@brodean said in All Blacks Vs France, Test One, Dunedin:

@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks Vs France, Test One, Dunedin:

@No-Quarter said in All Blacks Vs France, Test One, Dunedin:

Also, the trio would look a LOT stronger (both ability and physically) with Hoskins at 8...

Hot take, Lio Willie is a better fit than Sotutu for how we will play. Think Rodders.

Hopefully the style of play won't be similar to the 2007 RWC quarter against France.

Given it’s not a RWC or Barnes, thinking June series 2007 where we put a hundred points on the French

@mariner4life said in All Blacks Vs France, Test One, Dunedin:

@upthelanders said in All Blacks Vs France, Test One, Dunedin:

So going by @george33 the team is most likely:

Ethan De Groot
Codie Taylor
Tyrell Lomax
Fabian Holland
Scott Barrett
Tupou Vaa’i
Ardie Savea
Christian Lio-Willie

Cam Roigard
Beauden Barrett
Reiko Ioane
Jordie Barrett
Billy Proctor
Sevu Reece
Dmac/Ruben Love

…?

by fuck are we lucky that the real French team isn't coming, that seems just a little ordinary. A huge gamble on players finding form that might be years old, or immediately stepping up.

Probably just as good as the side that lost by a point in Paris !

And shouldve fucking won!

Holland is basically a young brodie retallick but heavier. Thats why they want him starting

Holland isn't as nasty as Guzzler was.

Holland's a big unit with a big engine but he isn't as menacing.

I don't think the Vaa'i selection is ideal but I'd agree with the selectors that drastic changes were needed for the loose forward-trio. Looking back at last year's Test matches, it's rather obvious now how underpowered they were, which severely hampered the way the ABs wanted to play.

And while I don't think Vaa'i is a particularly natural 6, what he does do well is carry and make metres around the ruck. He should work well together with someone like Lio-Willie in pressuring the French pillar defence. The AB coaches need to find ways to create more space out wide and condensing the defence by going up the middle is one typical way of doing it.

Liam Napier was suggesting four debuts: Holland, Lio-Willie, Kirifi, Tavatavanawai

I don't mind the Vaa'i selection it gives us a big forward pack with Holland starting,Vaa'i could be an imposing figure at 6, I am interested to see how it goes ,Vaa'i is a better player than he was when tried at 6 in that one game.

Vaa'i finished the game at 6 against SA in that Mt Smart test, which would seem a more sensible option than starting him there.

Shows they don't rate Finau much.

I am surprised Finau or CLW aren't there at 6.

@brodean said in All Blacks Vs France, Test One, Dunedin:

Holland isn't as nasty as Guzzler was.

Holland's a big unit with a big engine but he isn't as menacing.

He’s also only 22… plenty of room for growth. No need him to compare him to a great AB lock before he’s even played 1 test

@nostrildamus that wasn’t a confirmed team so we don’t know yet

@Landers92

I don't think it does him any favours comparing him to Retallick.

He doesn't have to have the same style as Retallick. He can have his own style.

Apart from the height they have different styles and that's OK.

Richie McCaw wasn't menacing but he was a great player.

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks Vs France, Test One, Dunedin:

I am surprised Finau or CLW aren't there at 6.

I’d be very surprised to see CLW play anything but number 8. He’s not in the side if Sititi is fit.

@Landers92 said in All Blacks Vs France, Test One, Dunedin:

@brodean said in All Blacks Vs France, Test One, Dunedin:

Holland isn't as nasty as Guzzler was.

Holland's a big unit with a big engine but he isn't as menacing.

He’s also only 22… plenty of room for growth. No need him to compare him to a great AB lock before he’s even played 1 test

And he is very similar to a young brodie retallick dont you think?

@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks Vs France, Test One, Dunedin:

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks Vs France, Test One, Dunedin:

I am surprised Finau or CLW aren't there at 6.

I’d be very surprised to see CLW play anything but number 8. He’s not in the side if Sititi is fit.

You don't see him as a 4th or 5th or 6th number 6? Because of his height? I thought he played a bit of 6 for the Crusaders (checked, ok he hasn't this season but I have read websites he can play 6 and 8).
This French team is tall, and Tupou may be moved to 6 because of it so I think in this situation CLW would be an unusual call, but he is a specialized loose forward.

I can understand the Finau thing, in the Blues game he was our MVP in the last ten minutes. That won't have impressed, when the pressure was on in the finals.

If that is the team, then I admire it because it's ballsy.

The chief problem last year was that Razor and co. were too safe in their selections and we got continuity Foster. I welcome Robertson being more confident in driving his vision of how the ABs can beat regularly the other best sides in the world.

@sparky said in All Blacks Vs France, Test One, Dunedin:

I don't think Finau would have made the squad if Scott Parker had been fit.

He looks a bit too skinny for a blindside.

@Frank said in All Blacks Vs France, Test One, Dunedin:

Shows they don't rate Finau much.

I don't think Finau would have made the squad if Simon Parker had been fit.

@sparky said in All Blacks Vs France, Test One, Dunedin:

Chat GTP is struggling with a French team. It keeps selecting players not on the current tour.

Who outsourced Chat GTP to The Fern ?

@nzzp said in All Blacks Vs France, Test One, Dunedin:

Jesus., we can do better than AI slop right.

Doesn't seem the usual level of excitement for a French test on here. There's really only downside for the ABs - a win is expected; if they struggle or (god forbid) shit the bed, it'll be flaming torches and pitchfork time

I'd love the AB's to struggle. Great opportunity to build and grow thru pressure which could reap big dividends.

As long as they win, mind.

@taniwharugby said in All Blacks Vs France, Test One, Dunedin:

@nzzp said in All Blacks Vs France, Test One, Dunedin:

There's really only downside for the ABs - a win is expected; if they struggle or (god forbid) shit the bed, it'll be flaming torches and pitchfork time

Pitchforks will be out regardless....ABs are in a no win situation for this game.

Thrash them - played shit, poor skills, poor decisions
Close win - should have thrashed them
Loss - should have thrashed this shit French team

"Keeping our powder dry"

@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks Vs France, Test One, Dunedin:

@nzzp said in All Blacks Vs France, Test One, Dunedin:

Jesus., we can do better than AI slop right.

Doesn't seem the usual level of excitement for a French test on here. There's really only downside for the ABs - a win is expected; if they struggle or (god forbid) shit the bed, it'll be flaming torches and pitchfork time

I'd love the AB's to struggle. Great opportunity to build and grow thru pressure which could reap big dividends.

As long as they win, mind.

TAB has us at $1.07. This should not be a contest.

Think Lomax has picked up injury at training and his in doubt.

@Kirwan said in All Blacks Vs France, Test One, Dunedin:

I can understand the Finau thing, in the Blues game he was our MVP in the last ten minutes. That won't have impressed, when the pressure was on in the finals.

If the last 10 of that game was so important and they think he can't handle the pressure, then why did they pick him at all - why pick one specialist 6 in the squad if you don't intend to play him?
Probably best to be careful with 'when the pressure was on in the finals' or we might end up with the cantablacks again...

Playing Vaai - let's not forget our best lock last year - at 6 wouldn't be my first option, but I can see giving it a go as Holland is a gun. However, that means three of our locks in the XV and presumably (hopefully) Tuipolotu on the bench - if that's the plan, then surely we should have named another lock in the squad? Where's Beehre or whoever?
Again, I just can't see a cohesive overall strategy from Robertson - unless perhaps it is finding ways to keep the Barretts in the side: we don't pick our best 10; move our best lock to 6; move Rieko to wing to make space for the non-Barrett midfielders who are demanding selection.

Will be quite funny if Vaa'i isn't at 6 and all this angst has been for nothing (even more for nothing than usual).

@reprobate said in All Blacks Vs France, Test One, Dunedin:

@Kirwan said in All Blacks Vs France, Test One, Dunedin:

I can understand the Finau thing, in the Blues game he was our MVP in the last ten minutes. That won't have impressed, when the pressure was on in the finals.

If the last 10 of that game was so important and they think he can't handle the pressure, then why did they pick him at all - why pick one specialist 6 in the squad if you don't intend to play him?
Probably best to be careful with 'when the pressure was on in the finals' or we might end up with the cantablacks again...

Playing Vaai - let's not forget our best lock last year - at 6 wouldn't be my first option, but I can see giving it a go as Holland is a gun. However, that means three of our locks in the XV and presumably (hopefully) Tuipolotu on the bench - if that's the plan, then surely we should have named another lock in the squad? Where's Beehre or whoever?
Again, I just can't see a cohesive overall strategy from Robertson - unless perhaps it is finding ways to keep the Barretts in the side: we don't pick our best 10; move our best lock to 6; move Rieko to wing to make space for the non-Barrett midfielders who are demanding selection.

I'm just repeating what the coaches have said in the past about weighting the final's performances more highly. Obviously still subjective as Dalton and Sotutu were huge in dragging a struggling Blues team to that position at all.

As for the part around 10, Barrett is the best ten in the country. DMac has had too many games where he shit the bed, BB is actually finding some of his magic again this year, and actually plays ten better than DMac.

Most of the great play I've seen from DMac this year was more fullback style play anyway.

Hinton hasn't selected Vaa'i at 6 in his team, but he doesn't have Holland in the 23 either.

@george33 said in All Blacks Vs France, Test One, Dunedin:

Think Lomax has picked up injury at training and his in doubt.

Sorry, my voodoo doll was aiming at the loose forwards but must have missed.

@Bovidae Herald had Reiko 13 Clarke 11 also.

Trust the Fern Process

@Kirwan said in All Blacks Vs France, Test One, Dunedin:

@reprobate said in All Blacks Vs France, Test One, Dunedin:

@Kirwan said in All Blacks Vs France, Test One, Dunedin:

I can understand the Finau thing, in the Blues game he was our MVP in the last ten minutes. That won't have impressed, when the pressure was on in the finals.

If the last 10 of that game was so important and they think he can't handle the pressure, then why did they pick him at all - why pick one specialist 6 in the squad if you don't intend to play him?
Probably best to be careful with 'when the pressure was on in the finals' or we might end up with the cantablacks again...

Playing Vaai - let's not forget our best lock last year - at 6 wouldn't be my first option, but I can see giving it a go as Holland is a gun. However, that means three of our locks in the XV and presumably (hopefully) Tuipolotu on the bench - if that's the plan, then surely we should have named another lock in the squad? Where's Beehre or whoever?
Again, I just can't see a cohesive overall strategy from Robertson - unless perhaps it is finding ways to keep the Barretts in the side: we don't pick our best 10; move our best lock to 6; move Rieko to wing to make space for the non-Barrett midfielders who are demanding selection.

I'm just repeating what the coaches have said in the past about weighting the final's performances more highly. Obviously still subjective as Dalton and Sotutu were huge in dragging a struggling Blues team to that position at all.

As for the part around 10, Barrett is the best ten in the country. DMac has had too many games where he shit the bed, BB is actually finding some of his magic again this year, and actually plays ten better than DMac.

Most of the great play I've seen from DMac this year was more fullback style play anyway.

Couldn't disagree more with this.

McKenzie was throughout the season much better at 10 on average than Barrett was. McKenzie had a couple of middling games (and one awful one against the Waratahs) but was more often than not the best player on the park and was key to unlocking defences from first receiver.

Barrett has been an average 10 for a number of years now. He's capable of great games, but largely those aren't the result of him being a good 10, they're the result of moments of great individual play, like a chip and chase try. His kicking isn't any better strategically (or more accurate) than McKenzie's.

Really struggle to see how you could come this conclusion? Did you watch all of McKenzie's matches? Not suggesting that's why, but it would be the simple answer haha.

@Kirwan said in All Blacks Vs France, Test One, Dunedin:

@reprobate said in All Blacks Vs France, Test One, Dunedin:

@Kirwan said in All Blacks Vs France, Test One, Dunedin:

I can understand the Finau thing, in the Blues game he was our MVP in the last ten minutes. That won't have impressed, when the pressure was on in the finals.

If the last 10 of that game was so important and they think he can't handle the pressure, then why did they pick him at all - why pick one specialist 6 in the squad if you don't intend to play him?
Probably best to be careful with 'when the pressure was on in the finals' or we might end up with the cantablacks again...

Playing Vaai - let's not forget our best lock last year - at 6 wouldn't be my first option, but I can see giving it a go as Holland is a gun. However, that means three of our locks in the XV and presumably (hopefully) Tuipolotu on the bench - if that's the plan, then surely we should have named another lock in the squad? Where's Beehre or whoever?
Again, I just can't see a cohesive overall strategy from Robertson - unless perhaps it is finding ways to keep the Barretts in the side: we don't pick our best 10; move our best lock to 6; move Rieko to wing to make space for the non-Barrett midfielders who are demanding selection.

I'm just repeating what the coaches have said in the past about weighting the final's performances more highly. Obviously still subjective as Dalton and Sotutu were huge in dragging a struggling Blues team to that position at all.

As for the part around 10, Barrett is the best ten in the country. DMac has had too many games where he shit the bed, BB is actually finding some of his magic again this year, and actually plays ten better than DMac.

Most of the great play I've seen from DMac this year was more fullback style play anyway.

The coaches are inconsistent in their reasoning and contradict themselves anyway.

On the one hand Razor says in his interview Sititi was selected because of one big semi final game last year - "he's a big game player" ( except in the actual final ).

On the other hand Ryan says they consider the entire season.

They just change the narrative depending on what selection they want to justify.

Beauden Barrett can't stay focused for 80 minutes. He should be a sub or get subbed. The longer he stays on the more likely he is to do something silly.

@brodean said in All Blacks Vs France, Test One, Dunedin:

@Kirwan said in All Blacks Vs France, Test One, Dunedin:

@reprobate said in All Blacks Vs France, Test One, Dunedin:

@Kirwan said in All Blacks Vs France, Test One, Dunedin:

I can understand the Finau thing, in the Blues game he was our MVP in the last ten minutes. That won't have impressed, when the pressure was on in the finals.

If the last 10 of that game was so important and they think he can't handle the pressure, then why did they pick him at all - why pick one specialist 6 in the squad if you don't intend to play him?
Probably best to be careful with 'when the pressure was on in the finals' or we might end up with the cantablacks again...

Playing Vaai - let's not forget our best lock last year - at 6 wouldn't be my first option, but I can see giving it a go as Holland is a gun. However, that means three of our locks in the XV and presumably (hopefully) Tuipolotu on the bench - if that's the plan, then surely we should have named another lock in the squad? Where's Beehre or whoever?
Again, I just can't see a cohesive overall strategy from Robertson - unless perhaps it is finding ways to keep the Barretts in the side: we don't pick our best 10; move our best lock to 6; move Rieko to wing to make space for the non-Barrett midfielders who are demanding selection.

I'm just repeating what the coaches have said in the past about weighting the final's performances more highly. Obviously still subjective as Dalton and Sotutu were huge in dragging a struggling Blues team to that position at all.

As for the part around 10, Barrett is the best ten in the country. DMac has had too many games where he shit the bed, BB is actually finding some of his magic again this year, and actually plays ten better than DMac.

Most of the great play I've seen from DMac this year was more fullback style play anyway.

The coaches are inconsistent in their reasoning and contradict themselves anyway.

On the one hand Razor says in his interview Sititi was selected because of one big semi final game last year - "he's a big game player" ( except in the actual final ).

On the other hand Ryan says they consider the entire season.

They just change the narrative depending on what selection they want to justify.

National team selection is subjective. There’s no criteria, so it’s always going to be that way.

For what it’s worth, on Sititi they have had their eye on him for a while so whether he played well in the finals or not, they were keen on him anyway.

Interesting, Mexted has been calling for vaii to play 6 and holland to start at lock for some time on that podcast he does with devlin.

@Chris said in All Blacks Vs France, Test One, Dunedin:

I don't mind the Vaa'i selection it gives us a big forward pack with Holland starting,Vaa'i could be an imposing figure at 6, I am interested to see how it goes ,Vaa'i is a better player than he was when tried at 6 in that one game.

It also doesn’t mean it’s something they have to stick with, it could be a case of let’s try it and see what it looks like .

@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks Vs France, Test One, Dunedin:

@Chris said in All Blacks Vs France, Test One, Dunedin:

I don't mind the Vaa'i selection it gives us a big forward pack with Holland starting,Vaa'i could be an imposing figure at 6, I am interested to see how it goes ,Vaa'i is a better player than he was when tried at 6 in that one game.

It also doesn’t mean it’s something they have to stick with, it could be a case of let’s try it and see what it looks like .

That's true