What a splendid result. That was damn tough
Lions
Match thread
Crusaders v Super Rugby Final
@MiketheSnow said in Lions v Crusaders - Super Rugby Final:
@Hooroo said in Lions v Crusaders - Super Rugby Final:
@ACT-Crusader said in Lions v Crusaders - Super Rugby Final:
Lions hot on attack and score.
Stupid mistakes are costing us big time.
Mistakes due to weariness
15 v 14
So? The Crusaders were knackered at altitude. Lions can cope with that
Top game. Unfortunate but fair red card. Great game plan from Robertson et al. He/they have adjusted the game plan all season. I was against Robertson's appointment but happy to admit I was completely wrong. He has revitalised the team and the Canterbury rugby public. I am very happy.
@Hooroo said in Lions v Crusaders - Super Rugby Final:
@MiketheSnow said in Lions v Crusaders - Super Rugby Final:
@Hooroo said in Lions v Crusaders - Super Rugby Final:
@ACT-Crusader said in Lions v Crusaders - Super Rugby Final:
Lions hot on attack and score.
Stupid mistakes are costing us big time.
Mistakes due to weariness
15 v 14
So? The Crusaders were knackered at altitude. Lions can cope with that
Should have put the Lions away 40-60 but didn't, then the altitude factor kicked in.
Subbing Marx screwed the Lions.
I only got to watch the last 20 min and judging solely on those, the Lions should have won by 50.
Yeah! Hats off to Robertson he subbed early unlike Boyd last week but it still just about came undone.
Crotty take a bow. Never too flash always delivers though.
After the earthquake disappointment in 11 and the Joubert error in 14 it's happy days.
Kudos to Saders. The red card had even more impact than usual. Travel factor was always going to kick in around 60 and had Lions been within 20 might well have got there.
Not sure Crotty has lost this season. Out for Chch BI lions and Canes matches and AB second test. Decision making makes those around him play a definite notch up.
Congratulations to the Saders, class team. To the Lions and especially to coach Akkers, thank you for bringing pride back to Johannesburg rugby. Johan Ackerman you are a class gentleman.
Not the end of the world, the sun is rising tomorrow again.
And now the Swys era starts. See you lot next year.
Another important game marred by controversy, but.
Crotty named Man-of-Match? Fucking outrageous... I had the forethought to be drinking a chilled NZ red wine... ticking all the superstitious boxes (cold like Canterbury, from NZ, and red to match Canterbury colours... although a little concerned when I remembered Lions also wear red).
But, I know that I have the moral man-of-match. And I don't begrudge Crotty his 100,000R.
@MiketheSnow Agreed. Why sub Marx when he was dominating the game. This guy is going to be better than Birsmark and will cause us a lot of problems over the next few years.
Congratulations Crusaders. Best team all year. Razor did a magnificent job in his first season - what a coaching record he has!
Crotty deserving man of the match - sensational.
Good season Lions - fought back well. Ackermann turned the franchise around - an amazing effort.
@Crash said in Lions v Crusaders - Super Rugby Final:
For a sell-out there are a lot of empty seats
I've seen shitloads of tweets and FB posts where they were handing them out like candy! Someone ( sponsors?) must have bought a big lot of tickets and haven't been able to get people to use them, I guess.
@MiketheSnow said in Lions v Crusaders - Super Rugby Final:
@Hooroo said in Lions v Crusaders - Super Rugby Final:
@MiketheSnow said in Lions v Crusaders - Super Rugby Final:
@Hooroo said in Lions v Crusaders - Super Rugby Final:
@ACT-Crusader said in Lions v Crusaders - Super Rugby Final:
Lions hot on attack and score.
Stupid mistakes are costing us big time.
Mistakes due to weariness
15 v 14
So? The Crusaders were knackered at altitude. Lions can cope with that
Should have put the Lions away 40-60 but didn't, then the altitude factor kicked in.
Subbing Marx screwed the Lions.
@booboo said in Lions v Crusaders - Super Rugby Final:
@MiketheSnow said in Lions v Crusaders - Super Rugby Final:
@Hooroo said in Lions v Crusaders - Super Rugby Final:
@MiketheSnow said in Lions v Crusaders - Super Rugby Final:
@Hooroo said in Lions v Crusaders - Super Rugby Final:
@ACT-Crusader said in Lions v Crusaders - Super Rugby Final:
Lions hot on attack and score.
Stupid mistakes are costing us big time.
Mistakes due to weariness
15 v 14
So? The Crusaders were knackered at altitude. Lions can cope with that
Should have put the Lions away 40-60 but didn't, then the altitude factor kicked in.
Subbing Marx screwed the Lions.
Phew - managed to load image after 5 attempts ... that took a bit of doing. IT-idiot.
@booboo said in Lions v Crusaders - Super Rugby Final:
@booboo said in Lions v Crusaders - Super Rugby Final:
@MiketheSnow said in Lions v Crusaders - Super Rugby Final:
@Hooroo said in Lions v Crusaders - Super Rugby Final:
@MiketheSnow said in Lions v Crusaders - Super Rugby Final:
@Hooroo said in Lions v Crusaders - Super Rugby Final:
@ACT-Crusader said in Lions v Crusaders - Super Rugby Final:
Lions hot on attack and score.
Stupid mistakes are costing us big time.
Mistakes due to weariness
15 v 14
So? The Crusaders were knackered at altitude. Lions can cope with that
Should have put the Lions away 40-60 but didn't, then the altitude factor kicked in.
Subbing Marx screwed the Lions.
Phew - managed to load image after 5 attempts ... that took a bit of doing. IT-idiot.
Didn't realise they swam there
@Crucial said in Lions v Crusaders - Super Rugby Final:
@ACT-Crusader said in Lions v Crusaders - Super Rugby Final:
@rotated said in Lions v Crusaders - Super Rugby Final:
This is where the neutral referee & TMO would be ideal.
Nah. The right process and decision was made.
I hate these ones. Smith wasn't trying to tackle anyone, he was chasing the ball as you should. He looks up and sees Havili has taken to the air and is about to collide with him in. You could argue that Havili put himself in danger by jumping toward other players on the ground that couldn't get out of the way with his knees forward and toward their heads.
Havili was just playing the game and so was Smith. By the way things are ruled Smith was meant to anticipate that someone would take a flying leap at his head though which is silly. Rugby is a game played on your feet according to the Laws.
Why would you not anticipate someone jumping for a kick? Been living in the wilderness for the last 15 odd years? That's like letting people off for a high tackle because the other guy is short.
Red and Yellow cards are absolutely defining rugby right now.
However, well done Crusaders and gutsy fucken effort Lions.
Razor Robinson's matra is a DJ Khaled song. "All I do is win win win no matter what" that guy is a future ABs coach. Both undeniable and scary. Breakdancing and All Blacks coach should ever appear in the same sentence.
2 teams with he highest point tally were in the final. That's usually a good thing. Maybe the Lions got an easy ride. They beat the former champions though so IMO they deserved their final spot just as much as the Crusaders.
But I'll be fucken happy to see the end of this ridiculous format. On another note I think we have also seen the end of rugby as we knew it. The powers that be may have the players welfare at heart but it's obvious that common sense no longer has a place in officiating dangerous collisions. Its by the book no matter what.
@raznomore yea you gotta think a lot of being an AB coach comes down to timing (when you are good enough and have results obviously) if he continues to get results, Razor could well be timing it perfectly for when Shag steps down with most others who will be vying likely out of NZ and probably contracted elsewhere.
@Bones said in Lions v Crusaders - Super Rugby Final:
@Crucial said in Lions v Crusaders - Super Rugby Final:
@ACT-Crusader said in Lions v Crusaders - Super Rugby Final:
@rotated said in Lions v Crusaders - Super Rugby Final:
This is where the neutral referee & TMO would be ideal.
Nah. The right process and decision was made.
I hate these ones. Smith wasn't trying to tackle anyone, he was chasing the ball as you should. He looks up and sees Havili has taken to the air and is about to collide with him in. You could argue that Havili put himself in danger by jumping toward other players on the ground that couldn't get out of the way with his knees forward and toward their heads.
Havili was just playing the game and so was Smith. By the way things are ruled Smith was meant to anticipate that someone would take a flying leap at his head though which is silly. Rugby is a game played on your feet according to the Laws.Why would you not anticipate someone jumping for a kick? Been living in the wilderness for the last 15 odd years? That's like letting people off for a high tackle because the other guy is short.
Totally different.
Smith did nothing that you wouldn't expect from a normal player. He wasn't reckless, he didn't create danger. Yes, someone MAY jump, but until they do he is allowed to do what he is doing.
I'm not saying it was a wrong decision. Under the way these happenings are ruled , the decision was correct.
What I don't like is that a player doing nothing wrong is suddenly 'in the wrong' because of another player's actions. Using your high tackle example it is more like a player ducking. A short player is always short. A player in the air isn't always in the air.
Currently if I am standing set under a ball and someone jumps well above me and catches the ball, knees me in the head and then goes tits up and crashes on his shoulders I get red carded. I'm not saying that is exactly what happened here but very similar.
I didn't create the danger, the guy leaping into me did. He took a risk that didn't pay off but I got the blame.
I don't know the answer to the issue though. I don't want to see jumping stopped but a bit of pragmatism needs to be in play. If the video shows that the player jumped after the 'offender' was in a ground position for a catch then the risk is his and the other guy shouldn't cop the blame.
I really don't know how dumb you'd have to be in today's rugby to not have the slightest inkling when chasing a kick that the opposition may, just maybe, go in the air. Yeah shit I bet Smith was surprised, probably never seen a player do that before huh!
@Crucial, a player doing karate kicks in the middle of the field isn't doing anything wrong until he hits another player that's run into him. But once he does, probably not a wise thing to be doing eh? So why not use his brains and anticipate what is going on...
Crotty deservedly named MotM but a few others deserve a mention too : Goodhue was a rock in defense, Tamanivalu was outstanding in the first half when the Crusaders had some possession, Todd was everywhere, and Whitelock did what he usually does. Alalaatoa was also good when he came in. Is he eligible for NZ, Australia or Samoa ?
@Bones said in Lions v Crusaders - Super Rugby Final:
I really don't know how dumb you'd have to be in today's rugby to not have the slightest inkling when chasing a kick that the opposition may, just maybe, go in the air. Yeah shit I bet Smith was surprised, probably never seen a player do that before huh!
@Crucial, a player doing karate kicks in the middle of the field isn't doing anything wrong until he hits another player that's run into him. But once he does, probably not a wise thing to be doing eh? So why not use his brains and anticipate what is going on...
I think you are deliberately missing the point.
Currently if there is a high ball and you are positioned (or getting into position) to catch, and there is a chaser, you are actually obliged to put yourself into potential danger by jumping or anticipate the other player jumping and get out of the way.
IMO that is plain dumb. Why does the player that takes a risk by going to the air have the rights?
Yes, in this occasion everyone knows that dumb ruling applies and he should have jumped himself or got out of the way. I'm not disputing that. I'm simply saying that I find this situation unfair on the player playing the game by the law 'on his feet'.
Is everyone on the ground near where a ball is coming down expected to move away because a chaser may take a flying leap at them? That's what is currently expected and I find that weird as there is no danger at all until that player leaps.
Edit: just to be clear. If the guy on the ground is nowhere near where the ball is coming down he has no rights and shouldn't provide an obstacle for those able to claim he catch.
The timing can be very fine.
There is a debate to be had about marginal red cards. Not this one though. This one was about as obvious and clear red as ever.
I thought Sam Whitelock was MOTM. Those steals at the end were crucial, and he played well all game.
Haven't watched it, won't watch it, but congratulations to Scott Robertson and the whole crusader organisation. It's a remarkable season to play in the NZ conference, only lose once, and then travel to South Africa and win the final. Hell of a year
@mariner4life said in Lions v Crusaders - Super Rugby Final:
Haven't watched it, won't watch it, but congratulations to Scott Robertson and the whole crusader organisation. It's a remarkable season to play in the NZ conference, only lose once, and then travel to South Africa and win the final. Hell of a year
That's the thing right? They have broken the travel to SA and win a final hoodoo
And at Altitude! Fuck that.
That was just damn tough.
Crotty was outstanding but my hero of the match was Whitelock. Did a McCaw in terms of match durability.
That last 20 mins must have been in a dark dark place. Read too I imagine
A big part of rugby is about anticipating what the opposition will do, both in attack and defence, and often you mistime or misread what will happen and you suffer the consequences. Often no malice or intent, but your inability to anticipate the situation leaves you in the hands of the officials.
There is a lot of clarification required around dangerous play though, we have seen some really harsh penalties and cards this season for plays that are part of the competition, while some cards have been clear and obvious, and some have been let go.
IMO if Kainos forearm in the Lions test was in super rugby it would have been red and copped him a ban, but the bed had been made the week before with SOB.
I have also always been of the opinion that we need to find a better way to deal with 'accidental' red card offenses, but this opens up another can of worms.
I wonder if there has been more cards at super rugby and international than previously?
Solid! 
Crusaders learned from the Canes' experience. Slowed things down at nearly every opportunity and needed to. They were looking pretty weary at the end of it.
Thought most of our AB "stars" really stood up in that game - Crotty, Read and Whitelock in particular. Goodhue looked fairly close to flawless as well. Todd and Drummond very good. Most of the others made at least one dumb or careless error that could have been crucial - especially if the Lions had stayed at 15 men.
However, SANZAR had tilted the playing field pretty heavily in the Lions favour, so a bit of adversity to tip some advantage back to us was very welcome.
And on that note - Fuck you SANZAR. You had better have a competent panel designing a fair, reduced competition or I may well not bother watching in future. That so-called "competition" was a fucking farce. I reckon it ended up being as tough as the earthquake season for the Crusaders, so a mighty effort to get the job done.
I'd like to give a heap of credit to the Lions. They were slandered by the NZ media and fanbase because they didn't have to play NZ sides and haven't had to travel in the playoffs, as if they were no-hopers. What they showed against the Canes and in the second half this morning suggests they are legitimately one of the best sides in the comp and would've won their fair share of games against NZ sides had the draw asked them to.