@kirwan Interesting questions.

If you are leading 13-5 after playing into the wind in the pouring rain against the Jaguares - and if you keep pinning them back in their own half for the second half, they've probably not got the firepower to beat you from there.

Somehow the players have both disregarded Tana's plan and common sense.

I reckon there's plenty of players, when they get the ball into their hands their natural instinct is just to run - so maybe the ball was getting into the wrong people's hands at the wrong time. Perhaps needed Perofeta (and later Kirkpatrick) to step up and demand the ball - and boot it downfield.

Why didn't they do this? Lack of confidence? Certainly, when Kirkpatrick took that penalty kick for touch towards the end he seemed to be lacking in confidence - first priority seemed to be ensuring he didn't fuck up, rather than getting his forwards close enough to the line for a lineout drive.

4 losses in a row equals the worst sequence of home games in Blues history. Of course this current run includes the worst ever home defeat.

The next home game is vs the Hurricanes. Then it’s the Crusaders.

@kirwan said in Blues v Jaguares:

Another article not criticising Tana in any way, don’t they get tired of blowing smoke up his arse?

You have to love the quote “We are not too far away”. From what? Bottoms of the table? Being a complete rabble?

Question. What can a coach do when a team/senior players are not playing your game plan (after sending on a waterman to remind them)?

You yank the players and make it clear there are consequences for not playing for the team. Or you could just moan in the press I guess.

The bigger question is why are the players ignoring him? Has he lost the dressing room? Hard to blame the players when he throws them under the bus publicly like this.

Welcome to the world of the Hurricanes supportor from 2011 to the end of 2014. It's amazing how some coaches will have journalists gobbling on their knobs regardless of performance. Funny how the deficiencies and incompetence are seen by everyone other than the so-called experts who are paid to write about rugby. One thing that was clear about the Hammett era Canes was their complete lack of direction on field. They were all over the place. Umaga's Blues remind me of them. No proper structure, no confidence in the game plan, no leadership.

I have no advice other than to just let that anger out. Theres nothing else you can do at this stage.

@chris-b said in Blues v Jaguares:

Somehow the players have both disregarded Tana's plan and common sense.

this.

Not sure this Blues team is even in the right space to play spoilers like the Chiefs of old.

Mark Watson and Shane Howarth calling for Tana's head...from 8.53.

Endorsing pretty much everything Blues fans are saying here...fill yer boots!

One big positive from last night - Dalton Papalii. Keeping his standards high despite what's going on around him.

@chris-b crazy to think Howarth was only 3 points outside the Finals and gets sacked..!

@chris-b said in Blues v Jaguares:

View embedded content

View embedded content

Mark Watson and Shane Howarth calling for Tana's head...from 8.53.

Endorsing pretty much everything Blues fans are saying here...fill yer boots!

Thanks for posting that. Howarth's comments were exactly right

Compare what Howarth had to say with the fairy tales from Paul or McKendry at the NZ Herald.

The all time Blues XV discussion is in this thread now:

Regarding the ownership, I thought that the private ownership was only for certain parts of the Blues organisation and I would have assumed not for coaching and player as NZR directly funds those salaries?

You'd assume that NZR would have some structures in place to regain control of the franchises. They pay the salary bill, they should have control.

At any rate, the Hammettuer debacle showed NZR wont step in, they watched that Canes fan base shrink and stood by doing nothing ... and I'm not talking about people like me who just switched to following another team, I know a bunch of people who never returned to following Super rugby after it.

@duluth said in Blues v Jaguares:

The next home game is vs the Hurricanes. Then it’s the Crusaders.

Fuck. Thanks for that.

There is a certain irony that the guy that set it up was a former coach of the team.

The only thing the Blues have got right is their name. I get depressed every time I watch them.

@dice Similar to Akira in 2015 (Akira was probably more dominant but still). Probably the only positive to come out of this season.

@nepia said in Blues v Jaguares:

Regarding the ownership, I thought that the private ownership was only for certain parts of the Blues organisation and I would have assumed not for coaching and player as NZR directly funds those salaries?

You'd assume that NZR would have some structures in place to regain control of the franchises. They pay the salary bill, they should have control.

At any rate, the Hammettuer debacle showed NZR wont step in, they watched that Canes fan base shrink and stood by doing nothing ... and I'm not talking about people like me who just switched to following another team, I know a bunch of people who never returned to following Super rugby after it.

With respect Nepia, if they didn't return then they're pretty crap fans. The Canes have been awesome since then and haven't let anyone down, especially the fans. In fact, this has unarguably been the most consistently successful Canes era. I understand if they were completely and utterly dejected by the "Training really well" era but they must have gotten word that things are a million times better now.

@chris-b said in Blues v Jaguares:

@kirwan Interesting questions.

If you are leading 13-5 after playing into the wind in the pouring rain against the Jaguares - and if you keep pinning them back in their own half for the second half, they've probably not got the firepower to beat you from there.

Somehow the players have both disregarded Tana's plan and common sense.

I reckon there's plenty of players, when they get the ball into their hands their natural instinct is just to run - so maybe the ball was getting into the wrong people's hands at the wrong time. Perhaps needed Perofeta (and later Kirkpatrick) to step up and demand the ball - and boot it downfield.

Why didn't they do this? Lack of confidence? Certainly, when Kirkpatrick took that penalty kick for touch towards the end he seemed to be lacking in confidence - first priority seemed to be ensuring he didn't fuck up, rather than getting his forwards close enough to the line for a lineout drive.

I remember one kick in the first half that their 15 almost returned to the damn tryline, got penalised for obstruction in it luckily.

Maybe that spooked them? Maybe they don’t trust the defensive structure or some of their team mates and decided to try and hang onto the ball?

Either way, I think they did have the fire power to hurt us, our defence this year hasn’t been great. Also, we had a lot of trouble getting the ball off them in the second half, they were great at rumbling up the field. Maybe they thought the game plan needed to changed because they could hardly get the ball so didn’t want to kick it away. Panic basically, losing week after week can do that.

@african-monkey said in Blues v Jaguares:

@dice Similar to Akira in 2015 (Akira was probably more dominant but still). Probably the only positive to come out of this season.

So if Tana stays we can look for to Tupou playing in front of him next year like he did to Akira in his second year.

@rancid-schnitzel I didn't say they made conscious decisions not to return, for many I think other stuff just replaced Super Rugby and by the time the Canes had sorted out their organisation they had other things going on with their lives.

Maybe they could be called crap fans, but these were people who spent a lot of money on tickets and gears for 15 years

Any rugby "fan" that packs a sad and "leaves" the team because they're losing has as much cred as a self absorbed millennial and should pretty much fuck off...

In my opinion

@siam said in Blues v Jaguares:

Any rugby "fan" that packs a sad and "leaves" the team because they're losing has as much cred as a self absorbed millennial and should pretty much fuck off...

In my opinion

I think you missed the point of this discussion.

@nepia said in Blues v Jaguares:

@rancid-schnitzel I didn't say they made conscious decisions not to return, for many I think other stuff just replaced Super Rugby and by the time the Canes had sorted out their organisation they had other things going on with their lives.

Maybe they could be called crap fans, but these were people who spent a lot of money on tickets and gears for 15 years

Fair enough. It's just a shame theyre missing out now. Canes have (mostly) been a joy to watch the past 3 years.

Those who left the Canes during Hammett deserve nothing but scorn.

Imagine if Chiefs fans did that before Rennie. There'd be no franchise left!

We just didn't take the Chiefs seriously (win, lose or draw). And I say that as someone who went to a Chiefs home game at NH stadium.

But I can fully understand if someone from a non-franchise city/town is ambivalent towards Super rugby.

@nepia yep. A get off my lawn senior moment

@chris-b said in Blues v Jaguares:

View embedded content

View embedded content

Mark Watson and Shane Howarth calling for Tana's head...from 8.53.

Endorsing pretty much everything Blues fans are saying here...fill yer boots!

I hate that I agree with anything Mark Watson says.

I'll say I don't agree 100% with him over this (fuck he has a massive chip about NZR/Hansen etc) but he's got a point re Tana. Just can't see him going this year. Recruiting post-RWC may be interesting though.

@kirwan And have Tupou as captain with Apisai as his vice captain.

@african-monkey said in Blues v Jaguares:

@kirwan And have Tupou as captain with Apisai as his vice captain.

It’s funny cause it’s true

What struck me as a disinterested observer was the contrast between watching the Blues and then watching the Crusaders immediately after.

The Crusaders were far from perfect and dropped a lot of ball. But they had a clear game plan that everyone knew and they had energy - notably on defence - they looked like they enjoyed defending, all the players bouncing back to their feet and back into the line and sprinting across the line if they thought they were undermanned somewhere.

The Blues team looked tired - I know the conditions were sapping but not many of them looked energetic. And no clear game plan at all. They had to use the wind to pin the Jags back in their 22 and make them work from deep and then use energetic defence to force mistakes - that's what you do on a foul night with a lead and the wind behind. Still no idea why I tipped them to win - and something has to give next week with the NZ teams beating Aussie teams every time, who will back the Blues to win in Sydney?

@kiwipie said in Blues v Jaguares:

What struck me as a disinterested observer was the contrast between watching the Blues and then watching the Crusaders immediately after.

The Crusaders were far from perfect and dropped a lot of ball. But they had a clear game plan that everyone knew and they had energy - notably on defence - they looked like they enjoyed defending, all the players bouncing back to their feet and back into the line and sprinting across the line if they thought they were undermanned somewhere.

The Blues team looked tired - I know the conditions were sapping but not many of them looked energetic. And no clear game plan at all. They had to use the wind to pin the Jags back in their 22 and make them work from deep and then use energetic defence to force mistakes - that's what you do on a foul night with a lead and the wind behind. Still no idea why I tipped them to win - and something has to give next week with the NZ teams beating Aussie teams every time, who will back the Blues to win in Sydney?

Agreed. The preparation issues you touch on have been evident since the first game against the Chiefs. The fall off in effort is a more recent problem.. perhaps the wheels are completely falling off..

If you were to single out the players who put in a good effort over the weekend it probably would be Goodhue and Papali'i.
Whats notable about them? They have only recently been exposed to the top team.

Against the Waratahs I wouldn't be surprised if we are slight favourites with the bookies again. By my count the Blues have been favourites in 5 matches and only converted that once against the Sunwolves (progress is being made! players are growing! don't throw out the progress!)

Agreed about the the lack of fitness/tired looking Blues team.

The other two things that really get me is the predictable nature of their attacking structure and the soft/dumb penalties they give away every week. Well coached teams with a good culture do not have this happen week after week after week.

Blues will be doing well to win another game this season.

@kiwimurph yep, Hurricanes & Saders home and away out of their 7 remaining games....

can the Tahs break the Aussie drought, or will they shoot their load and give the Blues a bit of a reprieve given they will likely being trying their arses off to not be the 1st Kiwi side in almost 40 games to lose to an Aussie one.

Be annoying if we are team that breaks the Aussie losing streak. I was hoping that would get over 50.

Still, another target for Tana. What’s his list now?

• First kiwi team to lose to the Sunwolves
• First kiwi team to lose to the Jaguares
• Worst home losing streak
• Worst home loss
• Worst winning percentage against kiwi teams

Did. I. Miss. Anything?

Is it time to ring the changes up front ? The Blues must get rid of these fatties who can't scrum and can't run either. I know they are still very green but it would be interesting to try young props like Lindenmuth and Salmon from the bench. Lyndon Dunshea's density could be useful at 6. A Dunshea - Papali'i - Ioane combo would ask questions to the Tahs defence.

@cgrant young props can get munched out there. Could get ugly -- I'd rather go and beat the Tahs at home to make everything right with the world, and provide the space to reappoint Tana. I'm not even sure what's satire any more.

also, do we have talent coming through? I'm not seeing it yet - it takes years to get the development right.

@nzzp I thnk Ross Wright has done enough to warrant a shot to start, be it at prop or Hooker, but in saying that, start him at prop and put Moulds alongside him at , Parsons needs a rest to watch things form the sideline....

@taniwharugby said in Blues v Jaguares:

@nzzp I thnk Ross Wright has done enough to warrant a shot to start, be it at prop or Hooker, but in saying that, start him at prop and put Moulds alongside him at , Parsons needs a rest to watch things form the sideline....

Id' like to see Akira and Rieko given a decent break as well. We've flogged them this season, and it cna't be good for the ABs

@nzzp Rieko in particular seems to be struggling, Blues are playing him out of form (and position)