@MN5 said in England Vs All Blacks:

@Frank said in England Vs All Blacks:

@Canes4life said in England Vs All Blacks:

My Backline for England: 9. Roigard 10. DMac 11. LF 12. Tupaea 13. Proctor 14. Jordan 15. Love

Carter has been a bit average the last two tests so might be worthwhile giving him a spell. Beaudy to covere 10 and 15 from the bench where I think he's the most impactful these days.

Gotta get Proctor in somehow eh.

Yeah any excuse to shoehorn him in.

He'll get a run vs Wales if he's lucky. No chance in a huge game like this.

England's midfield is pretty strong - esp. Ollie Laurence. Can see a QT/Reiko midfield for experience or maybe QT/Big Lester with Reiko o the bench if it goes tits-up

@reprobate said in England Vs All Blacks:

@BerniesCorner said in England Vs All Blacks:

Where are all the doom mongers pre Scotland that insisted the heights of Savea, Lakai and Sititi was a major issue. The issues we had were all about lack of composure, handling errors and loss of focus.
Savea, Lakai and Sititi... will be fine against England. All three have X factor and we saw that on Saturday.

For me at least: I thought that it wouldn't matter vs Scotland, we had 2 big locks and Scotland didn't have big loosies. However, if we want to develop a settled trio to compete with South Africa, then we need at least one of our loosies to be a first rate lineout option to match PSDT - so we effectively wasted an opportunity to get to where we need to be.

I’ve got a feeling after exploring different options this year , they might return to tupou at 6 next year when he’s available.

@reprobate said in England Vs All Blacks:

@BerniesCorner said in England Vs All Blacks:

Where are all the doom mongers pre Scotland that insisted the heights of Savea, Lakai and Sititi was a major issue. The issues we had were all about lack of composure, handling errors and loss of focus.
Savea, Lakai and Sititi... will be fine against England. All three have X factor and we saw that on Saturday.

For me at least: I thought that it wouldn't matter vs Scotland, we had 2 big locks and Scotland didn't have big loosies. However, if we want to develop a settled trio to compete with South Africa, then we need at least one of our loosies to be a first rate lineout option to match PSDT - so we effectively wasted an opportunity to get to where we need to be.

Dempsey is big......well, he certainly plays big at any rate.

@reprobate I expect they possibly do watch everything, but maybe not start to finish as a fan might.

But out of sync, I dunno, I'm just speculating, especially when I the software I saw was about 7 or 8 years ago, expect t has evolved considerably since then.

@kiwiinmelb I don't mind Tupou at 6, given that Holland, Barrett, Tuipolotu, Lord, Darry is a pretty solid collection of locks.
But for me I think if you pick him there, and you pick Savea, then your other loose forward needs to be a Blackadder - simply to get the number of involvements ruck and tackle up to where they need to be.
And I don't think they'll do that, as EB and DP are both on the outer, so we're likely to be out of whack again.

@MN5 said in England Vs All Blacks:

@reprobate said in England Vs All Blacks:

@BerniesCorner said in England Vs All Blacks:

Where are all the doom mongers pre Scotland that insisted the heights of Savea, Lakai and Sititi was a major issue. The issues we had were all about lack of composure, handling errors and loss of focus.
Savea, Lakai and Sititi... will be fine against England. All three have X factor and we saw that on Saturday.

For me at least: I thought that it wouldn't matter vs Scotland, we had 2 big locks and Scotland didn't have big loosies. However, if we want to develop a settled trio to compete with South Africa, then we need at least one of our loosies to be a first rate lineout option to match PSDT - so we effectively wasted an opportunity to get to where we need to be.

Dempsey is big......well, he certainly plays big at any rate.

He plays big in tackles and carries, not really a lineout forward though.

@taniwharugby said in England Vs All Blacks:

@reprobate I expect they possibly do watch everything, but maybe not start to finish as a fan might.

But out of sync, I dunno, I'm just speculating, especially when I the software I saw was about 7 or 8 years ago, expect t has evolved considerably since then.

Yeah, I'm just thinking that any insights you're getting into what patterns a team runs, what lineout they call etc is influenced by things like player fatigue in the moment e.g. what has been happening in the game for the few minutes prior etc. Then there's the way teams react to events, e.g. cards etc

@reprobate said in England Vs All Blacks:

@taniwharugby said in England Vs All Blacks:

@ACT-Crusader plus the software they have access to enables them to watch every lineout if they choose, look for patterns, then watch every ruck, how they respond in what part of the field.

Watching games in thier entirety would be rare these days I expect.

I'd really hope that isn't the case. The game has ebb and flow and every contest and every individual action by an opponent takes part within a context that matters.

Yeah, to be honest, I find when I watch highlights (even those 20 minutes long ones) I don't get much out of it. In fact I'd go as far as saying I have to see the match 2-3 times before I feel like I really have a very solid understanding of how the game played out.

Id actually love to know how much rugby professional.coaches watch in general. I would think aside from their upcoming opponents it would behoove them to watch at least 3-4 other matches a week just to see how teams are playing and get an idea of maybe upcoming opponents a month ahead of time. By that I'm talking about head coach not just some underling who is tasked with editing clips and being the tech whiz.

@reprobate I mean coaches sit there often looking at thier laptops, I expect with live data that we dont have access to as well.

Too many locks, not enough big loosies

@Catogrande Freeman will be a loss if he’s unavailable. Would Cheesman start? Don’t think he’s in your top 2 locks.

Vaa'i was defensively poor at blindside. Both from a workrate point of view, positioning and accuracy. Also I dont think hes quick enough off the mark. That said I wouldn't be surprised if they went back to him

Even if Scooter is back to near full fitness, why would you start him? Holland, Darry and Lord haven't let anyone down and seem eager for work

@canefan of course they'll start him, probably with Holland and Lord dropping to bench.

@taniwharugby said in England Vs All Blacks:

@canefan of course they'll start him, probably with Holland and Lord dropping to bench.

Yup. Nothing like not being match fit, back from injury, and starting in our toughest game on tour. Oh and being a card magnet

@Catogrande 1973 as well - it really was a sequence!

I'd forgotten about 2002, which was the tour that Christian Cullen enjoyed so much. I think Ben Cohen gave us quite a lot of trouble in that game!

my memory is him rag dolling Blair in to touch like he was a child, and that snuffed out our final chance for an improbable win

@mariner4life said in England Vs All Blacks:

my memory is him rag dolling Blair in to touch like he was a child, and that snuffed out our final chance for an improbable win

Ben Blair. Ugh sigh

@mariner4life said in England Vs All Blacks:

my memory is him rag dolling Blair in to touch like he was a child, and that snuffed out our final chance for an improbable win

Kinghorn probably thought he was going to do that to McKenzie to be fair

Blair was running in quicksand that day. I think the best footy Blair played was after he left NZ. But I digress

The 02 and 03 losses were heartbreakers and looking back were against the best England side in our lifetimes!