2025 All Blacks v France series

@brodean said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:

@Bones said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:

@brodean said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:

We turned the ball over 16 times to their 12

12 seems like a lot of times to turn over the ball for a team with fuck all possession and no BB/WJ.

27 points seems a lot of points for a team to concede when they have 62% possession.

That try Gulliard scored was soft as butter. They made a break and we can only defend 1 forward carry close to the line before he powers over.

Indeed.

Contrast that with the French defence - they did a pretty good job covering and scrambling after line breaks.

Tbh 31 points and 3 disallowed tries is a pretty decent attacking output - it's conceding 27 with France having less than 40% of the ball that was the problem.

@xman said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:

If Tangitau was fit he probably would be in the squad. He’s got x-factor with speed and a step. Only question is his ability under the high ball. Defensively he should be fine.

Well based on last night, there are questions under the high ball for all.the other backs, Inc Jordan, so it can't be a measure....

That said, you'd hope we can get much, much better in several aspects of the game.

The French kicking was excellent with great chases, conversely ours was largely aimless with inaccurate chases, we got very little out of our kicking, expecting this to be a major work on, get Dagg and Jane in.

@nonpartizan said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:

@brodean said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:

@Bones said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:

@brodean said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:

We turned the ball over 16 times to their 12

12 seems like a lot of times to turn over the ball for a team with fuck all possession and no BB/WJ.

27 points seems a lot of points for a team to concede when they have 62% possession.

That try Gulliard scored was soft as butter. They made a break and we can only defend 1 forward carry close to the line before he powers over.

Indeed.

Contrast that with the French defence - they did a pretty good job covering and scrambling after line breaks.

Tbh 31 points and 3 disallowed tries is a pretty decent attacking output - it's conceding 27 with France having less than 40% of the ball that was the problem.

Possession stats need to be put into context with territory though. We had a lot of ball it seems in our defensive half. Which comes back to our kicking game - not deep enough etc.

Just wondering if Jordie tweaked something in the warmups given he wasn’t kicking goals and we barely saw him do any field kicking ie stepping into first receiver to use his big boot. There was footage of him practicing goal kicking in the warmup.

@nonpartizan said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:

@brodean said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:

@Bones said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:

@brodean said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:

We turned the ball over 16 times to their 12

12 seems like a lot of times to turn over the ball for a team with fuck all possession and no BB/WJ.

27 points seems a lot of points for a team to concede when they have 62% possession.

That try Gulliard scored was soft as butter. They made a break and we can only defend 1 forward carry close to the line before he powers over.

Indeed.

Contrast that with the French defence - they did a pretty good job covering and scrambling after line breaks.

Tbh 31 points and 3 disallowed tries is a pretty decent attacking output - it's conceding 27 with France having less than 40% of the ball that was the problem.

"Disallowed tries" can't be counted as something good.

@ACT-Crusader said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:

@nonpartizan said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:

@brodean said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:

@Bones said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:

@brodean said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:

We turned the ball over 16 times to their 12

12 seems like a lot of times to turn over the ball for a team with fuck all possession and no BB/WJ.

27 points seems a lot of points for a team to concede when they have 62% possession.

That try Gulliard scored was soft as butter. They made a break and we can only defend 1 forward carry close to the line before he powers over.

Indeed.

Contrast that with the French defence - they did a pretty good job covering and scrambling after line breaks.

Tbh 31 points and 3 disallowed tries is a pretty decent attacking output - it's conceding 27 with France having less than 40% of the ball that was the problem.

Possession stats need to be put into context with territory though. We had a lot of ball it seems in our defensive half. Which comes back to our kicking game - not deep enough etc.

Just wondering if Jordie tweaked something in the warmups given he wasn’t kicking goals and we barely saw him do any field kicking ie stepping into first receiver to use his big boot. There was footage of him practicing goal kicking in the warmup.

Yeah, the kicking strategy seemed pretty hard to figure out.

At the start of the game Roigard was launching box kicks that weren't really being effectively contested - I think one bounced into a crowd of players and flew backwards. I'm not sure who they were targeted to or who was supposed to be contesting. It was pretty messy.

Was that proctors second test ?

If so , that’s two tests , 2 bad misses on the outside, , he needs to tidy that up or his chances of an international career could derail pretty quickly.

I remember a young nonu had similar issues at 13 but he had time on his side and moved to 12 anyway .

@kiwiinmelb said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:

Was that proctors second test ?

If so , that’s two tests , 2 bad misses on the outside, , he needs to tidy that up or his chances of an international career could derail pretty quickly.

I remember a young nonu had similar issues at 13 but he had time on his side and moved to 12 anyway .

Third, but yes, the 2nd test he played against Japan, the same thing happened as last night.

He had a shocker but I'm also happy to see him get another crack.

@sparky said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:

@Tim CLW did ok and, given where we're at, he deserves another outing.

But I am convinced he's going to be a significantly better Test 8 than Akira Ioane or Hoskins Sotutu? Not yet.

Yeah, this is the thing for me, I thought he had a really good test, but he's got a chance, based on form, that Hoskins didn't get. Also, he's just another not huge loosie.

Anyway, on the game itself, we're historically shit in our first test so I'm not going to get too down about it yet.

@African-Monkey said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:

@kiwiinmelb said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:

Was that proctors second test ?

If so , that’s two tests , 2 bad misses on the outside, , he needs to tidy that up or his chances of an international career could derail pretty quickly.

I remember a young nonu had similar issues at 13 but he had time on his side and moved to 12 anyway .

Third, but yes, the 2nd test he played against Japan, the same thing happened as last night.

He had a shocker but I'm also happy to see him get another crack.

Pretty sure that was his second test , first was against Fiji and he had a great game. If I remember right his brother had one test against Japan. I thought he had two bad mistakes , this test, not enough to write him off. I really hope Razor sticks with him for the whole series because there is still plenty of upside while I think Reiko and ALB are at their ceilings.

@DMX said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:

Pretty sure that was his second test , first was against Fiji and he had a great game. If I remember right his brother had one test against Japan.

Nope it was his 3rd start

Billy Proctor started vs Japan last year - a game in which Ruben Love came off the bench at the end to score 2 tries.

@KiwiMurph lots of pressure on Proctor to perform given the pressure that was heaped on Reiko I include myself in that group

This has probably been said in the match thread which I haven’t yet read but I’d like to post it in here anyway without sounding like too much of a homer.

For Fabian Holland to go 80 minutes on test debut in the tight 5 is an incredibly rare feat and one that deserves a lot of credit.

The fact the coaches have that trust in him already says a lot. Was also the leading tackler for the All Blacks with 17 if I remember correctly. Massive effort from the big man.

Main thing is he did his core roles well and shows he didn’t look out of place. Super stoked for the guy. Also glad I don’t look silly after pumping him up since he arrived at Otago.

Huge future ahead in the black jersey, locking depth is starting to look like a strength.

@Steven-Harris said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:

@KiwiMurph lots of pressure on Proctor to perform given the pressure that was heaped on Reiko I include myself in that group

Yup sure is. We all know that Rieko doesn't miss that tackle that led to the French 1st try. I do think that there is an upside to him though, but last night was a disaster for him.

Another one where I'm struggling to see how he fits into things is Kirifi. Like, I'm happy enough to see him get a crack, but he's a one trick pony, and if that trick isn't coming off, then I don't see the point in having him there, especially with Savea on at the same time. He looked like an under 85kg player out there amongst men. Sure, give him another crack, the series even, but I wasn't blown away from what I saw of him last night.

@Landers92 said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:

This has probably been said in the match thread which I haven’t yet read but I’d like to post it in here anyway without sounding like too much of a homer.

For Fabian Holland to go 80 minutes on test debut in the tight 5 is an incredibly rare feat and one that deserves a lot of credit.

The fact the coaches have that trust in him already says a lot. Was also the leading tackler for the All Blacks with 17 if I remember correctly. Massive effort from the big man.

Main thing is he did his core roles well and shows he didn’t look out of place. Super stoked for the guy. Also glad I don’t look silly after pumping him up since he arrived at Otago.

Huge future ahead in the black jersey, locking depth is starting to look like a strength.

Yup him and Lio-Willie had solid outings. Certainly the best out of the new brigade.

Another thing I like about Holland is he has good hands - comes in handy not only in the lineout and restart but in general play as well - it's an underrated aspect - whereas someone like Darry is a bit of a goober handling wise - these little things add up at the top level.

I really hate the caterpillar/snake rucks, them allowing the 9 to roll it back into position often using his hands before he kicks...9 is given far too much protection and time to fuck around with the ball in his hands at the base...

#wehatesitsomuch

@KiwiMurph said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:

@DMX said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:

Pretty sure that was his second test , first was against Fiji and he had a great game. If I remember right his brother had one test against Japan.

Nope it was his 3rd start

Billy Proctor started vs Japan last year - a game in which Ruben Love came off the bench at the end to score 2 tries.

Stand corrected,

@African-Monkey it was DK's debut, in the first match of the year, while the team is largely in disarray. I'd like to see guys that have performed for years get a better chance than 20-30 minutes and discarded because they were only decent and not amazing.

@Bones said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:

@African-Monkey it was DK's debut, in the first match of the year, while the team is largely in disarray. I'd like to see guys that have performed for years get a better chance than 20-30 minutes and discarded because they were only decent and not amazing.

Yup and I stated as much. I'm just saying that I didn't like what I saw, but I, like you, feel that that he deserves a fair crack before being discarded. He might be really good in the next test.

I've also said during the year that I don't wanna see another Shaun Stevenson type situation where guys perform for years and years for little reward, and Kirifi fits that description.

@African-Monkey said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:

@Landers92 said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:

This has probably been said in the match thread which I haven’t yet read but I’d like to post it in here anyway without sounding like too much of a homer.

For Fabian Holland to go 80 minutes on test debut in the tight 5 is an incredibly rare feat and one that deserves a lot of credit.

The fact the coaches have that trust in him already says a lot. Was also the leading tackler for the All Blacks with 17 if I remember correctly. Massive effort from the big man.

Main thing is he did his core roles well and shows he didn’t look out of place. Super stoked for the guy. Also glad I don’t look silly after pumping him up since he arrived at Otago.

Huge future ahead in the black jersey, locking depth is starting to look like a strength.

Yup him and Lio-Willie had solid outings. Certainly the best out of the new brigade.

For sure. Forgot to add Holland had the most line out wins with 6 as well