I actually like the size of the scrum, I agree with Mex on this one. I really hope That Tupou Vaii has a blinder, and can be a permanent option there. Funny how we went from looking like a small back row two weeks ago to one that can compete with anyone physically. Happy to see Proctor, hopefully he gets a long run. Weakest point is our wings, I don’t think they will be strong in the air, and not sure if Rieko has retained his pace and from what we have seen at test level Reece is wanting for pace. I expect Tupea and Jordan will finish up on the wings bar injury.
All Blacks
Match thread
France I
@frugby said in All Blacks v France I:
I’d really like to see Vaa’i given the whole series at 6. If they want to try it, then give it a decent sample size, so we can actually get a read on if it is a good idea.
Yeah, when he has played 6 before he was underwhelming.
But then he had a breakout year last year where he was one of the top performing locks in the world so keen to see if he can bring that improvement and confidence to 6 jersey.
3 tests there will be a good sample size to see if it is worth continuing for the TRC
@Bones said in All Blacks v France I:
Looks like the first five is pretty quick.
What you did there. I see it.
@brodean said in All Blacks v France I:
How do you know its a backrow that can compete with anyone physically when it's never played together before, 1 player is a debutant, and 1 is starting a test at 6 for the 2nd time?
You are not contradicting anything I said. Physically they match up to Test back rows of our rivals , whether they combine as a unit we will see.
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v France I:
Christian Lio Willie speaks well. Doesn't sound like an overawed debutant. Excited to see him go at 8.
Isn't he a doctor or something?
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks v France I:
But then he had a breakout year last year where he was one of the top performing locks in the world so keen to see if he can bring that improvement and confidence to 6 jersey.
Worth a shot, but won't have a problem if it doesn't work/pan out. Robertson can always put him back to being one of the top performing locks in the world
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v France I:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v France I:
Christian Lio Willie speaks well. Doesn't sound like an overawed debutant. Excited to see him go at 8.
Isn't he a doctor or something?
Qualified dentist
@Frank said in All Blacks v France I:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v France I:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v France I:
Christian Lio Willie speaks well. Doesn't sound like an overawed debutant. Excited to see him go at 8.
Isn't he a doctor or something?
Qualified dentist
You'd think he'd be throwing out a few more high tackles then eh.
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v France I:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks Vs France, Test One, Dunedin:
Hasn't stopped premature celebration before so I don't expect it to disappear now.
hello wife i didn't know you posted here
you were too busy celebrating to notice.
@Frank said in All Blacks v France I:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v France I:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v France I:
Christian Lio Willie speaks well. Doesn't sound like an overawed debutant. Excited to see him go at 8.
Isn't he a doctor or something?
Qualified dentist
Makes sense.
@Daffy-Jaffy said in All Blacks v France I:
A huge 6-2 bench -
France team to face the All Blacks
France: 15 Theo Attissogbe, 14 Tom Spring, 13 Emilien Gailleton, 12 Gael Fickou (c), 11 Gabin Villière, 10 Joris Segonds, 9 Nolann Le Garrec, 8 Mickael Guillard, 7 Killian Tixeront, 6 Alexandre Fischer, 5 Tyler Duguid, 4 Hugo Auradou, 3 Rabah Slimani, 2 Gaetan Barlot, 1 Giorgi Beria
Replacements: 16 Pierre Bourgarit, 17 Paul Mallez, 18 Regis Montagne, 19 Romain Taofifenua, 20 Cameron Woki, 21 Jacobus van Tonder, 22 Baptiste Jauneau, 23 Antoine Hastoy
Squat props. Scrum will pack low.
@Daffy-Jaffy Is Giorgi Beria any relation to Lavrentiy Beria?
@Bones said in All Blacks v France I:
Looks like the first five is pretty quick.
Might have been better if he was playing openside flanker ( think about it )
@sparky said in All Blacks v France I:
@Daffy-Jaffy Is Giorgi Beria any relation to Lavrentiy Beria?
I just wasted 15 minutes checking, thanks. Apparently Beria is a relatively common name in Georgia.
I suspect a lot of posters haven't watched much of the Blues this year, but Beauden was one of their best and they wouldn't have made the play offs without him. I made the comment about a month or so back that people would be triggered when he gets named at 10 for this match and was told I was just trolling, but he has actually been very good this year.
I have no issues with him starting this match, but as people have pointed out age isn't on his side so they will need to have an eye to towards developing a younger player for the next RWC. That said, I am not a big fan of a coaches plans having to revolve around a 4 year RWC cycle, it leads us down the path of anything outside of it is just a "friendly" which would be a bad thing for rugby overall.
@Bones said in All Blacks v France I:
Looks like the first five is pretty quick.
And their right wing has got some real bounce
I watched him and the backline was barely functional for most of the time except near the business end. A lot of what he creates is for himself.
It's no coincidence that the Blues won their two titles in the twenties when he was on sabbatical.
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v France I:
I suspect a lot of posters haven't watched much of the Blues this year, but Beauden was one of their best and they wouldn't have made the play offs without him. I made the comment about a month or so back that people would be triggered when he gets named at 10 for this match and was told I was just trolling, but he has actually been very good this year.
I have no issues with him starting this match, but as people have pointed out age isn't on his side so they will need to have an eye to towards developing a younger player for the next RWC. That said, I am not a big fan of a coaches plans having to revolve around a 4 year RWC cycle, it leads us down the path of anything outside of it is just a "friendly" which would be a bad thing for rugby overall.
Yeah I watched all the Blues games Barrett did play well for the Blues apart from the odd silly mistake.
But can he convert it to the internationals,Someone has to him or D Mac or we will not win the tough games.
We badly need another couple of younger first fives to stand up we need more depth.
Maybe Reihana can with another year driving the ship at the Crusaders as a back up player.
Jacomb seems have gone backwards to me.
@Chris yeah I think our two most promising 10s are Reihana and Love, Love really needs a full Super season at 10 though to solidify himself there. Love is in the squad and Reihana getting valuable gametime with the Maori so I'd say both are firmly in the coaches sights.
I don't see a huge amount of difference starting Beuaden and DMac. Both players run hot and cold and generally create more for themselves, with the flaw of often trying to do too much and making silly errors. Beauden's direct running style is better suited to test footy which is why I think he gets the nod more often.
(conscious I am getting away from the match here so happy for these posts to be moved)
@brodean said in All Blacks v France I:
Beauden Barrett is 34 now.
Have we really become that desperate as a rugby nation that we can't try an exciting young prospect like Reuben Love against France B? He didn't even make the 23.
Beauden Barrett in 2027 will be the same age as Jonny Sexton was in 2023.
If Razor wants to be innovative and forward thinking, he really needs to throw Ruben Love the 10 jersey in the third test once we've hopefully sealed the deal. At the very least, Ruben really needs to get some time off the bench to stake his claim. We definitely can't go into a WC with Beauden at the helm.
Yes now is the perfect time to blood Love.
@brodean said in All Blacks v France I:
Yes now is the perfect time to blood Love.
yes he needs to show a bit of Love in this series. And I'm serious, but I'll get my coat anyway.
Selecting Beauden is a wasted opportunity. He's never been a good 10, never going to be - and by the next WC he will be older and slower, negating further his real strengths which are running and kicking for himself.
McKenzie is a better 10, currently our best - and actually looks to put others into space - he is a realistic option for the next few years. He should be starting and Love should be on the bench and getting game time.
If you're not going to do it against France B at home - they have named what 8 debutants? - then when the fuck are you going to do it?
@Chris said in All Blacks v France I:
Yeah I watched all the Blues games Barrett did play well for the Blues apart from the odd silly mistake.
I watched most.
Beauden's long range kicking, and especially his exit plays, were terrible. This is one area DMac has it all over him, and he has his poor moments. We will never match the top international teams if we simply cannot get out of our 22 properly.
The Blues did not play better once he got back in the team, quite the contrary -- that is, he's no better than Plummer or Perofeta. In particular, the Blues centres scored almost no tries this year, despite a hard-working forward pack, because BB doesn't set up a back-line very well. It's no coincidence that the All Black back-line becomes similarly dry in tries when he has taken over.
How many times do we have to repeat the end of last year, where we are going OK under McKenzie, only to replace him with Barrett and then get worse? How does our sudden improvement once Beauden was replaced by Mo'unga get ignored?
I get that DMc is not the sort of player that everyone likes. But at least he is good for the other backs to run off, and gives us options other than poor chips, mid-field bombs and cross-kicks.
Yup and with the comfort of homeground advantage too.
Beauden's biggest weakness is his inability to put players into gaps with his passing game. When he creates something its either him making a line break or some kind of 50/50 kick.
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v France I:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks Vs France, Test One, Dunedin:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks Vs France, Test One, Dunedin:
@1kiwi said in All Blacks Vs France, Test One, Dunedin:
My concern lies with Beauden at 10. We should be blooding a new 10 with the world cup only 2 years away. I don't believe we can win a world cup with either Beauden or Damien as our 10.
To paraphrase Ramsay Bolton from Game of Thrones, "Anyone who thinks Richie won't be wearing the 10 jersey at RWC2027 hasn't been paying attention".
Barring injury of course.
Don't shoot the messenger!
Not if I have anything to do with it;
Doubtful this will be as effective as my Akira and Sotutu dolls….
Those pins are rookie numbers
@Canes4life said in All Blacks v France I:
@brodean said in All Blacks v France I:
Beauden Barrett is 34 now.
Have we really become that desperate as a rugby nation that we can't try an exciting young prospect like Reuben Love against France B? He didn't even make the 23.
Beauden Barrett in 2027 will be the same age as Jonny Sexton was in 2023.
If Razor wants to be innovative and forward thinking, he really needs to throw Ruben Love the 10 jersey in the third test once we've hopefully sealed the deal. At the very least, Ruben really needs to get some time off the bench to stake his claim. We definitely can't go into a WC with Beauden at the helm.
i think they should have given him all three....how often do you get three homes test against a International B squad to settle into a role
we'll lock up tot he first 2...then try Love...he wont get man of the match and so they'll go back to BB....
@reprobate said in All Blacks v France I:
McKenzie is a better 10
This was not apparent in the Super Rugby playoffs.
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v France I:
@reprobate said in All Blacks v France I:
McKenzie is a better 10
This was not apparent in the Super Rugby playoffs.
And Barrett did what? A couple of chip kicks for himself which got people excited - but he's done those sporadically forever, because he's been a very good outside back. Still showed no ability as either a playmaking or kicking 10.
I think it was apparent that McKenzie is superior throughout Super, and in international rugby last year - and even pre 2023 WC. You can't draw conclusions on small selected samples, otherwise week 1 playoff Hoskins is a legend, week 2 he's a useless piece of shit. And if playoffs are the be-all, where are our cantablacks?
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v France I:
@reprobate said in All Blacks v France I:
McKenzie is a better 10
This was not apparent in the Super Rugby playoffs.
I think the playoffs suggested that neither of those guys are the answer at 10. Of course in a different team one or other might shine in black. But I won't hold my breath. And I don't want them to have stellar games playing harem scarem against this French side. I want to see a bit more control and authority in the pilot's chair
@reprobate said in All Blacks v France I:
You can't draw conclusions on small selected samples, otherwise week 1 playoff Hoskins is a legend, week 2 he's a useless piece of shit. And if playoffs are the be-all, where are our cantablacks?
I'm talking about this notion of DMac being the answer - not disputing Beauden has his issues too.
The fact is DMac has come up small 3 playoff years in a row.
I blame Laidlaw for not keeping Love at 10 this year and I'm championing Reihana - Reihana would have been in my AB squad - I would have done something like name him in the squad but release him for the Maori ABs and then have him rejoin the AB squad.
@Chester-Draws said in All Blacks v France I:
@Chris said in All Blacks v France I:
Yeah I watched all the Blues games Barrett did play well for the Blues apart from the odd silly mistake.
I watched most.
Beauden's long range kicking, and especially his exit plays, were terrible. This is one area DMac has it all over him, and he has his poor moments. We will never match the top international teams if we simply cannot get out of our 22 properly.
The Blues did not play better once he got back in the team, quite the contrary -- that is, he's no better than Plummer or Perofeta. In particular, the Blues centres scored almost no tries this year, despite a hard-working forward pack, because BB doesn't set up a back-line very well. It's no coincidence that the All Black back-line becomes similarly dry in tries when he has taken over.
How many times do we have to repeat the end of last year, where we are going OK under McKenzie, only to replace him with Barrett and then get worse? How does our sudden improvement once Beauden was replaced by Mo'unga get ignored?
I get that DMc is not the sort of player that everyone likes. But at least he is good for the other backs to run off, and gives us options other than poor chips, mid-field bombs and cross-kicks.
Yeah I agree Barret makes play for himself before others, I don’t believe he will transfer enough at his age to internationals that will win us big games as I mentioned in my post .
@Canes4life said in All Blacks v France I:
@brodean said in All Blacks v France I:
Beauden Barrett is 34 now.
Have we really become that desperate as a rugby nation that we can't try an exciting young prospect like Reuben Love against France B? He didn't even make the 23.
Beauden Barrett in 2027 will be the same age as Jonny Sexton was in 2023.
If Razor wants to be innovative and forward thinking, he really needs to throw Ruben Love the 10 jersey in the third test once we've hopefully sealed the deal. At the very least, Ruben really needs to get some time off the bench to stake his claim. We definitely can't go into a WC with Beauden at the helm.
We need the incumbents to pull their hammies.
If Sasha and Libbock were Allblacks they would have had the odd run out at 15 and we would be persisting with Francois Steyn and Handre Pollard at 10.
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v France I:
@reprobate said in All Blacks v France I:
You can't draw conclusions on small selected samples, otherwise week 1 playoff Hoskins is a legend, week 2 he's a useless piece of shit. And if playoffs are the be-all, where are our cantablacks?
I'm talking about this notion of DMac being the answer - not disputing Beauden has his issues too.
The fact is DMac has come up small 3 playoff years in a row.
I blame Laidlaw for not keeping Love at 10 this year and I'm championing Reihana - Reihana would have been in my AB squad - I would have done something like name him in the squad but release him for the Maori ABs and then have him rejoin the AB squad.
The difference is that Beauden has had years and years - that improvement is clearly never happening.
How many tests has McKenzie actually started at 10? And in far fewer opportunities he has shown glimpses of what we need - the attacking first half of Boks 1 last year, the improved control vs Ireland etc.
@reprobate said in All Blacks v France I:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v France I:
@reprobate said in All Blacks v France I:
You can't draw conclusions on small selected samples, otherwise week 1 playoff Hoskins is a legend, week 2 he's a useless piece of shit. And if playoffs are the be-all, where are our cantablacks?
I'm talking about this notion of DMac being the answer - not disputing Beauden has his issues too.
The fact is DMac has come up small 3 playoff years in a row.
I blame Laidlaw for not keeping Love at 10 this year and I'm championing Reihana - Reihana would have been in my AB squad - I would have done something like name him in the squad but release him for the Maori ABs and then have him rejoin the AB squad.
The difference is that Beauden has had years and years - that improvement is clearly never happening.
How many tests has McKenzie actually started at 10? And in far fewer opportunities he has shown glimpses of what we need - the attacking first half of Boks 1 last year, the improved control vs Ireland etc.
Beauden was neutered once the dual pivot shite started. Initially with DMAC at 15 until he did his ACL and then with Mounga.
We deify our 10's historically and Beaudy was THE MAN going into the 2017 Lions tour.
Once the dual pivot stuff started that was the end of him. We took the keys to the castle away. A tacit vote of no confidence.
Love to me is a gun, with plenty of X-factor. He should have way more runs on the board at this stage. Reihana now knocking on the door too.
I cannot believe Razor is persisting with this Hokey Cokey act at 10 between DMAC and Beuady. Id rather he picked one and stuck with them even if it was the wrong choice. This chopping and changing serves neither of them.