@Steven-Harris said in England Vs All Blacks:
Damage was done in the first half imo , we needed to put some distance between us and England
BB was just awful , should be his last ever test
It won't be his last under Razor though. Will probably be picked next week. Razor needs to go.
At least England deserved the win. They've got some good players and played decently well.
Taylor is the only player from the older generation that is worth his salt. BB, Savea, ALB, Scott Barrett all need to go. Jordie can stay for now.
It’s been 10 years of the same old shit. Zero composure
@frugby said in England Vs All Blacks:
What to make of that. Some will point to Robertson and his coaching staff, but player for player we just aren’t that good. Our basic skills were poor all night, and have been all year. You can’t really blame the coaches for that.
We bemoaned Rieko last year, but his replacement is no better. We bemoaned Beauden, but McKenzie is hardly any better. Without Roigard we are absolutely fucked at the moment.
Injuries have forced us to try different players - and we have - and lone behold they aren’t better than those in front of them.
I don’t think Razor should be sacked, perhaps one or two of his assistants should be, but if we turn up to South Africa with these same players, we will lose 4-0, and I think that would be terminal.
If you sack one or 2 of his assistants that will be 4 assistants gone in 2 years.
Deck Chairs titanic etc.
The buck stops with him. HE knew he was getting the job for ages in advance.
He had loads of time to prep.
Flush the Razor dunny and move on. He is a beaten docket.
@Bones said in England Vs All Blacks:
Well done England, you didn't do much but you didn't have to.
Credit to Steve Borthwick. Bringing back George Ford was a brave call, but it was rewarded today.
@jimmyb said in England Vs All Blacks:
Taylor is the only player from the older generation that is worth his salt. BB, Savea, ALB, Scott Barrett all need to go. Jordie can stay for now.
It’s been 10 years of the same old shit. Zero composure
Beauden Barrett was never composed, even at his peak. Once the juice in his legs went he should have been ushered off to Japan to earn yen for Hannah and co.
5 fucking years ago.
@Canes4life what tough calls??? He should just step down. Thats the only call to make. Worst AB side...the 3 worst performances I have ever seen. No passion...no heart...no gameplan.
@frugby said in England Vs All Blacks:
A new coach won’t fix our lack of basic skills.
The culture's not right. Where does the buck stop for that?
What I also don’t understand, is that the attacking patterns at the start of the season looked so slick. And then after 3-4 games, they stopped doing it.
England peaking between world cups. Meanwhile containers of dry powder has been discovered at the Port of Auckland.
@Young-Hamiltons said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Canes4life what tough calls??? He should just step down. Thats the only call to make. Worst AB side...the 3 worst performances I have ever seen. No passion...no heart...no gameplan.
When we used to be 12-0 down under McCaw id think we were still in it.
When we are ahead by 12 with this mob I think we will still lose.
@cgrant said in England Vs All Blacks:
Is it the weakest AB side of the professional era ? I am tending to think so.
We were worse in 1998.
@frugby said in England Vs All Blacks:
What to make of that. Some will point to Robertson and his coaching staff, but player for player we just aren’t that good. Our basic skills were poor all night, and have been all year. You can’t really blame the coaches for that.
We bemoaned Rieko last year, but his replacement is no better. We bemoaned Beauden, but McKenzie is hardly any better. Without Roigard we are absolutely fucked at the moment.
Injuries have forced us to try different players - and we have - and lone behold they aren’t better than those in front of them.
I don’t think Razor should be sacked, perhaps one or two of his assistants should be, but if we turn up to South Africa with these same players, we will lose 4-0, and I think that would be terminal.
Leicester and Tupaea are miles ahead of Rieko.
Dmac is miles ahead of Beauden, Dmac didn't get to play with Roigard like Beauden got to in the first half.
The step down from Roigard is massive. Without his boot we end up getting stuck in our 22.
@sparky said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Bones said in England Vs All Blacks:
Well done England, you didn't do much but you didn't have to.
Credit to Steve Borthwick. Bringing back George Ford was a brave call, but it was rewarded today.
Bonesey is sick.
@sparky said in England Vs All Blacks:
@cgrant said in England Vs All Blacks:
Is it the weakest AB side of the professional era ? I am tending to think so.
We were worse in 1998.
The fact it is a debate is the damning thing.
@Devon-Kiwi said in England Vs All Blacks:
Where the fuck do we go from here??
Give Dave Rennie a call.
@kpkanz said in England Vs All Blacks:
@frugby said in England Vs All Blacks:
What to make of that. Some will point to Robertson and his coaching staff, but player for player we just aren’t that good. Our basic skills were poor all night, and have been all year. You can’t really blame the coaches for that.
We bemoaned Rieko last year, but his replacement is no better. We bemoaned Beauden, but McKenzie is hardly any better. Without Roigard we are absolutely fucked at the moment.
Injuries have forced us to try different players - and we have - and lone behold they aren’t better than those in front of them.
I don’t think Razor should be sacked, perhaps one or two of his assistants should be, but if we turn up to South Africa with these same players, we will lose 4-0, and I think that would be terminal.
Leicester and Tupaea are miles ahead of Rieko.
Dmac is miles ahead of Beauden, Dmac didn't get to play with Roigard like Beauden got to in the first half.
The step down from Roigard is massive. Without his boot we end up getting stuck in our 22.
Expect Leicester and Tupaea can’t tackle
@Tim Nope. That was 2012.
@frugby said in England Vs All Blacks:
A new coach won’t fix our lack of basic skills.
"Our basic skills" translates to selecting a first five that couldn't win a Beauden Barrett lookalike contest and a captain with the resolve of a teaspoon of sugar. I could do better.
@kpkanz said in England Vs All Blacks:
We need a complete haul of the 'leadership' team.
Scott Barrett
Beauden Barrett
Jordie Barrett
Ardie Savea
Some of them should have been dropped or benched from time to time in advance of this just to show there are no sacred cows.
The Allblacks think they are the Chicago Bulls of the 90's, with their greatest rivals tour, and games in the US etc.
But dont deserve to dine at the top table at the moment.
@Bones said in England Vs All Blacks:
@frugby said in England Vs All Blacks:
A new coach won’t fix our lack of basic skills.
"Our basic skills" translates to selecting a first five that couldn't win a Beauden Barrett lookalike contest and a captain with the resolve of a teaspoon of sugar. I could do better.
Barrett took the line on once today from memory. He got smashed, then didn’t try again. Defending him is too easy
@Devon-Kiwi said in England Vs All Blacks:
Where the fuck do we go from here??
Go home and work damn hard on our key skills and game management.
We've gone backwards in so many areas, but the worse thing is we now simply give up at times. Wholesale change needed at the top from NZR down - some serious reviews of where the game is and what the issues are is needed
Scott Robertson is clearly out of his depth. Spent his 1st year learning the ropes and his second year producing some of the worst AB displays I've seen. May be great with Hamner 3rds and a crusaders side but found out at Test level
To all those people who told us all was good in NZ Rugby world and we only needed a new coach to fix everything, fuck off.
Everything that happened today was totally avoidable.
Lads sat on barstools could fix most of this.
@jimmyb said in England Vs All Blacks:
@kpkanz said in England Vs All Blacks:
@frugby said in England Vs All Blacks:
What to make of that. Some will point to Robertson and his coaching staff, but player for player we just aren’t that good. Our basic skills were poor all night, and have been all year. You can’t really blame the coaches for that.
We bemoaned Rieko last year, but his replacement is no better. We bemoaned Beauden, but McKenzie is hardly any better. Without Roigard we are absolutely fucked at the moment.
Injuries have forced us to try different players - and we have - and lone behold they aren’t better than those in front of them.
I don’t think Razor should be sacked, perhaps one or two of his assistants should be, but if we turn up to South Africa with these same players, we will lose 4-0, and I think that would be terminal.
Leicester and Tupaea are miles ahead of Rieko.
Dmac is miles ahead of Beauden, Dmac didn't get to play with Roigard like Beauden got to in the first half.
The step down from Roigard is massive. Without his boot we end up getting stuck in our 22.
Expect Leicester and Tupaea can’t tackle
I think Leicester is somewhat overrated, poor defender and poor skills.
@stodders said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Bones said in England Vs All Blacks:
@frugby said in England Vs All Blacks:
A new coach won’t fix our lack of basic skills.
"Our basic skills" translates to selecting a first five that couldn't win a Beauden Barrett lookalike contest and a captain with the resolve of a teaspoon of sugar. I could do better.
Barrett took the line on once today from memory. He got smashed, then didn’t try again. Defending him is too easy
I don't even give a fuck about that! Just his kicks for touch today would've seen us not even talked to by our coach in senior 3 twenty years ago, let alone running out for the second half! Just show some basic schoolboy level skills!
England conceded 12 penalties to 6 and yet won that comfortably.
We needed to do much more when England gave us the ball and needed to work much harder when we didn't have it.
Some huge tackling numbers by some of the England lads to be fair.
Sack 
🫣