AB Blindside - past, present & future

@pakman said in AB Blindside - past, present & future:

@Fale009 said in AB Blindside - past, present & future:

@Mauss said in AB Blindside - past, present & future:

The players who do seem to be rather typical 8s have their own issues, whether it’s a lack of size (Lio-Willie) or a lack of experience (Wrampling-Alec).

Wrampling-Alec is one who excites me. Very good athlete and plays with a dog mentality that seems to be missing in a lot of NZ players these days. Nice to see his carry and tackle rate quite high for a newcomer. He has the physical tools but I'd like to see if he can play in a tighter role too.

Looking at the opening AB squad, on form Wally S would have to be first pick at 8.

The back up is wide open. Two leaving players (Sotutu and Flanders) would have been naturals, but assuming they are gone.

Personally I'd like to see a big carrying 8. Wrampling-Alec certainly caught the eye at the weekend with his carry through traffic for a try. Of the rest, Tupou-Ta'eiloa was the outstanding power 8 early doors, but seems to have trailed off in the sad Moana situation.

Others impress with workrate, but hard to think of any who have the heft to stand out at test, as opposed to Super, level.

Am I missing someone?

You're missing Casey. It's a very small sample size, but that performance on the weekend was huge and against an AB loose trio. A lot of raw edges, but the man can carry, tackle and smash rucks.

@pakman said in AB Blindside - past, present & future:

Looking at the opening AB squad, on form Wally S would have to be first pick at 8.

Listening to Goldie on the Breakdown, he wants Lakai at 8 and Sititi at 6.

Can't say I am of the same opinion.

@antipodean said in AB Blindside - past, present & future:

@pakman said in AB Blindside - past, present & future:

Looking at the opening AB squad, on form Wally S would have to be first pick at 8.

Listening to Goldie on the Breakdown, he wants Lakai at 8 and Sititi at 6.

Can't say I am of the same opinion.

What, and Ardie at 7?

Tiniest loose forward trio of all time.

@antipodean said in AB Blindside - past, present & future:

@pakman said in AB Blindside - past, present & future:

Looking at the opening AB squad, on form Wally S would have to be first pick at 8.

Listening to Goldie on the Breakdown, he wants Lakai at 8 and Sititi at 6.

Can't say I am of the same opinion.

Was it on there or am I thinking of somewhere else where he prefaced his comments with 'I don't know anything about lineouts' or similar?
Well at least there's one thing we can agree on Jeff.

@antipodean said in AB Blindside - past, present & future:

@pakman said in AB Blindside - past, present & future:

Looking at the opening AB squad, on form Wally S would have to be first pick at 8.

Listening to Goldie on the Breakdown, he wants Lakai at 8 and Sititi at 6.

Can't say I am of the same opinion.

I want a big munter at 6 against the Boks. Lakai is fine as 7. And Sititi at 8.

@reprobate said in AB Blindside - past, present & future:

@pakman said in AB Blindside - past, present & future:

@Fale009 said in AB Blindside - past, present & future:

@Mauss said in AB Blindside - past, present & future:

The players who do seem to be rather typical 8s have their own issues, whether it’s a lack of size (Lio-Willie) or a lack of experience (Wrampling-Alec).

Wrampling-Alec is one who excites me. Very good athlete and plays with a dog mentality that seems to be missing in a lot of NZ players these days. Nice to see his carry and tackle rate quite high for a newcomer. He has the physical tools but I'd like to see if he can play in a tighter role too.

Looking at the opening AB squad, on form Wally S would have to be first pick at 8.

The back up is wide open. Two leaving players (Sotutu and Flanders) would have been naturals, but assuming they are gone.

Personally I'd like to see a big carrying 8. Wrampling-Alec certainly caught the eye at the weekend with his carry through traffic for a try. Of the rest, Tupou-Ta'eiloa was the outstanding power 8 early doors, but seems to have trailed off in the sad Moana situation.

Others impress with workrate, but hard to think of any who have the heft to stand out at test, as opposed to Super, level.

Am I missing someone?

You're missing Casey. It's a very small sample size, but that performance on the weekend was huge and against an AB loose trio. A lot of raw edges, but the man can carry, tackle and smash rucks.

I did think of him. Pity he won't get to showcase his wares come final rounds.

@pakman Yeah the approach will be very interesting. We are on a short time line, and if you think someone like Casey or Barnes is a potential for a WC 23, do you take them on tour anyway to fast track development?

@reprobate said in AB Blindside - past, present & future:

and if you think someone like Casey or Barnes is a potential for a WC 23, do you take them on tour anyway to fast track development?

100% you do. A rare proper tour.

@pakman said in AB Blindside - past, present & future:

I want a big munter at 6 against the Boks

Unfortunately, I just don't think we have one.

@pakman said in AB Blindside - past, present & future:

@antipodean said in AB Blindside - past, present & future:

@pakman said in AB Blindside - past, present & future:

Looking at the opening AB squad, on form Wally S would have to be first pick at 8.

Listening to Goldie on the Breakdown, he wants Lakai at 8 and Sititi at 6.

Can't say I am of the same opinion.

I want a big munter at 6 against the Boks. Lakai is fine as 7. And Sititi at 8.

I'm still not convinced by Lakai. He's good, he's consistent. But for me he isn't head and shoulders better than half a dozen other guys, and I don't really see how his game translates better against bigger bodies at test level. I'd pick e.g. all of Valetini, Wilson, McReight and Cale ahead of him. He's a good carrier but he's not that big, and he's not got really fast feet - so I just see him playing like he did vs England - a huge effort with 20 carries, but not all that much actually achieved. He's also not really a volume tackler nor super-accurate. He is a bit of a pain at the ruck which I like.
Then when you combine that with Sititi's strongest suit being his carrying, I don't see it as a good combination really. And even if that's the balance you want, then I think it would be a fair argument to say Savea is better than Lakai at everything he does.

Also the big munter still doesn't exist, which is our bigger problem.

@Canes4life snap

@reprobate said in AB Blindside - past, present & future:

@Canes4life snap

I see Lakai as more of your bench loosie, covers 6,7 and 8 and has the mobile game when the game opens up. Savea will start at 7, Sititi will start at 8, we just need to find the guy at 6. I quite like Malachi-Wrampling or Barnes but they are fairly young.

@reprobate said in AB Blindside - past, present & future:

@pakman said in AB Blindside - past, present & future:

@antipodean said in AB Blindside - past, present & future:

@pakman said in AB Blindside - past, present & future:

Looking at the opening AB squad, on form Wally S would have to be first pick at 8.

Listening to Goldie on the Breakdown, he wants Lakai at 8 and Sititi at 6.

Can't say I am of the same opinion.

I want a big munter at 6 against the Boks. Lakai is fine as 7. And Sititi at 8.

I'm still not convinced by Lakai. He's good, he's consistent. But for me he isn't head and shoulders better than half a dozen other guys, and I don't really see how his game translates better against bigger bodies at test level. I'd pick e.g. all of Valetini, Wilson, McReight and Cale ahead of him. He's a good carrier but he's not that big, and he's not got really fast feet - so I just see him playing like he did vs England - a huge effort with 20 carries, but not all that much actually achieved. He's also not really a volume tackler nor super-accurate. He is a bit of a pain at the ruck which I like.
Then when you combine that with Sititi's strongest suit being his carrying, I don't see it as a good combination really. And even if that's the balance you want, then I think it would be a fair argument to say Savea is better than Lakai at everything he does.

Also the big munter still doesn't exist, which is our bigger problem.

gee and I thought I was only one who couldnt see what the attraction with him was. not a 8 only a 7 but doesn't do the dirty work like we need.was well and truly out played by segner last week

@reprobate said in AB Blindside - past, present & future:

@pakman said in AB Blindside - past, present & future:

@antipodean said in AB Blindside - past, present & future:

@pakman said in AB Blindside - past, present & future:

Looking at the opening AB squad, on form Wally S would have to be first pick at 8.

Listening to Goldie on the Breakdown, he wants Lakai at 8 and Sititi at 6.

Can't say I am of the same opinion.

I want a big munter at 6 against the Boks. Lakai is fine as 7. And Sititi at 8.

I'm still not convinced by Lakai. He's good, he's consistent. But for me he isn't head and shoulders better than half a dozen other guys, and I don't really see how his game translates better against bigger bodies at test level. I'd pick e.g. all of Valetini, Wilson, McReight and Cale ahead of him. He's a good carrier but he's not that big, and he's not got really fast feet - so I just see him playing like he did vs England - a huge effort with 20 carries, but not all that much actually achieved. He's also not really a volume tackler nor super-accurate. He is a bit of a pain at the ruck which I like.
Then when you combine that with Sititi's strongest suit being his carrying, I don't see it as a good combination really. And even if that's the balance you want, then I think it would be a fair argument to say Savea is better than Lakai at everything he does.

Also the big munter still doesn't exist, which is our bigger problem.

Lakai is definitely an option at 7. Sititi is very inconsistent.

In terms of 6, Finau should have been persisted with.

The best young form options coming through this are Barnes, Wrampling, and Saifoloi.

Howden has makes quite a few errors. We haven't seen enough of Haig or Stodart.

These guys all have better size than Lakai, Sititi, and Jacobson but none of these players including Parker or Finau have the same size as Psdt or Ollivon.

@reprobate said in AB Blindside - past, present & future:

Also the big munter still doesn't exist, which is our bigger problem.

We don't even have a small munter.

@antipodean Flanders and Parker probably fit the bill as big munters, one is heading offshore, the other clearly hasnt been told he is a big munter.

@taniwharugby said in AB Blindside - past, present & future:

@antipodean Flanders and Parker probably fit the bill as big munters, one is heading offshore, the other clearly hasnt been told he is a big munter.

Parker doesn't fit the bill for me. He was shrugged off with ease by a rampaging Casey last Friday, not exactly what you want from an enforcer.

@Canes4life said in AB Blindside - past, present & future:

@taniwharugby said in AB Blindside - past, present & future:

@antipodean Flanders and Parker probably fit the bill as big munters, one is heading offshore, the other clearly hasnt been told he is a big munter.

Parker doesn't fit the bill for me. He was shrugged off with ease by a rampaging Casey last Friday, not exactly what you want from an enforcer.

Parker is a weird one eh. Does good things but too regularly gets beaten really badly.

The challenge for Lucas Casey is that he's essentially competing against Wallace Sititi and Peter Lakai. Two guys who have the runs on the board at international level. You couldn't have all three in the squad. Very similar players physically.

@SouthernMann said in AB Blindside - past, present & future:

The challenge for Lucas Casey is that he's essentially competing against Wallace Sititi and Peter Lakai. Two guys who have the runs on the board at international level. You couldn't have all three in the squad. Very similar players physically.

Yeah Sititi and Lakai will definitely be in the squad IMO. He may get in over Kirifi though, but then you also have to factor in someone like Segner who's also playing very well.

@Canes4life said in AB Blindside - past, present & future:

Yeah Sititi and Lakai will definitely be in the squad IMO. He may get in over Kirifi though, but then you also have to factor in someone like Segner who's also playing very well.

Kirifi is even smaller than Casey. More of a genuine seven that Casey though.

You certainly couldn't have all four of those players involved.

Kirifi only made the All Blacks in the first place because Lakai was out injured and he's had enough chances for us to see that he isn’t up to test match level. Casey may still struggle to find a spot in the squad even if Kirifi isn’t considered (depending on the size of the squad and how many loose forwards are included) but if he does make it, the loose forward group will be skewing towards the smaller side.

It was only one game but none of Lakai, Sititi, or Kirifi have ever produced the output that Casey did in a single game.

Sometimes tests require insane output. For example Pstd made 28 tackles in the RWC final while Savea made 22 carries.

Paps and Blackadder have made tackles in the high twenties in a single test too.

@reprobate said in AB Blindside - past, present & future:

Also the big munter still doesn't exist, which is our bigger problem.

10 years and we're still looking for the 'next Kaino'. Besides Aumua, I don't really see any other players around NZ who put pride into being a defensive brick wall. I'm talking about the kind of players who don't want you to gain another inch once they hit you. To me, thats a mindset and I can't think of any others who have it at the moment.

@Fale009 I'd say EdG has it, Lomax too.

@Bones I def agree with De Groot. Only issue is his ineffectiveness at times, especially when fatigued.

@brodean said in AB Blindside - past, present & future:

The best young form options coming through this are Barnes, Wrampling, and Saifoloi.

I like Poliko as a young-ish option. Has had fuck all Super rugby game time though. Hopefully that changes next year with Flanders gone.

@Fale009 said in AB Blindside - past, present & future:

@Bones I def agree with De Groot. Only issue is his ineffectiveness at times, especially when fatigued.

Looks a different beast this year.

@Fale009 said in AB Blindside - past, present & future:

@brodean said in AB Blindside - past, present & future:

The best young form options coming through this are Barnes, Wrampling, and Saifoloi.

I like Poliko as a young-ish option. Has had fuck all Super rugby game time though. Hopefully that changes next year with Flanders gone.

I think he played against MP? He needs to get some more game time.

@Fale009 said in AB Blindside - past, present & future:

@reprobate said in AB Blindside - past, present & future:

Also the big munter still doesn't exist, which is our bigger problem.

10 years and we're still looking for the 'next Kaino'. Besides Aumua, I don't really see any other players around NZ who put pride into being a defensive brick wall. I'm talking about the kind of players who don't want you to gain another inch once they hit you. To me, thats a mindset and I can't think of any others who have it at the moment.

Paps had his moments. His jaw might differ.