The thing is that Tana played at 2nd 5, centre and on the wing so he should have a good appreciation of the skillsets required for each position.

@bovidae said in Blues v Jaguares:

The thing is that Tana played at 2nd 5, centre and on the wing so he should have a good appreciation of the skillsets required for each position.

Just because you were a great player doesn't mean you are a great selector or coach. So I will highlight your use of the word "should" and point you at the Blues record over the past three years.

I'm probably going along again.

< sigh >

FML

Hmmm if the Jaguares play anywhere near their best I feel they win comfortably but they are very inconsistent. Hard game to pick but with the way both teams have been going I'm leaning towards the Jaguares in a close one.

I thought it may be interesting with all the injuries to compare this team to a pre-season hope for 'best XV'

@tim said in Blues 2018:

1 Pauliasi Manu
2 James Parsons
3 Ofa Tu'ungafasi Sione Mafileo
4 Patrick Tuipulotu Gerard Cowley-Tuioti
5 Scott Scrafton Josh Goodhue
6 Jerome Kaino Jimmy Tupou
7 Blake Gibson Kara Pryor or Dalton Papalii
8 Akira Ioane

9 Augustine Pulu (or Jonathan Ruru)
10 Bryn Gatland/Otere Black Stephen Perofeta
11 Melani Nanai Tumua Manu
12 SBW Rieko Ioane
13 Rieko Ioane Orbyn Leger
14 Matt Duffie Jordan Hyland
15 Stephen Perofeta Matt Duffie

16 Matt Moulds
17 Alex Hodgman
18 Mike Tamoaieta
19 Gerard Cowley-Tuioti
20 Dalton Papali'i/Kara Pryor
21 Manihera/Liavaa-Moala/Jimmy Tupou

22 Sam Nock
23 George Moala/TJ Faiane/Matt Vaega

It’s more interesting to compare how the Chiefs, or any other team for that matter, handle injuries during the season.

Tana’s recruitment is as poor as his selections/coaching. So when the envitable injuries occur his squad depth is exposed.

Not to mention the comparison of green squad members between the Chiefs and Blues is marked.

Yes we are having a bad run of injuries. No it’s not an excuse for Tanas results.

@crucial said in Blues v Jaguares:

I thought it may be interesting with all the injuries to compare this team to a pre-season hope for 'best XV'

@tim said in Blues 2018:

1 Pauliasi Manu
2 James Parsons
3 Ofa Tu'ungafasi Sione Mafileo
4 Patrick Tuipulotu Gerard Cowley-Tuioti
5 Scott Scrafton Josh Goodhue
6 Jerome Kaino Jimmy Tupou
7 Blake Gibson Kara Pryor or Dalton Papalii
8 Akira Ioane

9 Augustine Pulu (or Jonathan Ruru)
10 Bryn Gatland/Otere Black Stephen Perofeta
11 Melani Nanai Tumua Manu
12 SBW Rieko Ioane
13 Rieko Ioane Orbyn Leger
14 Matt Duffie Jordan Hyland
15 Stephen Perofeta Matt Duffie

16 Matt Moulds
17 Alex Hodgman
18 Mike Tamoaieta
19 Gerard Cowley-Tuioti
20 Dalton Papali'i/Kara Pryor
21 Manihera/Liavaa-Moala/Jimmy Tupou

22 Sam Nock
23 George Moala/TJ Faiane/Matt Vaega

Careful. You'll be accused of being a Counties supporter ... oh ... hang on ...

@kirwan said in Blues v Jaguares:

It’s more interesting to compare how the Chiefs, or any other team for that matter, handle injuries during the season.

Actually that would be a worthwhile exercise.

Especially in specific positions where we're at 3rd or 4th choice starting (prop).

@booboo said in Blues v Jaguares:

@kirwan said in Blues v Jaguares:

It’s more interesting to compare how the Chiefs, or any other team for that matter, handle injuries during the season.

Actually that would be a worthwhile exercise.

Especially in specific positions where we're at 3rd or 4th choice starting (prop).

I remember the commentary mentioning one of the wings too. It was very noticeable that he was up to speed on attack patterns being used and didn’t look “lost” or play like an individual like a new player in the Blues.

That’s down to coaching.

The newspaper is saying Tupou injured his knee at training yesterday so Papali'i will start at 6.

@bovidae said in Blues v Jaguares:

The newspaper is saying Tupou injured his knee at training yesterday so Papali'i will start at 6.

So I think this is the side with the late Tupou injury:

1 Pauliasi Manu, 2 James Parsons (c), 3 Sione Mafileo, 4 Gerard Cowley-Tuioti, 5 Josh Goodhue, 6 Jimmy Tupou Dalton Papalii, 7 Kara Pryor or Dalton Papalii, 8 Akira Ioane; 9 Jonathan Ruru, 10 Stephen Perofeta, 11 Tumua Manu, 12 Rieko Ioane, 13 Orbyn Leger, 14 Jordan Hyland,15 Matt Duffie
Reserves: 16 Leni Apisai, 17 Ross Wright, 18 Mike Tamoaieta, 19 Ben Nee-Nee, 20 Lyndon Dunshea, 21 Augustine Pulu, 22 Dan Kirkpatrick, 23 Terrence Hepetema

It's a better backrow without Tupou

@bovidae yep and the Blues bench is confirmed as

Apisai, Wright, Tamoaieta, Neenee, Dunshea, Pulu, Kirkpatrick, Hepetema.

@kiwimurph MOulds injured again or dropped for Apisai???

Bet Tamati Tua is pissed he hurt himself so early in this season!

I assume Kirkpatrick was picked ahead of Gatland as he could play 2nd 5 if needed (not very well, of course).

@taniwharugby said in Blues v Jaguares:

MOulds injured again or dropped for Apisai???

Impossible to tell because the information coming out of the Blues is so shit. Two players listed as unavailable are in the 23

Blues team release yesterday indicated Apisai got selected on form after a strong game for Blues A last week.

@kiwimurph guess it shouldnt surprise, but a guy that has been found wanting everytime he has played for the 'top' team, gets promoted over a guy who has come back from injury and had SFA time off the bench and not really done alot wrong...

amusingly, not good enough for the bench, Moulds has not even been released for club footy.

@kirwan Listened John Hart on radio sport this morning,one thing that he said which I said from the time this squad was announced in November 2017 it was easily the weakest of the 5 squads based on the limited amount of movement of the other four franchises.
Only the Chiefs with the loss of Aaron Cruden,James Lowes and Micheal Leitch were gonna be hit the hardest but is been a credit to them despite losing 6 x props and several others they have battled away manfully.
But at least despite the injures,they have retained senior players like Cane,Retallick,Messiam and Ngatai.

To me that’s one of the fundamentals where the Blues have totally missed the boat in terms of their selections..once the leadership group got injured,Pulu,Kaino and SBW and I will also add Blake Gibson into that group the wheels have slowly fallen off.
Add in the injuries to what already not the strongest squad of the five,and this is what you get.

Looking at the attrition rate in this competition,I believe it’s doubly important to select your squad with injuries in mind especially if your are thin on leadership and to me,this is one of the biggest failings of this coaching panel.
I asked the question of high performance manager Tony Hanks late last year when Stephen Luatua and Charlie Famauina left the Blues,was there a train of thought to chase 2 like for like players with experience,I even threw a couple names out there like a Blade Thomson or a Michell Graham..?;not totally sure about Graham,I think he maybe a loose head..
Hanks just said,you will be surprised with what we will dish up with squad..!,Really..!,even I could see they were thin if injuries occurred.

So I guess...SHOULD WE REALLY BE THAT SURPRISED AT WHATS HAPPENING ...?,I for one am not.

@steven-harris said in Blues v Jaguares:

@kirwan Listened John Hart on radio sport this morning,one thing that he said which I said from the time this squad was announced in November 2017 it was easily the weakest of the 5 squads based on the limited amount of movement of the other four franchises.
Only the Chiefs with the loss of Aaron Cruden,James Lowes and Micheal Leitch were gonna be hit the hardest but is been a credit to them despite losing 6 x props and several others they have battled away manfully.
But at least despite the injures,they have retained senior players like Cane,Retallick,Messiam and Ngatai.

To me that’s one of the fundamentals where the Blues have totally missed the boat in terms of their selections..once the leadership group got injured,Pulu,Kaino and SBW and I will also add Blake Gibson into that group the wheels have slowly fallen off.
Add in the injuries to what already not the strongest squad of the five,and this is what you get.

Looking at the attrition rate in this competition,I believe it’s doubly important to select your squad with injuries in mind especially if your are thin on leadership and to me,this is one of the biggest failings of this coaching panel.
I asked the question of high performance manager Tony Hanks late last year when Stephen Luatua and Charlie Famauina left the Blues,was there a train of thought to chase 2 like for like players with experience,I even threw a couple names out there like a Blade Thomson or a Michell Graham..?;not totally sure about Graham,I think he maybe a loose head..
Hanks just said,you will be surprised with what we will dish up with squad..!,Really..!,even I could see they were thin if injuries occurred.

So I guess...SHOULD WE REALLY BE THAT SURPRISED AT WHATS HAPPENING ...?,I for one am not.

Despite the accusations above, my post was not to make excuses for performance. It was an exercise to see the injury effect on the makeup of the team and raise discussion on that.
Thanks @Steven-Harris, your post did just that.
To me the big issue (as far as team makeup goes) is that the leadership required to drag this franchise up has not been available or effective and that the injuries have removed any spine the team could develop. There has been almost zero ability to select a consistent 2,4,8,9,10,15 or even segments of that. That will hurt a team badly.
By the way, that is a reason, not an excuse.
For those comparisons with the Chiefs see the Chiefs thread where I have compared a pre-season selection in the same way. The massive difference is that the Chiefs have been able to rely on some world class experienced leaders to oull them through games. Cane, Messam, BBBR have, when required, stepped up hugely to create surprise wins. The Blues (apart from an injured Kaino and possibly an injured SBW) have really suffered from not having that type of player. Unfortunately you cant recruit that type, you have to grow them.

@crucial said in Blues v Jaguares:

my post was not to make excuses for performance

Haha bullshit

@crucial not sure the leadership is upto it even if all were on board.

@taniwharugby said in Blues v Jaguares:

@crucial not sure the leadership is upto it even if all were on board.

That's what I said. There was only ever going to be a fit and firing Kaino (and maybe SBW) that would be in the same league as Cane, Messam and BBBR

Just for illustration, if Joe Schmidt went back he'd rebuild the Blues from the ground up. Lot's of more obvious factors at play, as commented on, but for me the core is rotten.

@duluth said in Blues v Jaguares:

@crucial said in Blues v Jaguares:

my post was not to make excuses for performance

Haha bullshit

Whatever. I deliberately didn't make comment when I posted the list as I thought it would divert any sensible discussion straight to criticising my opinion instead. But hey, if you think you know what was in my mind when posting better than I do, go ahead and fire a blank

@crucial

Post after post making excuses for Umaga. You have been mocked plenty of times for your knight in shining armour act.

Now you have a genius plan. Say "I'm not making excuses" before making excuses. It's funny.

@duluth said in Blues v Jaguares:

@crucial

Post after post making excuses for Umaga. You have been mocked plenty of times for your knight in shinging armour act.

Now you have a genius plan. Say "I'm not making excuses" before making excuses. It's funny.

Post after post? I simply explained my view (quite some time ago) then left it alone. Search the recent match threads and your own 'Win %' thread for my 'knighting' if you wish.
Apparently I'm not allowed a view on the problem at the Blues which is why I didn't make comment on that team post. Instead I get a view attributed to me that I didn't even make.
Show me the 'excuses made for Tana'. Previously, I have clearly stated my reasoning on why I think 'dump the coach' is not the best route and am happy for you all to have a differing view on that. I have even admitted a personal bias. Have I mocked anyone else's views on the matter in return?
I can't help it if you aren't going to engage fairly or offer constructive opinion.

@crucial said in Blues v Jaguares:

Apparently I'm not allowed a view

Haha

@steven-harris said in Blues v Jaguares:

Listened John Hart on radio sport this morning,one thing that he said which I said from the time this squad was announced in November 2017 it was easily the weakest of the 5 squads based on the limited amount of movement of the other four franchises.

I've been saying this for ages, we always have one shit squad, it's often been the Chiefs in the past, the Highlanders in more recent years, and the Blues for the past few years.

However, I also said at the start of this season that I expected to see improvement (even if they don't magically make the finals) and that clearly isn't happening.

Really shitty weather. This could be a tiny crowd.

Anyone bold enough to make a match prediction? Not me. I honestly would not be surprised if either team thrashed the other one.

@duluth You should definitely get down to the TAB then, because the Jags are paying $3.15!

Blues are paying $1.35.

I should as well, because I'm not sure about this one either, but I tend to think the Jaguares look a better team on paper and they're on a bit of a roll. But they're on the road and at Eden Park....

@nepia can’t argue you with you,those first 2 x games were winnable games and the injury toll was not what it is at the minute.

@chris-b said in Blues v Jaguares:

@duluth You should definitely get down to the TAB then, because the Jags are paying $3.15!

Blues are paying $1.35.

I should as well, because I'm not sure about this one either, but I tend to think the Jaguares look a better team on paper and they're on a bit of a roll. But they're on the road and at Eden Park....

My thoughts exactly. Even the points start at Blues +8.5 is pretty good value.

@Chris-B @Milk

I agree the Blues are favourites.

Of course the Blues have been bookies favourites in 3 games this year where they've gone on to spectacularly shit the bed. Neither of these teams are reliable

On that 8.5 point head start. There's a lot of wind out there and there's more rain expected. So that's a higher line than it appears

Ahh crap, TJ is back commentating.

Rain and wind have been awful today. Conditions will be shit.

Push that yellow button on the remote.

@bovidae said in Blues v Jaguares:

Push that yellow button on the remote.

Always forget that thanks!

@bovidae said in Blues v Jaguares:

Push that yellow button on the remote.

Fuck, does nothing on my fox remote :frowning_face:

Ali Williams did a good job of defending supercoach in the build up...

@donsteppa said in Blues v Jaguares:

Ali Williams did a good job of defending supercoach in the build up...

And was rightly mocked for it.

Pryor lucky not to be pinged for not letting him up on the chase, but PArsons gets pinged anyway