Exodus

@KiwiMurph said in Exodus 2019:

Piutau definitely makes the World Cup squad if he had signed on past the RWC. The way they justified Naholo was basically saying "if we are choosing between two players who are close and one is staying and one is going then we select the one who is staying".

Yeah I'll take what Hansen said with a grain of salt. Of course he would take the opportunity to say that. At one of his earlier June squad selections he volunteered that two guys would have been new caps except they signed overseas but were overlooked - and the fern couldn't even come to a general consensus who one of them would be.

He says stuff like that, just like you can't lose your spot in the starting squad to injury (until you do) or you can't be picked playing overseas (until you can).

If Piutau was staying they would have picked him - NZRU made him a multi year offer and iirc he made every AB squad from his debut in 2013 up until the RWC squad in 2015.

At the time Piatau signed the contract Dagg and Jane had made every squad (aside from injury) for a longer time than that, and played key roles in the 2011 campaign. Both were committed until 2017. Both provided versatility. Both did not make it.

He also provided more versatility than Naholo with the ability to cover fullback - not to mention he'd played 17 tests vs what 1 test Naholo had prior to RWC 2015?

Two good arguments for his inclusion - ignoring the best argument which was that he had a broken leg. I would have selected Piatau, I just don't think it's a slam dunk Hansen would have.

It's a moot point though given he signed in March. If committed perhaps he gets the opportunities given to NMS in the Bledisloe and takes them with both hands. But Hansen very obviously saw Naholo as a difference maker after Super Rugby and was so weirdly committed to him that despite a mixed debut and a broken leg he took him with the idea of playing him into enough fitness to make the first XV during the pool rounds.

Hansen didn't see him as a difference maker and even if he did get the last back three spot he almost certainly would have been outside the match day 23.

This all of course forgets the irony that Waisake Naholo signed overseas before Piatau that year but was able to get out of the deal.

@rotated I'm not really sure what Jane and Dagg have to do with anything. Jane was 32 by 2015 and Dagg came back from injury late in 2015 and was clearly way short of his best when he played 2015 NPC - the RWC came around too soon for him in his comeback.

@Nepia Piatau coming across like a jumped up prick who seems have forgotten it was the NZ rugby system that has made him the player he is today..
Did not get his way from World rugby in terms of eligibility when looking to represent Tonga at this year’s World Cup..
Sounding very much like a person despite the million dollar salaries has got a very big chip on his shoulder.

@Bones said in Exodus 2019:

I'm intrigued as to how he's making his name. I never hear anything about him. Interesting how he's a trailblazer...doing pretty much exactly what Evans did - except Evans was much more successful and popular.

Evans is white.
Piutau is Pasifika. He's reaching out to the Pasifika players.

@mimic said in Exodus 2019:

@Bones said in Exodus 2019:

I'm intrigued as to how he's making his name. I never hear anything about him. Interesting how he's a trailblazer...doing pretty much exactly what Evans did - except Evans was much more successful and popular.

Evans is white.
Piutau is Pasifika. He's reaching out to the Pasifika players.

Hmmm... I can't really say I'm convinced he's a pioneer for Pasifika players. Player with Pacific Island heritage heads north and earns good money? Unheard of right!

@Bones said in Exodus 2019:

@mimic said in Exodus 2019:

@Bones said in Exodus 2019:

I'm intrigued as to how he's making his name. I never hear anything about him. Interesting how he's a trailblazer...doing pretty much exactly what Evans did - except Evans was much more successful and popular.

Evans is white.
Piutau is Pasifika. He's reaching out to the Pasifika players.

Hmmm... I can't really say I'm convinced he's a pioneer for Pasifika players. Player with Pacific Island heritage heads north and earns good money? Unheard of right!

How many high profile Pasifika players choose money over (a realistic chance at) the Black jersey when they were young?

@Steven-Harris said in Exodus 2019:

@Nepia Piatau coming across like a jumped up prick who seems have forgotten it was the NZ rugby system that has made him the player he is today..
Did not get his way from World rugby in terms of eligibility when looking to represent Tonga at this year’s World Cup..
Sounding very much like a person despite the million dollar salaries has got a very big chip on his shoulder.

Not sure it is a chip, more a justification. He must know that he sold himself short on sporting ambition for an understandable financial decision. His family has benefitted way more from his leaving NZ than if he had stayed and got more caps.
However, it probably eats at him a bit given that to get where he did he must be a competitive person. One way of dealing with the situation is to suggest to everyone similar that it is a good thing.

@Billy-Tell said in Exodus 2019:

I have to say I really don’t share the love of some on this forum for proctor. Ive always found him average. It’s a loss for the canes but not really nz imo.

I'm a huge Canes fan and not too concerned. He has never done a lot in my opinion. I'd rather see Laumape / Aso combo.

@KiwiMurph said in Exodus 2019:

@rotated I'm not really sure what Jane and Dagg have to do with anything. Jane was 32 by 2015 and Dagg came back from injury late in 2015 and was clearly way short of his best when he played 2015 NPC - the RWC came around too soon for him in his comeback.

They were the general consensus was they were other two in the frame with Piatau, Naholo and NMS for two spots.

The NZRU assisted Naholo to reneg on his contract with Clermont (??) that year, so any obligation to take Piatau to the RWC on the basis of a new contract would have counted double for Naholo.

@mimic said in Exodus 2019:

How many high profile Pasifika players choose money over (a realistic chance at) the Black jersey when they were young?

A decent number. It's just that they tend to leave early and play their whole careers overseas. There's a few pull on England etc jumpers instead. Some elect to play for Australia come to that. Japan's got a few too.

I think we just tend to lose the ones who think of themselves as whatever Island first, and Kiwis second. We tend to keep the ones who think of themselves as Kiwis first, and Islanders second. I'm not worried about losing the mercenaries -- they were never going to be much interested in playing for the black jumper as the priority and earning good money as a nice benefit.

@Higgins said in Exodus 2019:

@sparky said in Exodus 2019:

Matt Proctor signs for Northampton Saints, linking up with former Hurricanes coach Chris Boyd:

View embedded content

Saints sign New Zealand centre Matt Proctor

Friday, January 11 2019.
Northampton Saints can today announce that Kiwi centre Matt Proctor will join the Club from Super Rugby franchise Hurricanes. The 26-year-old New Zealand international is director of rugby Chris Boyd’s first new signing for next season, with a raft of current Saints already penning deals to remain at Franklin’s Gardens.

While comfortable both on the wing and at fullback, Proctor has established himself as one of the best midfielders in the Southern Hemisphere in recent seasons.

And after committing to make the switch across the world to the Gallagher Premiership, Proctor is already relishing the prospect of a new challenge on English soil with Northampton.

“I am excited to have signed for such a prestigious club in Northampton Saints,” said Proctor.

“For a long time now, I have had the ambition of testing myself in the Northern Hemisphere and for so many reasons Northampton is a great fit for me.

“Not only will I have the opportunity to be coached again by Chris Boyd – the person I have worked with the most as a professional player – but I will also have the honour of joining a Club that is steeped in tradition and boasts a rich history of success.

“The Club and I share the same goals in wanting to achieve as much success as possible on the pitch, while also contributing to the wider rugby community off the field; so overall I am thrilled to be heading to Franklin’s Gardens.”

After making his Super Rugby debut in 2013, Wellington-born Proctor was part of the Hurricanes side that – under Boyd – secured the title three years later.

He celebrated his 50th appearance for the franchise in 2018, while also being named captain for Wellington Lions’ Mitre 10 Cup campaign.

In the same season Proctor then made his All Blacks Test debut against Japan in November, with his representative career also including the Maori All Blacks, New Zealand Under-20s and New Zealand Schools.

Boyd said: “Matt is exactly the calibre of player that we want to be bringing to Northampton – he’s a world-class talent.

“I obviously know first-hand what he can do having worked with him back in New Zealand, and I am confident he can slot into our back-line next year alongside the quality players we already have at Saints.

“At 26, Matt is entering the peak years of his career and he had the desire for a new challenge on this side of the world. We feel that he can really fill his vast potential here in Northampton.”

Man, these quotes by players and coaches are just so scripted by the PR people is it almost laughable. Look at this one for example of something that in my forty years or so of involvement in rugby have never, even remotely, heard a rugby player express themselves in this manner.

“The Club and I share the same goals in wanting to achieve as much success as possible on the pitch, while also contributing to the wider rugby community off the field; so overall I am thrilled to be heading to Franklin’s Gardens.”

Corporate wank speak 101. Outstanding. Not in a good way.

As for Piatau given that none of us have been ABs its pretty rich those posters making assumptions on his behalf. Almost like they're offended on behalf of NZ. He's gone. So what ? Plenty of others on the conveyer belt ready to take over just like any job really.

@MN5 dont entirely agree...I'm not bothered he left (sure he was talented and could well have been an awesome AB)) I am annoyed by his supposed 'trailblazing' that this is what all people should do (Sopoaga is walking a similar path) he was hard done by missing out on RWC selection so follow his path turn your back on that jersey that gave you the big step up to where you are now, and follow him cos it's waaaaay better.

Sure I might be overstating it, but he does come across with a bit of a chip and maybe also a hint of regret but is trying to overcompensate by claiming he is a trail blazer.

Each to thier own...IMO, he stays, he definitely makes RWC squad (and earlier tests) ahead of either NMS or Naholo, but he signed elsewhere they went with options committed to NZR.

Good on him he is making a good career and making a ton of money for him and his family, but the 'tone' of all the articles about him and Sopoaga (I know these are probably more media driven) is a bit precious.

@taniwharugby said in Exodus 2019:

@MN5 dont entirely agree...I'm not bothered he left (sure he was talented and could well have been an awesome AB)) I am annoyed by his supposed 'trailblazing' that this is what all people should do (Sopoaga is walking a similar path) he was hard done by missing out on RWC selection so follow his path turn your back on that jersey that gave you the big step up to where you are now, and follow him cos it's waaaaay better.

Sure I might be overstating it, but he does come across with a bit of a chip and maybe also a hint of regret but is trying to overcompensate by claiming he is a trail blazer.

Each to thier own...IMO, he stays, he definitely makes RWC squad (and earlier tests) ahead of either NMS or Naholo, but he signed elsewhere they went with options committed to NZR.

Good on him he is making a good career and making a ton of money for him and his family, but the 'tone' of all the articles about him and Sopoaga (I know these are probably more media driven) is a bit precious.

I've got no doubt they're media driven. I had a yarn over a beer with a bloke who knows a pretty well known professional rugby player who was in the mix but never quite there in terms of AB selection. Massive financial shit at home which even an AB contract might not have sorted. Hey presto, big deal overseas for a few years and lots of that pressure gone.

Long story short. None of us are this guy ( or Piatau ) so it's tough to see things from their point of view especially when the media throw around words like 'trailblazer' 'turncoat' or whatever.

@MN5 said in Exodus 2019:

@Higgins said in Exodus 2019:

@sparky said in Exodus 2019:

Matt Proctor signs for Northampton Saints, linking up with former Hurricanes coach Chris Boyd:

View embedded content

Saints sign New Zealand centre Matt Proctor

Friday, January 11 2019.
Northampton Saints can today announce that Kiwi centre Matt Proctor will join the Club from Super Rugby franchise Hurricanes. The 26-year-old New Zealand international is director of rugby Chris Boyd’s first new signing for next season, with a raft of current Saints already penning deals to remain at Franklin’s Gardens.

While comfortable both on the wing and at fullback, Proctor has established himself as one of the best midfielders in the Southern Hemisphere in recent seasons.

And after committing to make the switch across the world to the Gallagher Premiership, Proctor is already relishing the prospect of a new challenge on English soil with Northampton.

“I am excited to have signed for such a prestigious club in Northampton Saints,” said Proctor.

“For a long time now, I have had the ambition of testing myself in the Northern Hemisphere and for so many reasons Northampton is a great fit for me.

“Not only will I have the opportunity to be coached again by Chris Boyd – the person I have worked with the most as a professional player – but I will also have the honour of joining a Club that is steeped in tradition and boasts a rich history of success.

“The Club and I share the same goals in wanting to achieve as much success as possible on the pitch, while also contributing to the wider rugby community off the field; so overall I am thrilled to be heading to Franklin’s Gardens.”

After making his Super Rugby debut in 2013, Wellington-born Proctor was part of the Hurricanes side that – under Boyd – secured the title three years later.

He celebrated his 50th appearance for the franchise in 2018, while also being named captain for Wellington Lions’ Mitre 10 Cup campaign.

In the same season Proctor then made his All Blacks Test debut against Japan in November, with his representative career also including the Maori All Blacks, New Zealand Under-20s and New Zealand Schools.

Boyd said: “Matt is exactly the calibre of player that we want to be bringing to Northampton – he’s a world-class talent.

“I obviously know first-hand what he can do having worked with him back in New Zealand, and I am confident he can slot into our back-line next year alongside the quality players we already have at Saints.

“At 26, Matt is entering the peak years of his career and he had the desire for a new challenge on this side of the world. We feel that he can really fill his vast potential here in Northampton.”

Man, these quotes by players and coaches are just so scripted by the PR people is it almost laughable. Look at this one for example of something that in my forty years or so of involvement in rugby have never, even remotely, heard a rugby player express themselves in this manner.

“The Club and I share the same goals in wanting to achieve as much success as possible on the pitch, while also contributing to the wider rugby community off the field; so overall I am thrilled to be heading to Franklin’s Gardens.”

Corporate wank speak 101. Outstanding. Not in a good way.

As for Piatau given that none of us have been ABs its pretty rich those posters making assumptions on his behalf. Almost like they're offended on behalf of NZ. He's gone. So what ? Plenty of others on the conveyer belt ready to take over just like any job really.

What's the assumptions and who's offended? Was this just a segue to "I know a guy who knows a pro rugby player!"?

@Bones said in Exodus 2019:

@MN5 said in Exodus 2019:

@Higgins said in Exodus 2019:

@sparky said in Exodus 2019:

Matt Proctor signs for Northampton Saints, linking up with former Hurricanes coach Chris Boyd:

View embedded content

Saints sign New Zealand centre Matt Proctor

Friday, January 11 2019.
Northampton Saints can today announce that Kiwi centre Matt Proctor will join the Club from Super Rugby franchise Hurricanes. The 26-year-old New Zealand international is director of rugby Chris Boyd’s first new signing for next season, with a raft of current Saints already penning deals to remain at Franklin’s Gardens.

While comfortable both on the wing and at fullback, Proctor has established himself as one of the best midfielders in the Southern Hemisphere in recent seasons.

And after committing to make the switch across the world to the Gallagher Premiership, Proctor is already relishing the prospect of a new challenge on English soil with Northampton.

“I am excited to have signed for such a prestigious club in Northampton Saints,” said Proctor.

“For a long time now, I have had the ambition of testing myself in the Northern Hemisphere and for so many reasons Northampton is a great fit for me.

“Not only will I have the opportunity to be coached again by Chris Boyd – the person I have worked with the most as a professional player – but I will also have the honour of joining a Club that is steeped in tradition and boasts a rich history of success.

“The Club and I share the same goals in wanting to achieve as much success as possible on the pitch, while also contributing to the wider rugby community off the field; so overall I am thrilled to be heading to Franklin’s Gardens.”

After making his Super Rugby debut in 2013, Wellington-born Proctor was part of the Hurricanes side that – under Boyd – secured the title three years later.

He celebrated his 50th appearance for the franchise in 2018, while also being named captain for Wellington Lions’ Mitre 10 Cup campaign.

In the same season Proctor then made his All Blacks Test debut against Japan in November, with his representative career also including the Maori All Blacks, New Zealand Under-20s and New Zealand Schools.

Boyd said: “Matt is exactly the calibre of player that we want to be bringing to Northampton – he’s a world-class talent.

“I obviously know first-hand what he can do having worked with him back in New Zealand, and I am confident he can slot into our back-line next year alongside the quality players we already have at Saints.

“At 26, Matt is entering the peak years of his career and he had the desire for a new challenge on this side of the world. We feel that he can really fill his vast potential here in Northampton.”

Man, these quotes by players and coaches are just so scripted by the PR people is it almost laughable. Look at this one for example of something that in my forty years or so of involvement in rugby have never, even remotely, heard a rugby player express themselves in this manner.

“The Club and I share the same goals in wanting to achieve as much success as possible on the pitch, while also contributing to the wider rugby community off the field; so overall I am thrilled to be heading to Franklin’s Gardens.”

Corporate wank speak 101. Outstanding. Not in a good way.

As for Piatau given that none of us have been ABs its pretty rich those posters making assumptions on his behalf. Almost like they're offended on behalf of NZ. He's gone. So what ? Plenty of others on the conveyer belt ready to take over just like any job really.

What's the assumptions and who's offended? Was this just a segue to "I know a guy who knows a pro rugby player!"?

Nope just making a point. I'm sure lots of people on here know lots of people. Some are even lucky enough to have breakfast with Jerome Kaino, Liam Squire, Joe Moody and Damien McKenzie.

@MN5 and the assumptions? The offended?

@Bones said in Exodus 2019:

@MN5 and the assumptions? The offended?

This isn't an audit. It's a bunch of sad blokes talking on a forum. Stop being so serious.

@MN5 said in Exodus 2019:

@Bones said in Exodus 2019:

@MN5 and the assumptions? The offended?

This isn't an audit. It's a bunch of sad blokes talking on a forum. Stop being so serious.

Translated to... You were talking bollocks that makes no sense. I get it.

@Bones said in Exodus 2019:

@MN5 said in Exodus 2019:

@Bones said in Exodus 2019:

@MN5 and the assumptions? The offended?

This isn't an audit. It's a bunch of sad blokes talking on a forum. Stop being so serious.

Translated to... You were talking bollocks that makes no sense. I get it.

You're taking the fern way too seriously. Just stop

@MN5 haaaa says the guy making assumptions about people's supposed assumptions and about people being offended. Oh and don't forget you can't do that unless you've been an all black.

@Bones said in Exodus 2019:

@MN5 haaaa says the guy making assumptions about people's supposed assumptions and about people being offended. Oh and don't forget you can't do that unless you've been an all black.

Please read my post again. It's way too late in the evening to re iterate a point that I can barely remember making.

Which probably sums up just about all my posts.

@MN5 hmmm...nah.

JTA

Wasps seem determined to hoover up as many NZ players as they can for next season - kind of surprising given the restrictions - although maybe not if Brexit frees them up from having to abide by EU rules on numbers of Aus/NZ players in match-day squads.

Sting operation no doubt.

@Billy-Tell said in Exodus 2019:

Sting operation no doubt.

Your persistent hijacking of this thread has reached it's end, finally. I can't see you not getting banned for that.

Now it is JTA who is joining Wasps at the end of the SR season. This is becoming a mass exodus.

@cgrant Canes might not have a squad next season.

@Canes4life Lua Li is a better player than Chris Eves. You can get him from Harbour.

Montpellier owner, Mohed Altrad, on Aaron Cruden "Our outside half, since he's here, keeps hurting himself. This season he has been injured four times. It is difficult for him to be efficient. We hoped for something else."

A reminder to all those joining the Exodus that their new owners are unlikely to be as patient and understanding as NZR.

@sparky I feel so bad for Altrad!

@sparky said in Exodus 2019:

Montpellier owner, Mohed Altrad, on Aaron Cruden "Our outside half, since he's here, keeps hurting himself. This season he has been injured four times. It is difficult for him to be efficient. We hoped for something else."

A reminder to all those joining the Exodus that their new owners are unlikely to be as patient and understanding as NZR.

Tyler Bleyendaal might disagree with you.

@Derm-McCrum said in Exodus 2019:

@sparky said in Exodus 2019:

Montpellier owner, Mohed Altrad, on Aaron Cruden "Our outside half, since he's here, keeps hurting himself. This season he has been injured four times. It is difficult for him to be efficient. We hoped for something else."

A reminder to all those joining the Exodus that their new owners are unlikely to be as patient and understanding as NZR.

Tyler Bleyendaal might disagree with you.

Yes, poor Tyler. Education at Christchurch Boys' High, two years with the NZ under 20s, four years at Canterbury and three season at the Crusaders (as understudy to the best Five Five of all time) and receiving so much world-class coaching must have him totally underprepared for being poached by Ireland.

@sparky I thought @Derm-McCrum was referring to Munster being patient with his injuries.

Bleyendaal must go close to number 1 on the not living up to age group hype list.

@sparky said in Exodus 2019:

Montpellier owner, Mohed Altrad, on Aaron Cruden "Our outside half, since he's here, keeps hurting himself. This season he has been injured four times. It is difficult for him to be efficient. We hoped for something else."

A reminder to all those joining the Exodus that their new owners are unlikely to be as patient and understanding as NZR.

Given that Cruden left because he "missed a plane" and was frequently injured, what was Altrad expecting?

@sparky said in Exodus 2019:

@Derm-McCrum said in Exodus 2019:

@sparky said in Exodus 2019:

Montpellier owner, Mohed Altrad, on Aaron Cruden "Our outside half, since he's here, keeps hurting himself. This season he has been injured four times. It is difficult for him to be efficient. We hoped for something else."

A reminder to all those joining the Exodus that their new owners are unlikely to be as patient and understanding as NZR.

Tyler Bleyendaal might disagree with you.

Yes, poor Tyler. Education at Christchurch Boys' High, two years with the NZ under 20s, four years at Canterbury and three season at the Crusaders (as understudy to the best Five Five of all time) and receiving so much world-class coaching must have him totally underprepared for being poached by Ireland.

Err ‘poached’?? I think Munster contracted him. And they have been patient. He’s had 46 appearances since 2015/16 and they even extended his contract until June this year.

@MN5 said in Exodus 2019:

@Chester-Draws said in Exodus 2019:

@sparky said in Exodus 2019:

Montpellier owner, Mohed Altrad, on Aaron Cruden "Our outside half, since he's here, keeps hurting himself. This season he has been injured four times. It is difficult for him to be efficient. We hoped for something else."

A reminder to all those joining the Exodus that their new owners are unlikely to be as patient and understanding as NZR.

Given that Cruden left because he "missed a plane" and was frequently injured, what was Altrad expecting?

Did he really leave because of injuries and behaviour? I don't think so. He got past the blot on his copybook and was clearly valued by they AB coaches but could see that he was not going to hold off BBs rise to permanent 1st choice and had already ticked off his NZ career aims. Ideal time to collect some money for the years of work.

The problem that many overseas clubs are finding is that when they recruit a guy that has been to the top of the mountain they don't have the same motivation to go back there.
The better value for money is in the good players that are 'bubbling under' or blocked in their NZ pathway. They have the motivation of turning the game into a decently payed career.

Absolutely it is a case of buyer beware for Altred.

Be great to have Cruden back in NZ but more likely with his body obviously taking a beating perhaps Japan is a better fit for him $$$ as well