@Bovidae said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):

It was said on the TV news last night that 2 separate AB teams are training as preparation for the Canada and Namibia games. Hansen and co will have mapped out which players are involved in each game. I agree about resting Ardie, Whitelock is another who should be on limited minutes.

Good point @Bovidae Whitelock is another who has had a huge number of minutes this year and needs a break.

When we have three players who can easily take some minutes at lock - Tuipulotu, Barrett and Frizell.

And if BBBR can get onto the park for a pool game, all the better!!!

Fuck yes, I'm getting excited. I honestly think compared to other RWC's, we have a pretty clear way forward baring major injuries. But then our depth, well that's what separates us from the pack right!

@taniwharugby That makes sense, and the rugby journos all think most of the top XV won't play against Canada. There will have to be some players involved in both of the next 2 games, whether starting or on the bench.

Looking at the intervals between games:

SA to Canada -> 11 days
Canada to Namibia -> 4 days
Namibia to Italy -> 6 days
Italy to QF -> 7 days

Even for the team that played SA there will be 2-week gap between games. I reckon some inter-squad games might be happening again.

After the towelling Canada got at the hands of Italy, this is going to be complete demolition. They dropped a lot of ball against the Azzuri, but they could not deal with the linespeed of Italy, so they're no hope against the midweek ABs who want a crack at the big games.

Fucking tough pool for the beaver retrievers.

@Bovidae said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):

@taniwharugby That makes sense, and the rugby journos all think most of the top XV won't play against Canada. There will have to be some players involved in both of the next 2 games, whether starting or on the bench.

Looking at the intervals between games:

SA to Canada -> 11 days
Canada to Namibia -> 4 days
Namibia to Italy -> 6 days
Italy to QF -> 7 days

Even for the team that played SA there will be 2-week gap between games. I reckon some inter-squad games might be happening again.

With all due respect, I think it is the other way around, play the first team against Canada and then Italy, giving plenty of rest balanced with game time.

The 2nd string team plays against Namibia which has a much shorter turnaround.

That way the top combinations have more time for work ons.

In this scenario, Namibia unfortunately ends up being the placeholders but based on the draw and the win against the Boks, there isn't any other way IMHO

@RoninWC said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):

With all due respect, I think it is the other way around, play the first team against Canada and then Italy, giving plenty of rest balanced with game time.

The 2nd string team plays against Namibia which has a much shorter turnaround.

That way the top combinations have more time for work ons.

In this scenario, Namibia unfortunately ends up being the placeholders but based on the draw and the win against the Boks, there isn't any other way IMHO

There will be pros and cons for each option. Excluding BBBR, the likes of Ioane and Goodhue will need to play sooner rather than later. They last played in Perth on Aug 10, 7 weeks and counting.

Edit: Rieko might have played for Auckland after that - not 100% sure.

Minutes played...

Moody 50/ Tu'ungafasi 30
Coles 40/ Taylor 40
Laulala 50/ Ta'avao 30
Whitelock 80
Barrett 75
Tuipulotu 40
Savea 80
Cane 40
Read 80
Frizell 5
Smith 61 / Perenara 19
Mo'unga 66
G. C. Bridge 80
R. S. Crotty 50 / SBW 30
A. R. Lienert-Brown 80
S. L. Reece 80
B. J. Barrett 80
B Smith 14

Jordie Barrett 0
Ioane 0
Goodhue 0
Weber 0
Todd 0
Retallick 0
Coltman 0
Moli 0

Can make up the team from that if everyone gets a run in the first 2 games

@RoninWC they don't have to roll out a whole team to build combinations. I doubt we'll see the same side as SA named for any other pool matches.

@Bones IMHO, I think they do. Much like what happened in '15, keep the top team together and get them minutes without tiring them out too much.

Isn't that optimal? Surely, combinations just aren't across positions but the whole team?

@RoninWC said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):

@Bones IMHO, I think they do. Much like what happened in '15, keep the top team together and get them minutes without tiring them out too much.

Isn't that optimal? Surely, combinations just aren't across positions but the whole team?

I think there'll be periods where we see a large number of the "top team" together, as well as periods of "number 1" plays. But I can't see them wanting to show their hand too much before the quarters.

I think all of those with zero time will start except BBBR and JB.

@Crucial why not JB?

@Bones

I fall in the camp of the bestish team against Canada and Italy. Dirttrackers against Namibia on the short turnaround. You has a long break after Bok game a long break prior to that , so from here in its pretty much a game a week for the frontline. That said you may see Moli, Goodhue and Fritzelll, starting or in 23 against Canada,

@DMX I'd side with @Crucial here, I think it's one time Shag may actually follow through on what he says - there's no value to saying everyone will get a run and then not seeing it out, unless something drastic happens.

@Bones said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):

@Crucial why not JB?

Because I think Ben Smith will start at 15. He is more important to have time under the belt and confidence. JB will come on from the bench.

@Crucial said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):

@Bones said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):

@Crucial why not JB?

Because I think Ben Smith will start at 15. He is more important to have time under the belt and confidence. JB will come on from the bench.

I can see Barrett starting right wing against Namibia. There is no compelling reason to play Reece or Bridge on short rest.

Whoever is the 3rd 10 will likely get at least a 20 minute stint there at some point - could be Jordie too.

Centre combo is the interesting one. They want to give everyone a run, but they've been doing that for four years, its about time the chosen two settled down and developed a combo for at least 2 of the next 3 games.

@rotated said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):

@Crucial said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):

@Bones said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):

@Crucial why not JB?

Because I think Ben Smith will start at 15. He is more important to have time under the belt and confidence. JB will come on from the bench.

I can see Barrett starting right wing against Namibia. There is no compelling reason to play Reece or Bridge on short rest.

Whoever is the 3rd 10 will likely get at least a 20 minute stint there at some point - could be Jordie too.

Centre combo is the interesting one. They want to give everyone a run, but they've been doing that for four years, its about time the chosen two settled down and developed a combo for at least 2 of the next 3 games.

For this game I think the aim will be to start SBW and Goodhue with the aim of them getting up to speed. Crotty is the obvious reserve but he could also sub the 10 and have someone like JB go into 12.

For backs I’m thinking something like

TJP
Mounga
Rieko
SBW
Goodhue
Reece/JB
Bender

Weber
Crotty
JB/BB

@Crucial said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):

@rotated said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):

@Crucial said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):

@Bones said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):

@Crucial why not JB?

Because I think Ben Smith will start at 15. He is more important to have time under the belt and confidence. JB will come on from the bench.

I can see Barrett starting right wing against Namibia. There is no compelling reason to play Reece or Bridge on short rest.

Whoever is the 3rd 10 will likely get at least a 20 minute stint there at some point - could be Jordie too.

Centre combo is the interesting one. They want to give everyone a run, but they've been doing that for four years, its about time the chosen two settled down and developed a combo for at least 2 of the next 3 games.

For this game I think the aim will be to start SBW and Goodhue with the aim of them getting up to speed. Crotty is the obvious reserve but he could also sub the 10 and have someone like JB go into 12.

For backs I’m thinking something like

TJP
Mounga
Rieko
SBW
Reece/JB
Bender

Weber
Crotty
JB/BB

You are the anti-Cheika.

@rotated said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):

Centre combo is the interesting one. They want to give everyone a run, but they've been doing that for four years, its about time the chosen two settled down and developed a combo for at least 2 of the next 3 games.

According to Fozzie that isn't the philosophy anymore. They want an interchangeable pool of centres and see that as a strength.

@Crucial said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):

According to Fozzie that isn't the philosophy anymore. They want an interchangeable pool of centres and see that as a strength.

He has also said they know who their best centre combo is, even if the rest of us don't from the outside looking in (yet).

@Bones

I don’t know if you are referring to next game or in general, but it seems to me if you play your strongest team against Italy that’s three weeks after the Boks game, you definitely want a hit out before that but you don’t want it on a short week, so it only makes sense for bulk of first team to play this week after having had a good break, with the dirt trackers playing 4 days after that. To me after that tough first game the schedule is perfect. An opportunity to build every week and stay game ready with no short weeks for the 1st team.

Thing is that you've actually only got 8 dirt trackers - i.e. guys who didn't play the first game (and Frizell for Todd, Patty T for Retallick IMO).

So, for me, those eight guys all play both of the next two games - mixed and matched with the starting 23. And then the top 23 (as far as possible) play Italy and the play-off games.

The Canada game looks the ideal opportunity to give Jordie Barrett some match time at First Five Eight and get up to speed playing number 10 at International level.

@sparky said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):

The Canada game looks the ideal opportunity to give Jordie Barrett some match time at First Five Eight and get up to speed playing number 10 at International level.

@DMX said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):

@Bones

I don’t know if you are referring to next game or in general, but it seems to me if you play your strongest team against Italy that’s three weeks after the Boks game, you definitely want a hit out before that but you don’t want it on a short week, so it only makes sense for bulk of first team to play this week after having had a good break, with the dirt trackers playing 4 days after that. To me after that tough first game the schedule is perfect. An opportunity to build every week and stay game ready with no short weeks for the 1st team.

Well sure, if that's the way you think rugby must be done, then it wouldn't make sense. They know what their top side is (if there even is one) and also what plays/plans work when and against who pretty much. What value is there in saying everyone gets played and then not following through? I keep hearing the ABs are getting an easier quarter and also can't play more than 3 decent level games in a row - why does the top team need to play twice before hitting the finals?

@Bones said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):

if there even is one

I think that is it. There isn't a first 15 (or 23) - at this point anyway.

There will be different strategies for different opposition. Some guys will need to play more if they have been injured or out of form, others will need a break. I don't like playing guys out of position but even that might have to happen when you are only allowed a squad of 31 and have a couple of easier games.

Team I'd pick:

Moli, Coltman, Laulala, Whitelock, Tuipulutu, Frizell, Todd, Read (c), Weber, J Barrett, Ioane, SBW, Goodhue, Reece, B.Smith
Bench: Taylor, Ofa T, Ta'avao, S. Barrett, Cane, TJP, Crotty, B.Barrett.

@sparky said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):

Team I'd pick:

Moli, Coltman, Laulala, Whitelock, Tuipulutu, Frizell, Todd, Read (c), Weber, J Barrett, Ioane, SBW, Goodhue, Reece, B.Smith
Bench: Taylor, Ofa T, Ta'avao, S. Barrett, Cane, TJP, Crotty, B.Barrett.

I’d start one of B. Barrett or Mo’unga. Jordie can play wing and cover 1st 5.

Can Frizell play no8? If so I’d play him there and give Cane a start in the blindside with Todd at openside. Cane had a short run against the Boks.

@Crucial said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):

@rotated said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):

Centre combo is the interesting one. They want to give everyone a run, but they've been doing that for four years, its about time the chosen two settled down and developed a combo for at least 2 of the next 3 games.

According to Fozzie that isn't the philosophy anymore. They want an interchangeable pool of centres and see that as a strength.

Ah yes, the Black Caps strategy. We don't want a long term pair of test openers instead an interchangeable pool of 5-10 guys on a conveyor belt is much better.

@Bones

Agree to disagree , everyone will play in my scenario, with only Moli , Fritzell and Goodhue needing the opportunity to show form and/or fitness to force/remain in top 23. Also can imagine TJ needing to play at 10 against Namibia so you may need Weber on the bench against Canada and starting against Namibia. Let’s see what he actually does.

@DMX but how do you give everyone a run and play your top team in the first two games?

I'll leave this here ...

@booboo said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):

I'll leave this here ...

Likely?
It’s an option for sure but I don’t think it’s likely except for him being in the 23 and may end up there late in the game.
More likely is that Crotty will play 10 at some stage as he is more likely to be in a big game 23 and would be contingency.

@booboo said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):

I'll leave this here ...

View embedded content

Fuuuuuuuuck!!!!!!!!

Seems a long bow to draw to assume JB plays there against Canada. But obviously he is going to get a run there at some point.

One would assume minimal workload between Canada and Namibia - so whatever formations Napier has seen at training could well be for Namibia.

I would guess full strength for Canada with an early sub for one of Barrett or Mo'unga who then ride the pine against Namibia with Perenara to cover Jordie at 10.

@Bones

Did Hansen say everyone gets a run first two games? If he did apologies I didn’t see that , then I would only say I would do things a little different, make sure everyone gets a run over first 3 games.

You could play me at five-eighth against Canada. They'll be looking to give everyone a run. Timing wise it makes more sense to have the rest of the squad play this week and back up heavily against Namibia.

From there it's form and fitness for Italy.

I would think that getting everyone a game in the first two is necessary given the 10 day gap. If you make some wait until Namibia they will feel like bag carriers. I thought we learned that lesson at tournaments and tours years ago. It is only a 32 man squad, you need everyone involved.

@DMX said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):

@Bones

Did Hansen say everyone gets a run first two games? If he did apologies I didn’t see that , then I would only say I would do things a little different, make sure everyone gets a run over first 3 games.

I can't actually find anything, but I thought I recall something from maybe post the Tonga game? It's been repeated quite a bit here.

When's the team named?

He says in all innocence

@Siam Thursd...oh wait