Time to reset expectations boys, we are just an ordinary football side. We don't do anything well, our so-called stars and leaders are just complete non-entities. I submit for consideration that without Cam Roigard we would have lost at least one more test this year.

England were better than us at everything bar the set piece, which was our only shining light today. Their loose forwards bitched ours, their backs were far more threatening, Ford controlled the game beautifully.

What the fuck is our defence? We have no line speed, we don't hit with hard shoulders, and we lose our connections so very quickly. Appalling.

What was our phase plan? Ok hit the blind. But we pass to a guy who has retreated to get in position. And thus no momentum. Poor lakai tried his guts out but he's too small to be used like that. Slow ball to slow ball to slow ball to shit kick. Or wide cut out and hope our winger can run over 5 blokes.

If that performance isn't the end of beaudens career then we are not serious about winning. Absolutely dog shit in everything he did. And DMac wasn't much better, but at least he can find touch.

Savea and Parker were anonymous, absolutely bitched by Earl. Who exactly are our difference makers? God we're so mid.

I'm not even mad, I'm just... I don't know, underwhelmed

We're shit, we're going nowhere,

Congrats England. Outplayed us after the first 15-20 minutes. I was never confident going into this match, and I woke up this morning to see my Saffa mate was messaging me, he only does that when the ABs lose, so while I ignored the messages I was fully prepped for the loss.

Why do the ABs even bother to kick up and unders, we’re the worst team at contesting them.

How do you stuff up two penalty clearances BB? @booboo Are you claiming Roigard kicked one of them? I don’t want to do a rewatch, so hopefully someone else can confirm.

Does anyone else get annoyed that halfbacks drag a ball back through a ruck with their hands and it's seemingly fine?

Another week where Jordan’s basic passing skills are shown up. How is he so good at the rest of the game. Was he always sick when they did up and down the field passing drills at school?

The AB’s inability to bring down Lawerance in the first half directly led to the try in the second, which is not to absolve QT of a bloody poor defensive read. In fact our out wide defence from 13-15 looked shaky all night. LF was coming in during the first half like he was DWZ at the Warriors.

Funniest thing was Justin Marshall saying how a team of the ABs stature can recover a deficit in 5 minutes. Yeah, not this AB team Justin.

I think the biggest issues I have is with our passiveness in both attack and defence. In attack we just seem to form up to hit the defenders and set the ruck, we’re not looking to punch through. In defence we seem to wait for attackers to come to us and it means that they’re always going over the advantage line which opens up more space on the next attack.

I like Pollack’s energy. He was great during the haka. His energy is like Itoje except likeable.

And in yet another episode of World Rugby hates rugby. How do you give a yellow card for a 50/50 call nowhere near in the attacking zone. The issue with it is that so many other small incidents happen in the game that could draw penalties/cards and don’t. In this game alone players were playing the ball on the ground, tackling on the ground, not using the arms in tackles, where was the TMO then?

And no, Earl rightfully getting carded for pulling down a maul doesn’t have any relevance to the Taylor card.

Also, pointing out inconsistent and problematic card decisions is not bitterness. Commenting and criticising on all aspects of a match is the lifeblood of this forum and the majority of it is directed at our players and coaches - any poster who thinks otherwise is not paying attention. Suggesting we reserve our criticism of contentious reffing decisions because our team lost is fucking stupid.

@NTA said in England Vs All Blacks:

Also: if Codie Taylor deserves a yellow card there, you're going to empty the field pretty quickly...

If Codie walked, then Itoje has to go for playing Scooter in the air and slapping the ball out 8 years from their own line.

@KiwiMurph said in England Vs All Blacks:

@brodean said in England Vs All Blacks:

LF for me has been very much hit and miss. He does make things happen but he is also a very slopply player in defence, in his handling, and in his discipline. He's arguably the most inaccurate back in the squad. I think whether good outweighs the bad is up for debate.

Because of how Razor has picked the squad - the alternatives dont offer much. Reece, Rieko and ALB are all past it. Which begs the question why they are in the squad at all.

Aside from QT in one test no 13 has shown they're decisively a better option than Rieko. They're all supposed to be better attackers/passers yet none of them has proved that.

Agree on Reece and ALB though.

@mariner4life I've maintained for a while that NZ Rugby is about 10-15 years behind Australia in terms of systems failure.

It'll probably be accelerated by the nature of Super Rugby as the Australian teams get weaker.

@Nepia said in England Vs All Blacks:

Also, pointing out inconsistent and problematic card decisions is not bitterness. Commenting and criticising on all aspects of a match is the lifeblood of this forum and the majority of it is directed at our players and coaches - any poster who thinks otherwise is not paying attention. Suggesting we reserve our criticism of contentious reffing decisions because our team lost is fucking stupid.

I’m going to go out on a limb and assume this is aimed at me. If not, you can ignore the rest of this message. I didn’t say pointing out a yellow isn’t a yellow isn’t ok, i didn’t say you couldn’t criticise the decision. I didn’t even disagree that it wasn’t a yellow. I said it didn’t ruin (and would add, didn’t decide) the game.

@Jet said in England Vs All Blacks:

@NTA said in England Vs All Blacks:

Also: if Codie Taylor deserves a yellow card there, you're going to empty the field pretty quickly...

If Codie walked, then Itoje has to go for playing Scooter in the air and slapping the ball out 8 years from their own line.

Itoje deserved about 3 yellow cards if cynical offences are a straight yellow.

And about 5 for screaming like a bitch at lineout time.

Opposition teams should line someone adjacent to him at lineout and just scream at him. Fire with Fire

Keep in mind Codie got a yellow, for our first penalty in the game. Near the halfway line.

@Jet said in England Vs All Blacks:

Keep in mind Codie got a yellow, for our first penalty in the game. Near the halfway line.

Blatant red if you ask me

@Dodge said in England Vs All Blacks:

@Jet said in England Vs All Blacks:

Keep in mind Codie got a yellow, for our first penalty in the game. Near the halfway line.

Blatant red if you ask me

The foul play TMO says that will cost you a gold watch...

This is leadership.

@ACT-Crusader said in England Vs All Blacks:

@sparky said in England Vs All Blacks:

@Tim Nope. That was 2012.

View embedded content

Nooo that must be some AI. That says the ABs had Jane and Nonu, Conrad and McCaw, Mealamu and Whitelock. And this was Hansen basically photocopying Henry’s playbook. I thought they were ruthless and calm and well coached.

Tuilagi and Barrit ripped us a new one that night.

TBF that was a one off extremely bad performance that is still talked about today because of how inept we were (especially at defending the overstayer). Whereas today's performance is not even the worst of this season.

@Dodge said in England Vs All Blacks:

Knew the result, read the thread, then watched the game. Blimey. Never seen a more apathetic AB team. England dominated the entire game. Won nearly every contact, ABs constantly beaten in the tackle and at the breakdown. Wow. ABs don’t look fit enough - lazy off the ball, can’t remember ever saying that before.

12-0 down but still felt like we were the better side. Ben Earl was immense, Pepper was great. But it wasn’t about individuals, they won every aspect of the game, contact after contact.

As for England, they still don’t look great structure wise but bugger me they smashed the ABs all over the park.

Absolutely agree. England were on top, we had two good minutes, and then England got back on top. Easily the better side.
I really like Earl he's a ripper.

@Nepia said in England Vs All Blacks:

Aside from QT in one test no 13 has shown they're decisively a better option than Rieko.

Almost like they should have kept QT at 13.....

@KiwiMurph said in England Vs All Blacks:

@Nepia said in England Vs All Blacks:

Aside from QT in one test no 13 has shown they're decisively a better option than Rieko.

Almost like they should have kept QT at 13.....

He played well. LF is error prone. I want to see Cam, DMac, JB and QT as the spine of our backline.

@Dodge said in England Vs All Blacks:

@Nepia said in England Vs All Blacks:

Also, pointing out inconsistent and problematic card decisions is not bitterness. Commenting and criticising on all aspects of a match is the lifeblood of this forum and the majority of it is directed at our players and coaches - any poster who thinks otherwise is not paying attention. Suggesting we reserve our criticism of contentious reffing decisions because our team lost is fucking stupid.

I’m going to go out on a limb and assume this is aimed at me. If not, you can ignore the rest of this message. I didn’t say pointing out a yellow isn’t a yellow isn’t ok, i didn’t say you couldn’t criticise the decision. I didn’t even disagree that it wasn’t a yellow. I said it didn’t ruin (and would add, didn’t decide) the game.

If that's the case then you should have just said you disagreed with @No-Quarter's reading of the decision instead of adding in your final sentence.

@KiwiMurph said in England Vs All Blacks:

@Nepia said in England Vs All Blacks:

Aside from QT in one test no 13 has shown they're decisively a better option than Rieko.

Almost like they should have kept QT at 13.....

Except we don't have any other 12's at the moment. Usually injuries have worked out for Razor in improving the team, in this case it didn't as once JB was out we can only really move QT back.

@Nepia said in England Vs All Blacks:

@KiwiMurph said in England Vs All Blacks:

@Nepia said in England Vs All Blacks:

Aside from QT in one test no 13 has shown they're decisively a better option than Rieko.

Almost like they should have kept QT at 13.....

Except we don't have any other 12's at the moment. Usually injuries have worked out for Razor in improving the team, in this case it didn't as once JB was out we can only really move QT back.

Couldn't Lester play 12? And just truck it up?

@Dodge said in England Vs All Blacks:

@Nepia said in England Vs All Blacks:

Also, pointing out inconsistent and problematic card decisions is not bitterness. Commenting and criticising on all aspects of a match is the lifeblood of this forum and the majority of it is directed at our players and coaches - any poster who thinks otherwise is not paying attention. Suggesting we reserve our criticism of contentious reffing decisions because our team lost is fucking stupid.

I’m going to go out on a limb and assume this is aimed at me. If not, you can ignore the rest of this message. I didn’t say pointing out a yellow isn’t a yellow isn’t ok, i didn’t say you couldn’t criticise the decision. I didn’t even disagree that it wasn’t a yellow. I said it didn’t ruin (and would add, didn’t decide) the game.

I never said it decided the match, you keep trying to strawman me and bait me which is why I am struggling to engage with you on this. I said a simple mistake from the ref changed the course of the match, which makes for a shit product and for me, ruins it. We want the players to change the course of matches through pieces of brilliance etc, not mistakes from the ref.

In cricket, they use the technology to reduce the impact of umpiring mistakes. It's the exact opposite in rugby.

@canefan said in England Vs All Blacks:

@Nepia said in England Vs All Blacks:

@KiwiMurph said in England Vs All Blacks:

@Nepia said in England Vs All Blacks:

Aside from QT in one test no 13 has shown they're decisively a better option than Rieko.

Almost like they should have kept QT at 13.....

Except we don't have any other 12's at the moment. Usually injuries have worked out for Razor in improving the team, in this case it didn't as once JB was out we can only really move QT back.

Couldn't Lester play 12? And just truck it up?

Has he played much 12?