@Windows97 said in All Blacks v France II:

@Mauss said in All Blacks v France II:

In the end, the gameplan bore very little fruit, Norris’ and Tosi’s combined 4 carries for a total of 7 metres made barely a fundamental upgrade on de Groot’s and Newell’s combined 4 carries for 3 metres made. Norris put in a big shift on defence but the argument can be made that this defensive shift wouldn’t be necessary if the quality of the breakdown, maul and lineout hadn’t plummeted with the bench forwards coming on. If the bench plan is to bring carrying impact then the coaches need to make sure that there are enough forwards on the field who focus on securing the breakdown. Because any plan that results in your backs having to consistently provide clean ball is a plan destined to fail.

I think this hits the nail on the head to explain the decline in the AB's attacking structure in the second half. Thank you for the insight.

This puts the AB's in a conumdrum going forward as per the weekend for example there's really no-one on the bench with a fantastic reputation of shifting bodies at the ruck. Norris, Tosi and Samisoni are ball carriers, Finau plays wide and Kirifi is more of a scavenger at the breakdown.

It begs the question when the bench comes on who's job is it to clear bodes at the ruck? It would appear no-one and everyone...

The main impact on the second half play was Tuipulotu and Vaa'i being injured for the last quarter. That meant Finau had to move to lock and we had the three small loose forwards on the field. I doubt that was part of the plan but injuries happen.

For the movement in question where Beauden hits a ruck Tosi, Taukei'aho, Finau, and Kirifi all hit rucks in that movement. Savea and Norris do not.

All of the forwards apart from Vaa'i are lined up on one side of the ruck when Beauden switches play away from the forwards so the main reason why Beauden needs to attend that ruck is he switches play to a side of the field which has no forward support once Vaa'i is the carrier.

At some point of the game all 10's will need to hit a ruck - especially if its due to a play of their own making. This particular incident isn't evidence that Tosi and Norris don't hit enough rucks.

One thing not mentioned is how well Rieko Ioane did marking Theo Attissogbe. Last week he was their most dangerous player and this week he was effectively shut down.

vaai only had 3 carrys all game. we really need more than that . rugbypass stats anyone else have any?are these wrong for someone who majority had him as a top performer thats really low

@ploughboy said in All Blacks v France II:

vaai only had 3 carrys all game. we really need more than that . rugbypass stats anyone else have any?are these wrong for someone who majority had him as a top performer thats really low

They were high impact carries.

1 was a linebreak and a try.

Rieko scored his try after the ruck from another of his carries.

Someone needs to hit some rucks when Savea and Lio Willie carry a lot.

He's a big body in a dominant lineout and maul that led to a few tries.

@canefan said in All Blacks v France II:

He knocked the ball down so it's a clear YC

Imagine all the yellow cards if that was the case. Words matter.

If it’s

Williams, Taylor, Lomax - starting
EDG, ST, Newell - bench

Then I think those trios have pretty good balance.

I’m still thinking 6/2 bench is something to be explored.

@ACT-Crusader think I'd swap Newell/Lomax, just get a little bit more oomph on attack off the bench, with a bit more power in the tackle.

@Bones said in All Blacks v France II:

@ACT-Crusader think I'd swap Newell/Lomax, just get a little bit more oomph on attack off the bench, with a bit more power in the tackle.

Yeah I was going to add, perhaps starting the Saders front row would be good from a combo also. But that might’ve been too predictable

@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v France II:

@Bones said in All Blacks v France II:

@ACT-Crusader think I'd swap Newell/Lomax, just get a little bit more oomph on attack off the bench, with a bit more power in the tackle.

Yeah I was going to add, perhaps starting the Saders front row would be good from a combo also. But that might’ve been too predictable

Newell has shown some sweet hands as well, which could be useful unlocking space early on.

@brodean said in All Blacks v France II:

For the movement in question where Beauden hits a ruck Tosi, Taukei'aho, Finau, and Kirifi all hit rucks in that movement. Savea and Norris do not.

All of the forwards apart from Vaa'i are lined up on one side of the ruck when Beauden switches play away from the forwards so the main reason why Beauden needs to attend that ruck is he switches play to a side of the field which has no forward support once Vaa'i is the carrier.

At some point of the game all 10's will need to hit a ruck - especially if its due to a play of their own making. This particular incident isn't evidence that Tosi and Norris don't hit enough rucks.

You’re right in that the Barrett and Jordan clean isn’t evidence, it’s more meant as an example. The evidence is that Newell and de Groot cleaned the attacking ruck at rates of 40 cleans/80min and 29 cleans/80min, while their replacements did so at a rate of 14.5 and 17 cleans per 80min respectively.

The example I just found interesting, because of how Norris had become removed so far from the play all of a sudden. I think if you compare the build-up between the Jordan-try in Dunedin and the Ioane-try in Wellington, and only focus on the positioning and actions of the props, I think the different patterns are quite noticeable.

@booboo said in All Blacks v France II:

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v France II:

@booboo said in All Blacks v France II:

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v France II:

@booboo said in All Blacks v France II:

@sparky said in All Blacks v France II:

@reprobate Beauden Barrett must have got a YC for that, across his career for the Hurricanes, the Blues and the All Blacks, at least half a dozen times. I really wish he'd stop doing it.

Saved a try. Worth the yellow.

Is having your 10 in the bin worth saving 5 to 7 points given the 14 man team is more likely to concede points and far less likely to gain any? And is more tired than before (although perhaps this is minor if a back is carded?)

Little damage done: didn't we come out of that period on top?

Yes we played better when he left the field but my question is more regards general strategy than BB per se.

Sometimes it's worth it to concede a YC.

Never

@sparky said in All Blacks v France II:

@reprobate Beauden Barrett must have got a YC for that, across his career for the Hurricanes, the Blues and the All Blacks, at least half a dozen times. I really wish he'd stop doing it.

Has he? I honestly can't remember any. Not saying he hasn't, but I certainly remember him getting 1, but not getting 6!
Mind you I will add I getting older.

@Dan54 Chat GTP makes it 4. But I seem to remember one with the Blues as well.

Beauden Barrett has been shown a yellow card eight times across his professional rugby career:
• Four yellow cards came during his international career with the All Blacks.
• Four more were received while playing Super Rugby for the Hurricanes. He hasn’t received any for the Blues yet. 

To break it down a bit further:

Team/Competition Yellow Cards
New Zealand All Blacks (tests) 4
Hurricanes (Super Rugby) 4
Blues (Super Rugby) 0

His first yellow came in 2013 during the Rugby Championship, and the most recent was against England during the 2022 Autumn Internationals   . Additionally, he also received a yellow as recently as July 12, 2025, for an illegal knock-on against France in Wellington .

⸻

Beauden Barrett has received four yellow cards specifically for deliberate knock-ons during his career:
1. Super Rugby (Hurricanes vs. Waratahs, April 2017)
He picked up two yellows in the same game for deliberate knock-downs, which led to a red card as they accumulated .
2. International Test (All Blacks vs. Wales, Autumn 2021)
Barrett was sin‑binned for a one‑handed knock-on during a breakaway attempt .
3. Test Match (All Blacks vs. France, July 12, 2025)
He was shown a yellow for an “illegally knocked the ball down” block on what looked like a French try-bound pass .

So in summary:
• 2 yellows (Waratahs, 2017)
• 1 yellow (Wales, 2021)
• 1 yellow (France, 2025)

️ Total deliberate knock-on yellows: 4

@sparky said in All Blacks v France II:

Seriously, who cares if the French decided not to stick around for the trophy presentation?

Not something we would do, but honestly not a very big deal if the opposition wanted to get back to the dressing room and start their preparations for Test 3.

Add another to the french list of disrespect.

France held this trophy for 4 years. Probably the longest period they ever have held it, does it really mean nothing to them or does the opposition mean nothing to them?

And you dont start preparations for test 3 once you get back to the sheds after test 2 mate.

@DaGrubster Sportsmanship means different things in different societies, especially in this commercial era, although I've found one universal in great Rugby heartlands is superb hospitality, very much including the south of France.

I'm relaxed about the French making their own decisions about what Rugby values means to them rather than demanding they follow our protocols. Hopefully, next Saturday will be a competitive test match with no hint of it being a dead rubber.

I didn't worry (or even know they left) but I must admit I was a little pissed of with the non players and management. When game was finished and we were starting to leave the stand I got knocked out of way from behind, as we were starting to go down the stairs. Was the above mentioned heading down to dresiing room or ground. I could understand they wanted to be down on field (I thought) and shrugged shoulders, but was the fact I didn't hear an apology, or even see one look at anyone and nod etc as they passed just struck me as somewhat rude.
Or maybe I just an old fella with outdated ideas where you show a little manners?

I'm confused, I thought Rassie is the devil. Is it Fabien now?

Pretty dick move though.

@Mauss said in All Blacks v France II:

You’re right in that the Barrett and Jordan clean isn’t evidence, it’s more meant as an example. The evidence is that Newell and de Groot cleaned the attacking ruck at rates of 40 cleans/80min and 29 cleans/80min, while their replacements did so at a rate of 14.5 and 17 cleans per 80min respectively.

Yes the rate doesn't take into account the fact we dominated possession in the first half while the French came back in the second half and dominated possession. Potentially the sample is too small to extrapolate anything. Please see my earlier response which posts the ruck attendance stats over the course of the SRP season.

@sparky yep fair enough sparky as I said I never really keep an eye on these things, or record them in memory bank.

Took a quick look at BB's games history.

If you ignore the last two games we played against France B/C Beauden has managed a total of two wins across the games he started at 10 against France, South Africa, and Ireland during the twenties.