@stodders said in Springboks vs Pumas I:

@akan004 said in Springboks vs Pumas I:

@ExiledHalfback said in Springboks vs Pumas I:

NZRU need to get their head out of their arses. Overseas player selections hasn't damaged the Curry Cup as a competition.

We are a joke right now. Handicapping ourselves by not even allowing players who have returned to NZ to be picked - i.e Leicester. We simply aren't good enough to be this stupid. A pro game run by amateurs.

Who is playing overseas that the All Blacks would select?

NZ is fighting a losing battle given their geography and the strength of the Kiwi dollar to keep young talent in NZ. If NZ allow players to be selected from abroad, then it will gut what is already a small playing pool (relative to other countries). Less time with players, less chance to work and develop them.

SA, by joining European competition, now have the cash to retain their young players. SA were losing large numbers abroad for a time for exactly the reason NZ are now.

I have always been a fan of a Giteau type law or limiting overseas selections to a set number, regardless of caps earned. I don't necessarily believe in opening up totally due to the reasons you have outlined.

What I find unbelievably stupid ATM is the refusal to pick players who have just returned to NZ. If you are playing in NZ you should be available for selection. Mounga is likely going to be our 10 at the next RWC if Razor is still in charge, but under the current restrictions he will only get selected on the EOYT next year, which gives him fuck all time to gel with the rest of the backline. It's a joke.

@PN said in Springboks vs Pumas I:

@stodders there are a number of players in tonight's team that were produced by European club rugby. ie Boan was 1 week away from being selected to play for Scotland before Rassie Yoinked him.

That is to say, why do players need to be developed in NZ specifically?

That is a different point. And a good one I will concede.

Springboks' rivals currently aren't the 2025 All Blacks, it's the All Blacks of 1966-69, 1987-89 and 2010-16 for the crown of The Greatest Team of All Time.

@akan004 said in Springboks vs Pumas I:

@stodders said in Springboks vs Pumas I:

@akan004 said in Springboks vs Pumas I:

@ExiledHalfback said in Springboks vs Pumas I:

NZRU need to get their head out of their arses. Overseas player selections hasn't damaged the Curry Cup as a competition.

We are a joke right now. Handicapping ourselves by not even allowing players who have returned to NZ to be picked - i.e Leicester. We simply aren't good enough to be this stupid. A pro game run by amateurs.

Who is playing overseas that the All Blacks would select?

NZ is fighting a losing battle given their geography and the strength of the Kiwi dollar to keep young talent in NZ. If NZ allow players to be selected from abroad, then it will gut what is already a small playing pool (relative to other countries). Less time with players, less chance to work and develop them.

SA, by joining European competition, now have the cash to retain their young players. SA were losing large numbers abroad for a time for exactly the reason NZ are now.

I have always been a fan of a Giteau type law or limiting overseas selections to a set number, regardless of caps earned. I don't necessarily believe in opening up totally due to the reasons you have outlined.

What I find unbelievably stupid ATM is the refusal to pick players who have just returned to NZ. If you are playing in NZ you should be available for selection. Mounga is likely going to be our 10 at the next RWC if Razor is still in charge, but under the current restrictions he will only get selected on the EOYT next year, which gives him fuck all time to gel with the rest of the backline. It's a joke.

Agreed.

Once players are back under contract and in NZ they should be eligible for selection.

@sparky said in Springboks vs Pumas I:

Springboks' rivals currently aren't the 2025 All Blacks, it's the All Blacks of 1966-69, 1987-89 and 2010-16 for the crown of The Greatest Team of All Time.

Cycles

@sparky said in Springboks vs Pumas I:

Springboks' rivals currently aren't the 2025 All Blacks, it's the All Blacks of 1966-69, 1987-89 and 2010-16 for the crown of The Greatest Team of All Time.

Funny stuff. You forgot about too unbiased referees

@stodders said in Springboks vs Pumas I:

@akan004 said in Springboks vs Pumas I:

@ExiledHalfback said in Springboks vs Pumas I:

NZRU need to get their head out of their arses. Overseas player selections hasn't damaged the Curry Cup as a competition.

We are a joke right now. Handicapping ourselves by not even allowing players who have returned to NZ to be picked - i.e Leicester. We simply aren't good enough to be this stupid. A pro game run by amateurs.

Who is playing overseas that the All Blacks would select?

NZ is fighting a losing battle given their geography and the strength of the Kiwi dollar to keep young talent in NZ. If NZ allow players to be selected from abroad, then it will gut what is already a small playing pool (relative to other countries). Less time with players, less chance to work and develop them.

SA, by joining European competition, now have the cash to retain their young players. SA were losing large numbers abroad for a time for exactly the reason NZ are now.

Theres certainly a lack of action from the NZRU to do anything. The team and coaches can only do so much but behind the scenes NZRU needs to do more to try and navigate us to success and give us the best chance.

Try something, anything.

Ask SARU if they'd be keen for a competition between the top 4 of the curry cup and the top 4 of the NPC

Attempt to introduce an NZ team into Europe, find a stadium and ask hat in hand if we can join one of the competitions up there.

@stodders said in Springboks vs Pumas I:

@akan004 said in Springboks vs Pumas I:

@ExiledHalfback said in Springboks vs Pumas I:

NZRU need to get their head out of their arses. Overseas player selections hasn't damaged the Curry Cup as a competition.

We are a joke right now. Handicapping ourselves by not even allowing players who have returned to NZ to be picked - i.e Leicester. We simply aren't good enough to be this stupid. A pro game run by amateurs.

Who is playing overseas that the All Blacks would select?

NZ is fighting a losing battle given their geography and the strength of the Kiwi dollar to keep young talent in NZ. If NZ allow players to be selected from abroad, then it will gut what is already a small playing pool (relative to other countries). Less time with players, less chance to work and develop them.

SA, by joining European competition, now have the cash to retain their young players. SA were losing large numbers abroad for a time for exactly the reason NZ are now.

Bro…..Richie Mounga, do you even watch Rugby ?

@MN5 said in Springboks vs Pumas I:

@stodders said in Springboks vs Pumas I:

@akan004 said in Springboks vs Pumas I:

@ExiledHalfback said in Springboks vs Pumas I:

NZRU need to get their head out of their arses. Overseas player selections hasn't damaged the Curry Cup as a competition.

We are a joke right now. Handicapping ourselves by not even allowing players who have returned to NZ to be picked - i.e Leicester. We simply aren't good enough to be this stupid. A pro game run by amateurs.

Who is playing overseas that the All Blacks would select?

NZ is fighting a losing battle given their geography and the strength of the Kiwi dollar to keep young talent in NZ. If NZ allow players to be selected from abroad, then it will gut what is already a small playing pool (relative to other countries). Less time with players, less chance to work and develop them.

SA, by joining European competition, now have the cash to retain their young players. SA were losing large numbers abroad for a time for exactly the reason NZ are now.

Bro…..Richie Mounga, do you even watch Rugby ?

Is that it? A 30+ year old player? I know you’re joking, but changing a domestic policy purely for the All Blacks level is short sighted.

As was mentioned above, NZRU should be scouring the globe for talent that left NZ early in their career but are still eligible to play for NZ. Tug on their patriotic spirit.

If NZ relaxes the overseas player rule, I do believe it will sound the death knell of domestic rugby at super level in NZ. However, if energy and investment is put back into the NPC, NZ will still have a breeding ground of talent for young players to evolve into and a healthy competition that experienced players can pass on their nous in. I think it may even get spectators back watching again in greater numbers.

Those players who show real talent may likely leave NZ for higher pay overseas, but they won’t be lost to NZ and to the All Blacks.

It is a balancing act. IMO, 5 NZ super sides just isn’t enough to unearth and develop the depth of talent NZ needs in the modern age. It is choking the talent pathway.

@akan004 said in Springboks vs Pumas I:

@stodders said in Springboks vs Pumas I:

@akan004 said in Springboks vs Pumas I:

@ExiledHalfback said in Springboks vs Pumas I:

NZRU need to get their head out of their arses. Overseas player selections hasn't damaged the Curry Cup as a competition.

We are a joke right now. Handicapping ourselves by not even allowing players who have returned to NZ to be picked - i.e Leicester. We simply aren't good enough to be this stupid. A pro game run by amateurs.

Who is playing overseas that the All Blacks would select?

NZ is fighting a losing battle given their geography and the strength of the Kiwi dollar to keep young talent in NZ. If NZ allow players to be selected from abroad, then it will gut what is already a small playing pool (relative to other countries). Less time with players, less chance to work and develop them.

SA, by joining European competition, now have the cash to retain their young players. SA were losing large numbers abroad for a time for exactly the reason NZ are now.

I have always been a fan of a Giteau type law or limiting overseas selections to a set number, regardless of caps earned. I don't necessarily believe in opening up totally due to the reasons you have outlined.

Yeah - it's worth at least thinking about.

I think the big problem with opening the doors carte blanche as SA has, is the impact on our competitions and hence revenues.

It's entirely impractical for us to join Euro club competitions, so most likely we'd just lose all our stars to Europe etc become the Brazil of rugby and be left with B grade domestic rugby (a bit like our domestic cricket).

We're in a somewhat tricky situation, but part of the problem is that this isn't a vintage crop of players right now - especially compared with SA. But, we still beat them a few weeks ago. We don't need to find many missing pieces to be very good.

@Victor-Meldrew said in Springboks vs Pumas I:

Camera has clearly gone offline. Either that or the producer is pissed as a newt.

It's fucking hard to watch. The are over a dozen static cameras they could have used instead of that one

Rassie success at WC tournaments is that the Springboks improve from start to finish. The TRC is no different and wTony Ball fit right into the gameplan of Stormers players like SMZ, Libbok and Willemse. As a supporter its at times frustrating when they get it wrong and should be a little more structured. However Rassie and Tony Brown manage this better and the proof is in the pudding. We saw our u20s perform like they should and as a bifg schoolboy supporter kwoning every 1 st team players from our main factory , WP rugby well I am sure it will be even better. We saw on friday a 19 year old making his URC debut at LH and look very good on that level. Olly Reid follow in the foorsteps of Kitshoff from PRG. The future look bright for SA rugby.

Finished the viewing - impressive by the Boks, doing the simple things well. Yeah there are some lucky bounces in there but a couple of times Kolbe got up uncontested which points to the big issue Argentina have: fitness.

They just can't stay in the fight long enough, and TBH could have lost in Sydney off the back of it. The reason they didn't is their plus side: grit. They know how to hang tough and putting 30 on the Boks points to the current Saffer issue: defence.

Scoring more points than your opposition is fine, but when they stop you doing that you're going to have issues. Yes they'd rotated a few players, which made their line a bit fractured later in the game, but their forward pack largely knows the drill and had most aspects under control.

Obviously they're rotating a lot of guys through in order to build depth, and while they're playing a bit more through the hands the game plan is still so obviously the rinse/repeat of the last cycle. Hey, if it works, why not?

@NTA Good summation as always Nick.

The Bok defence is a worry for me. Playing a more expansive game has resulted in the defence not being as structured and prepared as in the past. Maybe that is the price one has to pay. But, if the Boks can improve on this while still playing a more attacking game, then they will be in a good place.
If not, then you can see the sort of dismantling we suffered at the hands of the Wallabies at Ellis Park.

Credit to the Pumas. The scoreline looks nasty, but they actually were in it for a large chunk of the game.

@Billy-Webb I think it is the experience of the players being brought in and the cohesion as a unit. It can be improved and probably will be thru EOYT.

@Billy-Webb the Pumas had that Kolbey gift of a try. The Bok defense was very good against the All Blacks. No worry for myself. Our lineouts was much better, Etsebeth had for a change a good game.

I always thought the ball had to travel at least 5m from the tryline kick out. The ref made the game a lot stop start in that 1st half.

@OomPB said in Springboks vs Pumas I:

@Billy-Webb the Pumas had that Kolbey gift of a try. The Bok defense was very good against the All Blacks. No worry for myself. Our lineouts was much better, Etsebeth had for a change a good game.

It wasn’t really tested as much as people think given ABs either couldn’t catch or were kicking good ball away.

Sliding doors moment was the Kolbe intercept. Boks were under the pump at that point

@stodders I dont agree. The Boks actually dominate that first period.

@OomPB said in Springboks vs Pumas I:

@stodders I dont agree. The Boks actually dominate that first period.

At that specific moment, the ABs were in the midst of a purple patch. They had scored a try, had butchered an opportunity when DMac kicked and had a 3 on 1 when Kolbe made his intervention. Passes were sticking and the Bok defence was under the pump.

I wasn’t talking about the half as a whole, more that if Kolbe hadn’t intercepted, it would have been 14-0 with ABs ascendant. As was shown the previous week, the Boks didn’t handle the scoreboard pressure that well.

Huge difference between a Pollard/Dda/Kriel backline chasing down a score or a Wellington or Durbs backline.

I’m still not sold on Reinach/Manie/Willemse’s ability to embrace pressure (scoreboard or otherwise) but you don’t want to engage in a shootout with them. They can ball.

@Smuts Reinach frustrate me. When you have a 10 dominating as SMZ , you just give him possession as much and as quick as possible. (coming from a Stormers supporter). SMZ have been waiting patiently at the Stormers behind Libbok.

Me too Oom. Can’t wait for the Pead era to start.

@Smuts said in Springboks vs Pumas I:

Me too Oom. Can’t wait for the Pead era to start.

I thought Grant Williams was currently the best 9 in SA?

@stodders to be honest, I’m not sure who the coaches see as 1-5.

I’m in the minority (at least in my SA rugby chats), but I’d have Faf, daylight, Williams, Reinach and then a long way back van den Berg.

Faf is far from a perfect scrummie. But he’s the best ruck rat on earth for my money. A defensive menace who gets better as pressure increases and crucially makes everyone around him better too.

It’s probably too soon to tell if Williams has that killer instinct but I reckon we know Reinach doesn’t. Which is fine, so long as the coaches keep Reinach bracketed with a mongrel to deal with clusterfucks like Ellis Park, Eden Park or the RWC semi…

@Smuts said in Springboks vs Pumas I:

@stodders to be honest, I’m not sure who the coaches see as 1-5.

I’m in the minority (at least in my SA rugby chats), but I’d have Faf, daylight, Williams, Reinach and then a long way back van den Berg.

Faf is far from a perfect scrummie. But he’s the best ruck rat on earth for my money. A defensive menace who gets better as pressure increases and crucially makes everyone around him better too.

It’s probably too soon to tell if Williams has that killer instinct but I reckon we know Reinach doesn’t. Which is fine, so long as the coaches keep Reinach bracketed with a mongrel to deal with clusterfucks like Ellis Park, Eden Park or the RWC semi…

I hear you on Faf, but I’m not sure the coaches think he’s the 9 Tonyball needs.

I reckon he still has a chance of making the WC squad, if only to have on the bench with Pollard as the “reverse-choke squad”, tasked with coming on to wrestle back control of the game when Tonyball fails against a team that can catch and tackle near 90%, or the Boks run up against their 2027 Bryce Lawrence