@LagerLout said in RWC: Wales v Fiji:
Wow, some game. Blatant ref bias in some of those calls, gee where have I seen him before? I'd take either of those teams playing as a team rather than our current rabble.
That ref is a toe rag. So inconsistent yet pedantic at the same time.
He is awful.
@Higgins said in RWC: Wales v Fiji:
The game started at 7.00am and it's now ten to nine (that's 110minutes) which seems to be an awful long time for an 80 minute game, even allowing for the elongated half time/advertising breaks.
Same ref from Twickers where it was also the length of the godfather part 3.
@pooler-fan said in RWC: Wales v Fiji:
@Duluth The starting XV is scary enough but the thought of Tuisova & Botia off the bench to face a flagging Welsh team playing in 30 degree heat gives me the jitters
Tuisova & Botia
and they are big enough around the middle to hide some pads to stop any leeks 
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC: Wales v Fiji:
That's right you muppet, blow for a penalty when the Fiji scrum is rumbling towards the line.
Knock on Fiji
Had to go radio silence otherwise I would have been banned
Was on a lovely little buzz until the 60th minute where Wales were comfortably in charge of the match
Watched the match in Cardiff Rugby Club and it was a great atmosphere
Last 20 minutes felt like I’d been in / witnessed an accident and I sobered up pretty quickly
Thrilling, infuriating, exhausting
After walking the dog I opened up a bottle of red and watched it again
Carley was absolutely atrocious and should be stood down
Not the required standard for the RWC
Despite his inadequacies Fiji still had the opportunity to win the match but blew it
That’s not Carley’s fault
Should Elias have been YCarded and Fiji awarded a Penalty Try?
Yes
Should Biggar have been YCarded?
Yes
However, prior to Biggar’s offside the Fijians had dummied a tap & go and Carley had called them back and said you can’t dummy and move players
They retook it and did the same thing and Carley waved play on
Penalty Wales
What no one has talked about and no one has criticised is that prior to both Fiji’s 3rd and 4th tries the Fijian hooker popped out of the scrum
That’s an automatic penalty to Wales negating both Fijian tries
We’re Fiji hard done by?
Yes
But so too were Wales
Great game of rugby
Better side just won
I haven't watched too many games at the RWC so far, but this was a great game to watch.
Fiji missed Muntz.
Going forward, our best team for the Australia match would be
Dee to start, same props
Jenkins into second row to partner Rowlands
Same back row
Faletau just needs to get match fit
Torn over Davies and Tomos
I think Davies is in better form
So do you start him or finish with him?
Rest of the backs the same
After initial concern about Tompkins against their monsters he went well
He’s integral to us scoring tries
Biggar might want to look at his own tackling before pointing the finger at his teammates. That was a bad miss on Nayacalevu.
@ARHS said in RWC Week 1: Wales v Fiji:
Just watched this. Absolutely disgusted by the inconsistent and error-ridden display by the officials that ruined this match.
Fair play to Wales for playing the ref and bitching at everything. It clearly makes a huge difference. Amazing that a clear tackle headshot by Biggar was waved past given the scrutiny of Fiji.The only upside is that it wasn't the AB's on the receiving end this time around.
He is scheduled to handle the NZ Italy game.
I hate it when people bitch about the Ref, because so rarely are they the difference. But he was the difference.
Wales will probably cop some shit with their very clever game management and cynical penalties. But they don't deserve it they are under the pump at home too and they did what they needed to win. Carley letting them do it is total and utter incompetency and shows he doesn't command the necessary authority to ref a game at this level.
I am sorry but when you have warned a team to restart and they slow walk back to the half way. Stopping the clock is not acceptable. That behaviour needs dealing with. Then when they do it a second time to say nothing you are letting the teams walk all over you.
Hi performance was so bad it made me post after 6 years of lurking on this site. Unreal!
@mooshld said in RWC Week 1: Wales v Fiji:
@ARHS said in RWC Week 1: Wales v Fiji:
Just watched this. Absolutely disgusted by the inconsistent and error-ridden display by the officials that ruined this match.
Fair play to Wales for playing the ref and bitching at everything. It clearly makes a huge difference. Amazing that a clear tackle headshot by Biggar was waved past given the scrutiny of Fiji.The only upside is that it wasn't the AB's on the receiving end this time around.
He is scheduled to handle the NZ Italy game.
I hate it when people bitch about the Ref, because so rarely are they the difference. But he was the difference.
Wales will probably cop some shit with their very clever game management and cynical penalties. But they don't deserve it they are under the pump at home too and they did what they needed to win. Carley letting them do it is total and utter incompetency and shows he doesn't command the necessary authority to ref a game at this level.
I am sorry but when you have warned a team to restart and they slow walk back to the half way. Stopping the clock is not acceptable. That behaviour needs dealing with. Then when they do it a second time to say nothing you are letting the teams walk all over you.
Hi performance was so bad it made me post after 6 years of lurking on this site. Unreal!
I think he was scared about “deciding” the match. But by doing nothing he ended up probably deciding the match. Penalty on halfway to Fiji for walking back at snails pace. The worst though was the total lack of YC for repetitive infringing in the red zone. All refs make mistakes. But not giving a YC is not a mistake as there is no in-action decision to give (was it a forward pass, was it a knock on etc). He blows penalty then he can put his hand in his pocket. I think he will get the games he is already allocated then we won’t see him again.
@Billy-Tell ABs will be nervous then.
@Billy-Tell said in RWC Week 1: Wales v Fiji:
@mooshld said in RWC Week 1: Wales v Fiji:
@ARHS said in RWC Week 1: Wales v Fiji:
Just watched this. Absolutely disgusted by the inconsistent and error-ridden display by the officials that ruined this match.
Fair play to Wales for playing the ref and bitching at everything. It clearly makes a huge difference. Amazing that a clear tackle headshot by Biggar was waved past given the scrutiny of Fiji.The only upside is that it wasn't the AB's on the receiving end this time around.
He is scheduled to handle the NZ Italy game.
I hate it when people bitch about the Ref, because so rarely are they the difference. But he was the difference.
Wales will probably cop some shit with their very clever game management and cynical penalties. But they don't deserve it they are under the pump at home too and they did what they needed to win. Carley letting them do it is total and utter incompetency and shows he doesn't command the necessary authority to ref a game at this level.
I am sorry but when you have warned a team to restart and they slow walk back to the half way. Stopping the clock is not acceptable. That behaviour needs dealing with. Then when they do it a second time to say nothing you are letting the teams walk all over you.
Hi performance was so bad it made me post after 6 years of lurking on this site. Unreal!
I think he was scared about “deciding” the match. But by doing nothing he ended up probably deciding the match. Penalty on halfway to Fiji for walking back at snails pace. The worst though was the total lack of YC for repetitive infringing in the red zone. All refs make mistakes. But not giving a YC is not a mistake as there is no in-action decision to give (was it a forward pass, was it a knock on etc). He blows penalty then he can put his hand in his pocket. I think he will get the games he is already allocated then we won’t see him again.
Yes the lack of cards then the immediate card for Fiji were very bad, and you are probably right. When he blew up the Fijian scrum trundling towards the line as the Welsh disintegrated I would have bet anything in the world it was for a penalty try. But nope, no advantage nothing, not even an explication for why he stopped them from just walking it over.
I would say his match review will be a blood bath.
@stodders said in RWC Week 1: Wales v Fiji:
@Billy-Tell ABs will be nervous then.
Italy should be the nervous ones, they're the "tier two" team in that match. But he shouldn't get it as he doesn't deserve it.
I don't buy that he was scared. If Fiji had done that, he would've FKd them immediately.
On field decision is a try. Any reason I can’t award the try?
No you can award the try.
Cheers mate. No try double movement.
@Billy-Tell said in RWC Week 1: Wales v Fiji:
@mooshld said in RWC Week 1: Wales v Fiji:
@ARHS said in RWC Week 1: Wales v Fiji:
Just watched this. Absolutely disgusted by the inconsistent and error-ridden display by the officials that ruined this match.
Fair play to Wales for playing the ref and bitching at everything. It clearly makes a huge difference. Amazing that a clear tackle headshot by Biggar was waved past given the scrutiny of Fiji.The only upside is that it wasn't the AB's on the receiving end this time around.
He is scheduled to handle the NZ Italy game.
I hate it when people bitch about the Ref, because so rarely are they the difference. But he was the difference.
Wales will probably cop some shit with their very clever game management and cynical penalties. But they don't deserve it they are under the pump at home too and they did what they needed to win. Carley letting them do it is total and utter incompetency and shows he doesn't command the necessary authority to ref a game at this level.
I am sorry but when you have warned a team to restart and they slow walk back to the half way. Stopping the clock is not acceptable. That behaviour needs dealing with. Then when they do it a second time to say nothing you are letting the teams walk all over you.
Hi performance was so bad it made me post after 6 years of lurking on this site. Unreal!
I think he was scared about “deciding” the match. But by doing nothing he ended up probably deciding the match. Penalty on halfway to Fiji for walking back at snails pace. The worst though was the total lack of YC for repetitive infringing in the red zone. All refs make mistakes. But not giving a YC is not a mistake as there is no in-action decision to give (was it a forward pass, was it a knock on etc). He blows penalty then he can put his hand in his pocket. I think he will get the games he is already allocated then we won’t see him again.
Despite the fact that it's on TSF, I think this analysis is probably very accurate
@Billy-Tell said in RWC Week 1: Wales v Fiji:
On field decision is a try. Any reason I can’t award the try?
No you can award the try.
Cheers mate. No try double movement.
But if the ref sees an infringement on the replay - even if the TMO doesn't - isn't he right to disallow it?
(Not saying that the double movement was the right call, just questioning the protocol)
ETA: please don't mistake this for a defence of the shitshow of a refing performance in general
Not criticizing Wales, but I can't make up my mind if Wales won by being better at playing the Ref or because Carley was better at reffing Wales.
Honestly, it wasn't just incompetent, it was so bad and blatantly one-sided that it needs serious looking at.
@GibbonRib said in RWC Week 1: Wales v Fiji:
@Billy-Tell said in RWC Week 1: Wales v Fiji:
On field decision is a try. Any reason I can’t award the try?
No you can award the try.
Cheers mate. No try double movement.
But if the ref sees an infringement on the replay - even if the TMO doesn't - isn't he right to disallow it?
(Not saying that the double movement was the right call, just questioning the protocol)
ETA: please don't mistake this for a defence of the shitshow of a refing performance in general
Yes of course. But did anyone actually see a clear double movement? There may have been one but it was hardly like a stone cold knock on.
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC Week 1: Wales v Fiji:
Not criticizing Wales, but I can't make up my mind if Wales won by being better at playing the Ref or because Carley was better at reffing Wales.
Honestly, it wasn't just incompetent, it was so bad and blatantly one-sided that it needs serious looking at.
Combination of everything tbh
I honestly don't think he was cheating. He's just not up to the intensity and significance of a match like this
But it wasn't one way traffic
See my earlier post, two of Fiji's four tries should not have happened
@Billy-Tell said in RWC Week 1: Wales v Fiji:
Wales at times played very well. And they certainly had more street smarts.
We controlled proceedings and should have put the game to bed in the third stanza (40-60 mins)
That's when Gatland's plan was working really well
Unfortunately we played some really dumb rugby at the death to keep Fiji in it
But it's a massive improvement on our 6N and Summer Warm Up form
I honestly believe we can top this Pool
@MiketheSnow said in RWC Week 1: Wales v Fiji:
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC Week 1: Wales v Fiji:
Not criticizing Wales, but I can't make up my mind if Wales won by being better at playing the Ref or because Carley was better at reffing Wales.
Honestly, it wasn't just incompetent, it was so bad and blatantly one-sided that it needs serious looking at.
Combination of everything tbh
I honestly don't think he was cheating. He's just not up to the intensity and significance of a match like this
But it wasn't one way traffic
See my earlier post, two of Fiji's four tries should not have happened
Mistakes I get and accept. That includes the disallowed Fiji try.
Wales being allowed 4-5 penalties in front of their line without a YC while Fiji get a YC after 2 penalties (one near the 22 IIRC) I don't.
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC Week 1: Wales v Fiji:
@MiketheSnow said in RWC Week 1: Wales v Fiji:
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC Week 1: Wales v Fiji:
Not criticizing Wales, but I can't make up my mind if Wales won by being better at playing the Ref or because Carley was better at reffing Wales.
Honestly, it wasn't just incompetent, it was so bad and blatantly one-sided that it needs serious looking at.
Combination of everything tbh
I honestly don't think he was cheating. He's just not up to the intensity and significance of a match like this
But it wasn't one way traffic
See my earlier post, two of Fiji's four tries should not have happened
Mistakes I get and accept. That includes the disallowed Fiji try.
Wales being allowed 4-5 penalties in front of their line without a YC while Fiji get a YC after 2 penalties (one near the 22 IIRC) I don't.
Agreed. He shit the bed
As he did with Domachowski's YC
Infringement? Yes
Penalty? Yes
YC? On half way with no discernible advantage to Fiji then no
He flashed the card to make up for his earlier YC against Fiji
@Victor-Meldrew hey don't forget the second warning for Wales after they finally got a yellow!
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC Week 1: Wales v Fiji:
@MiketheSnow said in RWC Week 1: Wales v Fiji:
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC Week 1: Wales v Fiji:
Not criticizing Wales, but I can't make up my mind if Wales won by being better at playing the Ref or because Carley was better at reffing Wales.
Honestly, it wasn't just incompetent, it was so bad and blatantly one-sided that it needs serious looking at.
Combination of everything tbh
I honestly don't think he was cheating. He's just not up to the intensity and significance of a match like this
But it wasn't one way traffic
See my earlier post, two of Fiji's four tries should not have happened
Mistakes I get and accept. That includes the disallowed Fiji try.
Wales being allowed 4-5 penalties in front of their line without a YC while Fiji get a YC after 2 penalties (one near the 22 IIRC) I don't.
Yeah, agreed. As a Welsh fan I'd have had no complaints if he'd carded one of our guys a lot earlier.
The Fijian YC near the 22 was the one for pulling the maul down right? I don't think there's anything wrong with a YC in that situation without prior warning, you see those given often. It's just that he was too weak when Wales kept infringing on their goal-line.
@mantissanet said in RWC Week 1: Wales v Fiji:
@Bones Some of my best friends are referees...
I call bullshit.
Referees are selected by choosing the kids with no friends and poor eyesight (except when the spot something the team you support has done).
Unless...you are a referee...
@pooler-fan said in RWC Week 1: Wales v Fiji:
@mooshld to be fair to him when the scrum was moving forward didn't the ball get knocked on at the base, or did I imagine that?
Yes
He said it on ref mic
@GibbonRib said in RWC Week 1: Wales v Fiji:
I don't think there's anything wrong with a YC in that situation without prior warning,
He can justify his decisions and ask us to accept his errors and that's fine, as long as they even-handed. They weren't.
I don't think I've ever bagged a ref for being biased since they went neutral (not even Barnes) and hate criticism of them as they generally do a bloody good job and actually make bugger all mistakes - but as a neutral, Carley reffing last night deserves looking at for more than incompetence.
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC Week 1: Wales v Fiji:
@GibbonRib said in RWC Week 1: Wales v Fiji:
I don't think there's anything wrong with a YC in that situation without prior warning,
He can justify his decisions and ask us to accept his errors and that's fine, as long as they even-handed. They weren't.
I don't think I've ever bagged a ref for being biased since they went neutral (not even Barnes) and hate criticism of them as they generally do a bloody good job and actually make bugger all mistakes - but as a neutral, Carley reffing last night deserves looking at for more than incompetence.
But if he was biased or corrupt, how do you explain the various Fijian offences that were missed?
Hanlon's Razor says "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
I reckon you can substitute stupudity with incompetence and it will still hold true.
But yes, he fell far short of the minimum expectation of consistency
Hanlon's Razor says "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
Take your point, but as Lee Atwater said: "Perception is Reality". It isn't just the stupidity or incompetence, it's the look.
60th minute, Biggar should have been yellow carded.
Gets up offside.
Never looked like retreating.
Took the halfback.
If pulling down a maul is a professional foul, so is that.
Subsequent penalty awarded for But it isn't just the ones blown, is all the other shithousery - Wales desperately off their feet at every ruck and scrabbling hands.
The warning didn't take into account the nature of either penalty I might add.
@GibbonRib you also see yellows whipped out all the time for cynical, offside, ball tampering infringements a couple of metres out from the tryline. Not a couple more penalties then a warning.
You also see yellow cards for no arms tackles aimed at the knee - not comments of "no foul play" followed by penalising the other team 30 seconds later for a seatbelt tackle of minimal effect.
It's these type of incidents that give it the "look" of something more than incompetence.
And again at 76 Fiji have carved them open. They're 2 metres out and the arm goes out again. Back that into all the time wasting and cynical bullshit.
That's a yellow every day.
Yeah, you're right, plenty of incidents where Wales could and should have had another card.
I'm just wary of ascribing it to corruption, when incompetence is a perfectly adequate explanation.
Look at the Rassie inspired farce during the last Lions tour - thousands of Boks fans will go to their graves swearing that the refs were (and still are) conspiring to cheat them, despite all evidence to the contrary. As you say, perception becomes reality. Don't want to play that game.
Still, at the end Fiji had a fairly straightforward chance to score a try and kick the conversion from close enough.
They still had their fate in their hands - despite any issue they may have with the officiating - and couldn't execute.
@GibbonRib sure - but that's Bokke fans complaining about refs in Bokke games. Quite different.
@NTA said in RWC Week 1: Wales v Fiji:
They still had their fate in their hands - despite any issue they may have with the officiating - and couldn't execute.
I find this line of thinking a bit insincere. It would've been a helluva lot easier to execute it they weren't getting shafted.
