All Blacks
Match thread
Fiji
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@Bones there was a conversation earlier, possibly in another thread about the height of our locks.
Yeah I know I'm trying to figure out what winger is trying to say. Bovidae said Itoje is under 2m and all winger did was add his bio?
@Bones said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@Bones there was a conversation earlier, possibly in another thread about the height of our locks.
Yeah I know I'm trying to figure out what winger is trying to say. Bovidae said Itoje is under 2m and all winger did was add his bio?
I for one appreciated it, in fact I’m off to give it an upvote
@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
I think it's a bit shit that, in a 14-test year, with 6 "home" games, we decide to play one in the US. And not even against the US. 5 tests for the year? Talk about short changing your own fans.
What is the point of this fixture? Is there a massive, cashed up Fijian diaspora located in San Diego I've been ignorant of all this time?
@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
I think it's a bit shit that, in a 14-test year, with 6 "home" games, we decide to play one in the US. And not even against the US. 5 tests for the year? Talk about short changing your own fans.
I get $ and all, but it also feels a bit shit to me that we have only played Fiji 7 times in a 639 test career - and not in Fiji since 1984
Samoa and Tonga also 7 times each
@pakman said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
In this new age of enlightened PR would it be too much for NZR+ to publish details of who’s in San Diego and who stayed back?
I suspect a few fans might even be interested.
And release the team on a Wednesday. Esp when it's known on Tuesday
It's bordering on gross incompetence. So simple and almost no cost and still not being done
@Bones said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@Bones there was a conversation earlier, possibly in another thread about the height of our locks.
Yeah I know I'm trying to figure out what winger is trying to say. Bovidae said Itoje is under 2m and all winger did was add his bio?
Are you being serious bones. The locks could be 1.99 or less. I looked up the height of one and added the details for those that are interested.
@pakman said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
In this new age of enlightened PR would it be too much for NZR+ to publish details of who’s in San Diego and who stayed back?
I suspect a few fans might even be interested.
Has anyone said anything to indicate there would be any changes to the squad? The one they named at the start of the year was for all three Tests, they didn't do a big squad announcement after the first Test so why would they do one after the second?
The only question mark is really TJ Perenara but with Hotham in San Diego, seems fairly clear that Perenara isn't fit to play?
@mikedogz said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
This game is being played at 2:30pm Saturday NZ time. Right when a lot of club finals are being played.
Bummer.
Needs better coordination
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@pakman said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
In this new age of enlightened PR would it be too much for NZR+ to publish details of who’s in San Diego and who stayed back?
I suspect a few fans might even be interested.Has anyone said anything to indicate there would be any changes to the squad? The one they named at the start of the year was for all three Tests, they didn't do a big squad announcement after the first Test so why would they do one after the second?
The only question mark is really TJ Perenara but with Hotham in San Diego, seems fairly clear that Perenara isn't fit to play?
There was a comment which I took to mean that Darry and Lakai would travel so a couple of squad members with a lot of minutes on clock could stay behind and recuperate.
It's interesting all the chat around the blindside position, compared to say, the second row - potentially because there are more candidates putting their hand up to play in the loose forwards than at lock.
Patrick Tuipulotu was back to his usual international quality over the weekend after fading a little bit in the second half of the first game. He was far less effective than Samipeni Finau in the second Test but all the focus has been on No 6.
I still think that with quicker delivery from the base (i.e. not TJ Perenara or Finlay Christie playing at halfback), the current forward pack and midfield could do very well.
I would like to see someone like ALB or Billy Proctor given a run at centre against Fiji (and ideally retain them for the following game against Argentina), simply to see how they operate outside Jordie Barrett at Test level. Lienert-Brown has only once played at 13 with Barrett at 12, and that was against Uruguay during the World Cup. That doesn't mean I think Ioane isn't up to snuff, but I think Lienert-Brown definitely deserves a run in his preferred jersey alongside NZ's first-choice inside centre.
Fiji won't be easy-beats on Friday but they certainly shouldn't pose as strong a challenge as England. Hopefully everyone in the main squad who's yet to get a run will get some minutes on the board this week (except maybe Bell, I'd like to see Aumua/Taylor play again).
I think Beauden Barrett's performance was incredible but I also believe it's the exception to his normal showings. Perofeta has done well enough at fullback so far to hold onto the jersey (bar not passing in-field, he's not made many mistakes). McKenzie was great at 10 and the majority of the issues the All Blacks had at controlling the play was due to the forward pack/halfback not delivering quick ball.
For the next big game (which, I suppose is the following Test against Argentina, although I'm possibly thinking as far ahead as South Africa), I'd like to see...
1 De Groot
2 Taukei'aho (or Taylor, if Taukei'aho still isn't fit)
3 Lomax
4 Barrett
5 Vaa'i
6 Finau
7 Papali'i
8 Savea
9 Ratima
10 McKenzie
11 Clarke
12 Barrett
13 Lienert-Brown
14 Narawa
15 Perofeta
Reserves: Aumua, Williams, Newell, Tuipulotu, Sititi, Christie, Ioane, Barrett.
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
It's interesting all the chat around the blindside position, compared to say, the second row - potentially because there are more candidates putting their hand up to play in the loose forwards than at lock.
And compared to the attention on the number 8.
@Tim said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
It's interesting all the chat around the blindside position, compared to say, the second row - potentially because there are more candidates putting their hand up to play in the loose forwards than at lock.
And compared to the attention on the number 8.
I suppose I'm less surprised by that given Savea is an incumbent (and was one of NZ's best at the World Cup, despite the obvious flaws with playing him at 8). But yes, all the heat is coming on Finau when there are other players who didn't exactly set the world on fire.
@Machpants said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
We need more munters in the forwards,
they've picked big bodies - but our carrying is terrible.
Only rewatched the first half, but one of the reasons I think that PT and Finau struggled to carry was because they are the only ball carriers - so you get targetted by the defence.
IT's like lineouts, if there are only 3 options the defence can really target you. I think that's why we were so cute trying to throw to Ardie all the first half (spoiler: it didn't work)
The carry metres from our starting pack don't make for good reading, particularly de Groot and Lomax who appear to have made 1 m between them in 6 carries.
@Bovidae said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
The carry metres from our starting pack don't make for good reading, particularly de Groot and Lomax who appear to have made 1 m between them in 6 carries.
That is a real worry
@Bovidae said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
The carry metres from our starting pack don't make for good reading, particularly de Groot and Lomax who appear to have made 1 m between them in 6 carries.
It is easy to pick off one out runners no matter what their size or skill. Easy pickings for a good defense.
Yes our attack pattern is very predictable. Need more variety. Different angles, pick and go etc. Not holding my breath though.
just saw someone point out if DMac plays this game it will be his 50th cap....anyone else surprised hes only played 49 tests? feels like hes been around forever
Noticed Finau out wide for AB's at times, like they want to use him running hard at backs more than as a one off runner. Will be interesting to see who is hitting it up v Fiji and where. AB's attack v England reminded me of the Blues in last couple of years before Vern Cotter got things working much better.
@Kiwiwomble debuted as a replacement against Pumas as a 21 year old in 2016. Was a regular starter in 2017 but then Jordie replaced him at FB and he became a bench option since then. Also missed all of 2019 to his knee injury and 2020 was a truncated Covid season. So, although he debuted 8 years ago, he's really only played 5 full seasons of international rugby - mainly as an impact player.
Yeah I was also surprised given how quickly players can rack up 50 caps. Whitelock did it in 4 seasons.
68 players counting DMac will have 50 caps. Only 15 of them played amateur test footy and that includes Mehrts and Kronfeld who debuted just as rugby went professional.
de Groot has more caps that Buck FFS
@dogmeat said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
de Groot has more caps that Buck FFS
thats mad, never looked it up but you assume legends like that, even in the amateur days, could have 50
One of the things that really irritated me pre-WC was us going away from one of Hansen/Henry's positive strategies, which was to not run out a total B team in the easier tests. You learn nothing, you gain no useful combinations. It's either just charity minutes to give everyone a chance to participate in elite sport, which is a joke, or everyone needs a rest, in which case it shouldn't have been scheduled and isn't a proper test. Hopefully Robertson reverts, and only makes a few changes and not too many in any one unit.
Lomax, Aumua, De Groot
Vaii, Barrett
Savea, Sititi/Blackadder, Finau
Ratima, McKenzie
Jordie, Ioane
Narawa, Perofeta, Reece.
bench: newell, ofa, taylor, blackadder/sititi, proctor, whoever else.
@reprobate agreed in principle but i think proctor should get a run, midfield is something we've need to work on for a while...RI is what he is (world class in some aspects and never going to change others)....so lets test the other options
@Kiwiwomble I don't agree with the Ioane selection, Fiji is the perfect opportunity to give someone like Proctor a go to see how he performs at the next level. On form Ioane doesn't deserve to start all three tests to kick off the year. Proctor deserves his opportunity after been super consistent the last two years and it will be great to see an out and out centre back in the jersey again, noting that the distribution to our outsides has been poor so far.
@Canes4life ....so exactly what i was saying then? give Proctor a run?
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@Canes4life ....so exactly what i was saying then? give Proctor a run?
Yeah sorry, I wasn't disagreeing with you. Was more responding to those selecting Ioane. Don't see the point. Ioane will get another opportunity, likely against Argentina.
Starting Proctor outside Jordie is also a no brainer considering their form in Super.
@booboo said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@mikedogz said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
This game is being played at 2:30pm Saturday NZ time. Right when a lot of club finals are being played.
Bummer.
Needs better coordination
we're paying a home game against Fiji in the US. The wants or needs of the NZ rugby public actually matter fuck all to the NZRU
@Kiwiwomble I don't disagree at all that Proctor deserves a chance, but as of right now i think at least one wing and the halfback need to change more, and would like to retain some combinations.
Likewise in the forwards it would be nice to see the other props get a shot, but a very poor lineout and Taylor not going great make Aumua more of a priority.
And I would like to see what both Blackadder and Sititi can offer, but preferably not both at the same time.
It's a new team, new systems, and every game early on is an opportunity to build continuity - so once you've picked a side you don't want to make wholesale changes - which is also a reason I was disappointed with the conservative initial selections.
@mariner4life think that disconnect has been there for many years, made worse in the last decade or so.