Springboks v Argentina Twickenham

@DaGrubster said in Springboks v Argentina Twickenham:

@MiketheSnow said in Springboks v Argentina Twickenham:

@DaGrubster said in Springboks v Argentina Twickenham:

Bit annoying the Argies gave up home advantage to play at Twickenham, which almost gave the boks another home match if you look at the make up of the crowd.

View embedded content

Oh i know the reasons. Still annoying that it gave the boks an easier match than flying to argentina in front of an Argentinean crowd.

I can see that they did it for player welfare as most argies will be heading back to Europe to their clubs.

Easier flight to London and then a short one as opposed to sa to BA, Ba to London.

Still, TRC has a huge asterisk for me due to the boks not having had to play their full compliment of away matches

There were probably more AB fans in Perth than Australian. Asterisk my ass.

@W32 are you disputing that teams have better home records than away?

@No-Quarter said in Springboks v Argentina Twickenham:

@W32 are you disputing that teams have better home records than away?

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make since the boks did not play this game at home.

@W32 are you being obtuse lol, Argentina have a much better record at home, ergo not having to play them in front of their home crowd benefits SA. Don't worry, I still think SA were the best team and deserved to win the RC, but history clearly shows that final game would have been tougher if played in Argentina.

@No-Quarter said in Springboks v Argentina Twickenham:

@W32 are you being obtuse lol, Argentina have a much better record at home, ergo not having to play them in front of their home crowd benefits SA. Don't worry, I still think SA were the best team and deserved to win the RC, but history clearly shows that final game would have been tougher if played in Argentina.

How do you figure the ABs winning there and then losing at home? The boks managed to beat them (Argentina) even though they played pretty badly. It used to be said on these forums that the boks would never win a WC away from home, and yet here we are with three more . Nowadays it’s more about which team shows up than home advantage. Especially true for this rugby championship

A quick glance shows:

Argentina vs SA in Argentina
Played 20, won 3, drawn 1, lost 16.

Argentina vs SA in SA
Played 20, won 1, lost 19

These stats will be the same for ALL teams, even more extreme when it comes to the Tier 1 nations who are very hard to beat at home, but even with Argentina only having 4 wins and a draw in their history against SA, 4 of those 5 matches were in Argentina.

This is such a silly argument, and I am quite taken aback that you think home ground advantage doesn't count for anything. It does, across all sports, not just rugby. Winning in the enemies back yard is what it's all about.

@No-Quarter said in Springboks v Argentina Twickenham:

A quick glance shows:

Argentina vs SA in Argentina
Played 20, won 3, drawn 1, lost 16.

Argentina vs SA in SA
Played 20, won 1, lost 19

These stats will be the same for ALL teams, even more extreme when it comes to the Tier 1 nations who are very hard to beat at home, but even with Argentina only having 4 wins and a draw in their history against SA, 4 of those 5 matches were in Argentina.

This is such a silly argument, and I am quite taken aback that you think home ground advantage doesn't count for anything. It does, across all sports, not just rugby. Winning in the enemies back yard is what it's all about.

It’s about as silly an argument as saying the boks won the RC with a caveat..

Well the caveat is that they didn't have to play two games in Argentina, they got to play one of those on neutral soil.

For the ABs upcoming northern tour, if they win the grand slam, they will have the same caveat - that they didn't have to play Ireland in Ireland which makes it a bit easier for them.

There is one team of which it doesn't matter whether they play at home or away.
And we know which one that is.

I didn't check; but I think they have a winning record against everyone away, except one team.

And they'd have a winning record against that particular team also, if they hadn't had to put up with dog cheat home referees for a century or so.

The Wellington spanking have more value then any TRC or WC title. Its up there.

@mohikamo said in Springboks v Argentina Twickenham:

There is one team of which it doesn't matter whether they play at home or away.
And we know which one that is.

I didn't check; but I think they have a winning record against everyone away, except one team.

And they'd have a winning record against that particular team also, if they hadn't had to put up with dog cheat home referees for a century or so.

It’s a tough world mate. I heard that nzedders are drinking tea out of glasses because all the cups are in South Africa… is that true?

@W32 said in Springboks v Argentina Twickenham:

@mohikamo said in Springboks v Argentina Twickenham:

There is one team of which it doesn't matter whether they play at home or away.
And we know which one that is.

I didn't check; but I think they have a winning record against everyone away, except one team.

And they'd have a winning record against that particular team also, if they hadn't had to put up with dog cheat home referees for a century or so.

It’s a tough world mate. I heard that nzedders are drinking tea out of glasses because all the cups are in South Africa… is that true?

Besides, most of those recent wins that the AB’s had over the bokke were due to their Australian cousins who supplied the refs for the tri nations tests in Australasia and South Africa. Not to mention the unfair travel schedule that had the South Africans living out of their suitcases for months

@OomPB said in Springboks v Argentina Twickenham:

The Wellington spanking have more value then any TRC or WC title. Its up there.

Don't indulge in too much alliteration!

@OomPB Agreed, but only because of all the asterisks next to our WCs, RCs, Qatar Airways Cups, series wins, hell any time we’ve beaten them.

Very grateful to the fern, ol mate Laurie etc for pulling the veil from our pig ignorant African eyes.

In fact Oom, I feel a little guilty because I still get a thrill thinking back to screaming myself hoarse in a tiny pub inmiddleofblerrienowherefontein as Jarpie manhandled Jonah over the touchline or how good it felt watching Fransie nail that 55 yarder on a cold night in Paris so the engraver could get to work and basically all of the the last seven years.

But I think it’s natural to sometimes forget that our victories are, by inviolable natural law, illegitimate. Of course, in each specific case we cannot know why at the time. Call it Schrödingers’ All Blacks - the magnitude and reasons for the forces of darkness’ loss cannot be measured at the same time.

It’s only much, much later when their coaches and players have had some time to come up with their best reasons that we can turn to the fern’s collective analysis, conclusions and insight and truly understand how hollow our triumphs and how foolish our deep satisfaction, joy and pride in the boks’ performance.

Indeed @smuts. That we should be so arrogant to think that there might be some good players, coaches and refs that have come out of South Africa.

Those kiwis are so fucking naïve!
How many World Championships have they fucked up by runnin out onto the field and thinking they just have to play some actual rugby.
You’d think they’d have learnt by now.
I mean those ferners are chattering about who the wingers should be FFS.

The saffers know they just need 8 forwards, plus 8 more on the bench to go out and bash the crap out of the fuckers.
None of that actual play rugby nonsense.
Less of that the better.
So long as Rassie doesn't have any thoughts of coming up with anything more sophisticated, the saffers will be A-OK.

@mohikamo said in Springboks v Argentina Twickenham:

Those kiwis are so fucking naïve!
How many World Championships have they fucked up by runnin out onto the field and thinking they just have to play some actual rugby.
You’d think they’d have learnt by now.
I mean those ferners are chattering about who the wingers should be FFS.

The saffers know they just need 8 forwards, plus 8 more on the bench to go out and bash the crap out of the fuckers.
None of that actual play rugby nonsense.
Less of that the better.
So long as Rassie doesn't have any thoughts of coming up with anything more sophisticated, the saffers will be A-OK.

What the saffers do is rugby.

@Smuts we are spoiled , Boet spoiled. I am old school and have big respect for the All Blacks. Beating them in NZ dont come often and is very special. Smashing them in NZ is a cherry.

@W32 said in Springboks v Argentina Twickenham:

Indeed @smuts. That we should be so arrogant to think that there might be some good players, coaches and refs that have come out of South Africa.

I know you fellas are enjoying having a wind up, and all power to you fellas!
Can I add something, Boks are great I admit, finally got to where they should be after apartheid finished, population of 60 mill and about 600,000 registered rugby players, it's good to see you not wasting all those recourses fellas.:beaming_face_with_smiling_eyes:

Hey all kiwis always know you had great teams, why we like playing you so much, even in the days when Danie Craven would present gold watches to ref after Boks win home tests.:face_with_tongue:

@Dan54 Blame it on the Boers.

@W32 said in Springboks v Argentina Twickenham:

What the saffers do is rugby.

You're overlooking their contributions to biochemistry (Nkosi , Jantjies , Ntlabakanye , François Pienaar: 'I started taking pills because everyone else did. Nobody batted an eyelid') and body armour (Matfield's hockey shin guard on the forearm)

Unfortunately doping is a widespread issue .
https://rugby365.com/countries/new-zealand/all-blacks-linked-to-escalating-doping-scandal/#:~:text=Try watching this video on,website in 2014 and 2015.

@W32 said in Springboks v Argentina Twickenham:

Unfortunately doping is a widespread issue .
https://rugby365.com/countries/new-zealand/all-blacks-linked-to-escalating-doping-scandal/#:~:text=Try watching this video on,website in 2014 and 2015.

Clickbait. No All Blacks were named. The Pope would not be impressed.

"All Blacks"

Unless it's a slap down hard on defence, should never be a YC, what ever the rule book says.

@booboo said in Springboks v Argentina Twickenham:

"All Blacks"

??????

Are we guna play the race card?

@W32 said in Springboks v Argentina Twickenham:

What the saffers do is rugby.

Nah nah nah
What the saffers do is Rassie rugby, that’s something different.
Rassie had a nightmare and woke in the middle of the night.
And he remembered the nightmare; and went FUCK YEAH, that’ll work.
And it does work.
But it’s not rugby, it’s Rassie’s f’n nightmare come to life!

@mohikamo he dream about Laurie Mains.

@mohikamo said in Springboks v Argentina Twickenham:

@W32 said in Springboks v Argentina Twickenham:

What the saffers do is rugby.

Nah nah nah
What the saffers do is Rassie rugby, that’s something different.
Rassie had a nightmare and woke in the middle of the night.
And he remembered the nightmare; and went FUCK YEAH, that’ll work.
And it does work.
But it’s not rugby, it’s Rassie’s f’n nightmare come to life!

Nah mate, the only people having nightmares are the kiwis who can’t believe what’s happened. It’s a dream for the saffers.
Rassie features in your nightmares I bet

@mohikamo <points to the scoreboard>

@Dan54 said in Springboks v Argentina Twickenham:

@W32 said in Springboks v Argentina Twickenham:

Indeed @smuts. That we should be so arrogant to think that there might be some good players, coaches and refs that have come out of South Africa.

I know you fellas are enjoying having a wind up, and all power to you fellas!
Can I add something, Boks are great I admit, finally got to where they should be after apartheid finished, population of 60 mill and about 600,000 registered rugby players, it's good to see you not wasting all those recourses fellas.:beaming_face_with_smiling_eyes:

Hey all kiwis always know you had great teams, why we like playing you so much, even in the days when Danie Craven would present gold watches to ref after Boks win home tests.:face_with_tongue:

The gold watch scandal wasn't Danie Craven, it was Louis Luyt. A former lock who had come to run SA rugby, and was instrumental in getting the 95 WC hosting for SA - he noted that South Africa would have won the first two rugby cups as well if they had been able to participate. Probably true, but the recently vanquished AB's who had just lost to the boks in the 95 final took what remained of their ball and went home.

The gold watch went to the ref of the SA France game. The ref who presided over the final got nothing.

@W32 said in Springboks v Argentina Twickenham:

@Dan54 said in Springboks v Argentina Twickenham:

@W32 said in Springboks v Argentina Twickenham:

Indeed @smuts. That we should be so arrogant to think that there might be some good players, coaches and refs that have come out of South Africa.

I know you fellas are enjoying having a wind up, and all power to you fellas!
Can I add something, Boks are great I admit, finally got to where they should be after apartheid finished, population of 60 mill and about 600,000 registered rugby players, it's good to see you not wasting all those recourses fellas.:beaming_face_with_smiling_eyes:

Hey all kiwis always know you had great teams, why we like playing you so much, even in the days when Danie Craven would present gold watches to ref after Boks win home tests.:face_with_tongue:

The gold watch scandal wasn't Danie Craven, it was Louis Luyt. A former lock who had come to run SA rugby, and was instrumental in getting the 95 WC hosting for SA - he noted that South Africa would have won the first two rugby cups as well if they had been able to participate. Probably true, but the recently vanquished AB's who had just lost to the boks in the 95 final took what remained of their ball and went home.

The gold watch went to the ref of the SA France game. The ref who presided over the final got nothing.

Since we're getting down and dirty on the history (I have no issues with the Boks being a class above at the moment, you should be rightfully cock-a-hoop) the ref of the quarter final getting the gold watch is even more of fuck you as that was the game that had actual reffing controversy. Also, Luyt was such a bore that even the English couldn't stomach him and walked out as well. And the vanquished ABs came back a year later and beat the Boks 3-1 on home soil and reversed the 80 year win/loss record, so swings and roundabouts.

And Luyt, and any saffer who makes the claim that you would have won the first two RWC's can go fuck themselves, probably win is just speculation (the 87 team are the most dominant RWC winners of al time, yet we're all expected to believe the Boks would come to NZ and win it), they didn't because the country was a racist shithole at the time.

@Nepia said in Springboks v Argentina Twickenham:

@W32 said in Springboks v Argentina Twickenham:

@Dan54 said in Springboks v Argentina Twickenham:

@W32 said in Springboks v Argentina Twickenham:

Indeed @smuts. That we should be so arrogant to think that there might be some good players, coaches and refs that have come out of South Africa.

I know you fellas are enjoying having a wind up, and all power to you fellas!
Can I add something, Boks are great I admit, finally got to where they should be after apartheid finished, population of 60 mill and about 600,000 registered rugby players, it's good to see you not wasting all those recourses fellas.:beaming_face_with_smiling_eyes:

Hey all kiwis always know you had great teams, why we like playing you so much, even in the days when Danie Craven would present gold watches to ref after Boks win home tests.:face_with_tongue:

The gold watch scandal wasn't Danie Craven, it was Louis Luyt. A former lock who had come to run SA rugby, and was instrumental in getting the 95 WC hosting for SA - he noted that South Africa would have won the first two rugby cups as well if they had been able to participate. Probably true, but the recently vanquished AB's who had just lost to the boks in the 95 final took what remained of their ball and went home.

The gold watch went to the ref of the SA France game. The ref who presided over the final got nothing.

Since we're getting down and dirty on the history (I have no issues with the Boks being a class above at the moment, you should be rightfully cock-a-hoop) the ref of the quarter final getting the gold watch is even more of fuck you as that was the game that had actual reffing controversy. Also, Luyt was such a bore that even the English couldn't stomach him and walked out as well. And the vanquished ABs came back a year later and beat the Boks 3-1 on home soil and reversed the 80 year win/loss record, so swings and roundabouts.

And Luyt, and any saffer who makes the claim that you would have won the first two RWC's can go fuck themselves, probably win is just speculation (the 87 team are the most dominant RWC winners of al time, yet we're all expected to believe the Boks would come to NZ and win it), they didn't because the country was a racist shithole at the time.

Indeed. What a load of shit to actually come out and say that. The Aussie team in 1991 were deserved winners too.

It sounds like virtually everyone who wasn't South African walked out on him.

Didn't Pine tree Meads make the ABs stay and listen to the whole speech though ? ( I vaguely remember some ABs book mentioning that )

Lluyt was a well known fluffybunny. Still, he was displaying what passed for razor sharp humour in the circles in which he moved with the watch thing and the “we’d’ve won the other two if me and my Broederbond buddies weren’t such racist fluffybunnies” bit.

I thought the ABs manager in 95 was Sir Lahore though. Didnt think Meads was involved?

Pine Tree was the Manager, Lochore came in as Campaign Manager I think I remember..

@W32 said in Springboks v Argentina Twickenham:

@Dan54 said in Springboks v Argentina Twickenham:

@W32 said in Springboks v Argentina Twickenham:

Indeed @smuts. That we should be so arrogant to think that there might be some good players, coaches and refs that have come out of South Africa.

I know you fellas are enjoying having a wind up, and all power to you fellas!
Can I add something, Boks are great I admit, finally got to where they should be after apartheid finished, population of 60 mill and about 600,000 registered rugby players, it's good to see you not wasting all those recourses fellas.:beaming_face_with_smiling_eyes:

Hey all kiwis always know you had great teams, why we like playing you so much, even in the days when Danie Craven would present gold watches to ref after Boks win home tests.:face_with_tongue:

The gold watch scandal wasn't Danie Craven, it was Louis Luyt. A former lock who had come to run SA rugby, and was instrumental in getting the 95 WC hosting for SA - he noted claimed that South Africa would have won the first two rugby cups as well if they had been able to participate.

fixed.

@Nepia I,ll go fuck myself to see that 1987 Boks in action in a WC tournament.

Gents:
We seem to have moved the thread conversation considerably away from the Boks v Pumas game that took place some time ago. I'm all for HEALTHY debate.
But this is not the thread for us to revisit pre and including 1995 RWC's and some of the nefarious characters involved back then.
By all means, continue that conversation in SPORTS TALK, but let's focus on relevant game commentary / thoughts / analysis in this thread please.