@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@MN5 said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@Billy-Webb said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@NTA said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

Fist half thoughts:

Early on the ABs looked good if a little shaky under line speed pressure.

The first AB try was very nice. The intercept from Kolbe was a lack of eyes-up play by Proctor. Could have scored at the other end but the pace got to him.

Vaai is a dickhead. Not really a profound observation maybe he should concentrate on pushing at scrums instead of clapping and laughing?

Wiesse is the avatar of rip and tear.

Boks scrum going great guns with 30 gone.

B Barrett looking ponderous and slow. He doesn't like heavy traffic. Failed to exit right before half-time which was a basic bitch error.

New Bok winger is bloody useful.

AB defensive line noticeably crooked. Pushing hard in the first 2 channels but lagging a bit wider.

AB Lineout at 35:50 - wtf happened??

Everyone playing as frantically as a virgin couple on their wedding night. With about as satisfying a result.

Lot of injuries and HIA.

Impression: Boks are ascendant but not finishing their opportunities. ABs are attacking from depth - too deep IMHO - but lacking a bit of subtlety; not much in the way of deception.

Bed time. Second half tomorrow.

Great overall insights as ever Nick.
The bolded bit is not so much because I feel you're wrong - too much - but more because on replay you have to admire how Cheslin pressured him to pass, with the intention of then trying for the intercept.

With all the talk of proctor coming in because he’s a distributing centre , he didn’t do the basics there and make the defender commit to him before he passed .

Proctor must be seriously running out of chances.

Past AB coaches jettisoned Laumape and Moala quicker than this.

I wasn’t intentionally having a crack at him but just saying it how I saw it , he fluffed his opportunity to show why he was brought in , instead of putting his winger in space he passed too early and allowed kolbie to go for the ball .
Kolbie loves to go the ball not the man , if he dummies at that moment, strong chance kolbie runs at the gap and comes up empty.

It wasn't the only time in that game either. Too many players passing laterally when someone needed to take it to the line

@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@MN5 said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@Billy-Webb said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@NTA said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

Fist half thoughts:

Early on the ABs looked good if a little shaky under line speed pressure.

The first AB try was very nice. The intercept from Kolbe was a lack of eyes-up play by Proctor. Could have scored at the other end but the pace got to him.

Vaai is a dickhead. Not really a profound observation maybe he should concentrate on pushing at scrums instead of clapping and laughing?

Wiesse is the avatar of rip and tear.

Boks scrum going great guns with 30 gone.

B Barrett looking ponderous and slow. He doesn't like heavy traffic. Failed to exit right before half-time which was a basic bitch error.

New Bok winger is bloody useful.

AB defensive line noticeably crooked. Pushing hard in the first 2 channels but lagging a bit wider.

AB Lineout at 35:50 - wtf happened??

Everyone playing as frantically as a virgin couple on their wedding night. With about as satisfying a result.

Lot of injuries and HIA.

Impression: Boks are ascendant but not finishing their opportunities. ABs are attacking from depth - too deep IMHO - but lacking a bit of subtlety; not much in the way of deception.

Bed time. Second half tomorrow.

Great overall insights as ever Nick.
The bolded bit is not so much because I feel you're wrong - too much - but more because on replay you have to admire how Cheslin pressured him to pass, with the intention of then trying for the intercept.

With all the talk of proctor coming in because he’s a distributing centre , he didn’t do the basics there and make the defender commit to him before he passed .

Proctor must be seriously running out of chances.

Past AB coaches jettisoned Laumape and Moala quicker than this.

I wasn’t intentionally having a crack at him but just saying it how I saw it , he fluffed his opportunity to show why he was brought in , instead of putting his winger in space he passed too early and allowed kolbie to go for the ball .
Kolbie loves to go the ball not the man , if he dummies at that moment, strong chance kolbie runs at the gap and comes up empty.

Exactly this. Kolbe does this all the damn time, and he is good at it.
Therefore, if Proctor had been prepared properly he would have been aware of that - unfortunately we can't know whether he was prepped and it was his mistake, or whether he wasn't and it is poor coaching.

Billy Proctor should watch how Brian To'o in the league managed to draw and pass to set up the outside man.

@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@MN5 said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@Billy-Webb said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@NTA said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

Fist half thoughts:

Early on the ABs looked good if a little shaky under line speed pressure.

The first AB try was very nice. The intercept from Kolbe was a lack of eyes-up play by Proctor. Could have scored at the other end but the pace got to him.

Vaai is a dickhead. Not really a profound observation maybe he should concentrate on pushing at scrums instead of clapping and laughing?

Wiesse is the avatar of rip and tear.

Boks scrum going great guns with 30 gone.

B Barrett looking ponderous and slow. He doesn't like heavy traffic. Failed to exit right before half-time which was a basic bitch error.

New Bok winger is bloody useful.

AB defensive line noticeably crooked. Pushing hard in the first 2 channels but lagging a bit wider.

AB Lineout at 35:50 - wtf happened??

Everyone playing as frantically as a virgin couple on their wedding night. With about as satisfying a result.

Lot of injuries and HIA.

Impression: Boks are ascendant but not finishing their opportunities. ABs are attacking from depth - too deep IMHO - but lacking a bit of subtlety; not much in the way of deception.

Bed time. Second half tomorrow.

Great overall insights as ever Nick.
The bolded bit is not so much because I feel you're wrong - too much - but more because on replay you have to admire how Cheslin pressured him to pass, with the intention of then trying for the intercept.

With all the talk of proctor coming in because he’s a distributing centre , he didn’t do the basics there and make the defender commit to him before he passed .

Proctor must be seriously running out of chances.

Past AB coaches jettisoned Laumape and Moala quicker than this.

I wasn’t intentionally having a crack at him but just saying it how I saw it , he fluffed his opportunity to show why he was brought in , instead of putting his winger in space he passed too early and allowed kolbie to go for the ball .
Kolbie loves to go the ball not the man , if he dummies at that moment, strong chance kolbie runs at the gap and comes up empty.

Exactly this. Kolbe does this all the damn time, and he is good at it.
Therefore, if Proctor had been prepared properly he would have been aware of that - unfortunately we can't know whether he was prepped and it was his mistake, or whether he wasn't and it is poor coaching.

Kolbe scored almost an identical try against the All Blacks in Wellington off an ALB pass years back which also lead to a Springbok victory. He's renowned for it so yes the ABs and Proctor himself should have been prepared for it. My issue here is that the coaching simply isn't good enough, especially in the backs. Holland and Ellison are both out of their depth and my question is how much longer can we afford to put up with it?

Proctor has been so consistent for the Canes and Wellington for the last three seasons and he just looks like a completely different player for the ABs, struggling to adapt to a gameplan that really doesn't suit him. He's mostly being used as a dummy runner and he's spending most of his time either blowing out rucks or chasing long kicks. He's been given very few opportunities in space due to our relentless kicking game, and I actually thought before that pass on Saturday, he was having his best test yet.

Razor needs to make some tough calls both within his coaching team, who he wants leading this team moving forward, and obviously the players on the paddock.

Against Aus I wouldn't mind seeing wholesale changes and the below team get a crack. I just think certain players would benefit from taking a seat for the next test before we blow their confidence entirely.

1. Williams
2. Taylor
3. Newell
4. Holland
5. Va'ai
6. Parker
7. Lakai
8. Sititi
9. Roigard
10. McKenzie
11. Carter
12. Tupaea
13. Fainganuku
14. Jordan
15. Love
16. Taukei'aho
17. De Groot
18. Lomax
19. Barrett
20. Savea
21. Preston
22. Barrett
23. Barrett

@MN5 said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

Past AB coaches jettisoned Laumape and Moala quicker than this.

Maybe my bad memory but didn't also Moala have a bad run with injuries?

@stodders said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@Billy-Webb said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@NTA said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

Fist half thoughts:

Early on the ABs looked good if a little shaky under line speed pressure.

The first AB try was very nice. The intercept from Kolbe was a lack of eyes-up play by Proctor. Could have scored at the other end but the pace got to him.

Vaai is a dickhead. Not really a profound observation maybe he should concentrate on pushing at scrums instead of clapping and laughing?

Wiesse is the avatar of rip and tear.

Boks scrum going great guns with 30 gone.

B Barrett looking ponderous and slow. He doesn't like heavy traffic. Failed to exit right before half-time which was a basic bitch error.

New Bok winger is bloody useful.

AB defensive line noticeably crooked. Pushing hard in the first 2 channels but lagging a bit wider.

AB Lineout at 35:50 - wtf happened??

Everyone playing as frantically as a virgin couple on their wedding night. With about as satisfying a result.

Lot of injuries and HIA.

Impression: Boks are ascendant but not finishing their opportunities. ABs are attacking from depth - too deep IMHO - but lacking a bit of subtlety; not much in the way of deception.

Bed time. Second half tomorrow.

Great overall insights as ever Nick.
The bolded bit is not so much because I feel you're wrong - too much - but more because on replay you have to admire how Cheslin pressured him to pass, with the intention of then trying for the intercept.

With all the talk of proctor coming in because he’s a distributing centre , he didn’t do the basics there and make the defender commit to him before he passed .

Think you have to give Kolbe a fair amount of credit there. He shaped to commit to the tackle and then changed with great speed to snare the intercept. He fooled Proctor, but I think many players would have got done there.

Most players make decisions based on the shapes and body language they see. When you look at it from behind Proctor, Kolbe makes the shape to tackle. If Kolbe had committed to the tackle and Proctor had held on, there would be howls that he didn’t pass.

I still think he had time to either delay a bit more , or double pump pass ( you can hold back the second one) but those things are instinctive and you do it naturally or you don’t .

But we are agreeing anyway, the winger gets all the credit and sucks him in .

@stodders said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@Billy-Webb said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@NTA said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

Fist half thoughts:

Early on the ABs looked good if a little shaky under line speed pressure.

The first AB try was very nice. The intercept from Kolbe was a lack of eyes-up play by Proctor. Could have scored at the other end but the pace got to him.

Vaai is a dickhead. Not really a profound observation maybe he should concentrate on pushing at scrums instead of clapping and laughing?

Wiesse is the avatar of rip and tear.

Boks scrum going great guns with 30 gone.

B Barrett looking ponderous and slow. He doesn't like heavy traffic. Failed to exit right before half-time which was a basic bitch error.

New Bok winger is bloody useful.

AB defensive line noticeably crooked. Pushing hard in the first 2 channels but lagging a bit wider.

AB Lineout at 35:50 - wtf happened??

Everyone playing as frantically as a virgin couple on their wedding night. With about as satisfying a result.

Lot of injuries and HIA.

Impression: Boks are ascendant but not finishing their opportunities. ABs are attacking from depth - too deep IMHO - but lacking a bit of subtlety; not much in the way of deception.

Bed time. Second half tomorrow.

Great overall insights as ever Nick.
The bolded bit is not so much because I feel you're wrong - too much - but more because on replay you have to admire how Cheslin pressured him to pass, with the intention of then trying for the intercept.

With all the talk of proctor coming in because he’s a distributing centre , he didn’t do the basics there and make the defender commit to him before he passed .

Think you have to give Kolbe a fair amount of credit there. He shaped to commit to the tackle and then changed with great speed to snare the intercept. He fooled Proctor, but I think many players would have got done there.

Most players make decisions based on the shapes and body language they see. When you look at it from behind Proctor, Kolbe makes the shape to tackle. If Kolbe had committed to the tackle and Proctor had held on, there would be howls that he didn’t pass.

Very much what Beaver said.

@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@Tim Mils providing two clear examples that BB kicked when he shouldn’t have - first when we were down 7 points and we had acres of space out wide with players aligned for in attack and limited Bok defenders. Terrible play.

Second we are now down by 14 and a miracle chip when we had numbers out wide and space but didn’t use it. Big momentum turner when the Boks recovered the ball and kicked it down the line into their 22.

That’s not team tactics but blinkered play from our 1st 5.

"hates an overlap" @Bones

@Billy-Webb said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@NTA said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

Fist half thoughts:

Early on the ABs looked good if a little shaky under line speed pressure.

The first AB try was very nice. The intercept from Kolbe was a lack of eyes-up play by Proctor. Could have scored at the other end but the pace got to him.

Vaai is a dickhead. Not really a profound observation maybe he should concentrate on pushing at scrums instead of clapping and laughing?

Wiesse is the avatar of rip and tear.

Boks scrum going great guns with 30 gone.

B Barrett looking ponderous and slow. He doesn't like heavy traffic. Failed to exit right before half-time which was a basic bitch error.

New Bok winger is bloody useful.

AB defensive line noticeably crooked. Pushing hard in the first 2 channels but lagging a bit wider.

AB Lineout at 35:50 - wtf happened??

Everyone playing as frantically as a virgin couple on their wedding night. With about as satisfying a result.

Lot of injuries and HIA.

Impression: Boks are ascendant but not finishing their opportunities. ABs are attacking from depth - too deep IMHO - but lacking a bit of subtlety; not much in the way of deception.

Bed time. Second half tomorrow.

Great overall insights as ever Nick.
The bolded bit is not so much because I feel you're wrong - too much - but more because on replay you have to admire how Cheslin pressured him to pass, with the intention of then trying for the intercept.

Yeah nah as you boys say

Proctor could have delayed or not pass

He fucked up

Wear it

@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@MN5 said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@Billy-Webb said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@NTA said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

Fist half thoughts:

Early on the ABs looked good if a little shaky under line speed pressure.

The first AB try was very nice. The intercept from Kolbe was a lack of eyes-up play by Proctor. Could have scored at the other end but the pace got to him.

Vaai is a dickhead. Not really a profound observation maybe he should concentrate on pushing at scrums instead of clapping and laughing?

Wiesse is the avatar of rip and tear.

Boks scrum going great guns with 30 gone.

B Barrett looking ponderous and slow. He doesn't like heavy traffic. Failed to exit right before half-time which was a basic bitch error.

New Bok winger is bloody useful.

AB defensive line noticeably crooked. Pushing hard in the first 2 channels but lagging a bit wider.

AB Lineout at 35:50 - wtf happened??

Everyone playing as frantically as a virgin couple on their wedding night. With about as satisfying a result.

Lot of injuries and HIA.

Impression: Boks are ascendant but not finishing their opportunities. ABs are attacking from depth - too deep IMHO - but lacking a bit of subtlety; not much in the way of deception.

Bed time. Second half tomorrow.

Great overall insights as ever Nick.
The bolded bit is not so much because I feel you're wrong - too much - but more because on replay you have to admire how Cheslin pressured him to pass, with the intention of then trying for the intercept.

With all the talk of proctor coming in because he’s a distributing centre , he didn’t do the basics there and make the defender commit to him before he passed .

Proctor must be seriously running out of chances.

Past AB coaches jettisoned Laumape and Moala quicker than this.

I wasn’t intentionally having a crack at him but just saying it how I saw it , he fluffed his opportunity to show why he was brought in , instead of putting his winger in space he passed too early and allowed kolbie to go for the ball .
Kolbie loves to go the ball not the man , if he dummies at that moment, strong chance kolbie runs at the gap and comes up empty.

Exactly this. Kolbe does this all the damn time, and he is good at it.
Therefore, if Proctor had been prepared properly he would have been aware of that - unfortunately we can't know whether he was prepped and it was his mistake, or whether he wasn't and it is poor coaching.

Proctor has been so consistent for the Canes and Wellington for the last three seasons and he just looks like a completely different player for the ABs, struggling to adapt to a gameplan that really doesn't suit him. He's mostly being used as a dummy runner and he's spending most of his time either blowing out rucks or chasing long kicks. He's been given very few opportunities in space due to our relentless kicking game, and I actually thought before that pass on Saturday, he was having his best test yet.

Identical to the issue Rieko had at centre then. Boggles my mind that we wouldn't try to utilise both players running game when both are so dangerous ball in hand.

I wasn't that bothered by the intercept, that shit happens. The huge problem was we appeared to change our gameplan as a result and started kicking it a lot more, which led to the 2nd half disaster. Complete lack of leadership when a simple intercept makes you shelve a gameplan that was actually finding space.

I'm pissed off, I really wanted the ABs to find a solid 13.

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@MN5 said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

Past AB coaches jettisoned Laumape and Moala quicker than this.

Maybe my bad memory but didn't also Moala have a bad run with injuries?

Yeah and a bit of off field silliness didn’t help either

@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

I wasn't that bothered by the intercept, that shit happens. The huge problem was we appeared to change our gameplan as a result and started kicking it a lot more, which led to the 2nd half disaster. Complete lack of leadership when a simple intercept makes you shelve a gameplan that was actually finding space.

People whinge about Rieko but I don't ever remember him throwing an intercept. Proctor is in there for his distribution game.

Proctor has zero try assists this season.

On another note Kirifi has won a single turnover.

@brodean said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

I wasn't that bothered by the intercept, that shit happens. The huge problem was we appeared to change our gameplan as a result and started kicking it a lot more, which led to the 2nd half disaster. Complete lack of leadership when a simple intercept makes you shelve a gameplan that was actually finding space.

People whinge about Rieko but I don't ever remember him throwing an intercept. Proctor is in there for his distribution game.

Proctor has zero try assists this season.

On another note Kirifi has won a single turnover.

Gotta throw a pass for it to be intercepted mate.

@brodean said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

I wasn't that bothered by the intercept, that shit happens. The huge problem was we appeared to change our gameplan as a result and started kicking it a lot more, which led to the 2nd half disaster. Complete lack of leadership when a simple intercept makes you shelve a gameplan that was actually finding space.

People whinge about Rieko but I don't ever remember him throwing an intercept. Proctor is in there for his distribution game.

Proctor has zero try assists this season.

On another note Kirifi has won a single turnover.

Goes back to gameplan. Our backline is rarely getting the opportunity to showcase their ball playing ability. We ran the ball for about the first 15 minutes of the test on Saturday and we were looking dangerous, then we reverted back to kicking the ball away and surprise surprise, we looked like shit again.

There was a notable example in the second half when we had a three man overlap running out of our own 22 and Beaudy decided to kick it. This is exactly what's hampering us atm, and I feel for both Proctor and Ioane who probably haven't been allowed to show what they are capable of because they just aren't getting enough chances to do so.

@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@brodean said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

I wasn't that bothered by the intercept, that shit happens. The huge problem was we appeared to change our gameplan as a result and started kicking it a lot more, which led to the 2nd half disaster. Complete lack of leadership when a simple intercept makes you shelve a gameplan that was actually finding space.

People whinge about Rieko but I don't ever remember him throwing an intercept. Proctor is in there for his distribution game.

Proctor has zero try assists this season.

On another note Kirifi has won a single turnover.

Gotta throw a pass for it to be intercepted mate.

Maybe its better to throw no pass instead of an intercept pass that leads to a try?

@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@brodean said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

I wasn't that bothered by the intercept, that shit happens. The huge problem was we appeared to change our gameplan as a result and started kicking it a lot more, which led to the 2nd half disaster. Complete lack of leadership when a simple intercept makes you shelve a gameplan that was actually finding space.

People whinge about Rieko but I don't ever remember him throwing an intercept. Proctor is in there for his distribution game.

Proctor has zero try assists this season.

On another note Kirifi has won a single turnover.

Goes back to gameplan. Our backline is rarely getting the opportunity to showcase their ball playing ability. We ran the ball for about the first 15 minutes of the test on Saturday and we were looking dangerous, then we reverted back to kicking the ball away and surprise surprise, we looked like shit again.

There was a notable example in the second half when we had a three man overlap running out of our own 22 and Beaudy decided to kick it. This is exactly what's hampering us atm, and I feel for both Proctor and Ioane who probably haven't been allowed to show what they are capable of because they just aren't getting enough chances to do so.

Thats BB. He's incapable of focusing on a game plan for 80 minutes.

Worth noting that the way the backline is setup the 13 doesn't make many passes

If the ball gets to the wing it's Jordie passing out the back to someone else who then passes to the wing. The centre plays flat so is the decoy if it's going wide.

If it does get to the centre, the vast majority of the time its to take it to the line

In this setup the centre often passes less than the wings

Here's the stats for what I was talking about above

@brodean said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

I wasn't that bothered by the intercept, that shit happens. The huge problem was we appeared to change our gameplan as a result and started kicking it a lot more, which led to the 2nd half disaster. Complete lack of leadership when a simple intercept makes you shelve a gameplan that was actually finding space.

People whinge about Rieko but I don't ever remember him throwing an intercept. Proctor is in there for his distribution game.

Proctor has zero try assists this season.

On another note Kirifi has won a single turnover.

And that's the issue when picking Kirifi. If he doesn't win turnover ball which is a lot harder to achieve at international level, then what is he there for? It's all he has to his game. I didn't mind him getting a go as reward for what he has done domestically, but after 6 tests and at 28 years old, what more is he gonna show us?

@African-Monkey would he be there if Jacobsen was fit? I don’t think so.

@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@African-Monkey would he be there if Jacobsen was fit? I don’t think so.

Whether or not he's in the 23 when Jacobson returns he takes up a spot that could go to someone else in the wider squad.

Meanwhile more tests tick over without Lakai getting a look and Lio Willie has been discarded from the squad.

There was certainly an opportunity wasted to look at alternatives for the bench loose forward.

They have had a look at 4 new loosie options this year...

CLW, Vaai, Kirifi and Parker...

@Duluth said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

Worth noting that the way the backline is setup the 13 doesn't make many passes

If the ball gets to the wing it's Jordie passing out the back to someone else who then passes to the wing. The centre plays flat so is the decoy if it's going wide.

If it does get to the centre, the vast majority of the time its to take it to the line

In this setup the centre often passes less than the wings

Yep, I've been watching closely and Proctor has mostly been a dummy runner on attack and a man used as a first clean option when the likes of Jordie takes it into contact.

Can you get those stats? It would be also interesting to see how many times Proctor passed for the Canes compared to the ABs. Just totally different gameplans which isn't helping him progress and get comfortable in one of the hardest positions within the team.

@Duluth said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

Here's the stats for what I was talking about above

View image

What I get from those stats is tight forwards should not be passing that much in a game.

They should be hitting rucks, hitting mauls, with some carries.

The out the back stuff is horse shit. Its the same pattern the Crusaders played last year to their detriment. All of the strike runners end up running diagonally across the field and no one is running hard and straight onto the ball.

@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@African-Monkey would he be there if Jacobsen was fit? I don’t think so.

Whether or not he's in the 23 when Jacobson returns he takes up a spot that could go to someone else in the wider squad.

Meanwhile more tests tick over without Lakai getting a look and Lio Willie has been discarded from the squad.

Jacobson was probably the Chiefs best player this year but if he's not fit he shouldn't be in the squad.

@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

Can you get those stats

Nothing that specific sorry

Jacobson is a good player, but he's a glue player. We've gone from having him, Blackadder and Dalton all there, to having none of them. All glue to no glue, it's no wonder shit's falling apart.

@brodean said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

I wasn't that bothered by the intercept, that shit happens. The huge problem was we appeared to change our gameplan as a result and started kicking it a lot more, which led to the 2nd half disaster. Complete lack of leadership when a simple intercept makes you shelve a gameplan that was actually finding space.

People whinge about Rieko but I don't ever remember him throwing an intercept. Proctor is in there for his distribution game.

Proctor has zero try assists this season.

I said when people were clamouring for a "distributing centre" to replace Rieko that the vast majority of the problem was the way the attack was structured. I was often told I didn't know what I was talking about and Rieko was a winge in the wrong position who couldn't pass.

Their tune has fucking changed now.

On another note Kirifi has won a single turnover.

Yep - congrats your SR form got you the jersey you've coveted, but you're not Test material.

@brodean said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

The out the back stuff is horse shit. Its the same pattern the Crusaders played last year to their detriment. All of the strike runners end up running diagonally across the field and no one is running hard and straight onto the ball.

seemed to work nicely in the first half. I thought it looked good

@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@brodean said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

The out the back stuff is horse shit. Its the same pattern the Crusaders played last year to their detriment. All of the strike runners end up running diagonally across the field and no one is running hard and straight onto the ball.

seemed to work nicely in the first half. I thought it looked good

It does create space.

The Boks ran some NFL style plays and whilst it looks like obstruction it wasn’t called. We need more dummy runners rather than just one or two.

@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@African-Monkey would he be there if Jacobsen was fit? I don’t think so.

For me, there's better versatile options out there. Kirifi is only a 7 and is a one trick pony in that 7 position.

@Duluth said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

Worth noting that the way the backline is setup the 13 doesn't make many passes

If the ball gets to the wing it's Jordie passing out the back to someone else who then passes to the wing. The centre plays flat so is the decoy if it's going wide.

If it does get to the centre, the vast majority of the time its to take it to the line

In this setup the centre often passes less than the wings

Which is mental

I played inside centre because I could put a man in space and I had no wheels

My outside centre was the man in space, and he had wheels

@Billy-Webb said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

The bolded bit is not so much because I feel you're wrong - too much - but more because on replay you have to admire how Cheslin pressured him to pass, with the intention of then trying for the intercept.

I don't know that I'd see it quite like that.

As the ball comes out of the ruck, Kolbe retreats to cover any kicks through, leaving Reinach to head into the line and take Jordan at second receiver. At this point you've got Proctor, Parker, and Carter against Kolbe who sprints back into the line and decides to go for it. He's never in a position to make a tackle IMHO and Proctor never fixes him in defence.

Fassi is the only defender left if that ball finds Parker and then Carter OR Proctor holds it and stands Kolbe up.

Proctor makes a decision which in retrospect you could easily say is good: offloading in contact is worse than passing and staying alive. He passes a step earlier or later, and Kolbe is still in no-man's land and Carter in the corner

Kolbe makes a good read, as it turns out. He gets into space to make a tackle but he has to pick one of three or none of three, and gets it right

Second half thoughts:

McKenzie good in the air a couple of times, but gets beaten later not getting into the space a couple of times as well. Wind factor?

Noticeable - like the Kolbe intercept - that the Boks are leaving a lot of space for the last defender to cover BUT they're rushing into the eyeline of the attacker e.g. Savea's forward pass at the start of the 2nd half due to the 12 rushing hard.

It looks like a lack of patience; like watching my club side get two offloads away and making some metres, so they keep trying it but fail to understand they're running out of guys to cover rucks.

Bok 2nd try was error after error from the ABs - first all the back rowers are pinned in a retreating and penalisable scrum, then rangaboi puts a high tackle on Reinach for two penalties in a row. Meanwhile the AB backline have shot out of the line and are busy ruck watching when Kolisi takes the pop. Jordan and Sititi utterly fail to cover this breakout, leaving Jordie Barrett to do the work and leave the right side exposed. After Kolisi is tackled, the numbers aren't bad, just looking inward instead of at the danger on the edge: Kolbe.

Not sure why the AB restarts are so deep. Every time Wiese gets a runup and the Boks get a fairly easy possession.

In the 45th minute BB fields a kick and gives it to McKenzie on the 22 but outside - instead of using Jordie and Carter outside him he kicks it straight away. A minute later they get the ball deep inside their 22 and BB to McKenzie who has to try and find touch from the middle of the field. Not sure if there is any clear plan here.

Vaa'i puts in a stupid shoulder charge and is still doing the dickhead laugh and tough guy act after someone reacts. Hardly the "stoic, grim-faced and noble" AB of mythology. I guess there are some Chiefs fans who love it tho :man_shrugging:

Sititi really looks half a yard off the pace. Tamaiti Williams looks 5 yards off the pace.

At 50 minutes the handling errors and penalties are pretty even but the turnovers conceded favours the ABs 7-10. As Darryl Kerrigan said: "It's what you do with it".

The space is still there on the edges for the ABs, but jeez the skill execution is letting them down - Jordan's wobbly spiral that misses Proctor (who looked too slow TBH) and lands at Carter's feet being a prime example. Jordan should have gone at or around Libbok like the Wallabies did.

ABs a bit unlucky to get penalised at the scrum just on 54:00 - Bok THP elbow pointing straight down.

OMG 55:00 Bok forward pass missed (AR straight in line) then Savea turns it over only for BB to faff around. There is no clear direction in his mind - unless there is some magical bullshit involved, and a rampant forward pack, Barrett has no idea. And a chip kick right after it. Lol sack him.

Wiese eats black jerseys for dinner. Sititi, by comparison, tries a rugby league strip at nearly every tackle.

ABs blow a chance at competitiveness with obstruction at a maul in the 59th minute. After that we're through the looking glass, Alice... I think from this point I was actually watching the game, so I'll go bullet points from here.

• Boks young guns start expressing themselves.
• Backup AB hooker is partly to blame, but fucking around at lineout moreso.
• Three ABs (Tupaea, Carter, Rangaboi) fail to bring down Willemse. Yeesh. They paused instead of smacking a guy on the back foot.
• CHIP KICK! OVERTHROW! OVERKICK!
• At 65:00 missed tackles: ABs 31-29 Boks
• Stupid offload by Jordan after taking the high ball gives the Boks a scrum with 13 to go just outside the AB 22.
• Hooker's break of BB's shit kick made to look better by a fairly shit AB chase line. Sets up field position for Kwagga's try
• Snyman's try is all down to Holland shooting out. I said that on the day I believe.
• 75:35 Hey Will Jordan: two hands for beginners! Tho at the scrum immediately afterwards the Boks should have been pinged as their THP absolutely shit the bed.
• CROSSFIELD KICK! CHIP KICK ARDIE!
• Tamaiti Williams out of alignment for the Boks last try, and instead of advancing, he retreats.

And a bloodied but victorious Esterhuizen is the icing on the cake.

That's the nuts and bolts. New post coming for summary thoughts.

BB ffs

Get a semi decent fly half and half the problems are solved.

@autoeuropean said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

BB ffs

Get a semi decent fly half and half the problems are solved.

If the coach can't see that? Sack the coach

To me, the scoreline reflects the mindset of both teams.

Springboks know what their plan is, and have burned it into the frontal lobe of every player in the squad. As long as they have their set piece in order, big bodies in midfield, and pace on the edges, they'll keep doing that while it is winning games.

It doesn't always win, because it can be countered if If IF you can compete in the air, or pressure their lineout. But it is high percentage and effective when you've got fit bodies. By my reckoning they're down to their 3rd string front row and still performing, and managed several early injuries. There is a strength in simplicity.

All Blacks look like they're running on an assumed superiority of skill and fitness; a team that looks like their guiding light is a mix of motivational surfer quotes and trick shot pool.

That might be a bit of legacy haunting them TBH - well I remember BB pulling off utterly bullshit kicks that bounced into his arms after nearly brushing the sideline paint to score a try against the Wallabies.

When the magic is gone, you need to roll up your sleeves. Of course when the magic comes back, it becomes much easier.