Apart for the first 20 minutes, our kicking game was average. To me we took the foot off the throat with the Boks gradually working their way back into the game.

Justin Marshall ( don’t usually quote him ) said we lacked variation i.e. we could have kicked from 1st and 2nd as well.

I like the way Ireland do it - moving the point of attack around first and then from center field they kick long into corners. That’s how I remember.

Hate the box kick but recognise the issue with static ball and players getting smashed in the carry. Has to be something better?

@kev said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

Apart for the first 20 minutes, our kicking game was average. To me we took the foot off the throat with the Boks gradually working their way back into the game.

Justin Marshall ( don’t usually quote him ) said we lacked variation i.e. we could have kicked from 1st and 2nd as well.

I like the way Ireland do it - moving the point of attack around first and then from center field they kick long into corners. That’s how I remember.

Hate the box kick but recognise the issue with static ball and players getting smashed in the carry. Has to be something better?

A well executed box kick has quite a few advantages especially when the ball is slow and the conditions aren’t great.

What I would like to see more from the ABs is attacking their secondary defensive line because we showed in glimpses that we could open it up. The Aussies did as well in both of their tests. There are opportunities to make decent metres if we show a bit of imagination from 1st 5.

@ACT-Crusader it helps if your 10 isn't gun shy about taking the ball to the line, and he has something in his bag other than dinky chip kicks and grubbers...

If someone more educated on kicking tactics could enlighten me...

What are the advantages of a box kick compared to passing to the 10 and the 10 kicking and up-and-under? Only ones I can think of are that the forwards can immediately follow up (instead of having to wait to be put on side), and that you can (potentially) get slightly more distance from a box kick.

If the 9 from a lineout/maul does a box kick with long hang time it can potentially come down a couple of metres from touch, making recipient very vulnerable to being bundled into touch.
Seem to recall Conor Murray being great on that in test one of last Boks Lions series.

What is the main reason the Bok dominated territory?

@Frank said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

What is the main reason the Bok dominated territory?

They were in the AB half more than their own.

@Bones said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@Frank said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

What is the main reason the Bok dominated territory?

They were in the AB half more than their own.

BRILLIANT!!!!

@Frank said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@Bones said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@Frank said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

What is the main reason the Bok dominated territory?

They were in the AB half more than their own.

BRILLIANT!!!!

I caught this week's Breakdown.

@Frank said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

What is the main reason the Bok dominated territory?

It was really only the latter part of the second half that they dominated territory. From memory they recycled the ball more with less errors. I don’t think their kicking game was the main reason.
They had a better halfback on which also helped.

@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@Frank said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

What is the main reason the Bok dominated territory?

It was really only the latter part of the second half that they dominated territory. From memory they recycled the ball more with less errors. I don’t think their kicking game was the main reason.
They had a better halfback on which also helped.

Our increased reliance on box kicks, and their decreasing distance gained over time, along with what seemed less success with winning the ball back from those "contestable" kicks, along with the drop in Bok errors you describe, seemed to pin us into our half for a long time

We will probably complain about box kicks less when Roigard is back, as he is generally excellent and gets a lot more distance than all of our other 9s.

@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

We will probably complain about box kicks less when Roigard is back, as he is generally excellent and gets a lot more distance than all of our other 9s.

Fakatava is also very good at them, which makes it even stranger with his complete shutout after signing on again.

@Bones I can’t figure this one out. Would love for someone to educate me on what he’s missing, or does he just play for the wrong team.

@game_film said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@Bones I can’t figure this one out. Would love for someone to educate me on what he’s missing, or does he just play for the wrong team.

Thought he played really well in SR. Built nicely throughout the season, signed with NZR, positive media....then poof, nowhere to be seen.

@game_film said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@Bones I can’t figure this one out. Would love for someone to educate me on what he’s missing, or does he just play for the wrong team.

Fakatavaiknow

@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@game_film said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@Bones I can’t figure this one out. Would love for someone to educate me on what he’s missing, or does he just play for the wrong team.

Fakatavaiknow

Special

@MiketheSnow I’ve never connected his name in that way. But now I can’t unhear it. Bravo.

@Bones said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@game_film said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@Bones I can’t figure this one out. Would love for someone to educate me on what he’s missing, or does he just play for the wrong team.

Thought he played really well in SR. Built nicely throughout the season, signed with NZR, positive media....then poof, nowhere to be seen.

Maybe the coaches are just that spiteful, Sotutu can't get a run because of his phone etiquette, and Fakatava turned Razor down when he tried to woo him to the Crusaders.

@pakman said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

If the 9 from a lineout/maul does a box kick with long hang time it can potentially come down a couple of metres from touch, making recipient very vulnerable to being bundled into touch.
Seem to recall Conor Murray being great on that in test one of last Boks Lions series.

Yep, easier to pin a side on the sideline. Often the theory is not even to catch the box kick, but to nail the receiver and then drive over the ruck.

and that's our problem, not distance, but height. We kick it the required distance, but nowhere near high enough to get our chasers to arrive. So it's an uncontested catch and a simple 7-10m return.

Or the ball goes into touch, seemingly on purpose, gifting the opposition a lineout 30 metres out from the goal line.

@Nepia said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@Bones said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@game_film said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@Bones I can’t figure this one out. Would love for someone to educate me on what he’s missing, or does he just play for the wrong team.

Thought he played really well in SR. Built nicely throughout the season, signed with NZR, positive media....then poof, nowhere to be seen.

Maybe the coaches are just that spiteful, Sotutu can't get a run because of his phone etiquette, and Fakatava turned Razor down when he tried to woo him to the Crusaders.

Don't forget Dalton: one little headbutt and you're on the outer?

@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

and that's our problem, not distance, but height. We kick it the required distance, but nowhere near high enough to get our chasers to arrive. So it's an uncontested catch and a simple 7-10m return.

This applies to restarts too

Take a look at the second half restart

Just awful. Was deepish but it was the opposite of hanging - was flat - allowing the boks to catch it with ease and space to run forward leading to an easy exit.

Reece released to Southland. Hard to see him playing for the All Blacks again. Fainga’anuku released too

@frugby said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

Reece released to Southland. Hard to see him playing for the All Blacks again. Fainga’anuku released too

Sam Darry also

Leicester on the bench for Ta$man so not going to be involved in test 2

Assuming Jordan at fullback is a certainty, this points to Rieko moving to the right wing.

@Bovidae the other thought I had was Rieko might be moving to 13, hence Fainga’anuku being released.

Otherwise Leroy Carter would have made more sense to be released?

@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

and that's our problem, not distance, but height. We kick it the required distance, but nowhere near high enough to get our chasers to arrive. So it's an uncontested catch and a simple 7-10m return.

This applies to restarts too

Take a look at the second half restart

Just awful. Was deepish but it was the opposite of hanging - was flat - allowing the boks to catch it with ease and space to run forward leading to an easy exit.

there was a bomb BB put up i think off a lineout that didn't even make the advantage line and we STILL didn't recover

Reiko on bench and Carter , Jordan wings
McKenzie 15 and apparently Christie is benched

I like the BB - DMac 10/15 combo, it has had success in the past, and it's worked much better than the Mo'unga - BB combo. Having a genuine playmaker at the back can take some heat off BB trying to create everything as well.

My assumption is our line up will be

1. Ethan De Groot
2. Samisoni T
3. Fletcher Newall
4. Scott Barrett
5. Tupou Vaii
6. Simon Parker
7. Ardie Savea
8. Wallace Sitti
9. Finley Christie
10. Beauden Barrett
11. Caleb Clarke
12. Jordie Barrett
13. Billy Proctor
14. Reiko Ioane
15. Will Jordan
16. Brodie M
17. Tamaiti Williams
18. Tyrel Lomax
19. Fabian Holland
20. Luke Jacobson
21. Noah Hotham
22. Damian Mckenzie
23. Quinn Tupea

@george33 said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

Reiko on bench and Carter , Jordan wings
McKenzie 15 and apparently Christie is benched

Encouraging.
Showing they are adapting and learning.
DMac was far better than Jordan last week.
Suggests Clarke at 11.

@george33 said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

Reiko on bench and Carter , Jordan wings
McKenzie 15 and apparently Christie is benched

I heard something similar on the radio , same starting back 3 as that with reiko out of the 23 and love on the bench

@handa457 Won't be far away.

Three main questions:

(i) Which props start and which are on the bench. They may switch this around to create better matches for our guys.

(ii) Who is available at halfback and who plays where - Christie, Ratima, Hotham and Preston all somewhat in contention. I'm inclined to think Christie will be there - benched if Ratima is available, starting if paired with either Hotham or Preston.

(iii) How they configure the back three (and the bench cover).

Liam Napier hinting that Leroy Carter could be in the 23 and usually his oil is impeccable but the actual article seems quite speculative by his standards.

@Chris-B said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@handa457 Won't be far away.

Three main questions:

(i) Which props start and which are on the bench. They may switch this around to create better matches for our guys.

(ii) Who is available at halfback and who plays where - Christie, Ratima, Hotham and Preston all somewhat in contention. I'm inclined to think Christie will be there - benched if Ratima is available, starting if paired with either Hotham or Preston.

(iii) How they configure the back three (and the bench cover).

Boks are playing a 6' 4" LH off the bench. I like the sound of Williams, McAlister and Newell on our bench. Plenty of cohesion.

@KiwiMurph His team: 15. Damian McKenzie, 14. Will Jordan, 13. Billy Proctor, 12. Jordie Barrett, 11. Leroy Carter/Caleb Clarke, 10. Beauden Barrett, 9. Noah Hotham, 8. Wallace Sititi, 7 .Ardie Savea, 6. Simon Parker, 5. Tupou Vaa’i, 4. Scott Barrett (c), 3. Tyrel Lomax, 2. Samisoni Taukei’aho, 1. Ethan de Groot. Replacements: 16. Brodie McAlister, 17. Tamaiti Williams, 18. Fletcher Newell, 19. Fabian Holland, 20. Du’Plessis Kirifi, 21. Finlay Christie, 22. Ruben Love, 23. Quinn Tupaea.

@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

I like the BB - DMac 10/15 combo, it has had success in the past, and it's worked much better than the Mo'unga - BB combo. Having a genuine playmaker at the back can take some heat off BB trying to create everything as well.

It was one of the interesting things about that failed '2 playmaker' time for me: DM + either was okay, BB + Mo'unga was godawful.
Not advocating for it, because as I'm sure most are aware by now I think BB should just get the arse, but it was interesting how one guy could make it work whoever he was paired with, and the other two couldn't manage it together.