pakman1 year ago
@brodean said in Wallabies vs Lions III:
Would have thought Porter had been penalised out of the game by now. Genge is also dodgy af at scrum time
Wallabies
Match thread
Lions III
Difficult to see really whether that collapse was caused by hinging or the Aussie prop losing his footing.
An interesting aside, something someone posted prior to the last test was that this Italian ref likes to re-set and gives very few scrum penalties. If that is well known then of course ALL props are going to push things.
If it works out, well... why not?
Apparently these guys have the sauce
Can’t see it myself
I’m thinking
Genge, Sheehan, Furlong
Itoje, McCarthy (if fit) / Chessum
Beirne, Curry, Conan
JGP, Russell
Tuipolotu, Ringrose
Lowe, Keenan, Freeman
Replacements
LCD, Porter, Stuart
Chessum/Ryan, Morgan
Mitchell, Farrell, Kinghorn
His focus now that he’s won the series is to include as many Irish in the match day 23 and if they get the whitewash Ireland have momentum going into the Autumn tests
Tough schedule
01 Nov v NZ in Chicago
08 Nov v Japan in Dublin
15 Nov v Australia in Dublin
22 Nov v S Africa in Dublin
If Pollock isn’t in the 23 then he shouldn’t have been on the tour.
Lads made every appearance a winner
@sparky said in Wallabies vs Lions III:
@NTA said in Wallabies vs Lions III:
Weather looks like shit across Sydney for Saturday.
Scottish, Irish, Welsh and the boys from the North of England will feel right at home then.
Like... really shit....
@pakman said in Wallabies vs Lions III:
In that same thread, there’s an interesting overhead view of the first scrum penalty against the Wallabies, with a lot of people again focusing on Porter’s boring in. But when you slow it down and focus just on the actions of the Wallaby pack, then I’d argue the main issue is their faulty timing.
Alaalatoa is a split second ahead of his fellow front-rowers but this split second ripples through the entire pack. Most importantly, the second row loses their connection with the front row, Skelton falling to one knee and Frost being in a diagonal position, leaving both unable to get a decent push on. Furthermore, Wilson detaches almost immediately at the back.
As a result, the togetherness of the Wallaby pack is severely compromised, which the Lions forwards sense and exploit by attacking as a collective. And while Porter is scrumming at an angle, I’d say that, on the whole, the Lions pack shows more cohesion and power in a forward direction.
As the former Wallaby prop Topo Rodriguez writes in his book, Rugby: The Art of Scrummaging (2015, revised ed.), “The necessary timing can’t be achieved if the scrum operates in two sections [...], it has to be the whole eight thinking, acting and reacting as one (89)." Mike Cron would’ve not been pleased, I imagine.
I'd say it's more to do with the second row bind and Wilson's failure to pull them in tight.
Look at the huge gap behind the hooker - Alaatoa's early hit is a consequence, not a cause IMHO
@NTA said in Wallabies vs Lions III:
Alaatoa's early hit is a consequence, not a cause IMHO
I'd agree with that. I suppose what I'm trying to say is that the timing and togetherness of the Wallaby pack as a whole was off, rather than just pointing the finger at Porter for angling in.
I don't understand enough of the mechanics of the scrum to really pinpoint a single point of origin, so I'll leave that to the expertise of others.
@NTA said in Wallabies vs Lions III:
I'd say it's more to do with the second row bind and Wilson's failure to pull them in tight.
Look at the huge gap behind the hooker - Alaatoa's early hit is a consequence, not a cause IMHO
From the overhead it doesn't even look like Wilson has a shoulder driving through the arse of the locks.
Doesn't help that Porter still clearly drives through on the angle.
Two observations from me.
- As I’ve noticed in a few other overhead shots form game, Porter hardly has Chessum’s left shoulder on his huge arse, but Beirne’s right one is rammed in hard. There is no attempt to scrum straight so penalty for me. Vincent Koch is quite similar at TH;
- Other thing which strikes me is that Sheehan has Porter shoulders behind his armpits, so his shoulders may be 6 inches ahead. When AAA engages there is nothing for his right shoulder to contact so he inevitably shoots forward on the hit, which seems to disrupt his connection with Porecki and also Skelton’s by the look of it.
No idea of the legality of Lions approach in this aspect.
Interesting that overhead shot, whole Wallaby pack seem to be going to right trying to wheel scrum? Wilson is pushing Skelton's arse out, causing whole scrum to twist(I suspect to take Lions hooker away from ball?). And other Wallaby lock is turning hooker almost sideways, not sure why. Porter also ends up going in as well, whether to follow Aus tighthead or not is beyond me. Very interesting to see, and gives idea how scrum try and manipulate each other.
Nic White has announced he's retiring from international Rugby after Saturday. He's been around since 2013 and I guess scoring in Wallabies wins agains the All Blacks in 2015 in Sydney and in 2019 in Perth will be the standouts.
Some interesting selections and omissions
No Lowe or Tuipolotu
Hansen hasn’t made an appearance after a solid start
McCarthy must still be injured
Ryan straight in over Chessum
They’ll be looking for Earl, Genge & Mitchell to bring dynamism in the final quarter
Is Tupou the Valetini replacement? Trying to bolster their ball carrying?
Hope his form turns around.
can't say i think that is the best available XV, on reflection throughout the tests, i'm a bit disappointed by the shoe horning in of Irish players. Genge is better than Porter, not sure what Ryan's done to deserve a spot, think Conan is lucky.
Think the bench is mental, Farrell covers 10 and 12, Earl covers back row and 12 but there's a dramatic lack of cover for the other backline positions. Think Marcus should be on the bench instead of Farrell.
@Dodge said in Wallabies vs Lions III:
can't say i think that is the best available XV, on reflection throughout the tests, i'm a bit disappointed by the shoe horning in of Irish players. Genge is better than Porter, not sure what Ryan's done to deserve a spot, think Conan is lucky.
Think the bench is mental, Farrell covers 10 and 12, Earl covers back row and 12 but there's a dramatic lack of cover for the other backline positions. Think Marcus should be on the bench instead of Farrell.
Jones can cover wing, Kinghorn can cover fullback. Don't think Smith's utility value should be enough to see him getting selected over Farrell (though you could argue he's simply a better player).
@Mr-Fish said in Wallabies vs Lions III:
@Dodge said in Wallabies vs Lions III:
can't say i think that is the best available XV, on reflection throughout the tests, i'm a bit disappointed by the shoe horning in of Irish players. Genge is better than Porter, not sure what Ryan's done to deserve a spot, think Conan is lucky.
Think the bench is mental, Farrell covers 10 and 12, Earl covers back row and 12 but there's a dramatic lack of cover for the other backline positions. Think Marcus should be on the bench instead of Farrell.
Jones can cover wing, Kinghorn can cover fullback. Don't think Smith's utility value should be enough to see him getting selected over Farrell (though you could argue he's simply a better player).
I would argue that he's a better player, i would also argue he provides more utility value.
I said above that if Pollock wasn't given a run then he shouldn't have been selected.
I might have to soften that stance a bit, as he's unfortunately been behind Curry (who has smashed the tests to pieces) and Morgan, who hasn't done anything worthy of being dropped. Tough call on Pollock, but I can make peace with it.
Otherwise, agree with everything that Dodge says (first time for everything).
I watched the first test and some of the second in a pub in Portugal that was full of Irish rugby supporters. Honestly speaking, there isn't a lot to like about them. Couple of the brits I was with were rather pissed off as well. Basically it went something like this
Ireland player does something good: "Awesome, he's been doing that for years, pure class"
Non Irish player does something good: ""
Irish player does something shit: "Your better than that, come on pick yourself up and go again"
Non Irish player doe something shit: "Fookin useless coont, fucking Farrell only select on the fooking paymasters, fooking hell, no way should have been ahead of <insert Irish players name here>"
Not generally a an of the Irish rugby supporters, but to add balance, I rarely hear anything bad from those who go to Dublin to watch consistently.
@booboo said in Wallabies vs Lions III:
Is Tupou the Valetini replacement? Trying to bolster their ball carrying?
Hope his form turns around.
Allan Alaalatoa is out injured. They need Tupou for the scrum as well as ball carrying. It's worth the risk that is Tongan Thor. He played well for First Nations Pacific vs Lions.
@Dodge said in Wallabies vs Lions III:
can't say i think that is the best available XV, on reflection throughout the tests, i'm a bit disappointed by the shoe horning in of Irish players. Genge is better than Porter, not sure what Ryan's done to deserve a spot, think Conan is lucky.
Think the bench is mental, Farrell covers 10 and 12, Earl covers back row and 12 but there's a dramatic lack of cover for the other backline positions. Think Marcus should be on the bench instead of Farrell.
I agree with much of all that. Genge should have more minutes on the park than Porter simply because he is a better player both in the tight and in the loose. Ryan's selection I sort of get. McCarthy is out I guess and Beirne is playing at 6 so it comes down to Chessum, who really hasn't put his hand up, Ryan and Cummings. Ryan DID play well when he came on last week. The one who can feel aggrieved here is the surpise of the tour - Cummings. he has played well apart from the initial game. Does he deserve to be picked above Ryan this week? A close call given Ryan's impact last week. The grit in the oyster here though is Ryan's selection over Cummings last week seeing as how he'd been dogshit all tour and hadn't done much in the two years before that. Tuipolotu is either injured or has been shagging AF's missus. I cannot fathom any other reason for Aki being in the 23. Good to see Kinghorn in instead of Lowe - overdue IMO.
A 5.5/2.5 bench is a real risk I feel. We really have no back 3 cover. Jones at a push I suppose but every other option is either a 10 or 12. I've no issue with any of the bench selections individually but I do not see any balance there.
As I see it:
10 goes down = Farrell in.
12 goes down = Farrell or Earl in.
13 goes down = Aki to 13 - not ideal
11, 14 or 15 goes down = we're fucked.
Regardless - c'mon the Irish and British Lions.
Although some of excitement out of game with series decided, I still looking forward to it. Go up to New Plymouth for Naki game and should be home not long after kick off, so will be good. Main thing of interest will be how Wallaby pack goes with Tupou , and whether he pulls out finger and gets stuck in. Also how Lions play the game, they have been pretty keen on moving ball around, but have seen teams before at end of tour (especially with series won) can go off boil just a fraction.
Surely they could have selected Kinghorn AND DVDM for a bit of Scottish familiarity and a chance to really put the sorry Aussies to the sword ?
While looking forward to this tonight, I not quite as excited that now the NPC has started. I am pretty shallow I know. But works well off up to New Plymouth for Naki/Taniwha game. and should only miss first 15 minutes or so of this by the time I get home.
Weather has been atrocious here today - heavy rain overnight then in waves today. Very glad was have a competition Bye for the Lions test as it would have just meant moving all games to the wet weather week anyway.
Might be the last of the rain for now as it's blowing from the south east and that looks clear on the radar - Olympic Park is roughly where you see "Homebush" on the map:
@NTA said in Wallabies vs Lions III:
Weather has been atrocious here today - heavy rain overnight then in waves today.
Lots of the Lions fans, especially any who grew up in Manchester, will be feeling at home.