@reprobate said in Springboks v Barbarians:

@Victor-Meldrew said in Springboks v Barbarians:

@Darren said in Springboks v Barbarians:

Well thats a bummer then, was hoping for better from LF
Any standouts?

JRK looked solid. Good on D and made a few turnovers. Lachlan Boshier was carded for a head contact but was terrific - particularly the breakdown. Jacomb started with a 'mare but had a pretty good game considering his pack was going backwards much of the time.

Bit of a one-sided shit game really.

Boshier was the best player in NZ at the breakdown for quite a long time, but never got a look in at a higher level because Foster (and the Fern) decided that aspect of the game wasn't important anymore.
Always seemed to me it wasn't important anymore mostly because Pocock was better at it than we were.

How many games did Boshier play in SR between 2019 and 2024?

I thought it was minimal (20 or so) and mostly as a sub.before he headed off to Japan.

@Victor-Meldrew said in Springboks v Barbarians:

@reprobate said in Springboks v Barbarians:

@Victor-Meldrew said in Springboks v Barbarians:

@Darren said in Springboks v Barbarians:

Well thats a bummer then, was hoping for better from LF
Any standouts?

JRK looked solid. Good on D and made a few turnovers. Lachlan Boshier was carded for a head contact but was terrific - particularly the breakdown. Jacomb started with a 'mare but had a pretty good game considering his pack was going backwards much of the time.

Bit of a one-sided shit game really.

Boshier was the best player in NZ at the breakdown for quite a long time, but never got a look in at a higher level because Foster (and the Fern) decided that aspect of the game wasn't important anymore.
Always seemed to me it wasn't important anymore mostly because Pocock was better at it than we were.

How many games did Boshier play in SR between 2019 and 2024?

I thought it was minimal (20 or so) and mostly as a sub.before he headed off to Japan.

You must be thinking of someone else?

Boshier debuted in 2015, started 11 matches across his first three seasons (28 appearances in total), and then started pretty much every match he was available for from that point on until he departed at the end of the 2021 Super Rugby Trans- Ta$man season (32 starts in 33 matches).

@Mr-Fish

At my age, my memory only goes back 5 years.... Guess I'll need to find a Stats website....

@brodean said in Springboks v Barbarians:

Beehre and Sotutu both played well and matched the Bok physicality well.

Yeah I though Beehre looked comfortable at this level. He plays like a taller version of S Barrett.

@Victor-Meldrew said in Springboks v Barbarians:

@Mr-Fish

At my age, my memory only goes back 5 years.... Guess I'll need to find a Stats website....

You might be thinking of his brother?

@Duluth said in Springboks v Barbarians:

@brodean said in Springboks v Barbarians:

Beehre and Sotutu both played well and matched the Bok physicality well.

Yeah I though Beehre looked comfortable at this level. He plays like a taller version of S Barrett.

A touch more size and experience and he's a test AB.
Love his hard nosed attitude. Could he play 6?

Google might need to update his weight.

@Frank

Maybe. Lock is his correct position though.

118kg and should be able to get a few more kgs on that frame

Watching him play, it doesn't seem like he needs more weight to me.

@Bones

Yeah he's not small. I just think he'll wind up larger. It looks like he is still adding quality weight between competitions

@Frank said in Springboks v Barbarians:

Google might need to update his weight.

View image

Some might consider that a bit lean but think how easy he'll be to lift in the lineouts.

@Duluth said in Springboks v Barbarians:

Yeah I though Beehre looked comfortable at this level. He plays like a taller version of S Barrett.

Interestingly, Beehre did replace Peter O'Mahony. So the Barbarians played with Ribbans, Van Heerden and Beehre on the field together for the final 20 minutes.

What I like about Beehre is his decisiveness: when he sees an opportunity he doesn't hesitate to take it, which I think is a quality that translates very well to Test rugby. He's also quite light on his feet which makes him more of an attacking threat at 6, unlike Barrett who can be a bit heavy-footed in my opinion.

Agreed that he looked comfortable. I also thought it was noticeable how aggressive Sotutu was at the attacking breakdown, something he's been criticized about before. It would be good to see him get another shot for the ABs, however unlikely.

@Mauss said in Springboks v Barbarians:

Agreed that he looked comfortable. I also thought it was noticeable how aggressive Sotutu was at the attacking breakdown, something he's been criticized about before. It would be good to see him get another shot for the ABs, however unlikely.

I didn't see the game, how did Sotutu compare to Frizell?

They both looked bang average. In fairness to Sotutu he was playing in a well beaten pack. But he didn’t seem to take the fight to the boks which is what I’d have expected from a guy playing to prove something to the selectors.

Edit to add that whatever @Mauss saw from Sotutu at the breakdown was too subtle for me. Nothing like another Auckland 8 criticized for being afraid of doing the hard graft, Zinny, getting stuck into the bok pack when they got the upper hand in Joburg in 97 say

@Smuts said in Springboks v Barbarians:

They both looked bang average. In fairness to Sotutu he was playing in a well beaten pack. But he didn’t seem to take the fight to the boks which is what I’d have expected from a guy playing to prove something to the selectors.

Edit to add that whatever @Mauss saw from Sotutu at the breakdown was too subtle for me. Nothing like another Auckland 8 criticized for being afraid of doing the hard graft, Zinny, getting stuck into the bok pack when they got the upper hand in Joburg in 97 say

I’ll agree that it was probably too subtle to make much of a difference in terms of selection. It just looked, to me, like he was trying to make some small adjustments to his game.

I’ve always interpreted the selectors’ critiques of Sotutu as being an issue of body height, especially around the breakdown and contact. Sotutu has a tendency to stay on his feet as much as he can, even when he’s cleaning the ruck, in order to ‘stay alive’ on attack and remain a viable support option. The problem is that this kind of cleaning can lead to weak shoulders and underpowered cleans.

In the game, I saw a few rucks where Sotutu actually went off his feet (in a good way), making dominant cleans with his shoulder. It might not be anything at all, but I felt like Sotutu has made an effort throughout the SR season to adjust his body height, in trying to be more effective around the attacking breakdown and play a more conventional loose forward-role in those areas.

I don’t think Sotutu is ever going to be a number 8 who revels in the nitty-gritty of Test rugby, and I’m pretty sure he’s not going to become Zinzan Brooke all of a sudden. You select Sotutu for his carrying abilities, lineout work and his unique vision and skills on attack. I think it’s pretty clear now what he does and doesn’t offer.