@Chris-B. said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

@Grooter said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

@Chris-B. Chris you're a glass half full man I see but can you tell me why the Crusaders persist with the very average Dominic Gardiner whilst letting the promising Torian Barnes slip through their fingers?

No - I can't.

I've said in other seasons that my patience with Dom is wearing thin.

He has the size and attributes of a good 6, but he hasn't kicked on like I would've hoped.

Yeah, he's soft, and was one of the big problems in his only full campaign in 2024. You've described him well, has the build, but certainly doesn't use it. Like another Jimmy Tupou.

I would have thought that Kellow and Blackadder would make a better loose trio in this side.

@Dan54 said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

@Chris-B. said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

Actually. thought we were quite good for most of that game. Brumbies were just better - and we gave them too much possession and a couple of soft tries.

Wheels came off at the end chasing the game.

Mate genuinely thought the Crusaders lost game in first half, they looked nackered at oranges from all the defence. I question their choices with turnover ball and insistence of trying run ball out? Was a bloody good watch, even if Brumbies did win.

Yeah - it was an entertaining game.

Agree - the tackle count was massive in the first half - I think our tackles made percent was quite a bit higher than the Brumbies' in the first half, but that extra tackling workload will usually tell in the end.

Think the wind was a pretty decisive factor - and the Brumbies playing with if first might have meant they had more gas in the second half. That try they scored from the little lob kick into space was a killer.

Lineouts become a bit of a lottery in those conditions, because everyone knows you have to throw short.

@African-Monkey said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

@Chris-B. said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

@Grooter said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

@Chris-B. Chris you're a glass half full man I see but can you tell me why the Crusaders persist with the very average Dominic Gardiner whilst letting the promising Torian Barnes slip through their fingers?

No - I can't.

I've said in other seasons that my patience with Dom is wearing thin.

He has the size and attributes of a good 6, but he hasn't kicked on like I would've hoped.

Yeah, he's soft, and was one of the big problems in his only full campaign in 2024. You've described him well, has the build, but certainly doesn't use it. Like another Jimmy Tupou.

I would have thought that Kellow and Blackadder would make a better loose trio in this side.

CLW looks a bit undercookedat the start of the season, as well.

I'd eventually like to see 6. Blackadder; 7. Kellow; 8. Lio-Willie; 20. Grace - or something pretty close to it.

@Chris-B. The red card helped at Ellis Park. And the Chiefs completely botched that final in Hamilton a couple years ago.

I’m not saying the Crusaders won’t be there, I’m just saying they lose their big advantage, which is the cold, miserable conditions where they thrive. Under the roof will be a leveller for sure.

@Canes4life Well, that and that we've always got the ref in our pocket!

Without trying to be too abrasive - the first prerequisite to winning the final is to make the final. And to do that, you've got to win a lot of games away from home.

I think we've made 17 finals of the full Super comps - we've won 13 and lost 4 (all away from home).

By my quick count, we've won six at home and seven away - 1998, 1999, 2000, 2017, 2022, 2023, 2025.

Weather, refs, systems... I think we've quite often had some pretty good players and coaches and that's helped!

It's only one result. I wouldn't myself be singing "The Wicked Witch Is Dead" so soon.

@Landers92 said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

@Mattasaurus said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

@W32 said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

First super rugby game for me in a while. Yeah no

yup at 30 years, Super rugby is a poor shadow of what it once was..... SA leaving really was the final death blow for me

Weird comment. You’re here commenting every week on almost every game?

Weird?
Its just my opinion.
I watch a lot of rugby - I'm 50years old, I have literally been watching super rugby since its inception - and in my opinion it peaked early to mid 2000s .( in fairness I loved the 2015 season being a landers fan).
I believe Super Rugby has steadily declined in quality since the failed expansion which ultimately diluted the quality of many games -- see Rebels, Kings, Suns etc
The Saffas leaving just kicked it in the nuts.... I welcomed the intro of the Drua and Pasifika... but in my old man opinion the product just isn't as good as it used to be.

@Mattasaurus said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

@Landers92 said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

@Mattasaurus said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

@W32 said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

First super rugby game for me in a while. Yeah no

yup at 30 years, Super rugby is a poor shadow of what it once was..... SA leaving really was the final death blow for me

Weird comment. You’re here commenting every week on almost every game?

but in my old man opinion the product just isn't as good as it used to be.

I'm a few years younger than you, but yeah I agree. Super Rugby peaked about 20 years ago, then went into a sharp decline about ten years ago.

@Chris-B. said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

@Canes4life Well, that and that we've always got the ref in our pocket!

Without trying to be too abrasive - the first prerequisite to winning the final is to make the final. And to do that, you've got to win a lot of games away from home.

I think we've made 17 finals of the full Super comps - we've won 13 and lost 4 (all away from home).

By my quick count, we've won six at home and seven away - 1998, 1999, 2000, 2017, 2022, 2023, 2025.

Weather, refs, systems... I think we've quite often had some pretty good players and coaches and that's helped!

No doubt, some absolute champion players. I just know my Canes for example will prefer playing under a roof, versus out in the elements when it’s cold during the playoffs. They’ve shown against both the Crusaders and the Brums, they hate those conditions. Beating the Saders in a playoff, down in Chch will take some doing no matter where it’s held so I get what you’re saying,

@sparky said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

@Mattasaurus said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

@Landers92 said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

@Mattasaurus said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

@W32 said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

First super rugby game for me in a while. Yeah no

yup at 30 years, Super rugby is a poor shadow of what it once was..... SA leaving really was the final death blow for me

Weird comment. You’re here commenting every week on almost every game?

but in my old man opinion the product just isn't as good as it used to be.

I'm a few years younger than you, but yeah I agree. Super Rugby peaked about 20 years ago, then went into a sharp decline about ten years ago.

Yes Super definitely peaked in the early 2000s but I thoroughly enjoyed Super last year, and I think this year the games have been really competitive.

Super last year and this year is the best it’s been for about 10 years. Don’t think it’s all doom and gloom.

That game in Perth last night was absolute dross from a viewing perspective. Don’t do that again Super Rugby ffs.

@Canes4life said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

@sparky said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

@Mattasaurus said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

@Landers92 said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

@Mattasaurus said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

@W32 said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

First super rugby game for me in a while. Yeah no

yup at 30 years, Super rugby is a poor shadow of what it once was..... SA leaving really was the final death blow for me

Weird comment. You’re here commenting every week on almost every game?

but in my old man opinion the product just isn't as good as it used to be.

I'm a few years younger than you, but yeah I agree. Super Rugby peaked about 20 years ago, then went into a sharp decline about ten years ago.

Yes Super definitely peaked in the early 2000s but I thoroughly enjoyed Super last year, and I think this year the games have been really competitive.

Super last year and this year is the best it’s been for about 10 years. Don’t think it’s all doom and gloom.

That game in Perth last night was absolute dross from a viewing perspective. Don’t do that again Super Rugby ffs.

Not much they could do about the game yesterday when they're not allowed to use their usual ground due to other events (women's Asia cup) taking priority.

On this game, how good are these Brumbies outside backs! They still have Wright yo come back too. Muirhead was lethal from the back, and Pritchard looks a real find at centre.

@Mattasaurus said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

@Landers92 said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

@Mattasaurus said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

@W32 said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

First super rugby game for me in a while. Yeah no

yup at 30 years, Super rugby is a poor shadow of what it once was..... SA leaving really was the final death blow for me

Weird comment. You’re here commenting every week on almost every game?

Weird?
Its just my opinion.
I watch a lot of rugby - I'm 50years old, I have literally been watching super rugby since its inception - and in my opinion it peaked early to mid 2000s .( in fairness I loved the 2015 season being a landers fan).
I believe Super Rugby has steadily declined in quality since the failed expansion which ultimately diluted the quality of many games -- see Rebels, Kings, Suns etc
The Saffas leaving just kicked it in the nuts.... I welcomed the intro of the Drua and Pasifika... but in my old man opinion the product just isn't as good as it used to be.

I think the best iterations were Super 12 and Super 14.

Introducing more teams and a conference system were crap, IMO.

Losing the Jaapies was a bit of a disaster - but we're patching that with the island teams and the Australian teams getting better - hopefully not just us getting worse.

We need to engage Japan IMO. They have the population and wealth to support a healthy competition and we need to work out a way of distributing players that makes for a competitive competition.

@W32 said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

First super rugby game for me in a while. Yeah no

Really? Good game of code for me. As a "support whatever NZ team", on top of "I hate the Brumbies just a little less than the Waratahs" Super Rugby fan I really enjoyed the game.

Not sure what you're looking for in a game.

@W32 said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

@KiwiMurph said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

@W32 said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

First super rugby game for me in a while. Yeah no

What an odd comment

Not what it used to be. Pedestrian. Not a good advert for the game

Pedestrian? Really?

@W32 Be honest, you haven’t watched it since Habana went over in 07, have you?

At least we can definitively say that Uncle Sevu has played his last game in black. And maybe sooner than later, his last game in red and black too.

@Canes4life said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

@sparky said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

@Mattasaurus said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

@Landers92 said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

@Mattasaurus said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

@W32 said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

First super rugby game for me in a while. Yeah no

yup at 30 years, Super rugby is a poor shadow of what it once was..... SA leaving really was the final death blow for me

Weird comment. You’re here commenting every week on almost every game?

but in my old man opinion the product just isn't as good as it used to be.

I'm a few years younger than you, but yeah I agree. Super Rugby peaked about 20 years ago, then went into a sharp decline about ten years ago.

Yes Super definitely peaked in the early 2000s but I thoroughly enjoyed Super last year, and I think this year the games have been really competitive.

Super last year and this year is the best it’s been for about 10 years. Don’t think it’s all doom and gloom.

That game in Perth last night was absolute dross from a viewing perspective. Don’t do that again Super Rugby ffs.

Agreed.

I think Super rugby is enjoying a Renaissance.

And in reality a lot of the chat about it peaking back in the day is based on nostalgia. Plus it's just become fashionable to criticise the comp, for whatever reason.

@nonpartizan said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

@Canes4life said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

@sparky said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

@Mattasaurus said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

@Landers92 said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

@Mattasaurus said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

@W32 said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

First super rugby game for me in a while. Yeah no

yup at 30 years, Super rugby is a poor shadow of what it once was..... SA leaving really was the final death blow for me

Weird comment. You’re here commenting every week on almost every game?

but in my old man opinion the product just isn't as good as it used to be.

I'm a few years younger than you, but yeah I agree. Super Rugby peaked about 20 years ago, then went into a sharp decline about ten years ago.

Yes Super definitely peaked in the early 2000s but I thoroughly enjoyed Super last year, and I think this year the games have been really competitive.

Super last year and this year is the best it’s been for about 10 years. Don’t think it’s all doom and gloom.

That game in Perth last night was absolute dross from a viewing perspective. Don’t do that again Super Rugby ffs.

Agreed.

I think Super rugby is enjoying a Renaissance.

And in reality a lot of the chat about it peaking back in the day is based on nostalgia. Plus it's just become fashionable to criticise the comp, for whatever reason.

Yeah nah man, Super Rugby was peak when we'd all wake up as a nation at 3am to watch the Cats v Bulls at Ellis Park, man the comp was something else back then!

@booboo said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

@W32 said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

@KiwiMurph said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

@W32 said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

First super rugby game for me in a while. Yeah no

What an odd comment

Not what it used to be. Pedestrian. Not a good advert for the game

Pedestrian? Really?

That game was. Poor quality rugby. It opened up towards the end, but it was definitely not the standard I was expecting. I later watched highlights of the chiefs game from yesterday and that was more like what super rugby used to be.
But let’s face it, the crusaders are like the sharks were under Plumtree. Plenty of quality players but horrible to watch.

@game_film said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

@W32 Be honest, you haven’t watched it since Habana went over in 07, have you?

Eh? I don’t know what you’re talking about. Habana went over where?

@Frank said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

@KiwiMurph said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

@W32 said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

First super rugby game for me in a while. Yeah no

What an odd comment

He's always trolling.

Thin skinned much?

@W32 said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

@Frank said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

@KiwiMurph said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

@W32 said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

First super rugby game for me in a while. Yeah no

What an odd comment

He's always trolling.

Thin skinned much?

Chef's kiss response.

@Bones said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

@W32 said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

@Frank said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

@KiwiMurph said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

@W32 said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

First super rugby game for me in a while. Yeah no

What an odd comment

He's always trolling.

Thin skinned much?

Chef's kiss response.

Now, yes.

Super Rugby definitely declined when it expanded to 15 and then 18 teams, diluting the talent pool and introducing the conference system, which complicated the ladder and reduced playoff clarity. It’s hard to argue the competition improved as a result. The exit of the South African teams compounded the problem.

There have been strong seasons since, but they’ve felt isolated rather than sustained. Hopefully, the current upswing in quality can be maintained.

Shit performance by the Crusaders some stupid imo selecting going on, and the tactic of Kemera defending at 15 was shown up a few times when he missed one on one tackles.
We are being smashed at the breakdown which is why Kellow not starting is puzzling me.
Lilo-Willie,Blackadder at 6 and Kellow at 7 looks better balanced.
Gardiner even though he tries hard and throws his body around doesn't really work at the breakdown or when he rushes up on defence and misses.
Reece and Ennor look like they have already headed off shore we need to start LF at centre at let him find his feet.
Springer when fit on the wing better Kunawave but he is injured for a few more weeks.
Mathis on the Bench would also help our game he has been very good for the development side 30 min off the bench would not hurt his development.

Any chance we can keep this thread about the match?

Also, how hard was Valentini to tackle yesterday? He bumped off the first tackle on multiple occasions which put the Brumbies on the front foot, where guys like Muirhead had fun sniffing around the ruck. Even vets lile Caderyn Neville and Slipper were hard to stop. The Blues will have their hands full next week.

Still not really time to panic if you're a Crusaders fan either. There's a few teams still in pre season mode, the Crusaders being one of them.

@African-Monkey said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

Also, how hard was Valentini to tackle yesterday?

because he's fucking awesome.

Valetini, Cale and McReight is a hell of a Wallabies back row.

@mariner4life said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

@African-Monkey said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

Also, how hard was Valentini to tackle yesterday?

because he's fucking awesome.

and seems very consistent.

@mariner4life said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

@African-Monkey said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

Also, how hard was Valentini to tackle yesterday?

because he's fucking awesome.

Valetini, Cale and McReight is a hell of a Wallabies back row.

Would you pick any kiwis ahead?
Cale looks an incredible talent.

@gt12 said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

@mariner4life said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

@African-Monkey said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

Also, how hard was Valentini to tackle yesterday?

because he's fucking awesome.

Valetini, Cale and McReight is a hell of a Wallabies back row.

Would you pick any kiwis ahead?
Cale looks an incredible talent.

Is Wilson likely to be the Wallabies captain moving forward, because he's going to have to move over if they want to make room for Cale, he's way too good to leave out.

@Canes4life said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

@gt12 said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

@mariner4life said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

@African-Monkey said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

Also, how hard was Valentini to tackle yesterday?

because he's fucking awesome.

Valetini, Cale and McReight is a hell of a Wallabies back row.

Would you pick any kiwis ahead?
Cale looks an incredible talent.

Is Wilson likely to be the Wallabies captain moving forward, because he's going to have to move over if they want to make room for Cale, he's way too good to leave out.

Wilson started making errors at the back end of the year and Aussie fans turned on him. Cale is a better player but Wilson loves the shit work.

@gt12 said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

@mariner4life said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

@African-Monkey said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

Also, how hard was Valentini to tackle yesterday?

because he's fucking awesome.

Valetini, Cale and McReight is a hell of a Wallabies back row.

Would you pick any kiwis ahead?
Cale looks an incredible talent.

no

@mariner4life said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

@gt12 said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

@mariner4life said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

@African-Monkey said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

Also, how hard was Valentini to tackle yesterday?

because he's fucking awesome.

Valetini, Cale and McReight is a hell of a Wallabies back row.

Would you pick any kiwis ahead?
Cale looks an incredible talent.

no

Agreed. I can't justify one either, based on form and talent.

@mariner4life said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

@Canes4life said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

@gt12 said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

@mariner4life said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

@African-Monkey said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

Also, how hard was Valentini to tackle yesterday?

because he's fucking awesome.

Valetini, Cale and McReight is a hell of a Wallabies back row.

Would you pick any kiwis ahead?
Cale looks an incredible talent.

Is Wilson likely to be the Wallabies captain moving forward, because he's going to have to move over if they want to make room for Cale, he's way too good to leave out.

Wilson started making errors at the back end of the year and Aussie fans turned on him. Cale is a better player but Wilson loves the shit work.

I really like the way Wilson captains the Wallabies, he's not afraid to chance his arm and is definitely that all in for the cause sort of player.

In saying that, his ceiling is nowhere near as high as Cale's, who's arguably one of the most athletically gifted players in the game right now. Looking forward to seeing what he can do at the next level.

More good players than starting spots is when the Aussies might start getting very competitive.
Still not really got a 10 though.

@reprobate said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

More good players than starting spots is when the Aussies might start getting very competitive.
Still not really got a 10 though.

that's probably an issue that they have positional clumps but not the broad base yet. And yes the 10 problem is bad.

Cale looks brilliant on hard grounds in summer.

The question will be whether he can keep the impact going.

Is Cale the Aussie that played Npc for Auck few years back?

@kidcalder said in Crusaders v Brumbies:

Is Cale the Aussie that played Npc for Auck few years back?

I think you are thinking of Jackson Pugh who wasnt even up to NPC level.