@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks v France III:
The guys who haven’t played yet are all clearly third-choice other than Lienert-Brown who they know all about and who has been slipping in form for a while now.
There's no evidence so far that Lio Willie and Kirifi are better than Jacobson and Papali'i.
Based on what we've seen from BB and Dmac, Love has to be given an opportunity. It's not clear that these guys offer more than what Love potentially could.
@brodean said in All Blacks v France III:
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks v France III:
The guys who haven’t played yet are all clearly third-choice other than Lienert-Brown who they know all about and who has been slipping in form for a while now.
There's no evidence so far that Lio Willie and Kirifi are better than Jacobson and Papali'i.
Based on what we've seen from BB and Dmac, Love has to be given an opportunity. It's not clear that these guys offer more than what Love potentially could.
I said in my original post I’d give Love a full half. Jacobson is out injured, isn’t he? And I feel like Lakai would be in the squad if fit ahead of Kirifi and Papali'i.
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks v France III:
I said in my original post I’d give Love a full half. Jacobson is out injured, isn’t he? And I feel like Lakai would be in the squad if fit ahead of Kirifi and Papali'i.
Lakai is one of the few 'utilities' we have that seems to offer potential but genuine impact in more than one position. I get the impression (and Canes supporters can correct me) that he has pretty good rugby vision for someone relatively young, and despite not being a big loose forward he is reasonably robust and athletic (but not sure if that is as obvious this season as last-haven't seen enough Hurricanes games).
@brodean said in All Blacks v France III:
@MN5 said in All Blacks v France III:
@brodean said in All Blacks v France III:
The backline and loose forwards have a number of question marks around them. It's not clear who the third and forth choice players are in a number of positions and even 1st and 2nd choice are not clear either.
A number of players are cruising off the back of a dominant tight five. We probably aren't going to get the same level of tight five dominance against first choice top 4 teams.
Which to me makes guys like Kirifi and Lio Willie surplus to requirements against the really big guns.
That move the latter did to set up Roigard was cool though.
Yes Lio Willie has been better than Kirifi. The way injuries come around it seems that Lio Willie can be relied on to do a job but he doesn't really seem to have the attributes to grab the starting position with both hands and not let go for the next 4 years. So a bit of a stop gap measure at this stage?
A good solid backup to Sititi I reckon.
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks v France III:
@brodean said in All Blacks v France III:
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks v France III:
The guys who haven’t played yet are all clearly third-choice other than Lienert-Brown who they know all about and who has been slipping in form for a while now.
There's no evidence so far that Lio Willie and Kirifi are better than Jacobson and Papali'i.
Based on what we've seen from BB and Dmac, Love has to be given an opportunity. It's not clear that these guys offer more than what Love potentially could.
I said in my original post I’d give Love a full half. Jacobson is out injured, isn’t he? And I feel like Lakai would be in the squad if fit ahead of Kirifi and Papali'i.
Fair enough I missed that inclusion of Love. Hotham over Ratima is also worth investigating.
@brodean said in All Blacks v France III:
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks v France III:
@brodean said in All Blacks v France III:
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks v France III:
The guys who haven’t played yet are all clearly third-choice other than Lienert-Brown who they know all about and who has been slipping in form for a while now.
There's no evidence so far that Lio Willie and Kirifi are better than Jacobson and Papali'i.
Based on what we've seen from BB and Dmac, Love has to be given an opportunity. It's not clear that these guys offer more than what Love potentially could.
I said in my original post I’d give Love a full half. Jacobson is out injured, isn’t he? And I feel like Lakai would be in the squad if fit ahead of Kirifi and Papali'i.
Fair enough I missed that inclusion of Love. Hotham over Ratima is also worth investigating.
That’s my fault, I mentioned Love in one sentence, then generalised the players who hadn’t played in another.
Hotham’’s a possibility. I’m kind of interested to see how things might go if they started with the second choice halfback and brought Roigard on at (or even before) half time, rather than keeping him on the field till hes out on his feet. The next best halfbacks don’t seem to have much impact off the bench so it might be an idea to give them the first thirty just to be solid against a fresh and fired up opposition.
Vaa'i is a major injury doubt so something like
1 De Groot
2 Taukei'aho
3 Newell (Lomax)
4 Tuipolutu
5 Holland
6 Jacobson
7 Kirifi
8 A. Savea (c)
9 Hotham
10 Love
11 R Ioane
12 J. Barrett
13 Q. Tupaea
14 Narawa
15 Jordan
16 McAlister, 17 Norris 18 Tosi 19 Finau 20 Papalii 21 Roigard 22 Big Jim 23 DMac
Yeah, prolly worth making sure Vaai is right for the RC, as well as giving him the captaincy for the RC.
@canefan said in All Blacks v France III:
Razor is basically selecting how he should have last season
Yes
It was a fault.
We need to explore options at first five right now. Currently our first five tactical kicking and exits are poor. Still getting too many aimless up and unders.
Roigard showed outstanding skill with tactical kicking on Saturday and the 10 needs to do the same.
Sititi-Roigard-?-Jordie is now strong. Who's going to grab the ? to take us to 2027.
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks v France III:
@canefan said in All Blacks v France III:
Razor is basically selecting how he should have last season
Yes
It was a fault.
We need to explore options at first five right now. Currently our first five tactical kicking and exits are poor. Still getting too many aimless up and unders.
Roigard showed outstanding skill with tactical kicking on Saturday and the 10 needs to do the same.Sititi-Roigard-?-Jordie is now strong. Who's going to grab the ? to take us to 2027.
He'll be thrilled getting a mention despite not playing this year. Charlie Ngatai never had it so good.
@frugby said in All Blacks v France III:
@brodean said in All Blacks v France III:
@MN5 said in All Blacks v France III:
@brodean said in All Blacks v France III:
The backline and loose forwards have a number of question marks around them. It's not clear who the third and forth choice players are in a number of positions and even 1st and 2nd choice are not clear either.
A number of players are cruising off the back of a dominant tight five. We probably aren't going to get the same level of tight five dominance against first choice top 4 teams.
Which to me makes guys like Kirifi and Lio Willie surplus to requirements against the really big guns.
That move the latter did to set up Roigard was cool though.
Yes Lio Willie has been better than Kirifi. The way injuries come around it seems that Lio Willie can be relied on to do a job but he doesn't really seem to have the attributes to grab the starting position with both hands and not let go for the next 4 years. So a bit of a stop gap measure at this stage?
A good solid backup to Sititi I reckon.
More a good Super player who is adequate at test level in a good team.
@brodean said in All Blacks v France III:
Tuipulotu is in doubt too apparently. 50 50 with his knee. Vaa'i failed his HIA.
So we could see Ah Kuoi starting with Holland and Finau at 6.
Next cab off the rank at lock would be one of Beehre, Mcwhannel, Walker Leawere or Shalfoon.
Well who could ever have guessed that selecting 4 locks then playing 3 of them at once could lead to problems with injury cover.
Already touched upon in here but sounds like Vaa'i is out and Tuipulotu and Will Jordan have niggles while Reece and Jacobson are in the frame for the third Test.
Also sounds like Love is seen as a fullback first and foremost and is unlikely to get too many minutes at 10 (which is not a shock, though somewhat disappointing).
Robertson's gone pretty much experimental for the first 2 Tests so I'd be tempted to stick with what works or looks to be working, Scooter for Pat T in the forwards (if fit) and some rotation in the front row. Start Ratima with DMac, and keep Reiko & Jordan in place.
Give QT, Hotham & Lakai plenty of time off the bench.
Did Billy P do enough in the second half to keep him there and does Robertson give Love a shot over BB?
Wow we now have substitutes for the substitutes who in at least one case were the originals substituted! (Scott Barrett). Would like a peek at another 6 and wing option (and maybe 8?) and hope we don't lose too much at 15.
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v France III:
Robertson's gone pretty much experimental for the first 2 Tests so I'd be tempted to stick with what works or looks to be working, Scooter for Pat T in the forwards (if fit) and some rotation in the front row. Start Ratima with DMac, and keep Reiko & Jordan in place.
Give QT, Hotham & Lakai plenty of time off the bench.
Did Billy P do enough in the second half to keep him there and does Robertson give Love a shot over BB?
I know I'm a broken record on this, but every man and his dog knows exactly what BB offers. The only possible point in playing him in a dead rubber against France C is if you want continuity and are experimenting with other players around him. But we already know Jordie and Roigard are 9 and 12.
Playing him in this game - even ignoring my opinion that he shouldn't be there in the first place and was poor last game - would make no sense.
@sparky said in All Blacks v France III:
Vaa'i is a major injury doubt so something like
1 De Groot
2 Taukei'aho
3 Newell (Lomax)
4 Tuipolutu
5 Holland
6 Jacobson
7 Kirifi
8 A. Savea (c)
9 Hotham
10 Love
11 R Ioane
12 J. Barrett
13 Q. Tupaea
14 Narawa
15 Jordan16 McAlister, 17 Norris 18 Tosi 19 Finau 20 Papalii 21 Roigard 22 Big Jim 23 DMac
If you're going to give Love a run, at least put him outside Roigard to start. Hotham would be good for a run off the bench.
@Bones said in All Blacks v France III:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v France III:
Lakai
Have I missed something?
Nah. I forgot he's out with injury.
Pretty much agree with all of that, but just don't think Robertson will ditch him from the 23 - should do though.
But we already know Jordie and Roigard are 9 and 12.
Which gives a good platform to try new players at 10 & 13, He's done that with Billy P, why not at 10?
@Bones said in All Blacks v France III:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v France III:
Lakai
Have I missed something?
Haven't heard what his injury actually was but it didn't look good at the time. I think someone mentioned 5-8 weeks.
@sparky said in All Blacks v France III:
Vaa'i is a major injury doubt so something like
1 De Groot
2 Taukei'aho
3 Newell (Lomax)
4 Tuipolutu
5 Holland
6 Jacobson
7 Kirifi
8 A. Savea (c)
9 Hotham
10 Love
11 R Ioane
12 J. Barrett
13 Q. Tupaea
14 Narawa
15 Jordan16 McAlister, 17 Norris 18 Tosi 19 Finau 20 Papalii 21 Roigard 22 Big Jim 23 DMac
Jeez, can’t wait to see that massive loose forward trio knock blokes on their arse all game
@reprobate On domestic form DMac has been the best 10 for the past 2 years. I don't get it.
@MN5 said in All Blacks v France III:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks v France III:
@canefan said in All Blacks v France III:
Razor is basically selecting how he should have last season
Yes
It was a fault.
We need to explore options at first five right now. Currently our first five tactical kicking and exits are poor. Still getting too many aimless up and unders.
Roigard showed outstanding skill with tactical kicking on Saturday and the 10 needs to do the same.Sititi-Roigard-?-Jordie is now strong. Who's going to grab the ? to take us to 2027.
He'll be thrilled getting a mention despite not playing this year. Charlie Ngatai never had it so good.
It's called extrapolation in my mind
@voodoo said in All Blacks v France III:
@sparky said in All Blacks v France III:
Vaa'i is a major injury doubt so something like
1 De Groot
2 Taukei'aho
3 Newell (Lomax)
4 Tuipolutu
5 Holland
6 Jacobson
7 Kirifi
8 A. Savea (c)
9 Hotham
10 Love
11 R Ioane
12 J. Barrett
13 Q. Tupaea
14 Narawa
15 Jordan16 McAlister, 17 Norris 18 Tosi 19 Finau 20 Papalii 21 Roigard 22 Big Jim 23 DMac
Jeez, can’t wait to see that massive loose forward trio knock blokes on their arse all game
You will have to wait until the props have finished running rampant with the ball.
@reprobate said in All Blacks v France III:
But we already know Jordie and Roigard are 9 and 12.
That's a very big 9 and a small 12 you have there.
I'd be pretty keen to see the following 23 for Saturday:
Love might get a start at fullback.
Flanker/lock Tupou Vaa'i failed his HIA after his head knock in the late stages of Saturday's Test, and lock Patrick Tuipulotu and fullback Will Jordan have both suffered niggling knee injuries.
@Bovidae said in All Blacks v France III:
Love might get a start at fullback.
Flanker/lock Tupou Vaa'i failed his HIA after his head knock in the late stages of Saturday's Test, and lock Patrick Tuipulotu and fullback Will Jordan have both suffered niggling knee injuries.
If Tuipolotu is down as well, that likely means Ah Koui starts and Finau comes into the reserves.
@Canes4life said in All Blacks v France III:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks v France III:
Love might get a start at fullback.
Flanker/lock Tupou Vaa'i failed his HIA after his head knock in the late stages of Saturday's Test, and lock Patrick Tuipulotu and fullback Will Jordan have both suffered niggling knee injuries.
If Tuipolotu is down as well, that likely means Ah Koui starts and Finau comes into the reserves.
If Ah Kuoi is starting at lock I'd rather see Finau start at 6. At this stage they should bring another lock into the squad as cover.
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks v France III:
@reprobate On domestic form DMac has been the best 10 for the past 2 years. I don't get it.
Except when it mattered in the finals
@Bovidae said in All Blacks v France III:
Finau at 6 and Jacobson at no.7 or 8 for me.
Good shout, I think I'd prefer Jacobsen at 7 and Savea at 8, simply because Ardie's more explosive on attack.
@Frank said in All Blacks v France III:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks v France III:
@reprobate On domestic form DMac has been the best 10 for the past 2 years. I don't get it.
Except when it mattered in the finals
You know who else wasn't the best in the finals? Tuipolotu, Vaai, Finau, Beauden Barrett, Jacobson, Roigard, Ratima, Taukeiaho, Proctor, Ioane, Narawa, Norris, Tosi, Kirifi.
And what about Holland, Savea, De Groot, Tavatavanawai, Jordie Barrett - not even good enough to make the finals!
Drop 'em all I say, cantablacks all the way.
Looks like Love could be a good shout for some time in the 10 jersey on Saturday.
