@Bones said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

Razor knockers can surely see there is less headless chicken stuff over the last 3 games

Prolly gonna just wait to see how we go against something better than Borthwick England or not even the drua, but yeah for a second side it was a much tidier affair than the past few years.

:beaming_face_with_smiling_eyes: :beaming_face_with_smiling_eyes: :beaming_face_with_smiling_eyes:

Only SA will be equal to or better than Borthwick's England

If you don't thrash both Argentina and Australia then you have problems

@MiketheSnow The lineout remains the worry for me, then the lack of depth in the backrow, then the lack of depth at ten, then the run of tough away games we have in November.

But overall, I am pleased with the results so far and to see the squad moving forward.

RI to the wing please and a centre at centre. ALB had a great game. BP was decent too. Thought Ratima and then Hotham very good too. And CC looks so much better with less body weight.

3/3 so far. Ah, I’d forgotten what it was like for the ABs to string together victories.

@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

Maybe a Niggles, LJ, and Sotutu backrow with Savea as impact might be our best combo.

Not that controversial.

I think you could swap in/out about 8 names in any number of combinations and it would be a defendable opinion.

Edit: defendable, not dependable

@Billy-Tell Oh come on lol, we strung many victories together under the last management too haha.

Lets not act like we barely strung 2 victories in a row from 2020-2023.

All in all a pretty satisfactory performance. Fiji weren't great, to be honest, and it's hard to read too much into individual performances beyond the fact that none of the debutants looked overawed.

I'd like to see two teams relatively close to full strength rolled out against Argentina, but there's definitely room for a bit of experimentation in a couple of positions because, in my opinion, there are a few 'second stringers' who are pushing the incumbents.

I think Tupou Vaa'i, Cortez Ratima, Anton Lienert-Brown, Caleb Clarke and Emoni Narawa should be starting in the first Test in place of Patrick Tuipulotu, TJ Perenara, Rieko Ioane, Mark Tele'a and Sevu Reece, but otherwise sticking with the the same side that was used in the opening game of the season.

It's tough to pick between the three Chiefs loosies at the moment, Samipeni Finau, Luke Jacobson and Wallace Sititi, for who should start, who should come off the bench and who should be left out of the 23. My preference is to persist with Finau for now and maybe give Sititi the 20 jersey. I think Jacobson should probably be starting or not in the team, I don't think he adds enough impact from the bench and I'd like to see a bit more of Sititi.

Stephen Perofeta holds onto the 15 jersey for my mind. Narawa needs a proper run. There's probably a bit of room for rotation in the props and I'm not too bothered if Codie Taylor or Asafo Aumua starts with the other on the bench.

After the first Argentina game, Robertson should be able to largely confirm the top team to run out in the second game and against the Springboks.

Yes Beaudan IMO looks better off the bench. LJ is good defensively, good at LO but hard to gauge against Fiji who did not contest, but not really an impact player, Niggles may be better off bench and less effective tackler but they are otherwise fighting for same role (and IMO EB is better at 6 than 7).

Not mentioned much here I think but Aumuas no look passing was so sharp and effective! Even Beauden could learn from that (BB still sometimes doesn't delay but goes for ye old hospital pass). You can see why they like Wallace off the bench. They're using Ardie a huge amount as a linker he is basically another 12 minus the kicking. Man that was the best ALB performance for ages, he was really aggro and assertive. I could be wrong but Proctor looks like he has the game against tighter tougher midfielders as well, classy. He's not a tank though. France or SA might be interesting.

Did anyone else think Darry played well? Showed some good hands, energy and reflexes methinks.

Oh forgot to mention Niggles was always keen to assist, still think he's not long-term 6 until he becomes more astute and effective with ball.

And some of our props were shown up around the field by their replacements, boy we are lucky to have these 4, now to find more locks..

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

And some of our props were shown up around the field by their replacements, boy we are lucky to have these 4, now to find more locks..

I’m assuming Newell is a terrific scrummager because he offers absolutely nothing else, even by the less than impressive standards of recent AB props.

@MN5 said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

And some of our props were shown up around the field by their replacements, boy we are lucky to have these 4, now to find more locks..

I’m assuming Newell is a terrific scrummager because he offers absolutely nothing else, even by the less than impressive standards of recent AB props.

I think that is why they like him - a terrific scrummager. No reason his ball skills can't improve either. I reckon EDG's ball skills have improved loads since he made his test debut.

@frugby said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@MN5 said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

And some of our props were shown up around the field by their replacements, boy we are lucky to have these 4, now to find more locks..

I’m assuming Newell is a terrific scrummager because he offers absolutely nothing else, even by the less than impressive standards of recent AB props.

I think that is why they like him - a terrific scrummager. No reason his ball skills can't improve either. I reckon EDG's ball skills have improved loads since he made his test debut.

Actually running with the ball would be cool too

@MN5 said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@frugby said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@MN5 said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

And some of our props were shown up around the field by their replacements, boy we are lucky to have these 4, now to find more locks..

I’m assuming Newell is a terrific scrummager because he offers absolutely nothing else, even by the less than impressive standards of recent AB props.

I think that is why they like him - a terrific scrummager. No reason his ball skills can't improve either. I reckon EDG's ball skills have improved loads since he made his test debut.

Actually running with the ball would be cool too

baby steps, giant baby steps..

@MN5 said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@frugby said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@MN5 said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

And some of our props were shown up around the field by their replacements, boy we are lucky to have these 4, now to find more locks..

I’m assuming Newell is a terrific scrummager because he offers absolutely nothing else, even by the less than impressive standards of recent AB props.

I think that is why they like him - a terrific scrummager. No reason his ball skills can't improve either. I reckon EDG's ball skills have improved loads since he made his test debut.

Actually running with the ball would be cool too

Meh. A prop being able to run with the ball won't win you games - but a prop who can dominate the scrum will go a long way towards helping that. I think this is particularly true of a reserve prop (which is all Newell has ever been for the ABs)

The job of a sub is always simplified, and I think of a reserve prop, the main concern is what he can do in the scrum.

@frugby

Its a pity Tosi wasn't better in the scum. He was VG during super rugby but struiggled in his first test. Because he offers everything that Newell lacks around the field. And more than most TH props

I would work on Tosi's scrumaging. As Newell is unlikely to offer much else even with work. Great in the scrum but limited elsewhere

@frugby said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

Meh. A prop being able to run with the ball won't win you games

A tight 5 who can hold and pass is critical. Part of that is running. We have gone backwards in that regard in the last few years.

@Billy-Tell said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

RI to the wing please and a centre at centre.

@nzzp I think you could go back further than the past few years...we used to have a good scrum with the best ball running and skillful props 10+ years back.

My view of who put their hand up to start

Aumua. Offers a lot more than Taylor. He just needs to be consistent with his lineout throwing game after game,
Proctor. My MOTM. I thought he was outstanding. And a real centre. I would start Proctor with Jordie in the midfield and move Reiko back to the wing.
Clarke. Back to his best. Almost a must start if fit
Ratima. Unlike many I also thought Hotham has a good game too. But would start Ratima with either Perenara or maybe Hotham as the backup
BB. To start until Jordan returns. My preference would be Love statting until Jordan returns but ...

Not good enough or a maybe
Tosi in the scrum. Shame as otherwise he was superb
Williams. As a replacement maybe
Siti Looked the goods for sure
Darry. Didn't look out of place
ALB. Another option at 2nd 5 but would definitely keep Barrett here

@taniwharugby said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@nzzp I think you could go back further than the past few years...we used to have a good scrum with the best ball running and skillful props 10+ years back.

Steve McDowell

The outside break by Caleb was awesome and a forgotten skill by many. Deserved a try.

@Winger said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@frugby

Its a pity Tosi wasn't better in the scum. He was VG during super rugby but struiggled in his first test. Because he offers everything that Newell lacks around the field. And more than most TH props

I would work on Tosi's scrumaging. As Newell is unlikely to offer much else even with work. Great in the scrum but limited elsewhere

Work on his scrummaging and you are onto a winner. Hopefully he keeps improving... I'd argue that history shows that it easier to work on a prop's all-round game than scrummaging, so writing Newell off feels pretty harsh.

There have been very few guys go from being poor scrummagers to good scrummagers... Lomax is one in recent times, but feels rare.

@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@frugby said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

Meh. A prop being able to run with the ball won't win you games

A tight 5 who can hold and pass is critical. Part of that is running. We have gone backwards in that regard in the last few years.

The All Blacks tried to pick a mobile front row in 2019 and it backfired fairly spectacularly. Set piece is crucial, particularly with the way scrums are referred in the modern game.

I agree that the baseline should be being able to catch the ball, so Newell definitely needs to work on that, but I also think it is less of a concern when he clearly isn't viewed as a starter. He has started just 1/16 tests, and when Lomax was injured they went with Laulala and left him on the bench.

Can either Reiko or Clarke play 14, or can both only play 11?
With Clarke and Reiko you've got two big, very quick wingers.
With Proctor at 13, you've you got his provincial partnership with Jordie and a center who really looks to feed his wingers. Tempting, but probably won't happen.

@Frank Both Rieko and Clarke have played 14 before - moreso early in their respective careers.

@Winger said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

My view of who put their hand up to start

Aumua. Offers a lot more than Taylor. He just needs to be consistent with his lineout throwing game after game,
Proctor. My MOTM. I thought he was outstanding. And a real centre. I would start Proctor with Jordie in the midfield and move Reiko back to the wing.
Clarke. Back to his best. Almost a must start if fit
Ratima. Unlike many I also thought Hotham has a good game too. But would start Ratima with either Perenara or maybe Hotham as the backup
BB. To start until Jordan returns. My preference would be Love statting until Jordan returns but ...

Not good enough or a maybe
Tosi in the scrum. Shame as otherwise he was superb
Williams. As a replacement maybe
Siti Looked the goods for sure
Darry. Didn't look out of place
ALB. Another option at 2nd 5 but would definitely keep Barrett here

Aumua has been consistent with his line out throwing. He’s been good for most of this year, a real improvement compared to 2023.

My team for the first Argie game in Welly would be:

1. De Groot
2. Aumua
3. Lomax
4. S Barrett
5. Tuipulotu
6. Jacobsen
7. Papali’i
8. Savea
9. Ratima (if fit)
10. McKenzie
11. Clarke
12. J Barrett
13. Proctor
14. Ioane
15. Jordan (if fit) or B Barrett (not sold at all on Perofeta)
16. Taylor
17. Williams
18. Newell
19. Darry
20. Blackadder
21. Perenara (if fit)
22. ALB
23. Barrett or Reece

@Canes4life no love for Ratima?

@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@Canes4life no love for Ratima?

He had a very good game. Just a shame we lost him early

@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@Canes4life no love for Ratima?

I’d start him but thought he was badly concussed. How far away is the next game?

@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@Canes4life no love for Ratima?

I’d start him but thought he was badly concussed. How far away is the next game?

21 days

@canefan said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@Canes4life no love for Ratima?

I’d start him but thought he was badly concussed. How far away is the next game?

21 days

Oh cool, have updated the team with Ratima starting and Perenara off the bench.

@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@Canes4life no love for Ratima?

I would either start Ratima or replace with Christie

And no to Blackadder. Darry is unlikley too

@Machpants said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

Lol anthem so bad it made the news

I used that time to go to the bar.

@Kruse said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@Machpants said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

Lol anthem so bad it made the news

I used that time to go to the bar.

It started off poorly but towards the end was better

@Kruse said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@Machpants said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

Lol anthem so bad it made the news

I used that time to go to the bar.

Kruse is my spirit animal

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

He's not a tank though.

He looks to be at least as big as Ioane, if not bigger. Definitely not someone I would've ever thought would be considered not big enough.

@Winger said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@frugby

Its a pity Tosi wasn't better in the scum. He was VG during super rugby but struiggled in his first test. Because he offers everything that Newell lacks around the field. And more than most TH props

I would work on Tosi's scrumaging. As Newell is unlikely to offer much else even with work. Great in the scrum but limited elsewhere

Tosi getting poor raps for his scrummaging seems based merely on scrum worsening when he came on, rather than technical observation. He was on opposite side from camera, so tricky on latter.

Another thing which changed was Darry coming on and going to TH lock. He wasn’t good there for Blues, notably against Saders, but things worked well once he and Patty T swapped sides.

Scooter is a great LH lock, but Tosi would likely have looked miles better with him behind him.

And some of our props were shown up around the field by their reolacements, boy we are lucky to have these 4, now to find more locks..

Tosi is definitely a project player. He was playing 8 a few years ago so let’s give the guy a bit of time to get used to scrummaging at international level. He’s come so far in the space of two years for the Canes so if he can show the same development for the ABs, we could have a real weapon on our hands by the World Cup.