@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@Bones said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

Tosi made almost as many tackles as Blackadder, Blackadder accounts for almost 20% of missed tackles.

Yeah he had a great game.

Or, attempted more tackles than anyone else - despite lacking match fitness and 'couldn't keep up', 'struggled with the pace'.
Meanwhile Proctor misses 3 and is the messiah who needs to urgently replace one of our best players from the WC (and I say that as a long time Ioane doubter).

Read into those stats all you like but a couple of those misses weren't necessarily one on one misses. Proctor put himself into a few situations where, because of his high work rate off the ball he made a couple lunges on the next player out after covering the guy he was marking up on. Maybe he shouldn't have made those attempts and let the player who was meant to be covering those guys take the hit, but that's the sort of player Proctor is, he always pushes hard.

He's the best defensive centre in NZ and that's the biggest reason he's been picked.

He got easily stepped and beaten in the last play of the game.

What, the last play where he managed to nab back possession anyway? You’re really knit picking his performance.

The last scrum he was stepped and beaten on the inside. If it wasn't for ALB cleaning up, Fiji were on their way to the try line.

It think it was quite refreshing to have a centre actually executing the core skills of a centre. from the Canes.

Fixed.

How about focusing on the 98% of things he did well. I remember the play, Proctor was pushing out and the Fijian player stepped in so therefore he becomes ALB’s man. ALB actually missed him if you want to get technical.

LOL It's ALB's fault he didn't cover two men while Proctor got done like a dinner. I suppose it's easy to be considered a defensive genius when every tackle you miss was someone else's fault.

The Fijian player passed back inside and that’s when the play broke down.

After ALB got a hand to it which is where the knock on call came from.

Face it mate, you’re trying to poke holes in Proctor’s solid debut performance because you know Ioane has pressure on him. If Ioane fails to perform Proctor will happily take his spot.

I'm happy that the All Blacks have competition for spots. I'm happy for Proctor to make his case. If he plays well enough I'm even happy for him to be rewarded appropriately.

I'm just getting sick of the delusions and rampant bias. He played reasonably well against Fiji and you're trying to pretend that should be the basis for him replacing Ioane who played against England ffs.

@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@Bones said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

Tosi made almost as many tackles as Blackadder, Blackadder accounts for almost 20% of missed tackles.

Yeah he had a great game.

Or, attempted more tackles than anyone else - despite lacking match fitness and 'couldn't keep up', 'struggled with the pace'.
Meanwhile Proctor misses 3 and is the messiah who needs to urgently replace one of our best players from the WC (and I say that as a long time Ioane doubter).

Read into those stats all you like but a couple of those misses weren't necessarily one on one misses. Proctor put himself into a few situations where, because of his high work rate off the ball he made a couple lunges on the next player out after covering the guy he was marking up on. Maybe he shouldn't have made those attempts and let the player who was meant to be covering those guys take the hit, but that's the sort of player Proctor is, he always pushes hard.

He's the best defensive centre in NZ and that's the biggest reason he's been picked.

He got easily stepped and beaten in the last play of the game.

What, the last play where he managed to nab back possession anyway? You’re really knit picking his performance.

The last scrum he was stepped and beaten on the inside. If it wasn't for ALB cleaning up, Fiji were on their way to the try line.

It think it was quite refreshing to have a centre actually executing the core skills of a centre. from the Canes.

Fixed.

How about focusing on the 98% of things he did well. I remember the play, Proctor was pushing out and the Fijian player stepped in so therefore he becomes ALB’s man. ALB actually missed him if you want to get technical.

LOL It's ALB's fault he didn't cover two men while Proctor got done like a dinner. I suppose it's easy to be considered a defensive genius when every tackle you miss was someone else's fault.

View image

The Fijian player passed back inside and that’s when the play broke down.

After ALB got a hand to it which is where the knock on call came from.

Face it mate, you’re trying to poke holes in Proctor’s solid debut performance because you know Ioane has pressure on him. If Ioane fails to perform Proctor will happily take his spot.

I'm happy that the All Blacks have competition for spots. I'm happy for Proctor to make his case. If he plays well enough I'm even happy for him to be rewarded appropriately.

I'm just getting sick of the delusions and rampant bias. He played reasonably well against Fiji and you're trying to pretend that should be the basis for him replacing Ioane who played against England ffs.

I think anyone getting overly excited about ANY of the debutants ( or ALB for the matter ) needs to remember who they played against.

@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@Bones said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

Tosi made almost as many tackles as Blackadder, Blackadder accounts for almost 20% of missed tackles.

Yeah he had a great game.

Or, attempted more tackles than anyone else - despite lacking match fitness and 'couldn't keep up', 'struggled with the pace'.
Meanwhile Proctor misses 3 and is the messiah who needs to urgently replace one of our best players from the WC (and I say that as a long time Ioane doubter).

Read into those stats all you like but a couple of those misses weren't necessarily one on one misses. Proctor put himself into a few situations where, because of his high work rate off the ball he made a couple lunges on the next player out after covering the guy he was marking up on. Maybe he shouldn't have made those attempts and let the player who was meant to be covering those guys take the hit, but that's the sort of player Proctor is, he always pushes hard.

He's the best defensive centre in NZ and that's the biggest reason he's been picked.

He got easily stepped and beaten in the last play of the game.

What, the last play where he managed to nab back possession anyway? You’re really knit picking his performance.

The last scrum he was stepped and beaten on the inside. If it wasn't for ALB cleaning up, Fiji were on their way to the try line.

It think it was quite refreshing to have a centre actually executing the core skills of a centre. from the Canes.

Fixed.

How about focusing on the 98% of things he did well. I remember the play, Proctor was pushing out and the Fijian player stepped in so therefore he becomes ALB’s man. ALB actually missed him if you want to get technical.

LOL It's ALB's fault he didn't cover two men while Proctor got done like a dinner. I suppose it's easy to be considered a defensive genius when every tackle you miss was someone else's fault.

View image

The Fijian player passed back inside and that’s when the play broke down.

After ALB got a hand to it which is where the knock on call came from.

Face it mate, you’re trying to poke holes in Proctor’s solid debut performance because you know Ioane has pressure on him. If Ioane fails to perform Proctor will happily take his spot.

I'm happy that the All Blacks have competition for spots. I'm happy for Proctor to make his case. If he plays well enough I'm even happy for him to be rewarded appropriately.

I'm just getting sick of the delusions and rampant bias. He played reasonably well against Fiji and you're trying to pretend that should be the basis for him replacing Ioane who played against England ffs.

See my comment above, I’ve literally said if Ioane can get back to his best he should hold that jersey being the incumbent. There’s no bias on my part. As a Canes fan I’m obviously stoked for Proctor, he played bloody well but Ioane deserves another opportunity to show why he’s been our first choice for the last few years. Hopefully he can get that passing game going again. I care about the ABs reaching their full potential, it’s only a good thing that we have guys competing for jerseys because it will ensure players are on notice and don’t take their jerseys for granted. I want Ioane to start in the next test so he has an opportunity to counter. Both Proctor and Ioane have their strengths at the end of the day, as long as they bring the best out of each other, that’s what I care about and that’s something that Razor will be trying to do across all positions.

Same goes with ALB and Jordie, Jordie’s shown that he has lapses in concentration throughout games and has a tendency to do dumb shit when it’s not necessary. ALB playing well the other day will put Jordie on notice and he’ll have to sharpen up aswell. Likewise with Aumua and Taylor, Hotham coming in and playing well will put guys like Christie on notice. It’s all good in my view.

@Bones said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@Bones said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

Tosi made almost as many tackles as Blackadder, Blackadder accounts for almost 20% of missed tackles.

Yeah he had a great game.

Or, attempted more tackles than anyone else - despite lacking match fitness and 'couldn't keep up', 'struggled with the pace'.
Meanwhile Proctor misses 3 and is the messiah who needs to urgently replace one of our best players from the WC (and I say that as a long time Ioane doubter).

Proctor was on debut and also not selected in the squad when not even fit ahead of guys in brilliant form.

I expect a lot more from a guy who gets put on such a pedestal that he's even allowed to work his way back to fitness from a starting position in the ABs when there's already fit guys that have shown just as much in black.

But yeah, he plays for the crusaders I guess.

So yeah, holding his selection against him when he wasn't the guy doing the selecting.

@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@Bones said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@Bones said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

Tosi made almost as many tackles as Blackadder, Blackadder accounts for almost 20% of missed tackles.

Yeah he had a great game.

Or, attempted more tackles than anyone else - despite lacking match fitness and 'couldn't keep up', 'struggled with the pace'.
Meanwhile Proctor misses 3 and is the messiah who needs to urgently replace one of our best players from the WC (and I say that as a long time Ioane doubter).

Proctor was on debut and also not selected in the squad when not even fit ahead of guys in brilliant form.

I expect a lot more from a guy who gets put on such a pedestal that he's even allowed to work his way back to fitness from a starting position in the ABs when there's already fit guys that have shown just as much in black.

But yeah, he plays for the crusaders I guess.

So yeah, holding his selection against him when he wasn't the guy doing the selecting.

Really good point. Consider me a convert then. It's not Christie's fault he's not very good, it's the selectors! So there's zero reason to select others instead of him, he's trying at least.

@MN5

Yup, the team who have beaten England and Australia in the last 9 months

@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@Bones said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

Tosi made almost as many tackles as Blackadder, Blackadder accounts for almost 20% of missed tackles.

Yeah he had a great game.

Or, attempted more tackles than anyone else - despite lacking match fitness and 'couldn't keep up', 'struggled with the pace'.
Meanwhile Proctor misses 3 and is the messiah who needs to urgently replace one of our best players from the WC (and I say that as a long time Ioane doubter).

Read into those stats all you like but a couple of those misses weren't necessarily one on one misses. Proctor put himself into a few situations where, because of his high work rate off the ball he made a couple lunges on the next player out after covering the guy he was marking up on. Maybe he shouldn't have made those attempts and let the player who was meant to be covering those guys take the hit, but that's the sort of player Proctor is, he always pushes hard.

He's the best defensive centre in NZ and that's the biggest reason he's been picked.

He got easily stepped and beaten in the last play of the game.

What, the last play where he managed to nab back possession anyway? You’re really knit picking his performance.

It think it was quite refreshing to have a centre actually executing the core skills of a centre.

It was. Proctor had an outstanding game. Of course against limited opposition but he couldn't have done more

Two of his misses were, as you said, VG attempts. Unsure about the third miss

@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

He played reasonably well against Fiji

So one rating was 9/10. Another 8/10. Don't agree with all rating but maybe you need to understand centre play better. Or watch more closely

13 Billy Proctor: Player of the match on debut and some warning to Rieko Ioane that his jersey is not safe. Proctor looked potent as if he was going to cut through the defence with every carry, beating eight defenders and nearly making 100 metres with the ball. This all culminated in a try and two try assists for a man who has just made Scott Robertson’s selection process a lot harder. A remarkably good start to his Test career. 9

I thought Proctor was great but kudos to ALB for giving him some quality ball and space.

Ahh the joys of statistics.
EB tackles 7/4 horrific and almost 20% of all missed tackles
Aumua great performance but still only has a 50% tackle rate.
Not happy for a 7 to have a 7/4 tackle rate but equally amazed that a hooker only manages 50%

It was such a different game from the last two weeks, pressure, space, defensive approach that its very hard to compare the performances.

Well done the new guys who had their chances and performed well though.

@Lancaster-Park At least the lineout functioned!

@Machpants said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@Lancaster-Park At least the lineout functioned!

Itoje wasn't playing for Fiji, and I don't remember Fiji competing in the lineouts too often. Let's wait until the RC before knowing if the lineout is functioning.

@Bovidae said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@Machpants said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@Lancaster-Park At least the lineout functioned!

Itoje wasn't playing for Fiji, and I don't remember Fiji competing in the lineouts too often. Let's wait until the RC before knowing if the (insert aspect of the game) is functioning

This feels like the comment that should be on auto reply to anyone blowing Proctor or any of the players (even my boy ALB).

Fiji barely showed up and had almost no line speed. Unsurprisingly, our backs looked a million dollars with plenty of clean front-foot ball and no rush defence.

@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@Bovidae said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@Machpants said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@Lancaster-Park At least the lineout functioned!

Itoje wasn't playing for Fiji, and I don't remember Fiji competing in the lineouts too often. Let's wait until the RC before knowing if the (insert aspect of the game) is functioning

This feels like the comment that should be on auto reply to anyone blowing Proctor or any of the players (even my boy ALB).

Fiji barely showed up and had almost no line speed. Unsurprisingly, our backs looked a million dollars with plenty of clean front-foot ball and no rush defence.

yeah, yeah I know that, but MY player was amazing! Didn't you see them!

@Winger said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

He played reasonably well against Fiji

So one rating was 9/10. Another 8/10. Don't agree with all rating but maybe you need to understand centre play better. Or watch more closely

Given I played at centre more than any other position I feel I understand it well enough.

Again for the slow: It was a game destined to make the All Blacks look competent when contrasted against the England series. The team that played against England would've revelled in the acres of time and space afforded them by Fiji's defence.

But maybe you need to understand rugby better, or watch more closely.

@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

There are times when I come here and feel like I must have watched a completely different game to others.
Thought Blackadder was good. He showed more running and linking than any loose forward in our first 3 tests. Yes, short of a gallop, but that's to be expected. Yeah, it's only an understrength Fiji. But for chrissakes people are claiming he lost the ball twice because he made ground and the cleaners didn't get there? terrible play getting yourself isolated with all that go-forward that people have been crying out for there mate, better reign it in.
Sititi looked good too, but needs an even stronger disclaimer as that's against an understrength Fiji that were beaten about 40 minutes before he even took the field.
Jacobson won some lineouts; against an understrength Fiji who weren't really competing. Doesn't really strike me as a compelling argument. I don't really see why you would pick all three of Dalton, Cane, Jacobson.
Proctor is getting raved about, but I saw several instances where he didn't find his outsides - pretty similar to those that created discussion of Ioane being dropped last week...against a far better side. I thought he played solidly, and generally a debutante choosing to hang onto the ball rather than throw a pass he's not confident of isn't a bad thing - but fuck me the provincial bias in posting is strong this year.
ALB was good.
Clarke was good.
Aumua was good.
Hope Ratima's head is okay.

Don't agree with all points, (thought EB was below par) but plenty enough for an upvote.

@DaGrubster said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@MN5

Yup, the team who have beaten England and Australia in the last 9 months

Worth a mention but the gap between the top five and the rest is pretty big these days

@nzzp Pretty much what this thread has become.

@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@Winger said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

He played reasonably well against Fiji

So one rating was 9/10. Another 8/10. Don't agree with all rating but maybe you need to understand centre play better. Or watch more closely

Given I played at centre more than any other position I feel I understand it well enough.

Again for the slow: **It was a game destined to make the All Blacks look competent when contrasted against the England series * . The team that played against England would've revelled in the acres of time and space afforded them by Fiji's defence. *

But maybe you need to understand rugby better, or watch more closely.

Can sort of agree with this (but that wasn't the issue). But what about Reece. And even in a game like this players can still show skills they have that others lack. Like Proctor and his distribution and decision making. Maybe these will desert Proctor in a tight match but I hope he starts next match so we can see

@African-Monkey said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@nzzp Pretty much what this thread has become.

yeah, yeah I know, but MY posts are awesome and totally right

If we are going to move RI to the wing ....... which of the four current squad wings does he replace?

@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

yeah, yeah I know that, but MY player was amazing! Didn't you see them!

I thought all the All Blacks played good. But how good was Newell, Williams, Bell, Scott Barrett, Darry, Blackadder, Hotham, Reece

@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

yeah, yeah I know that, but MY player was amazing! Didn't you see them!

I thought all the All Blacks played good. But how good was Newell, Williams, Bell, Scott Barrett, Darry, Blackadder, Hotham, Reece

Darry?

@African-Monkey said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

yeah, yeah I know that, but MY player was amazing! Didn't you see them!

I thought all the All Blacks played good. But how good was Newell, Williams, Bell, Scott Barrett, Darry, Blackadder, Hotham, Reece

Darry?

Darry plays for Canterbury?

@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

yeah, yeah I know that, but MY player was amazing! Didn't you see them!

I thought all the All Blacks played good. But how good was Newell, Williams, Bell, Scott Barrett, Darry, Blackadder, Hotham, Reece

Made to look good by their North Island teammates...

@nostrildamus He does, just thought playing for the Blues may have worked against him.

@African-Monkey said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@nostrildamus He does, just thought playing for the Blues may have worked against him.

ACT Crusader seems as forgiving as he is open-minded..

@African-Monkey said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@nostrildamus He does, just thought playing for the Blues may have worked against him.

Only others would be so provincial…

@MN5 said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

And some of our props were shown up around the field by their replacements, boy we are lucky to have these 4, now to find more locks..

I’m assuming Newell is a terrific scrummager because he offers absolutely nothing else, even by the less than impressive standards of recent AB props.

When was the last time you saw Ox Nche, MM, Bongo, Dan Cole et al running through, over and around blokes and putting their centres through half gaps off tips?

@Frank said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

Can either Reiko or Clarke play 14, or can both only play 11?
With Clarke and Reiko you've got two big, very quick wingers.
With Proctor at 13, you've you got his provincial partnership with Jordie and a center who really looks to feed his wingers. Tempting, but probably won't happen.

Telea is a better 14 than 11.

I think the wing balance is wrong, the second best left winger in NZ is ENS. Left footed, has fullback skills. They have Clarke and the other three play mainly on the right wing don't they?

@LatsToTheMax said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@MN5 said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

And some of our props were shown up around the field by their replacements, boy we are lucky to have these 4, now to find more locks..

I’m assuming Newell is a terrific scrummager because he offers absolutely nothing else, even by the less than impressive standards of recent AB props.

When was the last time you saw Ox Nche, MM, Bongo, Dan Cole et al running through, over and around blokes and putting their centres through half gaps off tips?

Calm down Lats, I’m not expecting miracles. Just some basic competency.

@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

yeah, yeah I know that, but MY player was amazing! Didn't you see them!

I thought all the All Blacks played good. But how good was Newell, Williams, Bell, Scott Barrett, Darry, Blackadder, Hotham, Reece

Christchurch OB grammar?

@MN5 said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@LatsToTheMax said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@MN5 said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

And some of our props were shown up around the field by their replacements, boy we are lucky to have these 4, now to find more locks..

I’m assuming Newell is a terrific scrummager because he offers absolutely nothing else, even by the less than impressive standards of recent AB props.

When was the last time you saw Ox Nche, MM, Bongo, Dan Cole et al running through, over and around blokes and putting their centres through half gaps off tips?

Calm down Lats, I’m not expecting miracles. Just some basic competency.

I'm not the one tightening my knickers over FN.

@LatsToTheMax said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@MN5 said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@LatsToTheMax said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@MN5 said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

And some of our props were shown up around the field by their replacements, boy we are lucky to have these 4, now to find more locks..

I’m assuming Newell is a terrific scrummager because he offers absolutely nothing else, even by the less than impressive standards of recent AB props.

When was the last time you saw Ox Nche, MM, Bongo, Dan Cole et al running through, over and around blokes and putting their centres through half gaps off tips?

Calm down Lats, I’m not expecting miracles. Just some basic competency.

I'm not the one tightening my knickers over FN.

Hardly ’tightening knickers’ Lats, just an observation on a particular player which tends to happen quite frequently on here.

Only watched extended highlights but Proctor's ability to straighten the line and distribute gave me something of a horn.

@Bovidae said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

The big question is whether TJP is fit, as then they have a selection decision to make.

So my question above was answered, and it wasn't what most of us would have expected.

Ironically, if TJP wasn't injured in the 1st test vs England I don't think Ratima gets the opportunity to show the difference a quick pass makes compared to Christie.