Congrats to the Crusaders on a well-deserved victory.
Now, if they could just fix up the comp so it wasn't NZ teams smashing the fuck out of each other again and again and injuring half the players.
Super Rugby Final 2018
Match thread
@chris-b said in Super Rugby Final 2018:
@cyclops said in Super Rugby Final 2018:
Mounga is going from strength to strength. End of year tour will be key for him I think, he'll get at least one start there and that will be the game he needs to crush if he wants to get past Barrett and dmc before the rwc.
Would be pretty conservative of Shag not to give Richie a fair bit of time in the Rugby Championship. Not necessarily in the first Bled, but he's really played the house down and clearly ready to take the chance - should get at least one start in TRC and several goes from the bench. Pretty clear MoM in this game.
Pretty unusual game. Lions with huge domination of territory and possession, but rarely looked like scoring. Crusaders with brutal defence and very efficient in converting their limited chances.
Credit to the Lions for denying the Crusaders opportunities but, to be honest, it never felt like they were likely to win. Their lineout maul that was expected to be a big weapon was just smashed. Defence was pretty much awesome aside from Todd's miss.
Well done, Razor.
Barring injury I figure Barrett and Dmc get all the starts. Mounga will get a decent amount of time off the bench but it won't be until the eoyt that he gets a chance to start. He might get a start vs Argentina, but looking at shag's track record and comments about the rolls royce pack I don't think he's in a hurry to get Mounga into the starting xv.
@cyclops I reckon Richie is a good chance to get the start vs Argentina in Nelson - and then they'll go from there - if he does well he probably gets another.
EOYT - barring injury Beauden should get the starts vs England and Ireland - which leaves Japan and Italy, which isn't much of a test for Richie.
@bones said in Super Rugby Final 2018:
@chris-b although when Sopoaga was on fire they threw him a start at Newlands wasn't it?
Ellis Park.
@mariner4life said in Super Rugby Final 2018:
Mounga
Daylight
Every other 10 in NZ.
Must start first test
So true, I’m out celebrating but glad I checked the fern to read this.
The lions put us under more pressure tonight than the hurricanes last week.
I’ll stick with my preseason call that the chiefs are the only team that worries me in the NZ conference. The other teams can’t compete up front.
@stargazer said in Super Rugby Final 2018:
Yalden's a journalist isn't he? Yet he appears to be unaware that for years NZ sides routinely lose the possession and territory stats when playing other nations.
Our good teams don't waste time on attack, so if we get the ball in space it is either a score quickly, or nothing. The champion Chiefs side of a few years back attacked largely from long-distance, and so barely spent any time in the opposition 22 the whole season. This Crusader side isn't quite that cut-throat, but they still attack instantly the moment a hole appears, rather than trying to work slowly up field. And they know the advantage of surprise (e.g. quick lineout).
On defence we tend to be patient. This Crusader side, particularly so.
So the possession statistic in particular is useless as a guide to how well a NZ team is going. Indeed if playing a Tier 1 nation and the ABs have the possession in their favour, then they're struggling, because it means the attack isn't working.
Territory isn't much use if the opposition doesn't give away penalties, or if you don't shoot for goal when you do get them.
You'd expect a professional to have spotted that by now, rather than be astounded by it.
Next month he'll be surprised when he sees a rugby team scores more points into a wind.
@fcc said in Super Rugby Final 2018:
@sammyc how good was Bedwell-Curtis, underrated and stood up all year. Just a trademark of razor’s coaching, a young bloke given a shot and stands up.
Bloody good, so nice to see a guy like him earn a contract through hard work and toughness. I have my doubts he’d be given the same opportunity at other teams. Probably wouldn’t pass the bench press test or something.
Didn’t see the game but I assume Marx outplayed the entire Crusaders foward pack on his own?
@machpants yep they were banging on about Kwagga and Marx all week, they nullified both, Marx still muscled up and showed his power but Kwagga may as well have not been there.
Not the first time there have been games where the opposition 7 was so good he was hyped up before the game only to be played out of the game.
@taniwharugby there was a moment right at the start where Todd absolutely ragdolled Smith. Kinda set the tone for the rest of the night.
At the game the best moments included nullifying the lineout drive/maul. The crowd gave them heaps every time.
From Stuff: “"We tried the peel around the front, we tried one towards the back, we went straight, pretty much did everything that we could and they were just very good. There is nothing else you can say," a deflated Whiteley said.
@taniwharugby said in Super Rugby Final 2018:
@machpants yep they were banging on about Kwagga and Marx all week, they nullified both, Marx still muscled up and showed his power but Kwagga may as well have not been there.
Not the first time there have been games where the opposition 7 was so good he was hyped up before the game only to be played out of the game.
Not sure what the final stats were, but at one point the turnover count was 9-0 in favour of the crusaders. Thought that was pretty incredible given Marx's ability over the ball was meant to be a strength.
@sammyc said in Super Rugby Final 2018:
@fcc said in Super Rugby Final 2018:
@sammyc how good was Bedwell-Curtis, underrated and stood up all year. Just a trademark of razor’s coaching, a young bloke given a shot and stands up.
Bloody good, so nice to see a guy like him earn a contract through hard work and toughness. I have my doubts he’d be given the same opportunity at other teams. Probably wouldn’t pass the bench press test or something.
What a weird comment, the Chiefs for (one) example have often brought in little heralded players who have had good seasons.
@nta said in Super Rugby Final 2018:
Watched first 25 minutes. Fuck the Lions are dumb
Not much tactical variation in their game. Works fine until you come against a better forward pack, with greater patience (who also have a great No10 and smooth backline!)
@nepia said in Super Rugby Final 2018:
@sammyc said in Super Rugby Final 2018:
@fcc said in Super Rugby Final 2018:
@sammyc how good was Bedwell-Curtis, underrated and stood up all year. Just a trademark of razor’s coaching, a young bloke given a shot and stands up.
Bloody good, so nice to see a guy like him earn a contract through hard work and toughness. I have my doubts he’d be given the same opportunity at other teams. Probably wouldn’t pass the bench press test or something.
What a weird comment, the Chiefs for (one) example have often brought in little heralded players who have had good seasons.
Probably the alcohol talking, look at the time I posted. I was probably talking about the blues anyway where I have no doubts my comment applies.
@machpants more the "ja Bru we'll run the same lineout play 3 times in a row. No WAY will they drive us back like the first 2 times!"
@nta said in Super Rugby Final 2018:
@machpants more the "ja Bru we'll run the same lineout play 3 times in a row. No WAY will they drive us back like the first 2 times!"
@sammyc I would say that the Blues are full of overhyped players. Suggest they would be better of with less guys that plays like stars and more guys that just play for the team. The great thing you see with Crusaders is how hard they work to stay in a team pattern and to get off the ground to get back for their mates. I laughed when I saw the ratings for players in Stuff. They rate based on hero moments. Glad we don’t select the ABs on that.
@kev said in Super Rugby Final 2018:
@sammyc I would say that the Blues are full of overhyped players. Suggest they would be better of with less guys that plays like stars and more guys that just play for the team. The great thing you see with Crusaders is how hard they work to stay in a team pattern and to get off the ground to get back for their mates. I laughed when I saw the ratings for players in Stuff. They rate based on hero moments. Glad we don’t select the ABs on that.
The ratings were ridiculous... we had a good laugh at them at the bar last night
@fcc said in Super Rugby Final 2018:
@sammyc how good was Bedwell-Curtis, underrated and stood up all year. Just a trademark of razor’s coaching, a young bloke given a shot and stands up.
Some of these young blokes like Mo’unga and bridge don’t know how to lose
Bedwell Curtis is 27 wouldn't call him young but played awesome either way.
@kev said in Super Rugby Final 2018:
@sammyc I would say that the Blues are full of overhyped players. Suggest they would be better of with less guys that plays like stars and more guys that just play for the team. The great thing you see with Crusaders is how hard they work to stay in a team pattern and to get off the ground to get back for their mates. I laughed when I saw the ratings for players in Stuff. They rate based on hero moments. Glad we don’t select the ABs on that.
That is simply not true, the Blues have the worst NZ squad with hardly any star players - they're easy to pick out, the Ioane brothers, a broken SBW and an aging Kaino. Not that many of the Blues players are overhyped, it's laughable to suggest that.
Having a shit squad doesn't automatically mean players don't play for the team.
When you have Moody, Crockett, Taylor, Whitelock, Barrett, Tood, Read etc in your team it's a lot easier to stick to a pattern than when you have who ever the fudge make up the Blues pack outside of Ofa and their loose forwards.
@nepia said in Super Rugby Final 2018:
@kev said in Super Rugby Final 2018:
@sammyc I would say that the Blues are full of overhyped players. Suggest they would be better of with less guys that plays like stars and more guys that just play for the team. The great thing you see with Crusaders is how hard they work to stay in a team pattern and to get off the ground to get back for their mates. I laughed when I saw the ratings for players in Stuff. They rate based on hero moments. Glad we don’t select the ABs on that.
That is simply not true, the Blues have the worst NZ squad with hardly any star players - they're easy to pick out, the Ioane brothers, a broken SBW and an aging Kaino. Not that many of the Blues players are overhyped, it's laughable to suggest that.
Having a shit squad doesn't automatically mean players don't play for the team.
When you have Moody, Crockett, Taylor, Whitelock, Barrett, Tood, Read etc in your team it's a lot easier to stick to a pattern than when you have who ever the fudge make up the Blues pack outside of Ofa and their loose forwards.
Hmm, I read @kev 's post literally "guys that play like stars" instead of "guys that just play for the team". There is a point in that. One of the major problems of the Blues over the years, IMHO, is that they play like a group of individuals, instead of playing like team players. It just doesn't seem to gel for some reason. Tana moving players out of position obviously doesn't help, but there does seem to be something off in the team dynamic as well. This has been discussed in several threads.
And do the Blues really have "hardly any star players"? Even if true, the Blues do have several players of whom it was thought they were going to be stars (had star player potential), but that hasn't materialised or it has faded away. One extreme example is Perofeta, who was hyped up by many Blues fans and media as the third ABs 10 instead of Mo'unga last year. Totally crazy, of course, also a year ago, but he hasn't lived up to last year's hype. Blame Tana if you like, and he may not be a star (yet), but he was definitely overhyped. It (becoming a star) may still happen though, with better coaching and a change of culture.
And where were the guys who have in the ABs environment? Weren't they "stars" (at least at SR level, enough to warrant a AB call-up) at some point? Duffie got enough game time, but has thoroughly disappointed. Pat T , same story. Kaino was a shadow of his former self. Parsons has played for the ABs, also disappointed big time. Pauliasi Manu, Augie Pulu. Also guys who didn't live up to their history.
I thoroughly hope the new assistant coaches can bring positive change, so that players like Black, Perofeta, Clarke, Plummer etc can develop into stars - at least at SR level - and are no longer being wasted and feeling the need to move elsewhere like Naholo, Fekitoa, etc.
@nepia said in Super Rugby Final 2018:
@kev said in Super Rugby Final 2018:
@sammyc I would say that the Blues are full of overhyped players. Suggest they would be better of with less guys that plays like stars and more guys that just play for the team. The great thing you see with Crusaders is how hard they work to stay in a team pattern and to get off the ground to get back for their mates. I laughed when I saw the ratings for players in Stuff. They rate based on hero moments. Glad we don’t select the ABs on that.
That is simply not true, the Blues have the worst NZ squad with hardly any star players - they're easy to pick out, the Ioane brothers, a broken SBW and an aging Kaino. Not that many of the Blues players are overhyped, it's laughable to suggest that.
Having a shit squad doesn't automatically mean players don't play for the team.
When you have Moody, Crockett, Taylor, Whitelock, Barrett, Tood, Read etc in your team it's a lot easier to stick to a pattern than when you have who ever the fudge make up the Blues pack outside of Ofa and their loose forwards.
I feel like for about the last 5 years preseason talk around the blues has always been about how much better their squad is looking and that this will be the year things turn around.
@stargazer said in Super Rugby Final 2018:
@nepia said in Super Rugby Final 2018:
@kev said in Super Rugby Final 2018:
@sammyc I would say that the Blues are full of overhyped players. Suggest they would be better of with less guys that plays like stars and more guys that just play for the team. The great thing you see with Crusaders is how hard they work to stay in a team pattern and to get off the ground to get back for their mates. I laughed when I saw the ratings for players in Stuff. They rate based on hero moments. Glad we don’t select the ABs on that.
That is simply not true, the Blues have the worst NZ squad with hardly any star players - they're easy to pick out, the Ioane brothers, a broken SBW and an aging Kaino. Not that many of the Blues players are overhyped, it's laughable to suggest that.
Having a shit squad doesn't automatically mean players don't play for the team.
When you have Moody, Crockett, Taylor, Whitelock, Barrett, Tood, Read etc in your team it's a lot easier to stick to a pattern than when you have who ever the fudge make up the Blues pack outside of Ofa and their loose forwards.
Hmm, I read @kev 's post literally "guys that play like stars" instead of "guys that just play for the team". There is a point in that. One of the major problems of the Blues over the years, IMHO, is that they play like a group of individuals, instead of playing like team players. It just doesn't seem to gel for some reason. Tana moving players out of position obviously doesn't help, but there does seem to be something off in the team dynamic as well. This has been discussed in several threads.
And do the Blues really have "hardly any star players"? Even if true, the Blues do have several players of whom it was thought they were going to be stars (had star player potential), but that hasn't materialised or it has faded away. One extreme example is Perofeta, who was hyped up by many Blues fans and media as the third ABs 10 instead of Mo'unga last year. Totally crazy, of course, also a year ago, but he hasn't lived up to last year's hype. Blame Tana if you like, and he may not be a star (yet), but he was definitely overhyped. It (becoming a star) may still happen though, with better coaching and a change of culture.
And where were the guys who have in the ABs environment? Weren't they "stars" (at least at SR level, enough to warrant a AB call-up) at some point? Duffie got enough game time, but has thoroughly disappointed. Pat T , same story. Kaino was a shadow of his former self. Parsons has played for the ABs, also disappointed big time. Pauliasi Manu, Augie Pulu. Also guys who didn't live up to their history.
I thoroughly hope the new assistant coaches can bring positive change, so that players like Black, Perofeta, Clarke, Plummer etc can develop into stars - at least at SR level - and are no longer being wasted and feeling the need to move elsewhere like Naholo, Fekitoa, etc.
Three seasons ago people were hyping Blake Gibson up a lot as well. The Blues have had lots of good young players coming through who haven't really developed.
@hydro11 said in Super Rugby Final 2018
Three seasons ago people were hyping Blake Gibson up a lot as well. The Blues have had lots of good young players coming through who haven't really developed.
Weird comment. He was called up to the AB camp last year. This year he only played 3 games because he was injured.
@duluth said in Super Rugby Final 2018:
@hydro11 said in Super Rugby Final 2018
Three seasons ago people were hyping Blake Gibson up a lot as well. The Blues have had lots of good young players coming through who haven't really developed.
Weird comment. He was called up to the AB camp last year. This year he only played 3 games because he was injured.
If anything the Blues need more players like Blake Gibson (well, apart from the tendancy to get injured all the time) - very consistent player.
@tim said in Super Rugby Final 2018:
@duluth Nothing brings out groundless, stupid rugby like Blues’ coaches.
Fixed
@stargazer Barely any of those you mentioned are 'stars'. As an one example, Perofeta has never been as hyped up as Mo'unga (and will likely never be as good as Mo'unga going on this years evidence), but even then Perofeta isn't a star, he's just a promising 2nd number 10 for the Blues.
Also, why do you re-bring up Fekitoa when even he admitted he balls'd up his first opportunity at the Blues.
You can't compare Parsons with Codie Taylor just because Parsons has a couple of caps, and Pat T has been a shadow of his former self for reason's that aren't really the Blues fault. Meanwhile the Crusaders pack have two long term AB looseheads, the current starting hooker, a long term tighthead, and three test locks. Just having an AB cap or two is not really comparative.