@MajorRage said in Lions vs Canes:

Anybody got the penalty count for the game?

SA has got such a massive problem with referee's at the moment. Two clearly dodgy incidents in this game:

1. Seconds got an AR gig. Wasn't he dropped as he was showing himself to be biased? You can't just say, oh he's not biased anymore, so he's back in. Should be permanently sacked.
   2.The high tackle pre coles try. No way in fuck that wasn't a card. The only discussion is which card should it be.

Kiwis whining about Refs in games officiated in RSA :sleeping_face: :sleeping_face:

Tackle started shoulder high & slipped up = seat belt tackle

TJ dramatic reaction was pathetic

Penalty only Not enough force to warrant a yellow card & contact was NOT initiated at head/neck area

Fifita OTOH was a textbook example of why laws were charged re. high tackles + level of force applied to these vulnerable areas

I like Plumtree but his comment re Fifita were a fucking embarrassment as well as woefully ignorant

@Jaguares4real said in Lions vs Canes:

@MajorRage said in Lions vs Canes:

Anybody got the penalty count for the game?

SA has got such a massive problem with referee's at the moment. Two clearly dodgy incidents in this game:

1. Seconds got an AR gig. Wasn't he dropped as he was showing himself to be biased? You can't just say, oh he's not biased anymore, so he's back in. Should be permanently sacked.
   2.The high tackle pre coles try. No way in fuck that wasn't a card. The only discussion is which card should it be.

Kiwis whining about Refs in games officiated in RSA :sleeping_face: :sleeping_face:

Tackle started shoulder high & slipped up = seat belt tackle

TJ dramatic reaction was pathetic

Penalty only Not enough force to warrant a yellow card & contact was NOT initiated at head/neck area

Fifita OTOH was a textbook example of why laws were charged re. high tackles + level of force applied to these vulnerable areas

I like Plumtree but his comment re Fifita were a fucking embarrassment as well as woefully ignorant

you continue to give Seconds roles, you continue to face deserves criticism.

Your analysis of the tackle is just wrong. We both know opposite teams wound have been straight Red in SA. Calling others ignorant is hypocrisy of the highest.

I look forward to the next coat hanger tackle on an SA player to see what a non dramatic reaction should look like.

No problems with Fifira sanction here, so unclear of relevance.

@Nepia said in Lions vs Canes:

@MN5 said in Lions vs Canes:

could change direction as quick as he could.....even more so than Cullen.

Now, I'm not saying you're talking out of your arse and I don't believe you, but, I would like to see some footage for comparison.

might have to get some on YouTube. Cullen always went forward though. Williams often went all over the place.

if anyone was better than Cully at that step/swerve without losing much pace it would have been Jason Robinson.

@MajorRage agree 100%. Initial contact was on the chin then slipped down to upper chest as TJ flipped. Not the biggest impact and the flipping movement made it look pretty bad at full speed. Definitely a yellow imo based on other rulings this year... and that irksome thing called the rule book!!

@MajorRage said in Lions vs Canes:

ng embarrassment as well as woefully ignoran

We'll have agree to disagree re. TJ's tackle

He should consider a career in Entertainment once he retire from rugby

Seconds is a distraction, not Lead referee nor a TMO

The SA conspiracy is just silly

My point re. Fifita was it was a clear red card yet was argued by Plum

@MN5 said in Lions vs Canes:

@Nepia said in Lions vs Canes:

@MN5 said in Lions vs Canes:

could change direction as quick as he could.....even more so than Cullen.

Now, I'm not saying you're talking out of your arse and I don't believe you, but, I would like to see some footage for comparison.

might have to get some on YouTube. Cullen always went forward though. Williams often went all over the place.

Clearly you've blocked out his try vs the Scots in 1996!

@Nepia said in Lions vs Canes:

Clearly you've blocked out his try vs the Scots in 1996!

which one

@taniwharugby said in Lions vs Canes:

@Nepia said in Lions vs Canes:

Clearly you've blocked out his try vs the Scots in 1996!

which one

Yes I was extremely torn at the beauty of them vs the fact he was doing them against my beloved Scots.

At least they ( and a shitload of rain ) shackled him much better in the next test......

I had such a man crush on Cullen. Even now when I hear him on tv I get a bit stiff.

@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Lions vs Canes:

I had such a man crush on Cullen. Even now when I hear him on tv I get a bit stiff.

I've met him briefly a couple of times. Such an unassuming guy, hard to believe he terrified defences like he did.

@MN5 said in Lions vs Canes:

@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Lions vs Canes:

I had such a man crush on Cullen. Even now when I hear him on tv I get a bit stiff.

I've met him briefly a couple of times. Such an unassuming guy, hard to believe he terrified defences like he did.

He's also quite small isn't he?

@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Lions vs Canes:

@MN5 said in Lions vs Canes:

@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Lions vs Canes:

I had such a man crush on Cullen. Even now when I hear him on tv I get a bit stiff.

I've met him briefly a couple of times. Such an unassuming guy, hard to believe he terrified defences like he did.

He's also quite small isn't he?

He's no Jonah that's for sure

@MN5 said in Lions vs Canes:

I've met him briefly a couple of times. Such an unassuming guy, hard to believe he terrified defences like he did.

To be fair I'm yet to meet an "assuming" All Black that wasn't a halfback or Ali Williams.

@Rancid-Schnitzel playing weight was about 85kg IIRC? Reputed to bench about 140kg or something?

Players have changed so much.

@taniwharugby said in Lions vs Canes:

@Rancid-Schnitzel playing weight was about 85kg IIRC? Reputed to bench about 140kg or something?

Players have changed so much.

I think only Cavubati could bench more and he's had shits bigger than Cullen.

Such an awesome player. Fark I would have loved to see a Canes backline with both him and BB. I would be like that kid off American Pie. Pity the only Barrett playing then was Smiley.

@rotated said in Lions vs Canes:

@MN5 said in Lions vs Canes:

I've met him briefly a couple of times. Such an unassuming guy, hard to believe he terrified defences like he did.

To be fair I'm yet to meet an "assuming" All Black that wasn't a halfback or Ali Williams.

Yeah that's a pretty fair call on the whole although you hear stories of such and such being a cock every now and again.

@MN5 said in Lions vs Canes:

@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Lions vs Canes:

@MN5 said in Lions vs Canes:

@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Lions vs Canes:

I had such a man crush on Cullen. Even now when I hear him on tv I get a bit stiff.

I've met him briefly a couple of times. Such an unassuming guy, hard to believe he terrified defences like he did.

He's also quite small isn't he?

He's no Jonah that's for sure

There is massive scope for a very tasteless joke there but due to my respect for the legend that was Jonah I will resist the temptation.

@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Lions vs Canes:

@taniwharugby said in Lions vs Canes:

@Rancid-Schnitzel playing weight was about 85kg IIRC? Reputed to bench about 140kg or something?

Players have changed so much.

I think only Cavubati could bench more and he's had shits bigger than Cullen.

Such an awesome player. Fark I would have loved to see a Canes backline with both him and BB. I would be like that kid off American Pie. Pity the only Barrett playing then was Smiley.

Norm Hewitt and Bull Allen could as well. Not entirely sure how accurate that is given Filo Tiatia, Alama Ieremia, Tana Umaga and various others were running around at the same time.

My mate who was a gym goer back in the day said Big Bill was repping some bar bending weights while deadlifting. Incredibly strong.

@MN5 said in Lions vs Canes:

Yeah that's a pretty fair call on the whole although you hear stories of such and such being a cock every now and again.

And to be fair also being "assuming" doesn't make you a dick by any means, just not backward in coming forward.

@rotated said in Lions vs Canes:

@MN5 said in Lions vs Canes:

Yeah that's a pretty fair call on the whole although you hear stories of such and such being a cock every now and again.

And to be fair also being "assuming" doesn't make you a dick by any means, just not backward in coming forward.

Yeah what I mean is you'd never guess he was an AB unless you knew if that makes sense.

@Jaguares4real said in Lions vs Canes:

@MajorRage said in Lions vs Canes:

ng embarrassment as well as woefully ignoran

We'll have agree to disagree re. TJ's tackle

He should consider a career in Entertainment once he retire from rugby

I don't know if I can come to that conclusion. Gotta expect a bit of one-eyedness from both sides, but that's a coat hanger tackle around the neck and a minimum yellow. Every day of the week. I can't even see how it can be seen any other way. If you take your around the shoulders argument - well, he put himself in a position such that it was 100% chance it would slip up and take him out around the neck, so I again, don't buy it.

Seconds is a distraction, not Lead referee nor a TMO

He's involved. And his statistics, compared to others, show that he's not impartial. At the very least from a PR perspective, SA referee's should drop him for at least the rest of the season otherwise it seems they are publicly backing the view that local referees which consistently create controversies due to (statistically backed) bias is fine.

The SA conspiracy is just silly

Yeah, it probably is. But some of those stats coming out for Seconds & Rasta are insane. You can't possibly look at them and come up with any other conclusion than they are reffing one team only. 10 years ago, I think 100% of this forum would agree SA produced the best refs on the planet. So this isn't an anti-SA thing. It's a fair question to ask why this has changed in such a dramatic fashion.

My point re. Fifita was it was a clear red card yet was argued by Plum

The tackle on TJ is a clear yellow+ and is argued by you. So I fail to see why you are criticizing Plum, when you are doing the same thing. I;m being consistent here as I agree with your criticism of him!

@MajorRage I hadn't seen the tackle, so dragged it out. Link bel

@Jaguares4real it's a clear yellow all day, and getting towards a red. Lions player swung around ... I'm not a fan of players going down like a sniper hit them, but I think it's pretty ugly.

I call bullshit on the criticism of TJ in the 3 seconds after he was hit by a beaten defender's clothesline.

What's he supposed to do? Immediately jump up and start yelling "accident ref!"

Anyone who gets knocked down like that at full tilt can have a bit of time on the ground. He actually behaves exactly like someone who's been downed in the manner that's obvious to all.

Poor reffing by a very experienced ref. Nothing to do with TJs actions

Looking at that gif, here's a question.

Did Perenara knock the ball on after the clothes line? Hard to see but kind of looks like it's rolling forwards when Coles picks it up.

@nzzp said in Lions vs Canes:

@MajorRage I hadn't seen the tackle, so dragged it out. Link bel

@Jaguares4real it's a clear yellow all day, and getting towards a red. Lions player swung around ... I'm not a fan of players going down like a sniper hit them, but I think it's pretty ugly.

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It’s almost like your legs being taken out from under you when someone tackles you high like that. TJ was running at a decent pace and you can tell by how his body falls that it was not only unexpected getting tackled high, but probably shocked his body as well.

I’ve been tackled high like and it took a few moments on the ground to gather myself.

Ref bottled it plain and simple.

@ACT-Crusader said in Lions vs Canes:

@nzzp said in Lions vs Canes:

@MajorRage I hadn't seen the tackle, so dragged it out. Link bel

@Jaguares4real it's a clear yellow all day, and getting towards a red. Lions player swung around ... I'm not a fan of players going down like a sniper hit them, but I think it's pretty ugly.

View image

It’s almost like your legs being taken out from under you when someone tackles you high like that. TJ was running at a decent pace and you can tell by how his body falls that it was not only unexpected getting tackled high, but probably shocked his body as well.

I’ve been tackled high like and it took a few moments on the ground to gather myself.

Ref bottled it plain and simple.

That was a terrible tackle

@Paekakboyz said in Lions vs Canes:

@MajorRage agree 100%. Initial contact was on the chin then slipped down to upper chest as TJ flipped. Not the biggest impact and the flipping movement made it look pretty bad at full speed. Definitely a yellow imo based on other rulings this year... and that irksome thing called the rule book!!

Law ... @Damo

@nzzp said in Lions vs Canes:

@MajorRage I hadn't seen the tackle, so dragged it out. Link bel

@Jaguares4real it's a clear yellow all day, and getting towards a red. Lions player swung around ... I'm not a fan of players going down like a sniper hit them, but I think it's pretty ugly.

View image

Sheesh.

Wasn't a yellow card ...

@nzzp said in Lions vs Canes:

@MajorRage I hadn't seen the tackle, so dragged it out. Link bel

@Jaguares4real it's a clear yellow all day, and getting towards a red. Lions player swung around ... I'm not a fan of players going down like a sniper hit them, but I think it's pretty ugly.

View image

I'm astonished anyone would try to claim with a straight face that's a penalty at best.

@antipodean said in Lions vs Canes:

@nzzp said in Lions vs Canes:

@MajorRage I hadn't seen the tackle, so dragged it out. Link bel

@Jaguares4real it's a clear yellow all day, and getting towards a red. Lions player swung around ... I'm not a fan of players going down like a sniper hit them, but I think it's pretty ugly.

View image

I'm astonished anyone would try to claim with a straight face that's a penalty at best.

I was trying to say the Lions player swung around the neck of TJ; for that not to be a yellow, it's got to be clearly and consistently below the shoulders. It's a pretty bad tackle, really don't know how it wasn't a yellow.

@nzzp I agree with you.

@nzzp said in Lions vs Canes:

@antipodean said in Lions vs Canes:

@nzzp said in Lions vs Canes:

@MajorRage I hadn't seen the tackle, so dragged it out. Link bel

@Jaguares4real it's a clear yellow all day, and getting towards a red. Lions player swung around ... I'm not a fan of players going down like a sniper hit them, but I think it's pretty ugly.

View image

I'm astonished anyone would try to claim with a straight face that's a penalty at best.

I was trying to say the Lions player swung around the neck of TJ; for that not to be a yellow, it's got to be clearly and consistently below the shoulders. It's a pretty bad tackle, really don't know how it wasn't a yellow.

@nzzp said in Lions vs Canes:

@antipodean said in Lions vs Canes:

@nzzp said in Lions vs Canes:

@MajorRage I hadn't seen the tackle, so dragged it out. Link bel

@Jaguares4real it's a clear yellow all day, and getting towards a red. Lions player swung around ... I'm not a fan of players going down like a sniper hit them, but I think it's pretty ugly.

View image

I'm astonished anyone would try to claim with a straight face that's a penalty at best.

I was trying to say the Lions player swung around the neck of TJ; for that not to be a yellow, it's got to be clearly and consistently below the shoulders. It's a pretty bad tackle, really don't know how it wasn't a yellow.

It wasn’t a yellow because Peyper got tangled up in his thought process. When the tackle was mentioned he was busy deciding no penalty try as the try had been scored anyway.
Completely missed the point that he should have gone back and punished the high shot as he would have in a non scoring movement.
Did the TMO say anything?

@Crucial I didn’t see it but posters above stated TMO told Peyper penalty only no card.

Hence Peyper didn’t review it. I’m sure he would have carded if he did tho. By protocol, Peyper didn’t actually mess up and kept the game going. So in my view, he’s cleared of fault.

@MajorRage said in Lions vs Canes:

@Crucial I didn’t see it but posters above stated TMO told Peyper penalty only no card.

Hence Peyper didn’t review it. I’m sure he would have carded if he did tho. By protocol, Peyper didn’t actually mess up and kept the game going. So in my view, he’s cleared of fault.

Let me think........TMO wasn’t a Staffa by any chance?

@Crucial said in Lions vs Canes:

@MajorRage said in Lions vs Canes:

@Crucial I didn’t see it but posters above stated TMO told Peyper penalty only no card.

Hence Peyper didn’t review it. I’m sure he would have carded if he did tho. By protocol, Peyper didn’t actually mess up and kept the game going. So in my view, he’s cleared of fault.

Let me think........TMO wasn’t a Staffa by any chance?

@MajorRage said in Lions vs Canes:

@Crucial I didn’t see it but posters above stated TMO told Peyper penalty only no card.

Hence Peyper didn’t review it. I’m sure he would have carded if he did tho. By protocol, Peyper didn’t actually mess up and kept the game going. So in my view, he’s cleared of fault.

He did review it. He reckoned that it was only a penalty and since a try had been scored no punishment was warranted. Iirc the TMO simply grunted his approval. Sorry dodgy af.

not quite as bad as this one, which was a Red Card when they weren't as quick to hand out cards...when oyu are running and someone makes that contact with you, pretty tough to play act getting taken out as suggested above.

@taniwharugby said in Lions vs Canes:

not quite as bad as this one, which was a Red Card when they weren't as quick to hand out cards...when oyu are running and someone makes that contact with you, pretty tough to play act getting taken out as suggested above.

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Hulk Hogan would be proud to call that his own