@reprobate looking at his facial expression while his thumb was in the eye would seem he was very angry and intent on something....regardless of the level of punishment for Eben, watch WR fuck this one up.
The whole carding and judiciary process is a joke and needs an overhaul, including the TMO.
@reprobate said in Bokke vs Wales:
Ah, South Africans on the panel are there? Poor old Eben.
Actually, I don't believe so.
@W32 said in Bokke vs Wales:
@reprobate said in Bokke vs Wales:
Ah, South Africans on the panel are there? Poor old Eben.
Actually, I don't believe so.
Well that's good if so. Intent is a very hard thing to prove or disprove in this situation I would have thought - but really my opinion is as simple as: if you make the decision to attack someone's face, well, that's where their fucking eyes are - and that makes it deliberate.
I might be going against the grain here, but I'm glad the panel are taking their time and gathering all the available evidence and assessing it before announcing what the ban should be. Let's hope they are being thorough and fair in their police work.
@reprobate said in Bokke vs Wales:
@W32 said in Bokke vs Wales:
@reprobate said in Bokke vs Wales:
Ah, South Africans on the panel are there? Poor old Eben.
Actually, I don't believe so.
Well that's good if so. Intent is a very hard thing to prove or disprove in this situation I would have thought - but really my opinion is as simple as: if you make the decision to attack someone's face, well, that's where their fucking eyes are - and that makes it deliberate.
Not sure if that would make for a fair process though. Accidental contact with the eyes is different than deliberate obviously. This could be a career defining issue for him not to mention the money he will likely lose. I find it hard to believe that he went after his eyes.
@MiketheSnow said in Bokke vs Wales:
FFS
No. Fair treatment under the law. He will get a ban, so calm down.
@Toddy said in Bokke vs Wales:
Didn't Owen Franks get away with an eye gouge? Against the Wallabies??
Yep.
@W32 said in Bokke vs Wales:
@reprobate said in Bokke vs Wales:
@W32 said in Bokke vs Wales:
@reprobate said in Bokke vs Wales:
Ah, South Africans on the panel are there? Poor old Eben.
Actually, I don't believe so.
Well that's good if so. Intent is a very hard thing to prove or disprove in this situation I would have thought - but really my opinion is as simple as: if you make the decision to attack someone's face, well, that's where their fucking eyes are - and that makes it deliberate.
Not sure if that would make for a fair process though. Accidental contact with the eyes is different than deliberate obviously. This could be a career defining issue for him not to mention the money he will likely lose. I find it hard to believe that he went after his eyes.
My point is that if you can't judge intent accurately - which in most cases you can't - then you need to choose to sanction without regard for it - all deliberate or all accidental.
My preference would be to treat it all as deliberate, unless the player isn't in a position to see that it is a face they are targeting. As soon as it is a face and they know it, fuck 'em all off.
@reprobate said in Bokke vs Wales:
@W32 said in Bokke vs Wales:
@reprobate said in Bokke vs Wales:
@W32 said in Bokke vs Wales:
@reprobate said in Bokke vs Wales:
Ah, South Africans on the panel are there? Poor old Eben.
Actually, I don't believe so.
Well that's good if so. Intent is a very hard thing to prove or disprove in this situation I would have thought - but really my opinion is as simple as: if you make the decision to attack someone's face, well, that's where their fucking eyes are - and that makes it deliberate.
Not sure if that would make for a fair process though. Accidental contact with the eyes is different than deliberate obviously. This could be a career defining issue for him not to mention the money he will likely lose. I find it hard to believe that he went after his eyes.
My point is that if you can't judge intent accurately - which in most cases you can't - then you need to choose to sanction without regard for it - all deliberate or all accidental.
My preference would be to treat it all as deliberate, unless the player isn't in a position to see that it is a face they are targeting. As soon as it is a face and they know it, fuck 'em all off.
Except now you have to make a discernment on whether the player can see the other players face or not. Look, I wish it were as simple as you would like it to be, but it isn’t. These players earn a living playing the game. They deserve a fair “trial”
@reprobate said in Bokke vs Wales:
Ah, South Africans on the panel are there? Poor old Eben.
Isn't there a pretty strong rumour the one saying it unintentional is Welsh?
@taniwharugby said in Bokke vs Wales:
@reprobate looking at his facial expression while his thumb was in the eye would seem he was very angry and intent on something....regardless of the level of punishment for Eben, watch WR fuck this one up.
The whole carding and judiciary process is a joke and needs an overhaul, including the TMO.
How does it get overhauled? I not sure it's ideal, but have not a lot of ideas (that wouldn't get shot to pieces), so would love to hear ideas being discussed.
@W32 said in Bokke vs Wales:
@reprobate said in Bokke vs Wales:
@W32 said in Bokke vs Wales:
@reprobate said in Bokke vs Wales:
@W32 said in Bokke vs Wales:
@reprobate said in Bokke vs Wales:
Ah, South Africans on the panel are there? Poor old Eben.
Actually, I don't believe so.
Well that's good if so. Intent is a very hard thing to prove or disprove in this situation I would have thought - but really my opinion is as simple as: if you make the decision to attack someone's face, well, that's where their fucking eyes are - and that makes it deliberate.
Not sure if that would make for a fair process though. Accidental contact with the eyes is different than deliberate obviously. This could be a career defining issue for him not to mention the money he will likely lose. I find it hard to believe that he went after his eyes.
My point is that if you can't judge intent accurately - which in most cases you can't - then you need to choose to sanction without regard for it - all deliberate or all accidental.
My preference would be to treat it all as deliberate, unless the player isn't in a position to see that it is a face they are targeting. As soon as it is a face and they know it, fuck 'em all off.Except now you have to make a discernment on whether the player can see the other players face or not. Look, I wish it were as simple as you would like it to be, but it isn’t. These players earn a living playing the game. They deserve a fair “trial”
Line of sight is a shitload easier for an outside observer to judge than the evil in Eben's heart mate.
If it is known that the face is off limits, then what wouldn't be fair about it?
if you put your thumb in someone's eye and keep pushing then you're a fluffybunny. Trying to work out what he was thinking or went through his thick roided head before during and after is about as irrelevant as what colour his underpants were.
