@Dan54 said in Crusaders v Chiefs:
Though I can't see him ever starting a test there
I can. Our 7 depth is a paddling pool
Crusaders
Match thread
Chiefs
@KiwiMurph with him playing well there, I think it has helped a couple of others step up their game as well.
Not sure what the answer is long term but they’ll keep riding the wave whilst they can I guess
@Yeetyaah said in Crusaders v Chiefs:
The fall off of Ratima needs to be studied
Agreed. No excuses when you’re behind a forward pack like that either. Think he needs regular starts, perhaps all these bench cameos are messing with him a bit and can’t get into a rhythm.
@Landers92 said in Crusaders v Chiefs:
@Yeetyaah said in Crusaders v Chiefs:
The fall off of Ratima needs to be studied
Agreed. No excuses when you’re behind a forward pack like that either. Think he needs regular starts, perhaps all these bench cameos are messing with him a bit and can’t get into a rhythm.
He's just not as good as Roe at the moment. Coach has no choice.
@KiwiMurph said in Crusaders v Chiefs:
Real credit for Crusaders coaching shifting Leicester to 7/hybrid
For me he's beginning to make a case of being picked as a specialist 7.
@ACT-Crusader said in Crusaders v Chiefs:
@Tim said in Crusaders v Chiefs:
Can't see Parker playing test rugby again.
Looked to be running in quicksand and missed his defensive assignment on several occasions.
Reuben Thorne lite
@ACT-Crusader said in Crusaders v Chiefs:
@Tim said in Crusaders v Chiefs:
Can't see Parker playing test rugby again.
Looked to be running in quicksand and missed his defensive assignment on several occasions.
Reminds me of Jono Gibbes
@Landers92 said in Crusaders v Chiefs:
@Yeetyaah said in Crusaders v Chiefs:
The fall off of Ratima needs to be studied
Agreed. No excuses when you’re behind a forward pack like that either. Think he needs regular starts, perhaps all these bench cameos are messing with him a bit and can’t get into a rhythm.
His form has been on the slide for 2 years
@Frank said in Crusaders v Chiefs:
@ACT-Crusader said in Crusaders v Chiefs:
@Tim said in Crusaders v Chiefs:
Can't see Parker playing test rugby again.
Looked to be running in quicksand and missed his defensive assignment on several occasions.
Reuben Thorne lite
That’s Reuben “Bledisloe Cup winning captain after 5 long years of the Aussies having it” Thorne.
At least Thorne hit a ruck or was in the vicinity!
@Canerbry said in Crusaders v Chiefs:
Death, taxes, and @Nepia whinging if the commentators suggest any Crusader is playing well.
Awesome win, class players dug hard, the Pavlova is a bit of a cauldron.
Death, taxes, and @canerbry riding in on his stead to defend anything tangentially Cantab related.
Others played well, not just those two particular Crusaders and the one particular Chief.
@brodean said in Crusaders v Chiefs:
@KiwiMurph said in Crusaders v Chiefs:
Real credit for Crusaders coaching shifting Leicester to 7/hybrid
For me he's beginning to make a case of being picked as a specialist 7.
He must be getting close to it. If the Saders make a run and win this thing and he continues to play the way he's playing? For mine he's a definite in the game day 23, most likely on he bench for a 6-2 split.
Well done Crusaders, you just can't count out the best Super franchise of all-time even when they're not at their best.
Say what you what about Leicesters positional change, but he is not invisible is he?
Making an impact.
@KiwiMurph said in Crusaders v Chiefs:
@Dan54 said in Crusaders v Chiefs:
Though I can't see him ever starting a test there
I can. Our 7 depth is a paddling pool
Paps going but Savea Lakai maybe Casey or old school Jacobson or Blackadder (
) then of course Leicester.
I may have missed one or two..
Great game of rugby - the best in recent memory.
Chiefs' kicking game let them down hugely. Looked the much better team when territory was on their side. A few blunders off the boot from Hutchinson, Jacomb and Roe towards the end killed their chances.
Sliced clearance aside, another strong performance from Hutchinson. Not sure he'll make that first All Blacks squad of the year (though Tangitau's injury could open the door) but would like to see him go to Africa.
@nostrildamus said in Crusaders v Chiefs:
@KiwiMurph said in Crusaders v Chiefs:
@Dan54 said in Crusaders v Chiefs:
Though I can't see him ever starting a test there
I can. Our 7 depth is a paddling pool
Paps going but Savea Lakai maybe Casey or old school Jacobson or Blackadder (
I may have missed one or two..
You are proving my point
@KiwiMurph said in Crusaders v Chiefs:
Paps going but Savea Lakai maybe Casey or old school Jacobson or Blackadder (
I may have missed one or two..You are proving my point
I think if Paps was staying and Savea was back to pre-exhausted form it would not look too bad.
I admit I missed Kirifi but I don't really see him as having enough size for tough test rugby. Good super player that he is. Although Lakai and Casey might not be much bigger (how big is Casey?) they look to have more impact at test level to my eyes/
@TheMojoman agreed I have him in jersey 23 covering wing, centre and 7. I would bring him on where we need him for impact perhaps against the Boks at 7 and move Savea to 8 for the last 25mins. If we lack punch in midfield then he could come in there to provide a point of difference too.
Also kudos to LF, his ball security was absolutely atrocious and he appears to have turned that around completely.
Ok, I admit I not on the LF train at 7. he great in a highlight package, but I still not convinced he prepared to get off ground or turn in defence quick enough for me. Maybe I expect too much from loosies in work rate etc.
Best loosie on field last night with daylight behind was Sititi though, geez he was immense. Though I do say Blackadder was pretty industrious, and none played poorly.
@Mr-Fish said in Crusaders v Chiefs:
Great game of rugby - the best in recent memory.
Chiefs' kicking game let them down hugely. Looked the much better team when territory was on their side. A few blunders off the boot from Hutchinson, Jacomb and Roe towards the end killed their chances.
Sliced clearance aside, another strong performance from Hutchinson. Not sure he'll make that first All Blacks squad of the year (though Tangitau's injury could open the door) but would like to see him go to Africa.
Though I suspect they will bring Hutchinson through the ABXV program, rather than straight in. he's only had a couple of games at super level, and I be very surprised (regardless what other's think) that they will pick a player without a decent body of work behind them. Looks like he got the makings of a good un though.
@Dan54 said in Crusaders v Chiefs:
@Mr-Fish said in Crusaders v Chiefs:
Great game of rugby - the best in recent memory.
Chiefs' kicking game let them down hugely. Looked the much better team when territory was on their side. A few blunders off the boot from Hutchinson, Jacomb and Roe towards the end killed their chances.
Sliced clearance aside, another strong performance from Hutchinson. Not sure he'll make that first All Blacks squad of the year (though Tangitau's injury could open the door) but would like to see him go to Africa.
Though I suspect they will bring Hutchinson through the ABXV program, rather than straight in. he's only had a couple of games at super level, and I be very surprised (regardless what other's think) that they will pick a player without a decent body of work behind them. Looks like he got the makings of a good un though.
Hard to say, given it's new selectors. But outside back is one of the few positions where you can bring someone in despite minimal experience at Super Rugby level, so I think there probably still is a chance, especially for the tour to South Africa.
Think the ABs XV will be playing two or three fixtures in November, including a rematch with England A.
@cgrant said in Crusaders v Chiefs:
The Saders were better when Preston came in. Hotham has some wheels but his passing is too slow. This is a work on for him.
Agree Preston appeals to me as the backup to Cam Roigard when he picks up his inevitable season ending injury.
@nostrildamus said in Crusaders v Chiefs:
@KiwiMurph said in Crusaders v Chiefs:
Paps going but Savea Lakai maybe Casey or old school Jacobson or Blackadder (
I may have missed one or two..You are proving my point
I think if Paps was staying and Savea was back to pre-exhausted form it would not look too bad.
I admit I missed Kirifi but I don't really see him as having enough size for tough test rugby. Good super player that he is. Although Lakai and Casey might not be much bigger (how big is Casey?) they look to have more impact at test level to my eyes/
Maybe they need to convert Christian Lio Willie to 7. He is far and away the hardest working loose forward in NZ at the moment and pretty sure everyone would pick him at 8 if he was bigger.
I just hope they don't organise the whole loosies group around a bench player or someone who doesn't quite fit one position.
@Dan54 said in Crusaders v Chiefs:
Ok, I admit I not on the LF train at 7. he great in a highlight package, but I still not convinced he prepared to get off ground or turn in defence quick enough for me. Maybe I expect too much from loosies in work rate etc.
Best loosie on field last night with daylight behind was Sititi though, geez he was immense. Though I do say Blackadder was pretty industrious, and none played poorly.
I don't think you're watching properly Dan. LF's workrate has been incredible. He is just everywhere right up until the last minute when he kicks the ball into touch. He's a player that I've been highly critical of in the past due to inaccuracy but he seems to have put that away.
Sititi wasn't even the best 8 on the field last night.
The last 15 minutes of that game he spent waiting for the ball out wide while LF and Lio Willie were focused around the breakdown and were heavily involved. This is where the Crusaders won the game by the workrate of these two players in the last 15 minutes. The Crusaders score all the points and the Chiefs score none. Those two guys were into everything for the Crusaders last 2 scores.
@Mr-Fish said in Crusaders v Chiefs:
Think the ABs XV will be playing two or three fixtures in November, including a rematch with England A.
Last I’d heard the ABs XV had been cut this year, that may have changed.
Fullback Will Jordan wasn’t on the park for the final 10 minutes of the comeback win, after potentially re-aggravating the calf injury that sidelined him for six weeks.
@brodean said in Crusaders v Chiefs:
@Dan54 said in Crusaders v Chiefs:
Ok, I admit I not on the LF train at 7. he great in a highlight package, but I still not convinced he prepared to get off ground or turn in defence quick enough for me. Maybe I expect too much from loosies in work rate etc.
Best loosie on field last night with daylight behind was Sititi though, geez he was immense. Though I do say Blackadder was pretty industrious, and none played poorly.I don't think you're watching properly Dan. LF's workrate has been incredible. He is just everywhere right up until the last minute when he kicks the ball into touch. He's a player that I've been highly critical of in the past due to inaccuracy but he seems to have put that away.
Sititi wasn't even the best 8 on the field last night.
The last 15 minutes of that game he spent waiting for the ball out wide while LF and Lio Willie were focused around the breakdown and were heavily involved. This is where the Crusaders won the game by the workrate of these two players in the last 15 minutes. The Crusaders score all the points and the Chiefs score none. Those two guys were into everything for the Crusaders last 2 scores.
Ok mate, I like players to be busy off ball , I don't think he turns and chases in defence etc, but I must admit I may be a little biased as I watched a few games when he played in France and thought he was lazy on defence then. As for Sititi, I have seen no stats , but noticed a few times him making tackles, back on feet instantly, and at least once he got turnover for being that quick.
I know probably just me, I tend to judge forward pretty a lot by how quick they get off ground. I not surprised that Sititi was looking a bit tired by last 15 minutes or so, he was into everything for rest of game.
But as I say, just me and what I look for, I not saying I right or you wrong, just we look for different things?
And I will add not knocking Lio-Willie who went well, or LF, but don't think LF is a test quality 7 , and worry with just playing there it's how he will be judged at test selection time, with not getting a chance to get a decent body of work as a winger.
@Dan54 said in Crusaders v Chiefs:
@brodean said in Crusaders v Chiefs:
@Dan54 said in Crusaders v Chiefs:
Ok, I admit I not on the LF train at 7. he great in a highlight package, but I still not convinced he prepared to get off ground or turn in defence quick enough for me. Maybe I expect too much from loosies in work rate etc.
Best loosie on field last night with daylight behind was Sititi though, geez he was immense. Though I do say Blackadder was pretty industrious, and none played poorly.I don't think you're watching properly Dan. LF's workrate has been incredible. He is just everywhere right up until the last minute when he kicks the ball into touch. He's a player that I've been highly critical of in the past due to inaccuracy but he seems to have put that away.
Sititi wasn't even the best 8 on the field last night.
The last 15 minutes of that game he spent waiting for the ball out wide while LF and Lio Willie were focused around the breakdown and were heavily involved. This is where the Crusaders won the game by the workrate of these two players in the last 15 minutes. The Crusaders score all the points and the Chiefs score none. Those two guys were into everything for the Crusaders last 2 scores.
Ok mate, I like players to be busy off ball , I don't think he turns and chases in defence etc, but I must admit I may be a little biased as I watched a few games when he played in France and thought he was lazy on defence then. As for Sititi, I have seen no stats , but noticed a few times him making tackles, back on feet instantly, and at least once he got turnover for being that quick.
I know probably just me, I tend to judge forward pretty a lot by how quick they get off ground. I not surprised that Sititi was looking a bit tired by last 15 minutes or so, he was into everything for rest of game.
But as I say, just me and what I look for, I not saying I right or you wrong, just we look for different things?
And I will add not knocking Lio-Willie who went well, or LF, but don't think LF is a test quality 7 , and worry with just playing there it's how he will be judged at test selection time, with not getting a chance to get a decent body of work as a winger.
It's easy to get off the ground fast when you're waiting out at centre to receive the ball for the last quarter. The only way LF can have that much involvement is by basically being on his feet the whole time.
@brodean said in Crusaders v Chiefs:
@Dan54 said in Crusaders v Chiefs:
It's easy to get off the ground fast when you're waiting out at centre to receive the ball for the last quarter. The only way LF can have that much involvement is by basically being on his feet the whole time.
Ok mate, you may not of seen Sititi tackle , where he was straight back on feet pretty early in game, it was right in the middle of play. I reckon if you watch game again and watch Sititi, you will find he was probably Chiefs best player.
I counted I think 2-3 penalties LF gave at ruck time, basically going for ball when tackled player was in way, just something he will pick up with experience at 7, and that is pretty hard to get that in quick time.
I just worried that LF will get real exposed at test level. David Havili had a top game last night, but he has some problems that get shown at next level.
Highlight package players perhaps?
@Dan54 said in Crusaders v Chiefs:
@brodean said in Crusaders v Chiefs:
@Dan54 said in Crusaders v Chiefs:
It's easy to get off the ground fast when you're waiting out at centre to receive the ball for the last quarter. The only way LF can have that much involvement is by basically being on his feet the whole time.
Ok mate, you may not of seen Sititi tackle , where he was straight back on feet pretty early in game, it was right in the middle of play. I reckon if you watch game again and watch Sititi, you will find he was probably Chiefs best player.
I counted I think 2-3 penalties LF gave at ruck time, basically going for ball when tackled player was in way, just something he will pick up with experience at 7, and that is pretty hard to get that in quick time.
I realise Sititi did a lot of work earlier in the game but the game was lost for the Chiefs in the last 15 minutes and he went missing when it counted.
Yes LF was penalised twice. Kirifi and Lakai have both been penalised twice in a single game this season also. That's just the way it goes for 7. LF is also in the top 5 players this season for turnovers won.
Anyway I wouldn't put him in the ABs as 7 at this stage, but I'm intrigued to see how he goes in the business end of the season. My point is that you're underestimating his workrate at the moment. He's involved in everything from play to play. The only way you can do that is if you get to your feet quickly and follow the ball.
Judge him for his recent games. Not what he was doing in France.
Some times a change in position can spark a players trajectory like it did for Nonu moving to 12.
@brodean said in Crusaders v Chiefs:
@Dan54 said in Crusaders v Chiefs:
@brodean said in Crusaders v Chiefs:
@Dan54 said in Crusaders v Chiefs:
It's easy to get off the ground fast when you're waiting out at centre to receive the ball for the last quarter. The only way LF can have that much involvement is by basically being on his feet the whole time.
Ok mate, you may not of seen Sititi tackle , where he was straight back on feet pretty early in game, it was right in the middle of play. I reckon if you watch game again and watch Sititi, you will find he was probably Chiefs best player.
I counted I think 2-3 penalties LF gave at ruck time, basically going for ball when tackled player was in way, just something he will pick up with experience at 7, and that is pretty hard to get that in quick time.I realise Sititi did a lot of work earlier in the game but the game was lost for the Chiefs in the last 15 minutes and he went missing when it counted.
Yes LF was penalised twice. Kirifi and Lakai have both been penalised twice in a single game this season also. That's just the way it goes for 7. LF is also in the top 5 players this season for turnovers won.
Anyway I wouldn't put him in the ABs as 7 at this stage, but I'm intrigued to see how he goes in the business end of the season. My point is that you're underestimating his workrate at the moment. He's involved in everything from play to play. The only way you can do that is if you get to your feet quickly and follow the ball.
Judge him for his recent games. Not what he was doing in France.
Some times a change in position can spark a players trajectory like it did for Nonu moving to 12.
Yep kind of have judged him on recent games, and his turning off in defence is what worries me, I noticed it against Blues where he just didn't turn when players went past him (a bit like Akira Ioane). The main thing is as I say, (and you agree) he not a test 7, but risking not getting picked as a winger etc as not getting a body of work there. He looks to be a bench player at moment, and needs to remember how to play in his specialist position I think. Anyway hopefully he sorts these things out, as he got the making of being good.