Even by your own metrics, Roigard doesn't measure up...

@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2026:

@reprobate I don't think the reasons really matter, NZ win about 85% of test matches at home, SA around 75%. No other teams come close to those records, if Du Pont has never even played a test against them in their own back yard in 9 years then he hasn't fully tested his abilities in the toughest conditions. It's like a batsmen in cricket just playing at home in favourable conditions while avoiding India and Aus, then people claim they are the best in the world. His win record with France has to have an asterisk next to it as well given he avoids their hardest games. I know he's a class player but people's reputations get damaged when they shit the bed in NZ and SA, he's never had to go through that.
Do they really? Maybe in our eyes but in my experience NH players are still revered for what they do up there despite what they may have failed to do down under. I honestly don’t think NH fans care nearly as much about what their players and teams do down our end of the world than what we do about our teams and players up there.

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Rattle JGP, get him off his game and they're a bit of a nothing side now.

Same could be said for Roigard

He's easily our most important player and with a strike rate like the below he's going to break plenty of records.

I think he is our most important player, but only due to the lack of similar (in style and quality) options behind him.

Yeah but that’s also purely down to how dominant of a player he is. It’s pretty obvious that Roigard has become the dominant decision maker for the ABs.

Historically it’s been the 10 making most of the big decisions, but in recent years that has shifted to the 9, we’ve seen it with JGP at Ireland and Du Pont at France. 9s are having a lot more say on the game than they used to.

That's not some sort of historical trend mate, it's Sexton retiring and France playing a different style. There have always been some 9s who play that way (Weepu, Going, Bachop to an extent) and 10s who range from very dominant game controllers to just a link in the chain.

Roigard is dominant, and does a lot of the kicking, particularly exits. I would be mildly concerned with how that would go if Roigard gets injured.

The historical consensus in rugby has always been that the No. 10 is the primary game driver - the quarterback, so to speak, while the No. 9's role has largely been to link the forwards with the first five. What we're seeing now, though, is halfbacks taking control of matches more than ever before. One of the major benefits of that shift is that it allows you to blood a young No. 10 like Love much more comfortably, as the bulk of the decision-making no longer rests solely on his shoulders like it traditionally has.

Disagree with you on that one mate, I think it still is the consensus, and all we're seeing is 2 or 3 exceptional players causing a blip on the graph. For me it is kind of just as simple as you get a better view from 10, you're better placed to see things which trigger decisions - and that hasn't changed.

I think in the NH particularly the French , they use the halfback a lot more than us to put a bit of control on the tempo of the game .

Where as we tend to traditionally just want quick ball from the HB . Get in the tens hands ASAP .But maybe that’ part is starting to change a bit with Roigard.

I think this is because of rush defences , and 10s can get crowded more with them. I genuinely wonder at times how the likes of Merts, Carter etc would play against the rush defence we have these days. I do think it is changing how our insides play, and reason the box kicking form 9s is so much a thing.

That’s a good point , and roigard sniping probably makes the rush defence hesitant as well

He is the most important Allblack in the squad as it stands in my opinion.

Of course he is, and quite comfortably.

But that is not because he's the bestest greatest player ever in the whole wide world - and although he is certainly very influential, it's not entirely that either. It is largely because our other world class players: the front row, the locks, 12, wing, 15 - even 10 - all have world class back-ups (and we don't even now who our best loosies or centre are).

The reality is that while he is our most important player he's not as good as our last AB halfback, he's not as good as Du Pont so he's not in the world XV, and last time we played Ireland JGP outplayed him.

I think he is as good as Du Pont.

That lad hasnt even played NZ, SA or Australia in the Southern hemisphere yet in a career going back to 2017.

#Fraud

He is arguably not even the best 9 in France anymore.

France have depth at 9 like we have at 2 - you could equally say it's arguable whether Cam would make a French 23.

lol yes he would. You’re just buying into the French fluffing of both of those halfbacks.

Cam Roigard is better than DuPont and Lucu and he comfortably outplayed both of them in previous matchups. If it wasn’t for his serious injury in 2024 there would be no argument about who the best halfback in the world is.

There’s definitely areas of Roigard’s game that are simply unmatched globally and the scary thing is he’s still got plenty of growth in him.

3 halfbacks, Le Garrec is very good too.
I'm not saying I wouldn't pick him, but it's not like here where daylight is 2nd - there would need to be conversations, hence it is arguable.
Du Pont has had major injuries too. And Cam didn't outplay JGP in their last match-up.

Which areas of his game do you think are unmatched globally? I don't think he's got the best vision, best pass, best kick, best running game, lowest error rate, best ruck arrival rate, he's not the fastest, not the strongest.
He's fucking good, but I reckon the hyperbole is a bit out of hand when we're talking unmatched globally.

You clearly said above there’s an argument he wouldn’t make a France 23. To even suggest that tells me you severely underestimate the ability of Roigard. Right now Roigard is the best halfback in the world, followed closely by JGP.

He’s the best running and kicking halfback in the world. His strike rate and ability to score tries is unmatched and he’s arguably both the biggest and strongest halfback in world rugby. Add to the fact he’s just finished dominating Super Rugby, you tell me then who’s leading in all those areas?

His kicking is not as good as JGP or Du Pont for a start, and you've already said you don't watch Du Pont play, so I don't think it's me who is severely underestimating someone.

Roigard’s kicking game is one of his strengths. The height and length he gets in his kicks is why the ABs are able to provide so much defensive pressure.

I’ve seen Du Pont play plenty of times. He’s an exceptional player but it’s easy to look so good when you never face the toughest demands that rugby has to offer. Until he does that, he’s nothing more than a good European player to me.

How many games has Roigard played in South Africa? How many World Cup knockout matches has he featured in? Even by your own metrics, Roigard doesn't measure up...

I have no problem with you thinking Dupont is the better player

To say that he's on a totally other level to Roigard i disagree with

It certainly didnt look that way when they matched up on End Of Year Tour 2024.

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Rattle JGP, get him off his game and they're a bit of a nothing side now.

Same could be said for Roigard

He's easily our most important player and with a strike rate like the below he's going to break plenty of records.

I think he is our most important player, but only due to the lack of similar (in style and quality) options behind him.

Yeah but that’s also purely down to how dominant of a player he is. It’s pretty obvious that Roigard has become the dominant decision maker for the ABs.

Historically it’s been the 10 making most of the big decisions, but in recent years that has shifted to the 9, we’ve seen it with JGP at Ireland and Du Pont at France. 9s are having a lot more say on the game than they used to.

That's not some sort of historical trend mate, it's Sexton retiring and France playing a different style. There have always been some 9s who play that way (Weepu, Going, Bachop to an extent) and 10s who range from very dominant game controllers to just a link in the chain.

Roigard is dominant, and does a lot of the kicking, particularly exits. I would be mildly concerned with how that would go if Roigard gets injured.

The historical consensus in rugby has always been that the No. 10 is the primary game driver - the quarterback, so to speak, while the No. 9's role has largely been to link the forwards with the first five. What we're seeing now, though, is halfbacks taking control of matches more than ever before. One of the major benefits of that shift is that it allows you to blood a young No. 10 like Love much more comfortably, as the bulk of the decision-making no longer rests solely on his shoulders like it traditionally has.

Disagree with you on that one mate, I think it still is the consensus, and all we're seeing is 2 or 3 exceptional players causing a blip on the graph. For me it is kind of just as simple as you get a better view from 10, you're better placed to see things which trigger decisions - and that hasn't changed.

I think in the NH particularly the French , they use the halfback a lot more than us to put a bit of control on the tempo of the game .

Where as we tend to traditionally just want quick ball from the HB . Get in the tens hands ASAP .But maybe that’ part is starting to change a bit with Roigard.

I think this is because of rush defences , and 10s can get crowded more with them. I genuinely wonder at times how the likes of Merts, Carter etc would play against the rush defence we have these days. I do think it is changing how our insides play, and reason the box kicking form 9s is so much a thing.

That’s a good point , and roigard sniping probably makes the rush defence hesitant as well

He is the most important Allblack in the squad as it stands in my opinion.

Of course he is, and quite comfortably.

But that is not because he's the bestest greatest player ever in the whole wide world - and although he is certainly very influential, it's not entirely that either. It is largely because our other world class players: the front row, the locks, 12, wing, 15 - even 10 - all have world class back-ups (and we don't even now who our best loosies or centre are).

The reality is that while he is our most important player he's not as good as our last AB halfback, he's not as good as Du Pont so he's not in the world XV, and last time we played Ireland JGP outplayed him.

I think he is as good as Du Pont.

That lad hasnt even played NZ, SA or Australia in the Southern hemisphere yet in a career going back to 2017.

#Fraud

He is arguably not even the best 9 in France anymore.

France have depth at 9 like we have at 2 - you could equally say it's arguable whether Cam would make a French 23.

lol yes he would. You’re just buying into the French fluffing of both of those halfbacks.

Cam Roigard is better than DuPont and Lucu and he comfortably outplayed both of them in previous matchups. If it wasn’t for his serious injury in 2024 there would be no argument about who the best halfback in the world is.

There’s definitely areas of Roigard’s game that are simply unmatched globally and the scary thing is he’s still got plenty of growth in him.

3 halfbacks, Le Garrec is very good too.
I'm not saying I wouldn't pick him, but it's not like here where daylight is 2nd - there would need to be conversations, hence it is arguable.
Du Pont has had major injuries too. And Cam didn't outplay JGP in their last match-up.

Which areas of his game do you think are unmatched globally? I don't think he's got the best vision, best pass, best kick, best running game, lowest error rate, best ruck arrival rate, he's not the fastest, not the strongest.
He's fucking good, but I reckon the hyperbole is a bit out of hand when we're talking unmatched globally.

You clearly said above there’s an argument he wouldn’t make a France 23. To even suggest that tells me you severely underestimate the ability of Roigard. Right now Roigard is the best halfback in the world, followed closely by JGP.

He’s the best running and kicking halfback in the world. His strike rate and ability to score tries is unmatched and he’s arguably both the biggest and strongest halfback in world rugby. Add to the fact he’s just finished dominating Super Rugby, you tell me then who’s leading in all those areas?

His kicking is not as good as JGP or Du Pont for a start, and you've already said you don't watch Du Pont play, so I don't think it's me who is severely underestimating someone.

Roigard’s kicking game is one of his strengths. The height and length he gets in his kicks is why the ABs are able to provide so much defensive pressure. His ability to also put the ball behind to build pressure is exceptional.

I’ve seen Du Pont play plenty of times. He’s a superb player but it’s easy to look so good when you never face the toughest demands that rugby has to offer. Until he does that, he’s nothing more than a good European player to me.

Kicking is a strength of his, and he's certainly the best kicking 9 in NZ. But also not as good as JGP or Du Pont, so hardly unmatched globally.

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Rattle JGP, get him off his game and they're a bit of a nothing side now.

Same could be said for Roigard

He's easily our most important player and with a strike rate like the below he's going to break plenty of records.

I think he is our most important player, but only due to the lack of similar (in style and quality) options behind him.

Yeah but that’s also purely down to how dominant of a player he is. It’s pretty obvious that Roigard has become the dominant decision maker for the ABs.

Historically it’s been the 10 making most of the big decisions, but in recent years that has shifted to the 9, we’ve seen it with JGP at Ireland and Du Pont at France. 9s are having a lot more say on the game than they used to.

That's not some sort of historical trend mate, it's Sexton retiring and France playing a different style. There have always been some 9s who play that way (Weepu, Going, Bachop to an extent) and 10s who range from very dominant game controllers to just a link in the chain.

Roigard is dominant, and does a lot of the kicking, particularly exits. I would be mildly concerned with how that would go if Roigard gets injured.

The historical consensus in rugby has always been that the No. 10 is the primary game driver - the quarterback, so to speak, while the No. 9's role has largely been to link the forwards with the first five. What we're seeing now, though, is halfbacks taking control of matches more than ever before. One of the major benefits of that shift is that it allows you to blood a young No. 10 like Love much more comfortably, as the bulk of the decision-making no longer rests solely on his shoulders like it traditionally has.

Disagree with you on that one mate, I think it still is the consensus, and all we're seeing is 2 or 3 exceptional players causing a blip on the graph. For me it is kind of just as simple as you get a better view from 10, you're better placed to see things which trigger decisions - and that hasn't changed.

I think in the NH particularly the French , they use the halfback a lot more than us to put a bit of control on the tempo of the game .

Where as we tend to traditionally just want quick ball from the HB . Get in the tens hands ASAP .But maybe that’ part is starting to change a bit with Roigard.

I think this is because of rush defences , and 10s can get crowded more with them. I genuinely wonder at times how the likes of Merts, Carter etc would play against the rush defence we have these days. I do think it is changing how our insides play, and reason the box kicking form 9s is so much a thing.

That’s a good point , and roigard sniping probably makes the rush defence hesitant as well

He is the most important Allblack in the squad as it stands in my opinion.

Of course he is, and quite comfortably.

But that is not because he's the bestest greatest player ever in the whole wide world - and although he is certainly very influential, it's not entirely that either. It is largely because our other world class players: the front row, the locks, 12, wing, 15 - even 10 - all have world class back-ups (and we don't even now who our best loosies or centre are).

The reality is that while he is our most important player he's not as good as our last AB halfback, he's not as good as Du Pont so he's not in the world XV, and last time we played Ireland JGP outplayed him.

I think he is as good as Du Pont.

That lad hasnt even played NZ, SA or Australia in the Southern hemisphere yet in a career going back to 2017.

#Fraud

He is arguably not even the best 9 in France anymore.

France have depth at 9 like we have at 2 - you could equally say it's arguable whether Cam would make a French 23.

lol yes he would. You’re just buying into the French fluffing of both of those halfbacks.

Cam Roigard is better than DuPont and Lucu and he comfortably outplayed both of them in previous matchups. If it wasn’t for his serious injury in 2024 there would be no argument about who the best halfback in the world is.

There’s definitely areas of Roigard’s game that are simply unmatched globally and the scary thing is he’s still got plenty of growth in him.

3 halfbacks, Le Garrec is very good too.
I'm not saying I wouldn't pick him, but it's not like here where daylight is 2nd - there would need to be conversations, hence it is arguable.
Du Pont has had major injuries too. And Cam didn't outplay JGP in their last match-up.

Which areas of his game do you think are unmatched globally? I don't think he's got the best vision, best pass, best kick, best running game, lowest error rate, best ruck arrival rate, he's not the fastest, not the strongest.
He's fucking good, but I reckon the hyperbole is a bit out of hand when we're talking unmatched globally.

You clearly said above there’s an argument he wouldn’t make a France 23. To even suggest that tells me you severely underestimate the ability of Roigard. Right now Roigard is the best halfback in the world, followed closely by JGP.

He’s the best running and kicking halfback in the world. His strike rate and ability to score tries is unmatched and he’s arguably both the biggest and strongest halfback in world rugby. Add to the fact he’s just finished dominating Super Rugby, you tell me then who’s leading in all those areas?

His kicking is not as good as JGP or Du Pont for a start, and you've already said you don't watch Du Pont play, so I don't think it's me who is severely underestimating someone.

Roigard’s kicking game is one of his strengths. The height and length he gets in his kicks is why the ABs are able to provide so much defensive pressure.

I’ve seen Du Pont play plenty of times. He’s an exceptional player but it’s easy to look so good when you never face the toughest demands that rugby has to offer. Until he does that, he’s nothing more than a good European player to me.

How many games has Roigard played in South Africa? How many World Cup knockout matches has he featured in? Even by your own metrics, Roigard doesn't measure up...

I have no problem with you thinking Dupont is the better player

To say that he's on a totally other level to Roigard i disagree with

It certainly didnt look that way when they matched up on End Of Year Tour 2024.

Roigard played better than Dupont in that match - don't think anyone would fight you too hard on that point. That was also only Dupont's fifth game back from after spending four months playing Sevens (where he helped France win a gold medal at the Olympics). Regardless, I don't think one head to head match up is a key factor in determining the better player.

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Rattle JGP, get him off his game and they're a bit of a nothing side now.

Same could be said for Roigard

He's easily our most important player and with a strike rate like the below he's going to break plenty of records.

I think he is our most important player, but only due to the lack of similar (in style and quality) options behind him.

Yeah but that’s also purely down to how dominant of a player he is. It’s pretty obvious that Roigard has become the dominant decision maker for the ABs.

Historically it’s been the 10 making most of the big decisions, but in recent years that has shifted to the 9, we’ve seen it with JGP at Ireland and Du Pont at France. 9s are having a lot more say on the game than they used to.

That's not some sort of historical trend mate, it's Sexton retiring and France playing a different style. There have always been some 9s who play that way (Weepu, Going, Bachop to an extent) and 10s who range from very dominant game controllers to just a link in the chain.

Roigard is dominant, and does a lot of the kicking, particularly exits. I would be mildly concerned with how that would go if Roigard gets injured.

The historical consensus in rugby has always been that the No. 10 is the primary game driver - the quarterback, so to speak, while the No. 9's role has largely been to link the forwards with the first five. What we're seeing now, though, is halfbacks taking control of matches more than ever before. One of the major benefits of that shift is that it allows you to blood a young No. 10 like Love much more comfortably, as the bulk of the decision-making no longer rests solely on his shoulders like it traditionally has.

Disagree with you on that one mate, I think it still is the consensus, and all we're seeing is 2 or 3 exceptional players causing a blip on the graph. For me it is kind of just as simple as you get a better view from 10, you're better placed to see things which trigger decisions - and that hasn't changed.

I think in the NH particularly the French , they use the halfback a lot more than us to put a bit of control on the tempo of the game .

Where as we tend to traditionally just want quick ball from the HB . Get in the tens hands ASAP .But maybe that’ part is starting to change a bit with Roigard.

I think this is because of rush defences , and 10s can get crowded more with them. I genuinely wonder at times how the likes of Merts, Carter etc would play against the rush defence we have these days. I do think it is changing how our insides play, and reason the box kicking form 9s is so much a thing.

That’s a good point , and roigard sniping probably makes the rush defence hesitant as well

He is the most important Allblack in the squad as it stands in my opinion.

Of course he is, and quite comfortably.

But that is not because he's the bestest greatest player ever in the whole wide world - and although he is certainly very influential, it's not entirely that either. It is largely because our other world class players: the front row, the locks, 12, wing, 15 - even 10 - all have world class back-ups (and we don't even now who our best loosies or centre are).

The reality is that while he is our most important player he's not as good as our last AB halfback, he's not as good as Du Pont so he's not in the world XV, and last time we played Ireland JGP outplayed him.

I think he is as good as Du Pont.

That lad hasnt even played NZ, SA or Australia in the Southern hemisphere yet in a career going back to 2017.

#Fraud

He is arguably not even the best 9 in France anymore.

France have depth at 9 like we have at 2 - you could equally say it's arguable whether Cam would make a French 23.

lol yes he would. You’re just buying into the French fluffing of both of those halfbacks.

Cam Roigard is better than DuPont and Lucu and he comfortably outplayed both of them in previous matchups. If it wasn’t for his serious injury in 2024 there would be no argument about who the best halfback in the world is.

There’s definitely areas of Roigard’s game that are simply unmatched globally and the scary thing is he’s still got plenty of growth in him.

3 halfbacks, Le Garrec is very good too.
I'm not saying I wouldn't pick him, but it's not like here where daylight is 2nd - there would need to be conversations, hence it is arguable.
Du Pont has had major injuries too. And Cam didn't outplay JGP in their last match-up.

Which areas of his game do you think are unmatched globally? I don't think he's got the best vision, best pass, best kick, best running game, lowest error rate, best ruck arrival rate, he's not the fastest, not the strongest.
He's fucking good, but I reckon the hyperbole is a bit out of hand when we're talking unmatched globally.

You clearly said above there’s an argument he wouldn’t make a France 23. To even suggest that tells me you severely underestimate the ability of Roigard. Right now Roigard is the best halfback in the world, followed closely by JGP.

He’s the best running and kicking halfback in the world. His strike rate and ability to score tries is unmatched and he’s arguably both the biggest and strongest halfback in world rugby. Add to the fact he’s just finished dominating Super Rugby, you tell me then who’s leading in all those areas?

His kicking is not as good as JGP or Du Pont for a start, and you've already said you don't watch Du Pont play, so I don't think it's me who is severely underestimating someone.

Roigard’s kicking game is one of his strengths. The height and length he gets in his kicks is why the ABs are able to provide so much defensive pressure.

I’ve seen Du Pont play plenty of times. He’s an exceptional player but it’s easy to look so good when you never face the toughest demands that rugby has to offer. Until he does that, he’s nothing more than a good European player to me.

How many games has Roigard played in South Africa? How many World Cup knockout matches has he featured in? Even by your own metrics, Roigard doesn't measure up...

Roigard is four years younger than DuPont and he’ll play in South Africa first. He doesn’t shy away from the toughest challenges and he would have also played knockout football if it wasn’t for our incompetent coach… even you can probably admit that.

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Rattle JGP, get him off his game and they're a bit of a nothing side now.

Same could be said for Roigard

He's easily our most important player and with a strike rate like the below he's going to break plenty of records.

I think he is our most important player, but only due to the lack of similar (in style and quality) options behind him.

Yeah but that’s also purely down to how dominant of a player he is. It’s pretty obvious that Roigard has become the dominant decision maker for the ABs.

Historically it’s been the 10 making most of the big decisions, but in recent years that has shifted to the 9, we’ve seen it with JGP at Ireland and Du Pont at France. 9s are having a lot more say on the game than they used to.

That's not some sort of historical trend mate, it's Sexton retiring and France playing a different style. There have always been some 9s who play that way (Weepu, Going, Bachop to an extent) and 10s who range from very dominant game controllers to just a link in the chain.

Roigard is dominant, and does a lot of the kicking, particularly exits. I would be mildly concerned with how that would go if Roigard gets injured.

The historical consensus in rugby has always been that the No. 10 is the primary game driver - the quarterback, so to speak, while the No. 9's role has largely been to link the forwards with the first five. What we're seeing now, though, is halfbacks taking control of matches more than ever before. One of the major benefits of that shift is that it allows you to blood a young No. 10 like Love much more comfortably, as the bulk of the decision-making no longer rests solely on his shoulders like it traditionally has.

Disagree with you on that one mate, I think it still is the consensus, and all we're seeing is 2 or 3 exceptional players causing a blip on the graph. For me it is kind of just as simple as you get a better view from 10, you're better placed to see things which trigger decisions - and that hasn't changed.

I think in the NH particularly the French , they use the halfback a lot more than us to put a bit of control on the tempo of the game .

Where as we tend to traditionally just want quick ball from the HB . Get in the tens hands ASAP .But maybe that’ part is starting to change a bit with Roigard.

I think this is because of rush defences , and 10s can get crowded more with them. I genuinely wonder at times how the likes of Merts, Carter etc would play against the rush defence we have these days. I do think it is changing how our insides play, and reason the box kicking form 9s is so much a thing.

That’s a good point , and roigard sniping probably makes the rush defence hesitant as well

He is the most important Allblack in the squad as it stands in my opinion.

Of course he is, and quite comfortably.

But that is not because he's the bestest greatest player ever in the whole wide world - and although he is certainly very influential, it's not entirely that either. It is largely because our other world class players: the front row, the locks, 12, wing, 15 - even 10 - all have world class back-ups (and we don't even now who our best loosies or centre are).

The reality is that while he is our most important player he's not as good as our last AB halfback, he's not as good as Du Pont so he's not in the world XV, and last time we played Ireland JGP outplayed him.

I think he is as good as Du Pont.

That lad hasnt even played NZ, SA or Australia in the Southern hemisphere yet in a career going back to 2017.

#Fraud

He is arguably not even the best 9 in France anymore.

France have depth at 9 like we have at 2 - you could equally say it's arguable whether Cam would make a French 23.

lol yes he would. You’re just buying into the French fluffing of both of those halfbacks.

Cam Roigard is better than DuPont and Lucu and he comfortably outplayed both of them in previous matchups. If it wasn’t for his serious injury in 2024 there would be no argument about who the best halfback in the world is.

There’s definitely areas of Roigard’s game that are simply unmatched globally and the scary thing is he’s still got plenty of growth in him.

3 halfbacks, Le Garrec is very good too.
I'm not saying I wouldn't pick him, but it's not like here where daylight is 2nd - there would need to be conversations, hence it is arguable.
Du Pont has had major injuries too. And Cam didn't outplay JGP in their last match-up.

Which areas of his game do you think are unmatched globally? I don't think he's got the best vision, best pass, best kick, best running game, lowest error rate, best ruck arrival rate, he's not the fastest, not the strongest.
He's fucking good, but I reckon the hyperbole is a bit out of hand when we're talking unmatched globally.

You clearly said above there’s an argument he wouldn’t make a France 23. To even suggest that tells me you severely underestimate the ability of Roigard. Right now Roigard is the best halfback in the world, followed closely by JGP.

He’s the best running and kicking halfback in the world. His strike rate and ability to score tries is unmatched and he’s arguably both the biggest and strongest halfback in world rugby. Add to the fact he’s just finished dominating Super Rugby, you tell me then who’s leading in all those areas?

His kicking is not as good as JGP or Du Pont for a start, and you've already said you don't watch Du Pont play, so I don't think it's me who is severely underestimating someone.

Roigard’s kicking game is one of his strengths. The height and length he gets in his kicks is why the ABs are able to provide so much defensive pressure.

I’ve seen Du Pont play plenty of times. He’s an exceptional player but it’s easy to look so good when you never face the toughest demands that rugby has to offer. Until he does that, he’s nothing more than a good European player to me.

How many games has Roigard played in South Africa? How many World Cup knockout matches has he featured in? Even by your own metrics, Roigard doesn't measure up...

Roigard is four years younger than DuPont and he’ll play in South Africa first. He doesn’t shy away from the toughest challenges and he would have also played knockout football if it wasn’t for our incompetent coach… even you can probably admit that.

Yes, but he hasn't played in South Africa yet.

Also not sure why Roigard gets a pass for Foster's decision making but for some reason it's Dupont's fault that France haven't played a game in South Africa since 2017?

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Rattle JGP, get him off his game and they're a bit of a nothing side now.

Same could be said for Roigard

He's easily our most important player and with a strike rate like the below he's going to break plenty of records.

I think he is our most important player, but only due to the lack of similar (in style and quality) options behind him.

Yeah but that’s also purely down to how dominant of a player he is. It’s pretty obvious that Roigard has become the dominant decision maker for the ABs.

Historically it’s been the 10 making most of the big decisions, but in recent years that has shifted to the 9, we’ve seen it with JGP at Ireland and Du Pont at France. 9s are having a lot more say on the game than they used to.

That's not some sort of historical trend mate, it's Sexton retiring and France playing a different style. There have always been some 9s who play that way (Weepu, Going, Bachop to an extent) and 10s who range from very dominant game controllers to just a link in the chain.

Roigard is dominant, and does a lot of the kicking, particularly exits. I would be mildly concerned with how that would go if Roigard gets injured.

The historical consensus in rugby has always been that the No. 10 is the primary game driver - the quarterback, so to speak, while the No. 9's role has largely been to link the forwards with the first five. What we're seeing now, though, is halfbacks taking control of matches more than ever before. One of the major benefits of that shift is that it allows you to blood a young No. 10 like Love much more comfortably, as the bulk of the decision-making no longer rests solely on his shoulders like it traditionally has.

Disagree with you on that one mate, I think it still is the consensus, and all we're seeing is 2 or 3 exceptional players causing a blip on the graph. For me it is kind of just as simple as you get a better view from 10, you're better placed to see things which trigger decisions - and that hasn't changed.

I think in the NH particularly the French , they use the halfback a lot more than us to put a bit of control on the tempo of the game .

Where as we tend to traditionally just want quick ball from the HB . Get in the tens hands ASAP .But maybe that’ part is starting to change a bit with Roigard.

I think this is because of rush defences , and 10s can get crowded more with them. I genuinely wonder at times how the likes of Merts, Carter etc would play against the rush defence we have these days. I do think it is changing how our insides play, and reason the box kicking form 9s is so much a thing.

That’s a good point , and roigard sniping probably makes the rush defence hesitant as well

He is the most important Allblack in the squad as it stands in my opinion.

Of course he is, and quite comfortably.

But that is not because he's the bestest greatest player ever in the whole wide world - and although he is certainly very influential, it's not entirely that either. It is largely because our other world class players: the front row, the locks, 12, wing, 15 - even 10 - all have world class back-ups (and we don't even now who our best loosies or centre are).

The reality is that while he is our most important player he's not as good as our last AB halfback, he's not as good as Du Pont so he's not in the world XV, and last time we played Ireland JGP outplayed him.

I think he is as good as Du Pont.

That lad hasnt even played NZ, SA or Australia in the Southern hemisphere yet in a career going back to 2017.

#Fraud

He is arguably not even the best 9 in France anymore.

France have depth at 9 like we have at 2 - you could equally say it's arguable whether Cam would make a French 23.

lol yes he would. You’re just buying into the French fluffing of both of those halfbacks.

Cam Roigard is better than DuPont and Lucu and he comfortably outplayed both of them in previous matchups. If it wasn’t for his serious injury in 2024 there would be no argument about who the best halfback in the world is.

There’s definitely areas of Roigard’s game that are simply unmatched globally and the scary thing is he’s still got plenty of growth in him.

3 halfbacks, Le Garrec is very good too.
I'm not saying I wouldn't pick him, but it's not like here where daylight is 2nd - there would need to be conversations, hence it is arguable.
Du Pont has had major injuries too. And Cam didn't outplay JGP in their last match-up.

Which areas of his game do you think are unmatched globally? I don't think he's got the best vision, best pass, best kick, best running game, lowest error rate, best ruck arrival rate, he's not the fastest, not the strongest.
He's fucking good, but I reckon the hyperbole is a bit out of hand when we're talking unmatched globally.

You clearly said above there’s an argument he wouldn’t make a France 23. To even suggest that tells me you severely underestimate the ability of Roigard. Right now Roigard is the best halfback in the world, followed closely by JGP.

He’s the best running and kicking halfback in the world. His strike rate and ability to score tries is unmatched and he’s arguably both the biggest and strongest halfback in world rugby. Add to the fact he’s just finished dominating Super Rugby, you tell me then who’s leading in all those areas?

His kicking is not as good as JGP or Du Pont for a start, and you've already said you don't watch Du Pont play, so I don't think it's me who is severely underestimating someone.

Roigard’s kicking game is one of his strengths. The height and length he gets in his kicks is why the ABs are able to provide so much defensive pressure.

I’ve seen Du Pont play plenty of times. He’s an exceptional player but it’s easy to look so good when you never face the toughest demands that rugby has to offer. Until he does that, he’s nothing more than a good European player to me.

How many games has Roigard played in South Africa? How many World Cup knockout matches has he featured in? Even by your own metrics, Roigard doesn't measure up...

I have no problem with you thinking Dupont is the better player

To say that he's on a totally other level to Roigard i disagree with

It certainly didnt look that way when they matched up on End Of Year Tour 2024.

Roigard played better than Dupont in that match - don't think anyone would fight you too hard on that point. That was also only Dupont's fifth game back from after spending four months playing Sevens (where he helped France win a gold medal at the Olympics). Regardless, I don't think one head to head match up is a key factor in determining the better player.

Oh so now you are making excuses for the guy. Roigard was coming back from a serious knee injury and comfortably outplayed DuPont that day. I know it’s one match-up, but if DuPont couldn’t dominate the match-up on his home turf, how the hell do people come to the conclusion that he’s easily the best halfback in the world.

For me it’s close between Roigard, DuPont and JGP, but I’d have Roigard at the top right now. I think over the next year and a half we’ll have a better understanding who’s at the top with the rugby to come.

If DuPont goes and dominates the WC in Australia next year like many think he has the ability to, then good on him. He would have proven something.

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Rattle JGP, get him off his game and they're a bit of a nothing side now.

Same could be said for Roigard

He's easily our most important player and with a strike rate like the below he's going to break plenty of records.

I think he is our most important player, but only due to the lack of similar (in style and quality) options behind him.

Yeah but that’s also purely down to how dominant of a player he is. It’s pretty obvious that Roigard has become the dominant decision maker for the ABs.

Historically it’s been the 10 making most of the big decisions, but in recent years that has shifted to the 9, we’ve seen it with JGP at Ireland and Du Pont at France. 9s are having a lot more say on the game than they used to.

That's not some sort of historical trend mate, it's Sexton retiring and France playing a different style. There have always been some 9s who play that way (Weepu, Going, Bachop to an extent) and 10s who range from very dominant game controllers to just a link in the chain.

Roigard is dominant, and does a lot of the kicking, particularly exits. I would be mildly concerned with how that would go if Roigard gets injured.

The historical consensus in rugby has always been that the No. 10 is the primary game driver - the quarterback, so to speak, while the No. 9's role has largely been to link the forwards with the first five. What we're seeing now, though, is halfbacks taking control of matches more than ever before. One of the major benefits of that shift is that it allows you to blood a young No. 10 like Love much more comfortably, as the bulk of the decision-making no longer rests solely on his shoulders like it traditionally has.

Disagree with you on that one mate, I think it still is the consensus, and all we're seeing is 2 or 3 exceptional players causing a blip on the graph. For me it is kind of just as simple as you get a better view from 10, you're better placed to see things which trigger decisions - and that hasn't changed.

I think in the NH particularly the French , they use the halfback a lot more than us to put a bit of control on the tempo of the game .

Where as we tend to traditionally just want quick ball from the HB . Get in the tens hands ASAP .But maybe that’ part is starting to change a bit with Roigard.

I think this is because of rush defences , and 10s can get crowded more with them. I genuinely wonder at times how the likes of Merts, Carter etc would play against the rush defence we have these days. I do think it is changing how our insides play, and reason the box kicking form 9s is so much a thing.

That’s a good point , and roigard sniping probably makes the rush defence hesitant as well

He is the most important Allblack in the squad as it stands in my opinion.

Of course he is, and quite comfortably.

But that is not because he's the bestest greatest player ever in the whole wide world - and although he is certainly very influential, it's not entirely that either. It is largely because our other world class players: the front row, the locks, 12, wing, 15 - even 10 - all have world class back-ups (and we don't even now who our best loosies or centre are).

The reality is that while he is our most important player he's not as good as our last AB halfback, he's not as good as Du Pont so he's not in the world XV, and last time we played Ireland JGP outplayed him.

I think he is as good as Du Pont.

That lad hasnt even played NZ, SA or Australia in the Southern hemisphere yet in a career going back to 2017.

#Fraud

He is arguably not even the best 9 in France anymore.

France have depth at 9 like we have at 2 - you could equally say it's arguable whether Cam would make a French 23.

lol yes he would. You’re just buying into the French fluffing of both of those halfbacks.

Cam Roigard is better than DuPont and Lucu and he comfortably outplayed both of them in previous matchups. If it wasn’t for his serious injury in 2024 there would be no argument about who the best halfback in the world is.

There’s definitely areas of Roigard’s game that are simply unmatched globally and the scary thing is he’s still got plenty of growth in him.

3 halfbacks, Le Garrec is very good too.
I'm not saying I wouldn't pick him, but it's not like here where daylight is 2nd - there would need to be conversations, hence it is arguable.
Du Pont has had major injuries too. And Cam didn't outplay JGP in their last match-up.

Which areas of his game do you think are unmatched globally? I don't think he's got the best vision, best pass, best kick, best running game, lowest error rate, best ruck arrival rate, he's not the fastest, not the strongest.
He's fucking good, but I reckon the hyperbole is a bit out of hand when we're talking unmatched globally.

You clearly said above there’s an argument he wouldn’t make a France 23. To even suggest that tells me you severely underestimate the ability of Roigard. Right now Roigard is the best halfback in the world, followed closely by JGP.

He’s the best running and kicking halfback in the world. His strike rate and ability to score tries is unmatched and he’s arguably both the biggest and strongest halfback in world rugby. Add to the fact he’s just finished dominating Super Rugby, you tell me then who’s leading in all those areas?

His kicking is not as good as JGP or Du Pont for a start, and you've already said you don't watch Du Pont play, so I don't think it's me who is severely underestimating someone.

Roigard’s kicking game is one of his strengths. The height and length he gets in his kicks is why the ABs are able to provide so much defensive pressure.

I’ve seen Du Pont play plenty of times. He’s an exceptional player but it’s easy to look so good when you never face the toughest demands that rugby has to offer. Until he does that, he’s nothing more than a good European player to me.

How many games has Roigard played in South Africa? How many World Cup knockout matches has he featured in? Even by your own metrics, Roigard doesn't measure up...

I have no problem with you thinking Dupont is the better player

To say that he's on a totally other level to Roigard i disagree with

It certainly didnt look that way when they matched up on End Of Year Tour 2024.

Roigard played better than Dupont in that match - don't think anyone would fight you too hard on that point. That was also only Dupont's fifth game back from after spending four months playing Sevens (where he helped France win a gold medal at the Olympics). Regardless, I don't think one head to head match up is a key factor in determining the better player.

Wasnt that Roigard's first tour back after a long term knee injury?

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Rattle JGP, get him off his game and they're a bit of a nothing side now.

Same could be said for Roigard

He's easily our most important player and with a strike rate like the below he's going to break plenty of records.

I think he is our most important player, but only due to the lack of similar (in style and quality) options behind him.

Yeah but that’s also purely down to how dominant of a player he is. It’s pretty obvious that Roigard has become the dominant decision maker for the ABs.

Historically it’s been the 10 making most of the big decisions, but in recent years that has shifted to the 9, we’ve seen it with JGP at Ireland and Du Pont at France. 9s are having a lot more say on the game than they used to.

That's not some sort of historical trend mate, it's Sexton retiring and France playing a different style. There have always been some 9s who play that way (Weepu, Going, Bachop to an extent) and 10s who range from very dominant game controllers to just a link in the chain.

Roigard is dominant, and does a lot of the kicking, particularly exits. I would be mildly concerned with how that would go if Roigard gets injured.

The historical consensus in rugby has always been that the No. 10 is the primary game driver - the quarterback, so to speak, while the No. 9's role has largely been to link the forwards with the first five. What we're seeing now, though, is halfbacks taking control of matches more than ever before. One of the major benefits of that shift is that it allows you to blood a young No. 10 like Love much more comfortably, as the bulk of the decision-making no longer rests solely on his shoulders like it traditionally has.

Disagree with you on that one mate, I think it still is the consensus, and all we're seeing is 2 or 3 exceptional players causing a blip on the graph. For me it is kind of just as simple as you get a better view from 10, you're better placed to see things which trigger decisions - and that hasn't changed.

I think in the NH particularly the French , they use the halfback a lot more than us to put a bit of control on the tempo of the game .

Where as we tend to traditionally just want quick ball from the HB . Get in the tens hands ASAP .But maybe that’ part is starting to change a bit with Roigard.

I think this is because of rush defences , and 10s can get crowded more with them. I genuinely wonder at times how the likes of Merts, Carter etc would play against the rush defence we have these days. I do think it is changing how our insides play, and reason the box kicking form 9s is so much a thing.

That’s a good point , and roigard sniping probably makes the rush defence hesitant as well

He is the most important Allblack in the squad as it stands in my opinion.

Of course he is, and quite comfortably.

But that is not because he's the bestest greatest player ever in the whole wide world - and although he is certainly very influential, it's not entirely that either. It is largely because our other world class players: the front row, the locks, 12, wing, 15 - even 10 - all have world class back-ups (and we don't even now who our best loosies or centre are).

The reality is that while he is our most important player he's not as good as our last AB halfback, he's not as good as Du Pont so he's not in the world XV, and last time we played Ireland JGP outplayed him.

I think he is as good as Du Pont.

That lad hasnt even played NZ, SA or Australia in the Southern hemisphere yet in a career going back to 2017.

#Fraud

He is arguably not even the best 9 in France anymore.

France have depth at 9 like we have at 2 - you could equally say it's arguable whether Cam would make a French 23.

lol yes he would. You’re just buying into the French fluffing of both of those halfbacks.

Cam Roigard is better than DuPont and Lucu and he comfortably outplayed both of them in previous matchups. If it wasn’t for his serious injury in 2024 there would be no argument about who the best halfback in the world is.

There’s definitely areas of Roigard’s game that are simply unmatched globally and the scary thing is he’s still got plenty of growth in him.

3 halfbacks, Le Garrec is very good too.
I'm not saying I wouldn't pick him, but it's not like here where daylight is 2nd - there would need to be conversations, hence it is arguable.
Du Pont has had major injuries too. And Cam didn't outplay JGP in their last match-up.

Which areas of his game do you think are unmatched globally? I don't think he's got the best vision, best pass, best kick, best running game, lowest error rate, best ruck arrival rate, he's not the fastest, not the strongest.
He's fucking good, but I reckon the hyperbole is a bit out of hand when we're talking unmatched globally.

You clearly said above there’s an argument he wouldn’t make a France 23. To even suggest that tells me you severely underestimate the ability of Roigard. Right now Roigard is the best halfback in the world, followed closely by JGP.

He’s the best running and kicking halfback in the world. His strike rate and ability to score tries is unmatched and he’s arguably both the biggest and strongest halfback in world rugby. Add to the fact he’s just finished dominating Super Rugby, you tell me then who’s leading in all those areas?

His kicking is not as good as JGP or Du Pont for a start, and you've already said you don't watch Du Pont play, so I don't think it's me who is severely underestimating someone.

Roigard’s kicking game is one of his strengths. The height and length he gets in his kicks is why the ABs are able to provide so much defensive pressure.

I’ve seen Du Pont play plenty of times. He’s an exceptional player but it’s easy to look so good when you never face the toughest demands that rugby has to offer. Until he does that, he’s nothing more than a good European player to me.

How many games has Roigard played in South Africa? How many World Cup knockout matches has he featured in? Even by your own metrics, Roigard doesn't measure up...

I have no problem with you thinking Dupont is the better player

To say that he's on a totally other level to Roigard i disagree with

It certainly didnt look that way when they matched up on End Of Year Tour 2024.

Roigard played better than Dupont in that match - don't think anyone would fight you too hard on that point. That was also only Dupont's fifth game back from after spending four months playing Sevens (where he helped France win a gold medal at the Olympics). Regardless, I don't think one head to head match up is a key factor in determining the better player.

Wasnt that Roigard's first tour back after a long term knee injury?

See my comment above. Yes it was.

There is rarely agreement on conversations on 'GOATs' and I see these comments about Du Pont on social media alot, frankly I'm in the underwhelmed camp, granted I only see him play test footy, but that is my view.

I reckon id rank at least 3 halves from this century over him, at test level.

I reckon let him see out his career and then see where he ranks.

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Rattle JGP, get him off his game and they're a bit of a nothing side now.

Same could be said for Roigard

He's easily our most important player and with a strike rate like the below he's going to break plenty of records.

I think he is our most important player, but only due to the lack of similar (in style and quality) options behind him.

Yeah but that’s also purely down to how dominant of a player he is. It’s pretty obvious that Roigard has become the dominant decision maker for the ABs.

Historically it’s been the 10 making most of the big decisions, but in recent years that has shifted to the 9, we’ve seen it with JGP at Ireland and Du Pont at France. 9s are having a lot more say on the game than they used to.

That's not some sort of historical trend mate, it's Sexton retiring and France playing a different style. There have always been some 9s who play that way (Weepu, Going, Bachop to an extent) and 10s who range from very dominant game controllers to just a link in the chain.

Roigard is dominant, and does a lot of the kicking, particularly exits. I would be mildly concerned with how that would go if Roigard gets injured.

The historical consensus in rugby has always been that the No. 10 is the primary game driver - the quarterback, so to speak, while the No. 9's role has largely been to link the forwards with the first five. What we're seeing now, though, is halfbacks taking control of matches more than ever before. One of the major benefits of that shift is that it allows you to blood a young No. 10 like Love much more comfortably, as the bulk of the decision-making no longer rests solely on his shoulders like it traditionally has.

Disagree with you on that one mate, I think it still is the consensus, and all we're seeing is 2 or 3 exceptional players causing a blip on the graph. For me it is kind of just as simple as you get a better view from 10, you're better placed to see things which trigger decisions - and that hasn't changed.

I think in the NH particularly the French , they use the halfback a lot more than us to put a bit of control on the tempo of the game .

Where as we tend to traditionally just want quick ball from the HB . Get in the tens hands ASAP .But maybe that’ part is starting to change a bit with Roigard.

I think this is because of rush defences , and 10s can get crowded more with them. I genuinely wonder at times how the likes of Merts, Carter etc would play against the rush defence we have these days. I do think it is changing how our insides play, and reason the box kicking form 9s is so much a thing.

That’s a good point , and roigard sniping probably makes the rush defence hesitant as well

He is the most important Allblack in the squad as it stands in my opinion.

Of course he is, and quite comfortably.

But that is not because he's the bestest greatest player ever in the whole wide world - and although he is certainly very influential, it's not entirely that either. It is largely because our other world class players: the front row, the locks, 12, wing, 15 - even 10 - all have world class back-ups (and we don't even now who our best loosies or centre are).

The reality is that while he is our most important player he's not as good as our last AB halfback, he's not as good as Du Pont so he's not in the world XV, and last time we played Ireland JGP outplayed him.

I think he is as good as Du Pont.

That lad hasnt even played NZ, SA or Australia in the Southern hemisphere yet in a career going back to 2017.

#Fraud

He is arguably not even the best 9 in France anymore.

France have depth at 9 like we have at 2 - you could equally say it's arguable whether Cam would make a French 23.

lol yes he would. You’re just buying into the French fluffing of both of those halfbacks.

Cam Roigard is better than DuPont and Lucu and he comfortably outplayed both of them in previous matchups. If it wasn’t for his serious injury in 2024 there would be no argument about who the best halfback in the world is.

There’s definitely areas of Roigard’s game that are simply unmatched globally and the scary thing is he’s still got plenty of growth in him.

3 halfbacks, Le Garrec is very good too.
I'm not saying I wouldn't pick him, but it's not like here where daylight is 2nd - there would need to be conversations, hence it is arguable.
Du Pont has had major injuries too. And Cam didn't outplay JGP in their last match-up.

Which areas of his game do you think are unmatched globally? I don't think he's got the best vision, best pass, best kick, best running game, lowest error rate, best ruck arrival rate, he's not the fastest, not the strongest.
He's fucking good, but I reckon the hyperbole is a bit out of hand when we're talking unmatched globally.

You clearly said above there’s an argument he wouldn’t make a France 23. To even suggest that tells me you severely underestimate the ability of Roigard. Right now Roigard is the best halfback in the world, followed closely by JGP.

He’s the best running and kicking halfback in the world. His strike rate and ability to score tries is unmatched and he’s arguably both the biggest and strongest halfback in world rugby. Add to the fact he’s just finished dominating Super Rugby, you tell me then who’s leading in all those areas?

His kicking is not as good as JGP or Du Pont for a start, and you've already said you don't watch Du Pont play, so I don't think it's me who is severely underestimating someone.

Roigard’s kicking game is one of his strengths. The height and length he gets in his kicks is why the ABs are able to provide so much defensive pressure.

I’ve seen Du Pont play plenty of times. He’s an exceptional player but it’s easy to look so good when you never face the toughest demands that rugby has to offer. Until he does that, he’s nothing more than a good European player to me.

How many games has Roigard played in South Africa? How many World Cup knockout matches has he featured in? Even by your own metrics, Roigard doesn't measure up...

Roigard is four years younger than DuPont and he’ll play in South Africa first. He doesn’t shy away from the toughest challenges and he would have also played knockout football if it wasn’t for our incompetent coach… even you can probably admit that.

Yes, but he hasn't played in South Africa yet.

Also not sure why Roigard gets a pass for Foster's decision making but for some reason it's Dupont's fault that France haven't played a game in South Africa since 2017?

You are the one saying Dupont is on another level to Roigard

I'm saying they both have things to prove.

Neither have played test rugby in Africa (i'm not counting one 20 minute bench game as a rookie)

Neither has done anything in RWC knockouts

The scariest thing about Roigard is how many tries he scores. His try scoring record at Super is not far off what he's started in black with. Absolutely unheard of for a 9 to have that kind of strike rate, be really interesting to see if it continues at both levels.

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Rattle JGP, get him off his game and they're a bit of a nothing side now.

Same could be said for Roigard

He's easily our most important player and with a strike rate like the below he's going to break plenty of records.

I think he is our most important player, but only due to the lack of similar (in style and quality) options behind him.

Yeah but that’s also purely down to how dominant of a player he is. It’s pretty obvious that Roigard has become the dominant decision maker for the ABs.

Historically it’s been the 10 making most of the big decisions, but in recent years that has shifted to the 9, we’ve seen it with JGP at Ireland and Du Pont at France. 9s are having a lot more say on the game than they used to.

That's not some sort of historical trend mate, it's Sexton retiring and France playing a different style. There have always been some 9s who play that way (Weepu, Going, Bachop to an extent) and 10s who range from very dominant game controllers to just a link in the chain.

Roigard is dominant, and does a lot of the kicking, particularly exits. I would be mildly concerned with how that would go if Roigard gets injured.

The historical consensus in rugby has always been that the No. 10 is the primary game driver - the quarterback, so to speak, while the No. 9's role has largely been to link the forwards with the first five. What we're seeing now, though, is halfbacks taking control of matches more than ever before. One of the major benefits of that shift is that it allows you to blood a young No. 10 like Love much more comfortably, as the bulk of the decision-making no longer rests solely on his shoulders like it traditionally has.

Disagree with you on that one mate, I think it still is the consensus, and all we're seeing is 2 or 3 exceptional players causing a blip on the graph. For me it is kind of just as simple as you get a better view from 10, you're better placed to see things which trigger decisions - and that hasn't changed.

I think in the NH particularly the French , they use the halfback a lot more than us to put a bit of control on the tempo of the game .

Where as we tend to traditionally just want quick ball from the HB . Get in the tens hands ASAP .But maybe that’ part is starting to change a bit with Roigard.

I think this is because of rush defences , and 10s can get crowded more with them. I genuinely wonder at times how the likes of Merts, Carter etc would play against the rush defence we have these days. I do think it is changing how our insides play, and reason the box kicking form 9s is so much a thing.

That’s a good point , and roigard sniping probably makes the rush defence hesitant as well

He is the most important Allblack in the squad as it stands in my opinion.

Of course he is, and quite comfortably.

But that is not because he's the bestest greatest player ever in the whole wide world - and although he is certainly very influential, it's not entirely that either. It is largely because our other world class players: the front row, the locks, 12, wing, 15 - even 10 - all have world class back-ups (and we don't even now who our best loosies or centre are).

The reality is that while he is our most important player he's not as good as our last AB halfback, he's not as good as Du Pont so he's not in the world XV, and last time we played Ireland JGP outplayed him.

I think he is as good as Du Pont.

That lad hasnt even played NZ, SA or Australia in the Southern hemisphere yet in a career going back to 2017.

#Fraud

He is arguably not even the best 9 in France anymore.

France have depth at 9 like we have at 2 - you could equally say it's arguable whether Cam would make a French 23.

lol yes he would. You’re just buying into the French fluffing of both of those halfbacks.

Cam Roigard is better than DuPont and Lucu and he comfortably outplayed both of them in previous matchups. If it wasn’t for his serious injury in 2024 there would be no argument about who the best halfback in the world is.

There’s definitely areas of Roigard’s game that are simply unmatched globally and the scary thing is he’s still got plenty of growth in him.

3 halfbacks, Le Garrec is very good too.
I'm not saying I wouldn't pick him, but it's not like here where daylight is 2nd - there would need to be conversations, hence it is arguable.
Du Pont has had major injuries too. And Cam didn't outplay JGP in their last match-up.

Which areas of his game do you think are unmatched globally? I don't think he's got the best vision, best pass, best kick, best running game, lowest error rate, best ruck arrival rate, he's not the fastest, not the strongest.
He's fucking good, but I reckon the hyperbole is a bit out of hand when we're talking unmatched globally.

You clearly said above there’s an argument he wouldn’t make a France 23. To even suggest that tells me you severely underestimate the ability of Roigard. Right now Roigard is the best halfback in the world, followed closely by JGP.

He’s the best running and kicking halfback in the world. His strike rate and ability to score tries is unmatched and he’s arguably both the biggest and strongest halfback in world rugby. Add to the fact he’s just finished dominating Super Rugby, you tell me then who’s leading in all those areas?

His kicking is not as good as JGP or Du Pont for a start, and you've already said you don't watch Du Pont play, so I don't think it's me who is severely underestimating someone.

Roigard’s kicking game is one of his strengths. The height and length he gets in his kicks is why the ABs are able to provide so much defensive pressure.

I’ve seen Du Pont play plenty of times. He’s an exceptional player but it’s easy to look so good when you never face the toughest demands that rugby has to offer. Until he does that, he’s nothing more than a good European player to me.

How many games has Roigard played in South Africa? How many World Cup knockout matches has he featured in? Even by your own metrics, Roigard doesn't measure up...

Roigard is four years younger than DuPont and he’ll play in South Africa first. He doesn’t shy away from the toughest challenges and he would have also played knockout football if it wasn’t for our incompetent coach… even you can probably admit that.

Being injured isn't shying away. Or was Cam just scared for most of 2024? He does have a history of pretending to be injured now that I think about it...