@taniwharugby said in Wales v All Blacks:
@pakman it is a subtle change of mindset in how you look at something, because I agree with you in that it seems refs/TMO are looking at every situation as a way to issue a card, almost like they have KPIs around how many cards they issue
Why does this deserve card?
vs
How can I avoid issuing a card?@Crazy-Horse maybe issue more PTs for professional fouls inside the 22 and allow a tap restart?
Didn't read this when I posted the above. Kindof #booboo.
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in Wales v All Blacks:
@reprobate said in Wales v All Blacks:
There's three occasions for cards: dangerous play, cynical play, repeat offending.
I think maybe we should look at finding a way around the repeat infringing ones. If 3 points isn't enough reward, would 4 be? Or changing the kick off following a penalty (either who does it or where from), so that you get the ball back in better field position after kicking one?
Thugs and deliberate cheats still need to go I think: spirit of the game and all that.Similar to the basketball team foul threshold? Once a team reaches the penalty threshold for the half, penalties could increase to four points?
Interesting idea. I'm pretty sure the average number of penalties per game for different refs would be quite different - so with some refs it would be worthwhile, with others not. Which may be a problem, maybe not.
A penalty needs to be attractive enough vs a try for the attacking team to consider kicking it, and enough of a deterrent for the defending team to stop infringing. Removing the repeat infringements card would remove some of the 'keep playing for more penalties and a card' motivation, but the deterrent needs to be stronger.
I'm also sick of playing under 40m advantage until a try is scored. It makes heaps of amazing defensive plays worthless.
Just keep it to 3 points and a goal line drop out restart might work?
@reprobate said in Wales v All Blacks:
There's three occasions for cards: dangerous play, cynical play, repeat offending.
I think maybe we should look at finding a way around the repeat infringing ones. If 3 points isn't enough reward, would 4 be? Or changing the kick off following a penalty (either who does it or where from), so that you get the ball back in better field position after kicking one?
Thugs and deliberate cheats still need to go I think: spirit of the game and all that.
Thugs can be dealt with good old red cards. Deliberate cheats maybe look at variation of penalty try. So if in 22 automatic 3 and if within 5m automatic 5?
@reprobate Just brainstorming here but how about advancing the mark for the penalty 10 or 20 metres for repeat offending?
Or (this is very random) five minute power plays - the non-offending team receives more points for tries, drop goals and penalties within the time period, handling errors by the non-offending team result in a free kick to that team, rather than a scrum to the defending team, the non-offending team are allowed an extra stoppage for mauls, that sort of random stuff. I haven't thought that through at all but it popped into my head.
@ShaquilleOatmeal I like your thinking in some ways, but will admit ti not liking another system that will just cause arguments.
or, and i know it's a crazy idea but, how about when the ref says "i have repeatedly penalised you for laying in the ruck to slow the ball down, next time someone goes" the other team says okay you got me, and stops doing that? Wales were fucking lucky not to get one in the first half with their first warning. She then gave another warning in the 2nd half before old mate got sent.
I actually thought the high shot yellow was more dodgy as it was one of those ones where the head contact was the whiplash effect rather than shoulder to jaw. Not the tacklers fault, it's DMacs for selling his mate out.
@taniwharugby said in Wales v All Blacks:
@booboo maybe extend it to a tap restart, or allow them to kick for touch from the restart, meaning they are right back in the red zone on attack.
Yeah. What I meant. A PK on the half to restart. Gives the option of a tap, kick to touch, or shot at goal.
I'm averse to solutions which are more complex to administer and more subjective than the current state.
They won't bring back rucking so the problem obviously doesn't solve itself.
And you can't put in place a solution that removes the contest at rucks.
For me the simplest solution is to insist players from either side have to stay on their fucking feet.
Infringement which stops a try being scored = YC
If a try is scored = carry on, No YC
I hate it when there’s a Penalty Try and YC
@taniwharugby said in Wales v All Blacks:
@booboo currently, awarding a pen on halfway from the restart is in the ref's arsenal, but cant recall the last time I saw it.
Is it viewed any differently to a normal penalty?
I mean if you have a kicker able to knock it over, 10 points should be a bigger dis-incentive to infringe.
Penalty on halfway is, as far as I know, for illegality in the act of scoring, or thereafter. We're talking about strengthening the sanction for cynical professional foul.
Guarantee 3 points, 10min sin bin, and opportunity to kick to 22/kick at goal/tap and go/scrum should be quite the disincentive.
@MiketheSnow said in Wales v All Blacks:
Penalty Try and YC
Isn't that required if there's a PT.
(Ireland should have been down to 11.)
@booboo said in Wales v All Blacks:
@MiketheSnow said in Wales v All Blacks:
Penalty Try and YC
Isn't that required if there's a PT.
(Ireland should have been down to 11.)
Yeah
But doesn’t make sense
Ref has awarded 7 pts
That should be enough
@MiketheSnow well yeah but they've done that because a try probably would have been scored.
@antipodean said in Wales v All Blacks:
I'm averse to solutions which are more complex to administer and more subjective than the current state.
Yeah, keep it simple.
If the ref deems a defender to have deliberately infringed, just get him to stand out of play (side line, db line), and he come back on when possession changes (when the attacking makes a mistake, or scores).
Might even clean the rucks up a bit, if they know they can get outed quick and simple.
@booboo said in Wales v All Blacks:
Isn't that required if there's a PT.
I think it is at the refs discretion.
@MiketheSnow said in Wales v All Blacks:
I hate it when there’s a Penalty Try and YC
Mmm, that's like kicking someone when they are down.
A double whammy.
@mohikamo said in Wales v All Blacks:
@antipodean said in Wales v All Blacks:
I'm averse to solutions which are more complex to administer and more subjective than the current state.
Yeah, keep it simple.
If the ref deems a defender to have deliberately infringed, just get him to stand out of play (side line, db line), and he come back on when possession changes (when the attacking makes a mistake, or scores).
Might even clean the rucks up a bit, if they know they can get outed quick and simple.
And each penalty offense in the same section of play sees another guy on the sideline next to him.
@Bones said in Wales v All Blacks:
And each penalty offense in the same section of play sees another guy on the sideline next to him.
Yeah, simple, and quick.
Quick officiating, and be a quick end of the section.
@mohikamo said in Wales v All Blacks:
@booboo said in Wales v All Blacks:
Isn't that required if there's a PT.
I think it is at the refs discretion.
By the letter of the law it is required if the referee can identify the perpetrator. But it's one of those ones where despite it not being codified in law, the ref has a bit of leniency.
This is another of those rules that just seemed to have popped out of nowhere.
I do not recall any debate about making the change beforehand.
One season it wasn't there, the next it was.
I don't like the double whammy aspect at all.
I mean, they've just conceded 7 and you want to boot someone off; and try and get them to concede another 7.
Yeah, great, game contest over.
Just another dumb ass rugby rule.
@MiketheSnow said in Wales v All Blacks:
Infringement which stops a try being scored = YC
If a try is scored = carry on, No YC
I hate it when there’s a Penalty Try and YC
I think because a try is scored, someone should get off the hook.
If it's a YC, give the YC, doesn't matter if they score or not.
@Darren said in Wales v All Blacks:
@MiketheSnow said in Wales v All Blacks:
Infringement which stops a try being scored = YC
If a try is scored = carry on, No YC
I hate it when there’s a Penalty Try and YC
I think because a try is scored, someone should get off the hook.
If it's a YC, give the YC, doesn't matter if they score or not.
Do you mean shouldn't?
@Bones said in Wales v All Blacks:
@Darren said in Wales v All Blacks:
@MiketheSnow said in Wales v All Blacks:
Infringement which stops a try being scored = YC
If a try is scored = carry on, No YC
I hate it when there’s a Penalty Try and YC
I think because a try is scored, someone should get off the hook.
If it's a YC, give the YC, doesn't matter if they score or not.Do you mean shouldn't?
Oh yeah, too early and need some coffee
Watched a replay of the game from Sunday morning as i actually only saw the 2nd half
First thoughts was the performance of Holly Davidson i actually thought she was outstanding and her communication was first class
The TMO and the local production on the other hand the less said the better
Ruben Love in the main was very solid and did some very good things , the odd mistake but in the main very good and considering how much rugby hes played since the French series in July , it worked out to around 245 minutes rugby and good number of those minutes were across 3 games for Wellington in the Npc
I personally would like to see Love start in the 10 jersey for the Canes in 2026
I really liked how the loose trio operated as a combination knowing their specific roles , they were all able to operate by keeping to the game plan and shape and that gave Sititi opportunity to operate like a number 8 ,Parker and Du Plessis Kirifi just doing their core roles effectively
finally a game were the ABs discipline was on point
I’m certainly not saying these 3 should be the loose forward trio moving forward but just great to see players completing their roles with accuracy
Set pieces in the main were superb
Ratima is a great competitor but i dont see him in a match day 23 with young Pledger waiting in the wings , although it was great to see him and D Mac match up as a combo
I know theres been a bit of chat about Parker but even the great Jerome Kaino took around 4 years to finally nail down the 6 jersey
We tried Samipeni Finau in the 6 jersey and for me despite his size and supposed physicality we never saw it in the Black jersey
So for me i’m willing to persist with Parker especially given theres not a lot of big options out there , maybe Tupou Vai into 6 ..
Full credit to Wales , they had a few missing and the chaps that came in did very well , however the Boks will be a more ruthless beast
