@DaGrubster said in All Blacks v Japan:

@canefan said in All Blacks v Japan:

@kpkanz said in All Blacks v Japan:

@African-Monkey said in All Blacks v Japan:

@kpkanz said in All Blacks v Japan:

@pakman said in All Blacks v Japan:

If half AB squad go straight to UK we could see a hybrid like this:

Ofa/Bell/Tosi/Holland/Darry/Paps/Bladder/Sotutu/Roigard/Plummer/Havili/Proctor/Telea/Narewa/Perofeta

Plummer got outplayed by his counterpart in a NPC game on Wednesday against Ta$man. Genuinely shouldn't be near the squad.

More use having Perofeta start there, and maybe someone from the XVs having a go at fullback.

As @Bones said recently, Super Rugby form doesn't matter, but coming in at short notice for an NPC game when he's been away from the Auckland squad all year does?

There have been many other All Blacks who have come into NPC teams in recent weeks and immediately made an impact.

Plummers Super Rugby form was vastly overrated.

He was behind the most dominant forward pack in super rugby that mainly dominated through their pack. Even Plummers kicking percentage wasnt even that great.

Plummer wasn't first choice 10 at the Blues until Perofeta got injured. And he was only picked at 10 in the playoffs because Perofeta had to fill in for the injured Sullivan at fullback. The Blues were 6-1 with Perofeta starting at 10 so they seemed to be fine without Plummer at 10.

He failed to make any impact in the NPC games he has been in since. There is no way Beauden or Dmac walk into an NPC side with no time with the team and don't immediately take control of the team and game when they're playing.

I can't believe we're making excuses for prospective All Blacks not performing at NPC level.

That's an ice cold take if ever I saw one

Yes it is.

How much rugby has Plummer had in the last 3 months?

2 minutes in Wellington?

In terms of his run numbers in SR, the point was he's not a run first 10. I believe Razor is asking too much of DMac to run all the time, and that a good 10 should be able to pass to his midfield and let them go to work. Which Plummer was more likely to do with the Blues' gameplan

At the moment Razor is shoring up a bit of his time bringing back some of the guys who have gone offshore. Richie Mo and Shannon Frizzell will be big chess pieces. Next year's Superrugby will have to prioritizes getting quality 10s, hopefully by the time Richie comes back we don't need him, same could be said about Shannon in his position.

@SBW1 said in All Blacks v Japan:

Next year's Superrugby will have to prioritizes getting quality 10s, hopefully by the time Richie comes back we don't need him

Let's no pretend like Mounga isn't going to walk back into the 10 jersey given Razor is in charge.....

Hopefully none of the returning players are even needed for that matter.

@SBW1 said in All Blacks v Japan:

Hopefully none of the returning players are even needed for that matter.

We shouldn't have to lure players home (probably with big money offers). It sends the wrong message, and if they are diminished the pressure is on to play them anyway

Judging by the just announced squad of course Razor will welcome back Richie and Shannon next year ..

@canefan said in All Blacks v Japan:

@DaGrubster said in All Blacks v Japan:

@canefan said in All Blacks v Japan:

@kpkanz said in All Blacks v Japan:

@African-Monkey said in All Blacks v Japan:

@kpkanz said in All Blacks v Japan:

@pakman said in All Blacks v Japan:

If half AB squad go straight to UK we could see a hybrid like this:

Ofa/Bell/Tosi/Holland/Darry/Paps/Bladder/Sotutu/Roigard/Plummer/Havili/Proctor/Telea/Narewa/Perofeta

Plummer got outplayed by his counterpart in a NPC game on Wednesday against Ta$man. Genuinely shouldn't be near the squad.

More use having Perofeta start there, and maybe someone from the XVs having a go at fullback.

As @Bones said recently, Super Rugby form doesn't matter, but coming in at short notice for an NPC game when he's been away from the Auckland squad all year does?

There have been many other All Blacks who have come into NPC teams in recent weeks and immediately made an impact.

Plummers Super Rugby form was vastly overrated.

He was behind the most dominant forward pack in super rugby that mainly dominated through their pack. Even Plummers kicking percentage wasnt even that great.

Plummer wasn't first choice 10 at the Blues until Perofeta got injured. And he was only picked at 10 in the playoffs because Perofeta had to fill in for the injured Sullivan at fullback. The Blues were 6-1 with Perofeta starting at 10 so they seemed to be fine without Plummer at 10.

He failed to make any impact in the NPC games he has been in since. There is no way Beauden or Dmac walk into an NPC side with no time with the team and don't immediately take control of the team and game when they're playing.

I can't believe we're making excuses for prospective All Blacks not performing at NPC level.

That's an ice cold take if ever I saw one

Yes it is.

How much rugby has Plummer had in the last 3 months?

2 minutes in Wellington?

In terms of his run numbers in SR, the point was he's not a run first 10. I believe Razor is asking too much of DMac to run all the time, and that a good 10 should be able to pass to his midfield and let them go to work. Which Plummer was more likely to do with the Blues' gameplan

I mean I looked at the numbers and it just seems like the Blues ran their entire attack through halfback and close forwards to the ruck. And it seems like they specifically moved to this to the extreme when Perofeta first got injured and they realized it would be Plummer at 10.

Carries/passes per game from each 10 this year

Perofeta
Carries per game - 10.8
Passes per game - 21

Plummer
Carries per game - 6.4
Passes per game - 13

Dmac
Carries per game - 8.3
Passes per game - 27

Plummer is barely passing and barely running.

Which is what the eye test was saying really. The Blues channeled a vast majority of their attack through their big running forwards and the backs were occasionally used as battering rams by using cut out passes directly from the halfback, as opposed to any sort of orchestration from the 10.

@gt12 said in All Blacks v Japan:

Seriously, media types who are trawling here for story ideas, how about one on the fact that NZ rugby supposedly got all this cash to get them ultra professional, but cant even run a correct fixtures list that includes the next actual fixture?

I always use Wikipedia for rugby match schedules. Strangely, far more reliable. Thanks, anonymous internet users who are dedicating time of their lives for this!

On topic: Japan sucks. ABs will play a 2nd string side and narrowly win by 5 points.

@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v Japan:

@SBW1 said in All Blacks v Japan:

Next year's Superrugby will have to prioritizes getting quality 10s, hopefully by the time Richie comes back we don't need him

Let's no pretend like Mounga isn't going to walk back into the 10 jersey given Razor is in charge.....

Let's not pretend like he shouldn't.

@Canerbry It's a hot field of over-rated players, but he's right up there.

@reprobate said in All Blacks v Japan:

@Canerbry It's a hot field of over-rated players, but he's right up there.

But @Canerbry is right. Unless things drastically change RM will be one of the top two 10s.

I am more concerned about Frizzel.

@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks v Japan:

@reprobate said in All Blacks v Japan:

@Canerbry It's a hot field of over-rated players, but he's right up there.

But @Canerbry is right. Unless things drastically change RM will be one of the top two 10s.

I am more concerned about Frizzel.

I'd be very happy with Mo'unga on the bench, but I believe McKenzie is already the better player and will keep getting better. If he wants to come back to sit on the bench then that would be great as we do not have good depth at 10 - particularly for the style we are trying to play. 15 minutes at the end of games he would probably cause some problems for tiring defenders with his running game.

Frizzell played his best ever test last year, and we lack big 6s - which I guess is their thinking? If it were me, no way would I be throwing any money his way.

@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks v Japan:

@reprobate said in All Blacks v Japan:

@Canerbry It's a hot field of over-rated players, but he's right up there.

But @Canerbry is right. Unless things drastically change RM will be one of the top two 10s.

I am more concerned about Frizzel.

Concerned he'd be walk straight back in?

I find with Dmac all the creation is on his shoulders , his 12 and 13 are not great passes of the ball into space or holes so its up to Dmac to put them through as well as his wingers.
Traditionally we always had one of the centres that could play-make and the other smash bodies

@nostrildamus It will be surprising if Richie is back for next year's SuperRugby season. What is the news on Shannon?

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v Japan:

@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks v Japan:

@reprobate said in All Blacks v Japan:

@Canerbry It's a hot field of over-rated players, but he's right up there.

But @Canerbry is right. Unless things drastically change RM will be one of the top two 10s.

I am more concerned about Frizzel.

Concerned he'd be walk straight back in?

Yep. He will add depth and that's nothing to sniff at, but we have alternatives to Frizzell that are just as good, if not better.

@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks v Japan:

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v Japan:

@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks v Japan:

@reprobate said in All Blacks v Japan:

@Canerbry It's a hot field of over-rated players, but he's right up there.

But @Canerbry is right. Unless things drastically change RM will be one of the top two 10s.

I am more concerned about Frizzel.

Concerned he'd be walk straight back in?

Yep. He will add depth and that's nothing to sniff at, but we have alternatives to Frizzell that are just as good, if not better.

Depth is fine, as long as they don't pay him superstar money to get him back in the fold

@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks v Japan:

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v Japan:

@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks v Japan:

@reprobate said in All Blacks v Japan:

@Canerbry It's a hot field of over-rated players, but he's right up there.

But @Canerbry is right. Unless things drastically change RM will be one of the top two 10s.

I am more concerned about Frizzel.

Concerned he'd be walk straight back in?

Yep. He will add depth and that's nothing to sniff at, but we have alternatives to Frizzell that are just as good, if not better.

I'm no massive fan of Luke Jacobsen, but I think he's just as good, if not better than Frizzell.

I'm guessing the team will be something like:

Ofa T, Bell, Tosi, Darry, Lord, Finau, Blackadder; Jacobson (C), Roigard, Perofeta, Telea, Tupaea, Proctor, Narawa, Love

Eklund, Numia, Renata, Holland, Sotutu, Hotham, Plummer, Havili

@sparky said in All Blacks v Japan:

I'm guessing the team will be something like:

Ofa T, Bell, Tosi, Darry, Lord, Finau, Blackadder; Jacobson (C), Roigard, Perofeta, Telea, Tupaea, Proctor, Narawa, Love

Eklund, Numia, Renata, Holland, Sotutu, Holland, Plummer, Havili

I don't think Razor is that adventurous, for starters Jordie will play and be C. I reckon there will be a fair few first choice players

I'm expecting only the likely starters against England to go there early. There are plenty of reserves and some others like Papalii who need time on the field.

I thought I read he said up to 6 AB XV players to play Japan?
It's not like we are a well-oiled machine, and with a team like that you'd achieve nothing really. You could roll that out for Italy, but Japan is our warm-up.
Would be good to see the guys with limited starting experience like Jordan at 15 get more time. And then to try a few combinations for shit that hasn't been working well or needs a run e.g: Roigard - Mckenzie, Jordie - Proctor (or ALB - Ioane), and - someone other than Cane at 7 and some one other than Ardie at 8.

Robertson won't do what I want though, no matter how many times I say it on here - hard to believe really, pretty arrogant of him.

@reprobate said in All Blacks v Japan:

I thought I read he said up to 6 AB XV players to play Japan?
It's not like we are a well-oiled machine, and with a team like that you'd achieve nothing really. You could roll that out for Italy, but Japan is our warm-up.
Would be good to see the guys with limited starting experience like Jordan at 15 get more time. And then to try a few combinations for shit that hasn't been working well or needs a run e.g: Roigard - Mckenzie, Jordie - Proctor (or ALB - Ioane), and - someone other than Cane at 7 and some one other than Ardie at 8.

Robertson won't do what I want though, no matter how many times I say it on here - hard to believe really, pretty arrogant of him.

Sounds like Fozzie when he rolled all the subs out to start against Aussie in Dunedin. But he has three tough games in three weeks. I can't see him playing the same team in all three

@canefan said in All Blacks v Japan:

I can't see him playing the same team in all three

Razor: hold my beer

@pakman said in All Blacks v Japan:

If half AB squad go straight to UK we could see a hybrid like this:

Ofa/Bell/Tosi/Holland/Darry/Paps/Bladder/Sotutu/Roigard/Plummer/Havili/Proctor/Telea/Narewa/Perofeta

I can still see IWL/Holland/Lord getting a run at lock, although for me Darry and Lord not TH locks.

And Plummer makes sense if DMac and Beaudy kept on ice.

Narewa is straight forward 14 insertion, but Reece may be given a run.

Seems Jordie pencilled in to captain, injury permitting.

Loosies are where there is plenty of room for conjecture.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Naitoa Ah Kuoi in this on the becnh, covers lock and blindside and definitely offers impact. If it works, proves useful for NH games

@canefan said in All Blacks v Japan:

@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks v Japan:

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v Japan:

@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks v Japan:

@reprobate said in All Blacks v Japan:

@Canerbry It's a hot field of over-rated players, but he's right up there.

But @Canerbry is right. Unless things drastically change RM will be one of the top two 10s.

I am more concerned about Frizzel.

Concerned he'd be walk straight back in?

Yep. He will add depth and that's nothing to sniff at, but we have alternatives to Frizzell that are just as good, if not better.

Depth is fine, as long as they don't pay him superstar money to get him back in the fold

Or DMac says "fuck this shit, I'm off to do a Mounga"

@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Japan:

@canefan said in All Blacks v Japan:

@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks v Japan:

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v Japan:

@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks v Japan:

@reprobate said in All Blacks v Japan:

@Canerbry It's a hot field of over-rated players, but he's right up there.

But @Canerbry is right. Unless things drastically change RM will be one of the top two 10s.

I am more concerned about Frizzel.

Concerned he'd be walk straight back in?

Yep. He will add depth and that's nothing to sniff at, but we have alternatives to Frizzell that are just as good, if not better.

Depth is fine, as long as they don't pay him superstar money to get him back in the fold

Or DMac says "fuck this shit, I'm off to do a Mounga"

DMac he has been given plenty of opportunities to make the first five spot his and will Have more over the next year.
If he hasn’t by 2026 then he probably should go off shore,

@sparky said in All Blacks v Japan:

I'm guessing the team will be something like:

Ofa T, Bell, Tosi, Darry, Lord, Finau, Blackadder; Jacobson (C), Roigard, Perofeta, Telea, Tupaea, Proctor, Narawa, Love

Eklund, Numia, Renata, Holland, Sotutu, Hotham, Plummer, Havili

This is an AB Test match, not a ABXV tour game.

I don't think the top 23 will travel directly to England - maybe a dozen or so players. Some others need minutes before taking on England.

I'm expecting a line-up of...

1 Ofa Tu'ungafasi
2 Asafo Aumua**
3 Pasilio Tosi
4 Patrick Tuipulotu
5 Sam Darry
6 Ethan Blackadder**
7 Dalton Papali'i
8 Luke Jacobson
9 Cam Roigard**
10 Damian McKenzie**
11 Mark Tele'a
12 Jordie Barrett**
13 Billy Proctor
14 (Emoni Narawa)
15 Ruben Love

16 George Bell
17 (George Bower)
18 Fletcher Newell**
19 (Josh Lord)
20 Samipeni Finau
21 TJ Perenara
22 Stephen Perofeta
23 David Havili

() - ABs XV additions
** - top 23 players

@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks v Japan:

I don't think the top 23 will travel directly to England - maybe a dozen or so players. Some others need minutes before taking on England.

I'm expecting a line-up of...

1 Ofa Tu'ungafasi
2 Asafo Aumua**
3 Pasilio Tosi
4 Patrick Tuipulotu
5 Sam Darry
6 Ethan Blackadder**
7 Dalton Papali'i
8 Luke Jacobson
9 Cam Roigard**
10 Damian McKenzie**
11 Mark Tele'a
12 Jordie Barrett**
13 Billy Proctor
14 (Emoni Narawa)
15 Ruben Love

16 George Bell
17 (George Bower)
18 Fletcher Newell**
19 (Josh Lord)
20 Samipeni Finau
21 TJ Perenara
22 Stephen Perofeta
23 David Havili

() - ABs XV additions
** - top 23 players

That I reckon is a closer guess

@booboo It will be good enough to beat Japan and meanwhile in the top 23 will be in Europe acclimatising to the interesting weather we've been having. ️

@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks v Japan:

I don't think the top 23 will travel directly to England - maybe a dozen or so players. Some others need minutes before taking on England.

I'm expecting a line-up of...

1 Ofa Tu'ungafasi
2 Asafo Aumua**
3 Pasilio Tosi
4 Patrick Tuipulotu
5 Sam Darry
6 Ethan Blackadder**
7 Dalton Papali'i
8 Luke Jacobson
9 Cam Roigard**
10 Damian McKenzie**
11 Mark Tele'a
12 Jordie Barrett**
13 Billy Proctor
14 (Emoni Narawa)
15 Ruben Love

16 George Bell
17 (George Bower)
18 Fletcher Newell**
19 (Josh Lord)
20 Samipeni Finau
21 TJ Perenara
22 Stephen Perofeta
23 David Havili

() - ABs XV additions
** - top 23 players

So you reckon they are starting slowdy barretts x3 for the big games

@Machpants said in All Blacks v Japan:

@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks v Japan:

I don't think the top 23 will travel directly to England - maybe a dozen or so players. Some others need minutes before taking on England.

I'm expecting a line-up of...

1 Ofa Tu'ungafasi
2 Asafo Aumua**
3 Pasilio Tosi
4 Patrick Tuipulotu
5 Sam Darry
6 Ethan Blackadder**
7 Dalton Papali'i
8 Luke Jacobson
9 Cam Roigard**
10 Damian McKenzie**
11 Mark Tele'a
12 Jordie Barrett**
13 Billy Proctor
14 (Emoni Narawa)
15 Ruben Love

16 George Bell
17 (George Bower)
18 Fletcher Newell**
19 (Josh Lord)
20 Samipeni Finau
21 TJ Perenara
22 Stephen Perofeta
23 David Havili

() - ABs XV additions
** - top 23 players

So you reckon they are starting slowdy barretts x3 for the big games

I think BB will be in the 23, either at fullback or on the bench.

I imagine McKenzie will be back at 10 and suspect will need some decent minutes there before the England game.

@sparky said in All Blacks v Japan:

@booboo It will be good enough to beat Japan and meanwhile in the top 23 will be in Europe acclimatising to the interesting weather we've been having. ️

How do you acclimatise when it changes every half hour at the moment?

Will be interesting to see the travelling squad for Japan likely confirmed this week.

Ethan Blackadder (calf), Luke Jacobson (fractured thumb) and Dalton Papali'i (upper hamstring) will not be available to travel with the squad on Thursday due to injury. That has created an opportunity for 21 year old Hurricanes and Wellington loose forward Peter Lakai, and 23 year old Chiefs and Taranaki lock Josh Lord to come into the squad.

And the extra seven are:

Bradley Slater (Hooker / 26 / Chiefs / Taranaki)
George Bower (Prop / 32 / Crusaders / Otago)
Fabian Holland (Lock / 21 / Highlanders / Otago)
Christian Lio-Willie (Loose forward / 26 / Crusaders / Otago)
Oliver Haig (Loose forward / 22 / Highlanders / Otago)
Harry Plummer (First five-eighth / 26 / Blues / Auckland)
AJ Lam (Mid-fielder / 26 / Blues / Auckland)

@Bovidae said in All Blacks v Japan:

And the extra seven are:

Bradley Slater (Hooker / 26 / Chiefs / Taranaki)
George Bower (Prop / 32 / Crusaders / Otago)
Fabian Holland (Lock / 21 / Highlanders / Otago)
Christian Lio-Willie (Loose forward / 26 / Crusaders / Otago)
Oliver Haig (Loose forward / 22 / Highlanders / Otago)
Harry Plummer (First five-eighth / 26 / Blues / Auckland)
AJ Lam (Mid-fielder / 26 / Blues / Auckland)

So all guys that aren't involved in NPC finals. Great news.

Thank goodness. As much as Lakai deserves an AB cap I'd have been gutted if he was taken out of the Lions. He'll get plenty of caps in future.