@pukunui said in Blues v Bulls:

Why the fuck was Plummer kicking for the win? If there is one thing Black has on Plummer it is goal kicking. Dumb.

I actually feel for the kid. He was trying to step up and take responsibility rather than throw the onus back onto his forwards.
Leadership should have stepped in and taken that responsibility off him considering he was hacking the ball. When the ball takes those harsh late turns you know that the kicker isn't striking sweetly or following through properly.
As a former kicker himself Rangi should have known that and sent the message down.

@kev problem is, such limited minutes to show his wares this season (when you consider his form prior to those 2 games) even if he has a blinder for Northland...guess this is the drawback of signing kids out of school rather than letting them develop and mature against the wiley veterans in club footy (who are no longer there either)

Hindsight is all well and good regarding Plummer being the one to take the shot but he'd been kicking all night and actually nailed the conversion from the same side of the field earlier.

Otere coming in cold to take the kick i'm not sure was the answer.

@Crucial Yep, agree totally. Plummer is young and green, but he has the vision and committment. Leadership was key in those last few minutes and was a contributing factor in having the win snatched from them. Patty T will hopefully learn a lot from that.
Just think the pack needs to play more collectively, and perhaps practice their wet-weather ball-handling skills.

@Crucial I had no problem with him going for points. Our season's virtually over anyway and the only way for him to get better in situations like these are by continuing to go for it. If you have a chance to win a game with a penalty kick ou always go for it imo.

Who's to say that we wouldn't have butchered the lineout anyway?

@KiwiMurph Yup, hindsight is a wonderful thing. He'd be a hero if he managed to nail the kick but such is life.

So what halfback have the Blues brought in as 3rd since Nock is out?

Might as well give him a run.

A team with fresher players on the field would probably be less likely to make as many handling errors, and could probably play to a pattern better.

My biggest criticism of MacDonald is his reluctance to use the bench, and more so his lack of squad management.

@KiwiMurph Lewis Gjaltema?

Of course if Blake Gibson could hold on to the ball.....

I think you are all making excuses for Plummer.
Thought he had a reasonable game general play wise.
To be fair Eden Park is his home ground and I would imagine he gets to practice on this ground, his last kick had the yips about it.
Come the hour, come the man..can think of many examples of players who have stepped up and nailed kicks...a very young Josh Ioane nailing a penalty from a wide angle in the Mitre 10 cup semi final last year..
It’s moments like these that define a player moving forward.

@Steven-Harris Plummer has done it before too. His wide conversion in the rain tied the Mitre 10 Cup final allowing it to go to overtime.

@KiwiMurph which makes his 2 misses against the Saders in the first game of the season and let’s face it very kickable shots those 2 ,add in tonight’s miss even more unacceptable...has he got what it takes at super rugby level in terms of temperament when put in a clutch situation..?

Forgot to mention 55% kicking success rate..unacceptable in my book.

@Tim said in Blues v Bulls:

A team with fresher players on the field would probably be less likely to make as many handling errors, and could probably play to a pattern better.

My biggest criticism of MacDonald is his reluctance to use the bench, and more so his lack of squad management.

This.

@Steven-Harris said in Blues v Bulls:

@KiwiMurph which makes his 2 misses against the Saders in the first game of the season and let’s face it very kickable shots those 2 ,add in tonight’s miss even more unacceptable...has he got what it takes at super rugby level in terms of temperament when put in a clutch situation..?

Forgot to mention 55% kicking success rate..unacceptable in my book.

2 misses against the 2 time defending champions in his Super Rugby debut?

Ok?

He's a 20 year old rookie thrust into starting.

FFS can we just let the kid settle for a season before throwing him to the wolves.

End of the day, I expect Black or Plummer to be able to step up and kick that goal. If you have to go for the lineout because you can't rely on your ten, that isn't good. If you can't kick that goal reliably, you should be as good as Beauden Barrett.

@hydro11 Curwin Bosh who is only 22 has had kicking success rate around the mid eighties for the last 3 seasons ..If Plummer is to define himself as a top class pivot ,he needs to be much better than 55%..Perofeta as a 20 year old was copping the same criticism for inconsistent goal kicking..regardless of age ,if goal kicking is part of your repertoire, make it count..
I rest my case...

@Steven-Harris said in Blues v Bulls:

@hydro11 Curwin Bosh who is only 22 has had kicking success rate around the mid eighties for the last 3 seasons ..If Plummer is to define himself as a top class pivot ,he needs to be much better than 55%..Perofeta as a 20 year old was copping the same criticism for inconsistent goal kicking..regardless of age ,if goal kicking is part of your repertoire, make it count..
I rest my case...

I don't really understand why a 25 year old should be a better goal kicker than a 20 year old. Plummer will be working a lot on his goal kicking I'm sure. I would have expected a talented young first-five to have done a lot of practice by the time he gets to 20. Hopefully Plummer gets the best coaches in the country and fixes whatever technical issue he has. I do expect a young player to have work ons but I'm just not convinced that goal kicking should be one of them.

Curwin Bosch debuted for the Sharks in 2016....so he's now in his 4th year....that's a fair comparison to a rookie.....

@KiwiMurph said in Blues v Bulls:

Curwin Bosch debuted for the Sharks in 2016....so he's now in his 4th year....that's a fair comparison to a rookie.....

What did he kick in his first season?

Wading through the thread late.

My two cents before commenting on other comments:

1. Blues blew that
2. Shame Plummer missed that last kick. He'll be remembered for that but he is growing on me generally.
3. Ruru scored that but TMO correct in his ruling not over ruling the on field decision
4. Crusaders fans will be pissed off for that Bulls try ... ... absolutely not forward but carbon fucking copy of Ennor's pass to Reece.
5. Fraser was awful, particularly early on. Can't remember specifics apart from the off side off the knock on from the kick off. How. Fucking. Obvious. Was. It?
6. And kudos to the 10-14 guys who picked up the pattern of the Saffas forcing a limb or two into the tackle to slow the ball down. They do it so well. See point above about Fraser being awful.
7. Blake Gibson. Why?

Other stuffs follows as I read the thread ...

@Gunner said in Blues v Bulls:

Clever slowing the ruck ball down a few phases ago by the bulls player.
Pretended to dive back over to his own side of the ruck but didn’t go far enough and left his knees over the ball, perfectly slowing it down.
Wake up ref!

Cynical. Clever coz they get away with it

@KiwiMurph said in Blues v Bulls:

Can we drag Ruru? FFS!

Oh yeah. They've now got s couple of 10s who can do the job ... find a couple of 9s

@Stockcar86 said in Blues v Bulls:

Good to see Robinson using his boots to ruck the yarpie out of the way of that ruck

This!

@African-Monkey said in Blues v Bulls:

@Stargazer Thought it left the hands backwards myself before floating forward. Game on.

There were posts by culturally cringey Kiwis that suggested we'd whinge about exactly this scenario post Crusaders v Stormers.

Seems we're not.

Who ever you are give your self an upper cut you toss pot. No one (that I have seen so far) is complaining about a legitimate pass/try.

@booboo said in Blues v Bulls:

... find a couple of 9s

Or one decent one?

Re Akira and playing too many minutes.

I don't get that.

How many of you guys wanted to spend any time on the sideline?

The more rugby the better IMO.

Personally I think it's the way they're trying to use him.

Tell him run straight, run hard. Do it lots.

@Gunner said in Blues v Bulls:

The shit the Bulls get away with at the ruck....

This

@Canes4life said in Blues v Bulls:

Bring back Rupeni!

Dies he play half back?

@Crucial said in Blues v Bulls:

@pukunui said in Blues v Bulls:

Why the fuck was Plummer kicking for the win? If there is one thing Black has on Plummer it is goal kicking. Dumb.

I actually feel for the kid. He was trying to step up and take responsibility rather than throw the onus back onto his forwards.
Leadership should have stepped in and taken that responsibility off him considering he was hacking the ball. When the ball takes those harsh late turns you know that the kicker isn't striking sweetly or following through properly.
As a former kicker himself Rangi should have known that and sent the message down.

Or he's kicking into a strong westerly wind ...?

Westerly is the predominant wind in Ak and that was right across the teeth of that breeze. In retrospect it was a near impossible kick. Probably should have nudged to the corner and had another crack.

@booboo said in Blues v Bulls:

@Crucial said in Blues v Bulls:

@pukunui said in Blues v Bulls:

Why the fuck was Plummer kicking for the win? If there is one thing Black has on Plummer it is goal kicking. Dumb.

I actually feel for the kid. He was trying to step up and take responsibility rather than throw the onus back onto his forwards.
Leadership should have stepped in and taken that responsibility off him considering he was hacking the ball. When the ball takes those harsh late turns you know that the kicker isn't striking sweetly or following through properly.
As a former kicker himself Rangi should have known that and sent the message down.

Or he's kicking into a strong westerly wind ...?

Westerly is the predominant wind in Ak and that was right across the teeth of that breeze. In retrospect it was a near impossible kick. Probably should have nudged to the corner and had another crack.

Yeah, could be that his style is affected more by the wind eg end on end kicks don't get swerved as much as spiralling ones when kicking directly into wind but get pushed by side winds
As I said, good on him for stepping up but their didn't seem to be a lot of leadership going on at the time to assess the situation.

@ACT-Crusader

Plummer I can see being a #12 Good frame & kicking game

But Blues are god awful at #9 & #10

If they had a good set of halfbacks the would be a playoff team

Blues decision making leaves alot to be desired

I'd go as far and state they were DUMB knocking the ball on in 1st half trying to play in their own 22, not kicking alot more etc

Blue season is officially over & I don't see much to build on in 2020 apart from Back 3, Front row & Back row

Bulls were okay & should make the Top 8

But they'll get blown out in QF by Crusaders/Jaguares/Brumbies/Hurricanes

But if they made the playoffs the Blues fans could all go 'look we finally made the playoffs after all those years of shit coaches'
Brainless players have killed off many a coach (as Rangi is now discovering)

@KiwiMurph Yeah you're right. Richie Mo'unga missed some crucial kicks early on in his career. The rest they say is history.

Why are we still debating the last kick? Heck I don't blame the kid, for stepping up - good to see some ownership and responsibility on young shoulders.
And if the kick had gone over - then what? Short-term success but that would just be papering over the cracks we all know are there.
Decent half backs and an experienced 10 (plus a hooker that can hit a barn door) have to be Rangi's priority next season. Is Nonu staying or going? Love to have him around next season. But if not - he and SBW are getting on..... Hellfire send the scouts out now with the shopping list and a decent fistful of cash!!
They're getting there, but it ain't going to be a five minute job. This is going to take plenty of work, blood sweat and tears will be shed and there must be buy-in from every man in the squad from head coach to water boy.
Can't we get Cron in to fix the scrum issues?

Good on Plummer (56% success) for stepping up, but the only reason why Black (68%) isn’t taking that kick should be due to distance, and I’m pretty sure that I’m sure he has the legs for that kick. Statistically speaking, Black gets that kick about 7 out of 10 times; Plummer is almost flipping a coin. Plus, he doesn’t have form for kicking them under pressure either.

I find it amazing that stats and numbers have been integrated into rugby so well, yet generally speaking NZ doesn’t produce young players who are consistently high percentage goal kickers or line out throwers.

We lead the world on many areas, but that is one where, either players don’t seem to practice enough, don’t get the right kind of practice, or don’t get good enough coaching.

I’ve only a bit of rugby in NZ and over here, but I was amazed when I came here at the amount of extra time both our kickers and hookers spent on getting those jobs right. Halfback passing is another.

@Crucial said in Blues v Bulls:

But if they made the playoffs the Blues fans could all go 'look we finally made the playoffs after all those years of shit coaches'
Brainless players have killed off many a coach (as Rangi is now discovering)

Rangi has done a far better job as head coach than Tana did last year. Tana was a shit head coach. That's not to say he was the only reason. Just accept it.

So ..........1) SA's goalkickers are generally better than ours
2) Akira finally gets a rest ???

@booboo said in Blues v Bulls:

@Stockcar86 said in Blues v Bulls:

Good to see Robinson using his boots to ruck the yarpie out of the way of that ruck

This!

yes old school rucking, awesome