England v All Blacks

Very poor choics in attack. It lacks a brain in the backline.

@Bovidae said in England Vs All Blacks:

@canefan said in England Vs All Blacks:

Watching the post match. I always found Goldie to be an AB fan bois, but both he and Mils are increasingly critical of this team

I've always seen Wilson as the only one prepared to criticise the ABs.

Yeah same, never got the hate for him. If anything, it always felt like he's always ready to rip into them before getting a message through his earpiece from the producers to tone it down and be more PC.

@sparky said in England Vs All Blacks:

I've heard that Henry Pollock and co. go without caffeine all week, then chew strong caffeine gum on the bench before coming on.

Giving how fizzing with energy they were yesterday, I wonder if that isn't a trick we should copy?

That ranks well below selecting and coaching competently. Let's worry about the basics first before going after the 0.5% improvements.

@pourfasse said in England Vs All Blacks:

Very poor choics in attack. It lacks a brain in the backline.

I know we were bad, but now we are making up words to describe how bad we were

@Tim said in England Vs All Blacks:

View embedded content

`Paywalled, my video recorder still doesn't work, and the All Blacks are shit.

None of this fucking happened when my generation was in charge!

What to say about that game? Were England that good? I don't think so really. We only had a simple game plan although we did execute that well. Ford grew into the game and put us in teh right place, took the points when they were available. All very simple. I'm always really chuffed when we beat NZ but in truth, I'm almost a bit flat after that game. NZ looked clueless and that's a rarity.

Good points for England:

Physicality in the contact area
Kicking game and importantly the chasing game.
Lawrence owning the 13 shirt now

Bad points:

Lineout shambles
Discipline
A simple game plan is simple to counter so we need to add more.

@Catogrande yeah that's essentially it, a two score win against the second best team in the world, without getting out of 2nd gear.

@Victor-Meldrew said in England Vs All Blacks:

@booboo said in England Vs All Blacks:

Is BB injured?

Sadly, no.

In fact, yes, which makes it worse.

@sparky said in England Vs All Blacks:

I've heard that Henry Pollock and co. go without caffeine all week, then chew strong caffeine gum on the bench before coming on.

Giving how fizzing with energy they were yesterday, I wonder if that isn't a trick we should copy?

I've heard Joe Parker....

...probably not....

@jimmyb said in England Vs All Blacks:

@Canes4life said in England Vs All Blacks:

@frugby said in England Vs All Blacks:

Billy Proctor ain’t the man I’m afraid

That was Tupaea’s man.

No it wasn’t. The overhead clearly showed it was Proctors and he reacted incredibly late. Hes done it plenty of times

If only they’d taken @bones advice and selected Reiko!

@pakman said in England Vs All Blacks:

@jimmyb said in England Vs All Blacks:

@Canes4life said in England Vs All Blacks:

@frugby said in England Vs All Blacks:

Billy Proctor ain’t the man I’m afraid

That was Tupaea’s man.

No it wasn’t. The overhead clearly showed it was Proctors and he reacted incredibly late. Hes done it plenty of times

If only that taken @bones advice and selected Reiko!

I'm not sure I can claim that one...

@akan004 said in England Vs All Blacks:

Even our scrum is under pressure. Ratima is as stupid as they come, clear it FFS.

I have severe doubts about Lord’s scrummaging. No point in tank with four cylinder engine.

@Catogrande said in England Vs All Blacks:

What to say about that game? Were England that good? I don't think so really. We only had a simple game plan although we did execute that well. Ford grew into the game and put us in teh right place, took the points when they were available. All very simple. I'm always really chuffed when we beat NZ but in truth, I'm almost a bit flat after that game. NZ looked clueless and that's a rarity.

Good points for England:

Physicality in the contact area
Kicking game and importantly the chasing game.
Lawrence owning the 13 shirt now

Bad points:

Lineout shambles
Discipline
A simple game plan is simple to counter so we need to add more.

Yep I feel the same. Still not sure we’re actually any good. Shame we’re not playing South Africa this autumn, would be an interesting level set, feels like they’re still some way above us.

Hope we dont rest on this performance and think the autumn is done. Argentina will be up for next week, we’d better be bang on it.

@ACT-Crusader said in England Vs All Blacks:

Lord played well.

But scrum toothless.

@Dodge

Agreed about the Argies being up for it. They will want to build on their huge win v Wales. I've got tickets for the game so we'd better bloody well be up for it.

There's a top down problem here.
I for one thought we had solved it post 2023. It's gonna be a rocky road.

Around 32:30 we nearly scored in the corner, then meekly allowed England to drive us off the ball. See if you can spot a loose forward in these pictures ... Savea stands way off the ruck and looks disinterested. Terrible openside. Absolutely shithouse selection. They never even looked interested in the follow-up ruck after LF was tackled.

In a strange way, Marcus Smith coming on so early really helped England. His double pivot with George Ford was extremely effective.

Steve Borthwick's men showed a lot of resolve coming back from 12-0 down yesterday. Lesser England sides have buckled in the past after seeing the All Blacks play ten minutes of dominant rugby.

I think this is the most complete England side since the 2003 one in terms of offering threat and balance across the park. If there's a genuine weak link it's Itoje's on-field leadership and in the second row without George Martin.

I suspect this England team will go on and achieve a Grand Slam of their own in the spring, although France in Paris might trip them up. It will be interesting to see how they go against a side playing well and with an intelligent First Five rather than the shambles they played against yesterday.

@Tim said in England Vs All Blacks:

Around 32:30 we nearly scored in the corner, then meekly allowed England to drive us off the ball. See if you can spot a loose forward in these pictures ... Savea stands way off the ruck and looks disinterested. Terrible openside. Absolutely shithouse selection. They never even looked interested in the follow-up ruck after LF was tackled.

View image

View image

View image

View image

View image

View image

The much maligned Sam Cane at his peak would have cleaned someone out there.

Every retard in New Zealand went on and on about how much better a number seven Savea was during super rugby. It was always obvious that he does not have the game for test rugby at open side. Papalii is vastly more suited to the role. Just an incredibly low IQ selection from a moron coach.

@Tim Dalton Papalii, if fit, is our player best suited to being a Test Open Side.

I'm happy with Ardie Savea and Peter Lakai as backup, although both play better at 8. Kirifi is too small to be effective against top test sides.

@Tim said in England Vs All Blacks:

Every retard in New Zealand went on and on about how much better a number seven Savea was during super rugby. It was always obvious that he does not have the game for test rugby at open side. Papalii is vastly more suited to the role. Just an incredibly low IQ selection from a moron coach.

Lets be honest too, he got away with blue murder at breakdown time during super rugby due to who he was. The home fixtures against the Highlanders and Blues being prime examples where he was getting rewarded at breakdown multiple times when he shouldn't have to the point where he was virtually coming in from the oppositions side of the ruck. It made for a feel good story at the time though i guess.

@African-Monkey Yep, absolutely. Was allowed side entry to rucks at will. Absolutely will get penalised for that in test rugby.

@Tim said in England Vs All Blacks:

@African-Monkey Yep, absolutely. Was allowed side entry to rucks at will. Absolutely will get penalised for that in test rugby.

And most sane people knew this would happen too.

@Tim said in England Vs All Blacks:

@African-Monkey Yep, absolutely. Was allowed side entry to rucks at will. Absolutely will get penalised for that in test rugby.

Savea will play the same way no matter what jersey is on his back.

He shoukd have stayed at 8 as we need perpetual motion in an openside. Not a player looking for his moments and watching rucks.

Beer suited to the bench now and get Paps or Lakai as our 7.

@DaGrubster said in England Vs All Blacks:

@Tim said in England Vs All Blacks:

@African-Monkey Yep, absolutely. Was allowed side entry to rucks at will. Absolutely will get penalised for that in test rugby.

Savea will play the same way no matter what jersey is on his back.

He shoukd have stayed at 8 as we need perpetual motion in an openside. Not a player looking for his moments and watching rucks.

Beer suited to the bench now and get Paps or Lakai as our 7.

He and BB are holding our team hostage right now

@African-Monkey Yeah. Been thinking about Cane. He always answered the bell.

@BerniesCorner said in England Vs All Blacks:

Lakai has been superb also

Rewatched the game - yes I know I’d usually rather poke my eyes out than rewatch an AB test loss - but wanted to see if my feeling of how we used Lakai or better yet how things just played out was correct.

We used him far too much. This is not a slight on Peter for his high work rate and usage, but he had a disproportionate number of carries because either he had got back into the line quicker or he was just there. It was unusual for how we have used other forward ball carriers throughout the year, even with the mountain of possession we had from England set piece losses and the ball we generated from the ruck.

I think it goes without saying that Lakai would’ve been far more effective if he did not have to shoulder so many carries.

@ACT-Crusader said in England Vs All Blacks:

@BerniesCorner said in England Vs All Blacks:

Lakai has been superb also

Rewatched the game - yes I know I’d usually rather poke my eyes out than rewatch an AB test loss - but wanted to see if my feeling of how we used Lakai or better yet how things just played out was correct.

We used him far too much. This is not a slight on Peter for his high work rate and usage, but he had a disproportionate number of carries because either he had got back into the line quicker or he was just there. It was unusual for how we have used other forward ball carriers throughout the year, even with the mountain of possession we had from England set piece losses and the ball we generated from the ruck.

I think it goes without saying that Lakai would’ve been far more effective if he did not have to shoulder so many carries.

Agreed. He is a powerful guy for his size but he is not a big guy.

Use his work rate and industry at 7

@DaGrubster I thought that Savea's best performance was against Argentina when he played 8. More balanced trio.

@Devon-Kiwi said in England Vs All Blacks:

The English are the worst team in World Rugby to lose to and we did it so well!

Wales says hold my beer

@BerniesCorner said in England Vs All Blacks:

What was the yellow for

All the explanations I saw were perfectly cogent in respect of a penalty, but no rationale at all put forward for a yellow card offence. Austin Healy stated that no clean line break so just penalty.

Inexperienced referee spoils game again, although most of home crowd lapped it up.

Meanwhile, multiple dummy runners before Underhill try were worthy of a TMO look for obstruction, but none forthcoming.

Was working all-day yesterday so didn't see this live.

But thankfully watched it at 1am this morning not knowing the result.

Then read back this thread after watching it.

Lots of the comments aged like milk

YC was absolute bullshit, but like Dodge said England made use of their one man superiority far better and that was more telling than the card itself.

I was gobsmacked when Roigard went off. Any word? Serious injury.

England are inches from unleashing big, big wins against anyone.

NZ as everyone has said need a major overhaul.

@Jet said in England Vs All Blacks:

Scott Barrett on the yellow card "I think its fair".

Razor on the yellow card "its cynical isnt it".

You pair of absolute fucking twats.

Fucking cowards

@Dodge said in England Vs All Blacks:

Lineout was the only area we got smashed, but every time it didn’t seem to result in much as we made metres in defence and attack one out. It’s genuinely weird, I’m not celebrating it, just gobsmacked

A team with more brains would have kicked every possession into touch so they could steal all your line out ball and then kicked it into touch again until they got into your 22

@MiketheSnow said in England Vs All Blacks:

I was gobsmacked when Roigard went off. Any word? Serious injury.

Robertson talked about this in his post-match press conference. Cam Roigard took a knock before half time. He thought he could run it off afterwards but couldn't run so he signalled that he needed to go off.

No news about the extent of the injury but I'd be amazed if he is involved against Wales.

@junior said in England Vs All Blacks:

@Dodge said in England Vs All Blacks:

Lineout was the only area we got smashed, but every time it didn’t seem to result in much as we made metres in defence and attack one out. It’s genuinely weird, I’m not celebrating it, just gobsmacked

A team with more brains would have kicked every possession into touch so they could steal all your line out ball and then kicked it into touch again until they got into your 22

In a way that's the most disappointing aspect of yesterday, our team's total inability to react to what was going on around them because of their compulsion to stick to "the master coach's" game plan.

That squad need to go away over the summer and watch some videos of classic All Blacks performances.

@booboo said in England Vs All Blacks:

@Gunner said in England Vs All Blacks:

Beauden Barrett, not once but twice, fucking TWICE missing touch

In BB's defence it was ONCE ... (once too many). Roigard fucked up the second one.

Which points fo the fact BB was injured, and should have been hooked.

For the prosecution, it's not the first time this tour he has done that - indeed, he did the exact same fucked up kick in the exact same filled position against the Paddies.

@African-Monkey said in England Vs All Blacks:

@Tim said in England Vs All Blacks:

Around 32:30 we nearly scored in the corner, then meekly allowed England to drive us off the ball. See if you can spot a loose forward in these pictures ... Savea stands way off the ruck and looks disinterested. Terrible openside. Absolutely shithouse selection. They never even looked interested in the follow-up ruck after LF was tackled.

View image

View image

View image

View image

View image

View image

The much maligned Sam Cane at his peak would have cleaned someone out there.

Rewatch Crotty try after the hooter that won us the game in Dublin in 2013. The cleanout work is incredible. The Franks brothers made the try. Messam makes a bust down the right edge at one point and McCaw absolutely melts an irish player in the clean.

Watch it. Watch all the unseen stuff. Compare it to what we are served up by the current bunch.