@Bovidae said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:

@Joans-Town-Jones said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:

@Bovidae said in Black Ferns v England - RWC Final:

The English defence isn't as strong as the French defence, so I'd be confident the BFs can create more scoring opportunities. They just need to take them.

The French defence is better despite losing to England?

Yes. One try each in that game despite England having 67% possession and 70% territory. France made 227 tackles.

In the pool games and QF France conceded only one other try (against SA) before playing NZ. Fiji scored 3 tries in their pool game against England and England conceded 5 in total before the SF.

Oz also sliced open their backline on the one occasion they got them going backwards and Canada regularly made breaks but weren't connected enough in attack to complete.

Don't want to sound snarky but that (very good) length of the field try that England scored and supposedly showed how they can play with expanse wasn't as great as it is being sung about IMO. The breakout from behind the line was because they knew the French fullback was down receiving attention and there was a huge amount of room that side. The rest of the French team were forward and on attack. Good execution and thinking from a turnover but it was also a non defence.

Yes this is a handful of straws I am grasping.

@Crucial said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:

@Bovidae said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:

@Joans-Town-Jones said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:

@Bovidae said in Black Ferns v England - RWC Final:

The English defence isn't as strong as the French defence, so I'd be confident the BFs can create more scoring opportunities. They just need to take them.

The French defence is better despite losing to England?

Yes. One try each in that game despite England having 67% possession and 70% territory. France made 227 tackles.

In the pool games and QF France conceded only one other try (against SA) before playing NZ. Fiji scored 3 tries in their pool game against England and England conceded 5 in total before the SF.

Oz also sliced open their backline on the one occasion they got them going backwards and Canada regularly made breaks but weren't connected enough in attack to complete.

Don't want to sound snarky but that (very good) length of the field try that England scored and supposedly showed how they can play with expanse wasn't as great as it is being sung about IMO. The breakout from behind the line was because they knew the French fullback was down receiving attention and there was a huge amount of room that side. The rest of the French team were forward and on attack. Good execution and thinking from a turnover but it was also a non defence.

Yes this is a handful of straws I am grasping.

Kind of puzzled with this post.

Are you trying to convince yourself it wasn’t a great try?

@Bovidae said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:

@Joans-Town-Jones said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:

@Bovidae said in Black Ferns v England - RWC Final:

The English defence isn't as strong as the French defence, so I'd be confident the BFs can create more scoring opportunities. They just need to take them.

The French defence is better despite losing to England?

Yes. One try each in that game despite England having 67% possession and 70% territory. France made 227 tackles.

In the pool games and QF France conceded only one other try (against SA) before playing NZ. Fiji scored 3 tries in their pool game against England and England conceded 5 in total before the SF.

Furry muff.

@MajorRage said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:

@Crucial said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:

@Bovidae said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:

@Joans-Town-Jones said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:

@Bovidae said in Black Ferns v England - RWC Final:

The English defence isn't as strong as the French defence, so I'd be confident the BFs can create more scoring opportunities. They just need to take them.

The French defence is better despite losing to England?

Yes. One try each in that game despite England having 67% possession and 70% territory. France made 227 tackles.

In the pool games and QF France conceded only one other try (against SA) before playing NZ. Fiji scored 3 tries in their pool game against England and England conceded 5 in total before the SF.

Oz also sliced open their backline on the one occasion they got them going backwards and Canada regularly made breaks but weren't connected enough in attack to complete.

Don't want to sound snarky but that (very good) length of the field try that England scored and supposedly showed how they can play with expanse wasn't as great as it is being sung about IMO. The breakout from behind the line was because they knew the French fullback was down receiving attention and there was a huge amount of room that side. The rest of the French team were forward and on attack. Good execution and thinking from a turnover but it was also a non defence.

Yes this is a handful of straws I am grasping.

Kind of puzzled with this post.

Are you trying to convince yourself it wasn’t a great try?

At the time I thought that the commentary was over hyping how good it was and other media have just fed off that. It was certainly good vision to take the advantage offered, and well executed but from the moment the ball was about 20m out from their own line is was pretty clear field.
I have seen better tries this tournament and dont think it is a sign that England have finally worked out how to play running rugby. Just my opinion.

My concern is that we'll get trapped in our own half and ground down by the English set-piece (a familiar story). We don't seem to have any distance in our kicking game which makes it hard to play for territory, basically have to rely on running it back or a string of penalties to get down the field.

I have nightmares of us getting strangled in a dour match of set piece chess, still I think if we get an early lead and make England chase the game we stand a good chance.

I'm about 80/20 for England but hope I'm wrong!

@Windows97

Wayne Smith factor makes it closer to 50/50 IMO.

@Frye said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:

@Windows97

Wayne Smith factor makes it closer to 50/50 IMO.

They have 2/3 of the 2011 cartel. The effect on the team has been dramatic

Black Ferns team for the Final:

1: Phillipa Love (24)
2: Georgia Ponsonby (12)
3: Amy Rule (11)
4: Maiakawanakaukani Roos (13)
5: Chelsea Bremner (11)
6: Alana Bremner (12)
7: Sarah Hirini (16)
8: Charmaine McMenamin (30)
9: Kendra Cocksedge (67)
10: Ruahei Demant (25) – co-captain
11: Portia Woodman (24)
12: Theresa Fitzpatrick (17)
13: Stacey Fluhler (24)
14: Ruby Tui (9)
15: Renee Holmes (9)

16: Luka Connor (13)
17: Krystal Murray (8)
18: Santo Taumata (6)
19: Joanah Ngan-Woo (16)
20: Kennedy Simon (12) – co-captain
21: Ariana Bayler (7)
22: Hazel Tubic (21)
23: Ayesha Leti-I’iga (20)

Unavailable due to injury: Liana Mikaele-Tu’u

@Stargazer said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:

Black Ferns team for the Final:

1: Phillipa Love (24)
2: Georgia Ponsonby (12)
3: Amy Rule (11)
4: Maiakawanakaukani Roos (13)
5: Chelsea Bremner (11)
6: Alana Bremner (12)
7: Sarah Hirini (16)
8: Charmaine McMenamin (30)
9: Kendra Cocksedge (67)
10: Ruahei Demant (25) – co-captain
11: Portia Woodman (24)
12: Theresa Fitzpatrick (17)
13: Stacey Fluhler (24)
14: Ruby Tui (9)
15: Renee Holmes (9)

16: Luka Connor (13)
17: Krystal Murray (8)
18: Santo Taumata (6)
19: Joanah Ngan-Woo (16)
20: Kennedy Simon (12) – co-captain
21: Ariana Bayler (7)
22: Hazel Tubic (21)
23: Ayesha Leti-I’iga (20)

Unavailable due to injury: Liana Mikaele-Tu’u

A good team with one glaring exception.

I'm a big fan of Smith as a coach but WTF is this blind faith in Cocksedge?

[mod edit]Removed the last sentence. Just a joke obviously but it shifted the thread replies in a bad direction[/mod edit]

@RoninWC said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:

@Stargazer said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:

Black Ferns team for the Final:

1: Phillipa Love (24)
2: Georgia Ponsonby (12)
3: Amy Rule (11)
4: Maiakawanakaukani Roos (13)
5: Chelsea Bremner (11)
6: Alana Bremner (12)
7: Sarah Hirini (16)
8: Charmaine McMenamin (30)
9: Kendra Cocksedge (67)
10: Ruahei Demant (25) – co-captain
11: Portia Woodman (24)
12: Theresa Fitzpatrick (17)
13: Stacey Fluhler (24)
14: Ruby Tui (9)
15: Renee Holmes (9)

16: Luka Connor (13)
17: Krystal Murray (8)
18: Santo Taumata (6)
19: Joanah Ngan-Woo (16)
20: Kennedy Simon (12) – co-captain
21: Ariana Bayler (7)
22: Hazel Tubic (21)
23: Ayesha Leti-I’iga (20)

Unavailable due to injury: Liana Mikaele-Tu’u

A good team with one glaring exception.

I'm a big fan of Smith as a coach but WTF is this blind faith in Cocksedge?

[mod edit]

Neither of the others demanded selection ahead of her tbf. Sure, they had to also overcome the experience points she gets but she directs the players around her better.
Overplayed her hand last week and I think Smith will have given her a rark up about that.
If she starts then at least there is the option of taking her off.

McMenamin is bigger than Simon so I can sort of understand the logic. It will be interesting to see who Simon replaces. If Hirini is being outmuscled at the breakdown she should be subbed.

I expect the English forwards to bring the heat at the breakdown so Cocksedge needs to get the ball away ASAP instead of doing her Marshall traffic cop impersonation.

A 6:2 split on the bench for England. The BFs didn't even use two of their back reserves in the SF.

Maybe Im getting woke in my middle age but can we cut the chauvinism shit out.

@Bovidae said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:

A 6:2 split on the bench for England. The BFs didn't even use two of their back reserves in the SF.

Still need them though. There isn't another 10 except playing someone like Holmes in an emergency. Always need a halfback on the bench and Ayesha as impact.
Besides, I can't see who would make much difference as an additional forward reserve now LMT is out. (McM would have been the candidate)

@Crucial I certainly wasn't suggesting NZ also use a 6:2 split, but, like the Boks, it does signal how England intend to play. This isn't a surprise.

@Crucial said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:

@RoninWC said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:

@Stargazer said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:

Black Ferns team for the Final:

1: Phillipa Love (24)
2: Georgia Ponsonby (12)
3: Amy Rule (11)
4: Maiakawanakaukani Roos (13)
5: Chelsea Bremner (11)
6: Alana Bremner (12)
7: Sarah Hirini (16)
8: Charmaine McMenamin (30)
9: Kendra Cocksedge (67)
10: Ruahei Demant (25) – co-captain
11: Portia Woodman (24)
12: Theresa Fitzpatrick (17)
13: Stacey Fluhler (24)
14: Ruby Tui (9)
15: Renee Holmes (9)

16: Luka Connor (13)
17: Krystal Murray (8)
18: Santo Taumata (6)
19: Joanah Ngan-Woo (16)
20: Kennedy Simon (12) – co-captain
21: Ariana Bayler (7)
22: Hazel Tubic (21)
23: Ayesha Leti-I’iga (20)

Unavailable due to injury: Liana Mikaele-Tu’u

A good team with one glaring exception.

I'm a big fan of Smith as a coach but WTF is this blind faith in Cocksedge?

All I can think is, she must be giving him a BJ every so often or some such.

Neither of the others demanded selection ahead of her tbf. Sure, they had to also overcome the experience points she gets but she directs the players around her better.
Overplayed her hand last week and I think Smith will have given her a rark up about that.
If she starts then at least there is the option of taking her off.

Respectfully disagree. I think our best performances have been with Ariana Baylor and Marino-Tauhinu.

I don't think that Cocksedge gets the most out of this team. Okay, she might boss the forwards around a little better than the other two but she is slower, her pass is worse, especially compared to Baylor and she makes stupid decisions regularly. For a player so "experienced", I think she shows no composure and her decision making just outright sucks.

And her stupid box-kicks shit me no end.

Just need to concentrate and execute. Points will come. BFs scrum was a big positive against France. Go out and enjoy it, play their natural free-flowing game and express themselves.

@RoninWC said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:

@Crucial said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:

@RoninWC said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:

@Stargazer said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:

Black Ferns team for the Final:

1: Phillipa Love (24)
2: Georgia Ponsonby (12)
3: Amy Rule (11)
4: Maiakawanakaukani Roos (13)
5: Chelsea Bremner (11)
6: Alana Bremner (12)
7: Sarah Hirini (16)
8: Charmaine McMenamin (30)
9: Kendra Cocksedge (67)
10: Ruahei Demant (25) – co-captain
11: Portia Woodman (24)
12: Theresa Fitzpatrick (17)
13: Stacey Fluhler (24)
14: Ruby Tui (9)
15: Renee Holmes (9)

16: Luka Connor (13)
17: Krystal Murray (8)
18: Santo Taumata (6)
19: Joanah Ngan-Woo (16)
20: Kennedy Simon (12) – co-captain
21: Ariana Bayler (7)
22: Hazel Tubic (21)
23: Ayesha Leti-I’iga (20)

Unavailable due to injury: Liana Mikaele-Tu’u

A good team with one glaring exception.

I'm a big fan of Smith as a coach but WTF is this blind faith in Cocksedge?

All I can think is, she must be giving him a BJ every so often or some such.

Neither of the others demanded selection ahead of her tbf. Sure, they had to also overcome the experience points she gets but she directs the players around her better.
Overplayed her hand last week and I think Smith will have given her a rark up about that.
If she starts then at least there is the option of taking her off.

Respectfully disagree. I think our best performances have been with Ariana Baylor and Marino-Tauhinu.

I don't think that Cocksedge gets the most out of this team. Okay, she might boss the forwards around a little better than the other two but she is slower, her pass is worse, especially compared to Baylor and she makes stupid decisions regularly. For a player so "experienced", I think she shows no composure and her decision making just outright sucks.

And her stupid box-kicks shit me no end.

Box kicks are stupid full stop. The days of a 30m contestable kick are long gone as a viable tactic IMO.

Discipline will be the key to avoid giving away penalties (from scrums/breakdowns), which England can kick to the corners. I'm not that confident the BFs can defend the lineout drive, at least not legally.

Woodman needs a big game as she wasn't a factor in the SF.

@Bovidae Agree about Woodman. France took her out of the game while BFs stuck to their plan of ball not going past the 10 for much of the game. I notice England winger, Amy Dow has also switched to the left wing. Wonder if the Professor can cook something up here with Tui and Woodman interchanging, once the ball goes wide. Thought BFs almost played too conservatively against France. There is no next week. Throw everything, the kitchen sink plus a few wardrobes for good measure at them. Leave nothing behind.

@Bovidae said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:

Discipline will be the key to avoid giving away penalties (from scrums/breakdowns), which England can kick to the corners. I'm not that confident the BFs can defend the lineout drive, at least not legally.

Woodman needs a big game as she wasn't a factor in the SF.

In the England/ Canada SF England played the maul quite strangely. It seemed like they either wanted to show (or see) if they needed to rely on it as much. First maul was standard and worked. Only mintes later they got one going forward then passed out as soon as momentum halted instead of a second push.
I think the BF coaches have seen their technical maul setups enough to design a defence. Whether England have some new stuff kept back is the question.
We may be holding a lineout compete in reserve too.

England Red Roses squad:

Backs

15 Ellie Kildunne
14 Lydia Thompson
13 Emily Scarratt
12 Holly Aitchison
11 Abby Dow
10 Zoe Harrison
9 Leanne Infante

Forwards

1 Vickii Cornborough
2 Amy Cokayne
4 Zoe Aldcroft
5 Abbie Ward
6 Alex Matthews
7 Marlie Packer
8 Sarah Hunter (C)

Finishers

16 Lark Davies
17 Maud Muir
18 Shaunagh Brown
19 Cath O'Donnell
20 Poppy Cleall
21 Sadia Kabeya
22 Claudia MacDonald
23 Tatyana Heard

@Jailbreak7 said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:

Thought BFs almost played too conservatively against France

aside from about 20 mins where they were helter skelter!

IMO with a bit smarter play, they coulda won that game comfortably and was some of the more experienced players that panicked keeping the French in it.

Yeah the French clearly saw the threat Portia posed, and dealt with it, but just use her as a decoy too, cos she isnt the only threat.

@taniwharugby said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:

@Jailbreak7 said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:

Thought BFs almost played too conservatively against France

aside from about 20 mins where they were helter skelter!

IMO with a bit smarter play, they coulda won that game comfortably and was some of the more experienced players that panicked keeping the French in it.

Yeah the French clearly saw the threat Portia posed, and dealt with it, but just use her as a decoy too, cos she isnt the only threat.

Not so sure it was panic but it didn't seem like clear thinking. There was a desire to keep France back pedalling by quickly tapping without realising that a kick to touch and line out drive was probably the best option. That was the only one where I was really frustrated

Feel for Liana missing out. She’s played well since coming into the side earlier this year.

Don’t mind the halfback selection because there is at the very least a good combination.

I hope they really target the English midfield. There will be opportunities there.

@ACT-Crusader said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:

Feel for Liana missing out. She’s played well since coming into the side earlier this year.

Don’t mind the halfback selection because there is at the very least a good combination.

I hope they really target the English midfield. There will be opportunities there.

Don't know much about the English MF. But Fitzpatrick and Fluhler are in deadly form right now, on defence and in attack. If we can get parity up front let's unleash our backs on them. Forecast here is for a storm tomorrow, hopefully there's not too much rain . So far it's dry

Rain due to start tonight, a decent dump tomorrow, then easing off Saturday

@canefan I thought Fitzpatrick was a bit subdued for most of the game on Saturday, but eventually came into the game.

Her and the french 12 are eerily similar players, so maybe only one of them can use the superhuman power at a time.

I really hope Scarrett gets smoked in this match, so we can stop hearing about how much of a legend she is.

looks like Auckland will avoid the absolute shitty weather we have had pass through last 12 hours (now over coromandel) causing flooding around the place.

@Bones said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:

I really hope Scarrett gets smoked in this match, so we can stop hearing about how much of a legend she is.

It is slightly strange that they have changed the midfield for this game. I don't know the individual player attributes and even searching the UK press isn't giving me much clue. It seems to be a tactical swap rather than injury based. Could be around defence.

England are missing their first choice fullback and a first choice prop, not that it makes much difference except the usual 15 has a huge boot.

@Crucial said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:

@Bones said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:

I really hope Scarrett gets smoked in this match, so we can stop hearing about how much of a legend she is.

It is slightly strange that they have changed the midfield for this game. I don't know the individual player attributes and even searching the UK press isn't giving me much clue. It seems to be a tactical swap rather than injury based. Could be around defence.

England are missing their first choice fullback and a first choice prop, not that it makes much difference except the usual 15 has a huge boot.

Stop searching and analysing and just enjoy the game I reckon. You wouldn't do that for kids rugby.

@Bones said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:

@Crucial said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:

@Bones said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:

I really hope Scarrett gets smoked in this match, so we can stop hearing about how much of a legend she is.

It is slightly strange that they have changed the midfield for this game. I don't know the individual player attributes and even searching the UK press isn't giving me much clue. It seems to be a tactical swap rather than injury based. Could be around defence.

England are missing their first choice fullback and a first choice prop, not that it makes much difference except the usual 15 has a huge boot.

Stop searching and analysing and just enjoy the game I reckon. You wouldn't do that for kids rugby.

It's a step above that though

I am worried about the official Hollie Davidson from Scotland , she officiated the Ferns last year and absolutely caned them in the penalty count , I can’t put my finger on it but there’s certain arrogance about her
Maybe someone who has seen much more of Davidson in the North can comment
Just concerned that being from the Northern Hemisphere interpretation might be everything although I thought the Irish Ref Joy Neville was very good last weekend, no confusing calls and communicated well with the players .

@taniwharugby said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:

looks like Auckland will avoid the absolute shitty weather we have had pass through last 12 hours (now over coromandel) causing flooding around the place.

Rained heavy last night and this morning. Today has been generally less rain. At present it is misty here

@Steven-Harris said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:

I am worried about the official Hollie Davidson from Scotland , she officiated the Ferns last year and absolutely caned them in the penalty count , I can’t put my finger on it but there’s certain arrogance about her
Maybe someone who has seen much more of Davidson in the North can comment
Just concerned that being from the Northern Hemisphere interpretation might be everything although I thought the Irish Ref Joy Neville was very good last weekend, no confusing calls and communicated well with the players .

I thought she went well this tournament and deserved her Finals call up