@Chris-B said in Ta$man vs Wellington (RS):

@KiwiMurph said in Ta$man vs Wellington (RS):

@Dan54 I'm just glad Auckland get a challenge - first challenge since 2015

Pleased to do you guys a solid and get you a challenge - even if it's incidental to the main plan.

It's a bit shit in a 14 team competition that some teams can go 10 years without a challenge - and it would only take a minor bit of juggling and effort to ensure that didn't happen.

Perhaps not such a piss off when you've had the Shield for hundreds of challenges.

Plenty of big rugby fans in Ta$man who died before we won it!

Mate that'sthe beauty of the shield, you have to have luck to even get a challenge. Geez in 60s and 70s was nothing to miss a challenge for years.
The trouble with trying to ensure that everyone gets a challenge every couple of years (and one of the good things about it) is the fact we don't know who is going to have the shield after the first one of the year.

It's also why the records about the shortest RS tenures need to be taken in context. That is entirely dependent on the schedule as a team could still lose on their first defence, whether that be 6 days, 7 days or 14 days.

@sparky said in Ta$man vs Wellington (RS):

Wellington's defence and decision making under pressure were not good enough. Ta$man deserved winners.

Just finished watching. Man it’s frustrating seeing Garden-Bachop and Savea starting instead the form players in Clarke, Patafilo and Harkin. On top of that Higgins was sent back to the wing after looking so bloody dangerous at 12. Just dumb selections really.

Lakai was again probably our best player on the park, and Delany despite being very good in the first half, was a little quiet in the second. Maybe playing three games in one week didn’t help him but that’s Wellington’s fault for playing him on Wednesday.

In saying that, Wellington simply didn’t take their chances and Ta$man were the better side today.

@Dan54 It's not the 60s and 70s anymore.

What significance has the Shield got if Ta$man - the second best team in a decade - doesn't get a challenge in that decade? Auckland - the largest provincial union - doesn't get a challenge for a decade?

Quite easy to ensure that the team with the longest wait gets a challenge.

It is ridiculous!

@Duluth Judging by highlights Sam Matenga, Ta$man TH, would be a useful addition to a Super squad.

How beautifully old fashioned.

Afternoon footy, qaint provincial ground with the kid's crowd invasion.

And the bumpkins beat up the big city cousins.

Love rugby.

Only bad thing is that young winger has already played for Tonga...

@Chris-B said in Ta$man vs Wellington (RS):

list of teams that have never won the NPC

Would be interested in said list.

@booboo said in Ta$man vs Wellington (RS):

@Chris-B said in Ta$man vs Wellington (RS):

list of teams that have never won the NPC

Would be interested in said list.

Might develop said list when sitting at puter.

Got a list of winners so can eliminate from there.

From Wikipedia: 18 Provinces have won it. Two don't exist anymore (one split, one amalgamated), and one was called something else the four times they won it, and have never won it under their new name.

@booboo said in Ta$man vs Wellington (RS):

And the bumpkins beat up the big city cousins.

I mean.... Ta$man

@Chris-B said in Ta$man vs Wellington (RS):

@Dan54 It's not the 60s and 70s anymore.

What significance has the Shield got if Ta$man - the second best team in a decade - doesn't get a challenge in that decade? Auckland - the largest provincial union - doesn't get a challenge for a decade?

Quite easy to ensure that the team with the longest wait gets a challenge.

It is ridiculous!

I not sure how you would do it thogh Chris. The fact the shield moves as soon as a new winner comes along is the problem. I still maintain it's one of the beauties of the shield. The shields signficance is just that, all your ducks have to be in a row to a; get a challenge and b; actually win the thing.
I understand the frustration of not getting challenges for your team, but the shield has never ever been about the best team per se, but the best team when it a shield fixture!
And long may it continue for mine!

The commentators didn't mention it AFAIK but Jamie Joseph was shown sitting amongst the crowd.

@Bovidae yeah they did

Really disappointed in that game from Wellington. Enough chances but couldn't finish.

Love I thought played poorly. Similar to the Canes semi against the Chiefs. His run or kick decision making is often off. Hopefully learns from it as his aerial and running game is very good.

Not normally one to mention the ref but gee he was poor first half.

@Dan54 How about - if you haven't had a challenge for five years, you automatically get the first challenge of the NPC season.

In a supposedly professional competition, where the Shield is one of the biggest money-spinners it is grossly negligent of NZ Rugby to allow teams to go for a decade without a challenge.

@Chris-B Yep-Nah mate, means you change the NPC etc. I understand your desire mate, but we have changed enough shit without stuffing the Shield around. You will then get argument that if more than one team haven't had a challenge for 5 years etc etc. There is no perfect way of doing it, and we will agree to disagree. The shield concept was never meant to be about sharing it around.

@Dan54 I wonder if you'd be so relaxed if Taranaki didn't get a challenge for the next 10 years?

Next one in 2034.

What I'm suggesting is a pretty minor and easily implemented change.

And the simple fact is that it is not by chance that Ta$man and Auckland missed so many years.

In the years that the Shield bounced around the Championship - and with Razor's Canterbury winning the Premiership almost every year - the selection of crossover games meant Canterbury always picked the Shield holder - and the Shield holders always picked the weakest Premiership teams possible. Teams like Waikato got regularly rewarded for losing - Ta$man and Auckland got punished for being good.

I don't think it's outrageous to suggest that you perhaps put all teams into a hat, weighted by time since last challenge, and then randomly draw to determine order of challenges.

Of course, as soon as the shield is lost it goes out the window until the off season, but would at least mean the teams who've gone the longest without a challenge have the highest chance of first crack in the new season.

Bloody hell the Invitational XV hold the Shield for one challenge and @Chris-B appoints himself the RS commissioner.

I think this is accurate

Aucklands record shield reign - 2926 days
Days in between challenges this time - 3295 days

@Nepia Pointing out the same stuff I was pointing out five years ago.

But now from a position of strength!

@Duluth In the time since you guys last had a challenge, according to my quick count:

Waikato and Southland have had 6 challenges.
Harbour and Manawatu have had five.
Otago and Taranaki have had four.

BoP has had one! Northland has had 2.

Everyone else in the NPC has had 3.

@Chris-B

Also Auckland had a five year gap before their last challenge. So it's one challenge in 14 years

Unless every PU plays all the other unions each year you are always at the mercy of the draw, and the schedule. Even putting the RS aside, it's not like there is an even spread of home and away games between the same PUs over the last decade either (e.g., Northland played in Hamilton in a regular season game this year for the first time since 2013).

@Duluth
I think this is accurate

Ta$man's record shield reign - 9 days
Days in between challenges 2012-2021 - 3325 days

@Chris-B said in Ta$man vs Wellington (RS):

@Dan54 I wonder if you'd be so relaxed if Taranaki didn't get a challenge for the next 10 years?

Next one in 2034.

What I'm suggesting is a pretty minor and easily implemented change.

And the simple fact is that it is not by chance that Ta$man and Auckland missed so many years.

In the years that the Shield bounced around the Championship - and with Razor's Canterbury winning the Premiership almost every year - the selection of crossover games meant Canterbury always picked the Shield holder - and the Shield holders always picked the weakest Premiership teams possible. Teams like Waikato got regularly rewarded for losing - Ta$man and Auckland got punished for being good.

Mate I lived in Horowhenua for many years without a shield challenge, and never thought anything of it. And tell me are only the top teams allowed to challenge? The fact is what makes the shield special is it's history etc. As for the cossover games, it all depends where you end up on the table, the teams don't select them. Ta$man can't moan, they won the shield within 18 years of being formed! Stuff any idea of handing it around so we all get a share, the shield will lose it's gloss within 5 years!

Isn't the current system (at the mercy of the draw) a lot more palatable than situations pre-NPC when some provinces would pick and choose their challengers? I can't remember which province it was that was accused of overly protecting the shield through strategic selection of challengers, but there was one.

The Ranfurly Shield is full of quirks - the way one team might get three challenges in a season (North Harbour I think one year) while another might not get a challenge for nine like Ta$man is just another quirk. If the holder gets toppled, the butterfly effect might mean the above scenarios get flipped on their head and Ta$man could have ended up with three challenges next year (if the shield had changed hands this year). As Bruce Hornsby sings, that's just the way it is.

I'm a bit surprised how quickly @Chris-B has turned into Grant Dalton. Looking forward to Ta$man taking any future defences to Barcelona.

@Duluth said in Ta$man vs Wellington (RS):

@Chris-B

Also Auckland had a five year gap before their last challenge. So it's one challenge in 14 years

I was quite enjoying seeing Auckland miss out on challenges year after year, now we actually have one!

@Smudge said in Ta$man vs Wellington (RS):

Isn't the current system (at the mercy of the draw) a lot more palatable than situations pre-NPC when some provinces would pick and choose their challengers? I can't remember which province it was that was accused of overly protecting the shield through strategic selection of challengers, but there was one.

The Ranfurly Shield is full of quirks - the way one team might get three challenges in a season (North Harbour I think one year) while another might not get a challenge for nine like Ta$man is just another quirk. If the holder gets toppled, the butterfly effect might mean the above scenarios get flipped on their head and Ta$man could have ended up with three challenges next year (if the shield had changed hands this year). As Bruce Hornsby sings, that's just the way it is.

I'm a bit surprised how quickly @Chris-B has turned into Grant Dalton. Looking forward to Ta$man taking any future defences to Barcelona.

Yeah, until very very recently it was up to the holder to select challengers.

IIRC your end of the country conspired to keep it down there floating between Otago and Southland for a number of years

That may be why I didn't want to delve too much further into my research...

@Dan54 said in Ta$man vs Wellington (RS):

@Chris-B said in Ta$man vs Wellington (RS):

Mate I lived in Horowhenua for many years without a shield challenge, and never thought anything of it. And tell me are only the top teams allowed to challenge? The fact is what makes the shield special is it's history etc. As for the cossover games, it all depends where you end up on the table, the teams don't select them. Ta$man can't moan, they won the shield within 18 years of being formed! Stuff any idea of handing it around so we all get a share, the shield will lose it's gloss within 5 years!

That's part of the problem - the teams did select them! And it happened exactly as I wrote above - I railed about it here at the time. The Championship Shield holders picked the weakest Premiership teams. As usual NZR was asleep at the wheel - probably didn't notice and if they did they certainly didn't care.

Frankly - it would take a minor change to avoid teams having these long gaps so I think your arguments are pretty weak.

Right now, most teenagers in Auckland - the largest union - won't recall their team ever having had a challenge. I really fail to see how this is remotely a good thing.

If it were up to me, Auckland would get a guaranteed three-match tour of whichever province holds the Ranfurly Shield every year (which midweek games against club sides of course).

@Chris-B Mate it's the shield, and shit happens. As I said you want to change to something it never was and I like it being special. I want it to keep it's mistique,let's just leave it at that.
I enjoy tradional things in game and I think it's been changed enough.