@Rembrandt said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):
I wonder if Reiko can push himself back into the frame here? Not exactly top notch opposition.
Just quietly - it's Rieko - some people get upset about that, but yes play an error free game, high work rate, train well and he should be in the picture.
I am happy but I wouldn't get too carried away. We looked good against England in 99 pool play too which was a much hyped pool game from memory.
Rieko's problem is Bridge's game seems far better suited to today's test rugby. Perhaps that's an indictment on today's test rugby (seriously how many box kicks have their been already) but Bridge is superior in the air, Bridge has superior workrate, he's as good of a link player, and Bridge actually has a kicking game. Rieko is a better ball runner (when in form) but up against Boks/Ireland etc Bridge's skillset seems far more useful. For all Rieko's early career greatness - he's got the exact same game he had 2 years ago (plus his form on that is way down). He hasn't developed his game at all - why hasn't he been working on a kicking game?
The interest will be how Hansen rotates his players in the next 3 games, particularly the front row and locks. Tu'ungafasi will be switching between LH and TH depending on who gets rested. Frizell could be used as a lock if required until BBBR is fit.
@Bovidae said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):
The interest will be how Hansen rotates his players in the next 3 games, particularly the front row and locks. Tu'ungafasi will be switching between LH and TH depending on who gets rested. Frizell could be used as a lock if required until BBBR is fit.
Agree on Frizell playing lock.
Canada will be a tougher prospect than Namibia but will they offer more resistance than Italy?
Given Italy is our final pool game I think they will want to play close to or even the same side they will want playing the QF.
And yes I’m not in the ol’ Henry-theory can’t play 3 intense tests in a row camp.
@KiwiMurph said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):
I am happy but I wouldn't get too carried away. We looked good against England in 99 pool play too which was a much hyped pool game from memory.
Rieko's problem is Bridge's game seems far better suited to today's test rugby. Perhaps that's an indictment on today's test rugby (seriously how many box kicks have their been already) but Bridge is superior in the air, Bridge has superior workrate, he's as good of a link player, and Bridge actually has a kicking game. Rieko is a better ball runner (when in form) but up against Boks/Ireland etc Bridge's skillset seems far more useful. For all Rieko's early career greatness - he's got the exact same game he had 2 years ago (plus his form on that is way down). He hasn't developed his game at all - why hasn't he been working on a kicking game?
Very good question.
Possibly because, like his brother, he has dominated earlier age grade rugby. Why work on further skills when you have been kicking ass all your life?
George Bridge is similar to Ben Smith, nowhere near as naturally talented as the Ioane brothers but has had to constantly improve.
Thus, he has a very different mindset.
Read a book where they said top athletes are generally not the most naturally gifted, ones that have to work harder to get to the same level have better habits and work ethic. Probably why some gifted juniors never make it.
Listened to an interview with A Smith who said the big game changer for him was not getting a super rugby contract and being told by the Hurricanes he was too fat and unfit. He didn’t realise at the time just how much hard work was required to get to the top level. Guess the key is to get the naturally gifted with the work ethic of the Goat.
@chimoaus said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):
work harder to get to the same level have better habits and work ethic.
That applies to life in general but the guys with the talent that don't use it annoy me (having none - talent that is).
@chimoaus said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):
Read a book where they said top athletes are generally not the most naturally gifted, ones that have to work harder to get to the same level have better habits and work ethic. Probably why some gifted juniors never make it.
Listened to an interview with A Smith who said the big game changer for him was not getting a super rugby contract and being told by the Hurricanes he was too fat and unfit. He didn’t realise at the time just how much hard work was required to get to the top level. Guess the key is to get the naturally gifted with the work ethic of the Goat.
Michael Jordan never made his high school basketball team. He used that and other slights, real or imagined, to fuel his HoF career
@ACT-Crusader said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):
@Bovidae said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):
The interest will be how Hansen rotates his players in the next 3 games, particularly the front row and locks. Tu'ungafasi will be switching between LH and TH depending on who gets rested. Frizell could be used as a lock if required until BBBR is fit.
Agree on Frizell playing lock.
Canada will be a tougher prospect than Namibia but will they offer more resistance than Italy?
Given Italy is our final pool game I think they will want to play close to or even the same side they will want playing the QF.
And yes I’m not in the ol’ Henry-theory can’t play 3 intense tests in a row camp.
They're just going to have to huh?
@canefan said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):
@chimoaus said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):
Read a book where they said top athletes are generally not the most naturally gifted, ones that have to work harder to get to the same level have better habits and work ethic. Probably why some gifted juniors never make it.
Listened to an interview with A Smith who said the big game changer for him was not getting a super rugby contract and being told by the Hurricanes he was too fat and unfit. He didn’t realise at the time just how much hard work was required to get to the top level. Guess the key is to get the naturally gifted with the work ethic of the Goat.
Michael Jordan never made his high school basketball team. He used that and other slights, real or imagined, to fuel his HoF career
30 for 30 on Brian Boswell: "Brian and The Bos".
Was the best player in the team but kept working hard. (Until he didn't. )
@booboo said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):
@ACT-Crusader said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):
@Bovidae said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):
The interest will be how Hansen rotates his players in the next 3 games, particularly the front row and locks. Tu'ungafasi will be switching between LH and TH depending on who gets rested. Frizell could be used as a lock if required until BBBR is fit.
Agree on Frizell playing lock.
Canada will be a tougher prospect than Namibia but will they offer more resistance than Italy?
Given Italy is our final pool game I think they will want to play close to or even the same side they will want playing the QF.
And yes I’m not in the ol’ Henry-theory can’t play 3 intense tests in a row camp.
They're just going to have to huh?
I think Henry is being unfairly maligned. His comment is that there is a performance dropoff int he third week of tough tests, and it's really hard to maintain standards. I think he's right ... it doesn't mean you can't win it (obviously), but it does compromise your performance.
@Hooroo said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):
Are we all happy so far? I certainly am.
It's the pool stages of the RWC, of course I'm bloody happy. I might be a miserable bastard but if you can't enjoy things now you never will.
As far as the ABs, two big performances, under pressure in the past three tests is pretty bloody good and to see ALB and Savea step up big time and be counted is satisfying.
My overall opinion of the team is about the same as it was at the start of the year... the centre combo, iffy goal kicking and lack of any squad members with previous RWC pain are the major landmines, but providing the ABs can get the Scotland/Japan/Samoa QF they are capable and should be favoured to navigate through like the Boks in 2007.
They are now on that side so happy days.
Going forward the only selection of serious interest is the centres where they surely now have to force four into three; where two are sacred cows, but the other two are undroppable on form. Perhaps Goodhue's injury makes this academic?
@chimoaus said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):
Read a book where they said top athletes are generally not the most naturally gifted, ones that have to work harder to get to the same level have better habits and work ethic. Probably why some gifted juniors never make it.
On the other hand thought there is a hockey study which I believe has been replicated in other sports showing kids born in the months immediately after age-grade cut offs (i.e. biggest/oldest in their age grade) are more likely to make rep teams growing up and in turn are more likely to make the pros. It is a distinct advantage.
What is the age grade cut off for rugby in NZ? What is McCaw's birthday?
@mikedogz said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):
31 December 1980
For Richie six days late really.
@nzzp said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):
I think Henry is being unfairly maligned. His comment is that there is a performance dropoff int he third week of tough tests, and it's really hard to maintain standards. I think he's right ... it doesn't mean you can't win it (obviously), but it does compromise your performance.
It's all a bit bullshit either way though, as each and every knock-out opposition is coming off equally hard games in a row too.
we do have more depth than others, so it could be beneficial to rotate more, but how? the minnows are no challenge to the 'B'-est team we could put out, so we can rest for them as can all the big teams. you can't rest players for a semi or final, you might be able to sub early in a 1/4, but that's about it.
@rotated said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):
@chimoaus said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):
Read a book where they said top athletes are generally not the most naturally gifted, ones that have to work harder to get to the same level have better habits and work ethic. Probably why some gifted juniors never make it.
On the other hand thought there is a hockey study which I believe has been replicated in other sports showing kids born in the months immediately after age-grade cut offs (i.e. biggest/oldest in their age grade) are more likely to make rep teams growing up and in turn are more likely to make the pros. It is a distinct advantage.
yep. not a surprising result at all - make the reps early, get all the encouragement and the best coaching and more serious fitness / strength work. takes a lot more self-motivation to take the hard road.
@reprobate said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):
@rotated said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):
@chimoaus said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):
Read a book where they said top athletes are generally not the most naturally gifted, ones that have to work harder to get to the same level have better habits and work ethic. Probably why some gifted juniors never make it.
On the other hand thought there is a hockey study which I believe has been replicated in other sports showing kids born in the months immediately after age-grade cut offs (i.e. biggest/oldest in their age grade) are more likely to make rep teams growing up and in turn are more likely to make the pros. It is a distinct advantage.
yep. not a surprising result at all - make the reps early, get all the encouragement and the best coaching and more serious fitness / strength work. takes a lot more self-motivation to take the hard road.
That was in Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell. Also if you want to become expert at anything they say you need to practice at least 10000 hours
@canefan said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):
That was in Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell. Also if you want to become expert at anything they say you need to practice at least 10000 hours
the 10,000 hours had been debunked I thought?
@nzzp said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):
@canefan said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):
That was in Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell. Also if you want to become expert at anything they say you need to practice at least 10000 hours
the 10,000 hours had been debunked I thought?
Dunno, just regurgitating what I read. I would imagine it's a lot of hours. Of course you need some natural skill as well
@ACT-Crusader said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):
Canada will be a tougher prospect than Namibia but will they offer more resistance than Italy?
Tonga 33, Canada 23 in the Pacific Nations Cup doesn't really bode well for them, unless they've acquired some significant reinforcements.
Canada is on a 5-game losing streak, including a loss to Leinster. The interest will be Ardron and Olmstead.
@Chris-B said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):
@ACT-Crusader said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):
Canada will be a tougher prospect than Namibia but will they offer more resistance than Italy?
Tonga 33, Canada 23 in the Pacific Nations Cup doesn't really bode well for them, unless they've acquired some significant reinforcements.
So Tonga were keeping their powder dry in Hamilton...
I think we will put our wings away for now - they will tinker with the midfiled and I think they will change the front row, plus give Reado and Cane a break.
I'm pretty happy wiht our performance - except for our start, but we have certainly upped the tempo.
Ithink out of all the coaches, Shag will be the happiest with Schmidt a close second.
@Jailbreak7 given Cane didn’t play a full game against the Boks I say he gets a run with Todd against Canada to give Ardie a spell.
@rotated it is. But counterintuitively, if you are younger and smaller v your peer group (like many kids born late in the year) but manage to stay in the top grade, when you finally hit your growth spurt, you’re more likely to succeed at the top level.
Lots of factors, but the biggies are mental toughness, being forced to perfect technique to compete and not being reliant on relative speed and size.
Another issue with that study is that jnr hockey players get very few touches of the puck so the extra ice time first line players get becomes a huge advantage over time. It turns out that as against that oft-quoted study having access to a rink outside of practice/games (in the backyard or down the road) is a bigger predictor than early year birthdate.
Back on topic - back in Toronto after my jaunt to Japan and the boys here are desperate for the Maple Leafs to put up a good showing.
But even with Sir Ted’s help most of the former Canadian test players are not confident. The days of Canada competing by fielding a vicious pack of lumberjacks, rigpigs and autoworkers with some flash if slightly raw backs are over.
Fact is that Canada has adapted to professionalism slower and worse than any other T2 nation. Some of that is structural but mostly it is that the game here has always been shockingly poorly governed with no vision and bags of provincialism.
A story I have never been able to confirm but which is perfectly believable (and illustrative) was that in the 90s when the 5 nations looked to expand they tested the waters with Canada before approaching Italy. And Rugby Canada rejected the approach out of hand because they believed it would be too expensive for Canada to participate!
This whinge of a post is really just to set up what my wish is for this squad: that the Rumballs, Hearns and Sears-Durus and others pick up contracts in top competitions. Unless and until that happens Canada will continue to underperform.
@Smuts said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):
@rotated it is. But counterintuitively, if you are younger and smaller v your peer group (like many kids born late in the year) but manage to stay in the top grade, when you finally hit your growth spurt, you’re more likely to succeed at the top level.
My mate has a theory (in classic Fern style) that a lot of great basketballers grow late. As you say, they need mental toughness and grit and skills to survive, and then get the physical attributes. If you're massive early, unless you're Yao Ming or Shaq, you get lazy and just dominate physically.
We see this all the time in Rugby; schoolboy superstars used to running around slower and weaker opponents, suddenly finding that doesn't work against good D. Takes time to up--skill, and some never do
Been thinking quite a bit about this game and strategy for the AB's from here.
11 days between the Boks and Canada means lots of time for rest and recuperation but then only a 4 day turn around for Namibia. And then 6 days for Italy.
IMHO, they need to go with the bulk of the first choice squad for this next game and Italy and the support squad against Namibia.
So by employing such a strategy, the top AB team gets a rest of 11 days for Canada and then another 10 days before Italy. That my friends is plenty of rest before the knock out stages.
Clearly Canada from their first showing aren't going to be much of an opposition (sadly) but we need to make sure the combinations get more time together. Much like how the warm-up game against Tonga turned out, this will be a contested training run. So why not give the top team another run together to keep working on the combinations especially in the key areas:
The dual pivot
Centre combination
With that said, I think Ardie needs a rest, he's been a 1 man army throughout the Super Season and for the AB's. Swap in either Frizzel or Todd and things shouldn't be upset too much. But Ardie starts against Italy and then on wards into the knock out rounds.
The Mo'unga and Barrett dual pivot role, I can only see it getting more effective the longer they play and with this strategy as I've suggested, this gives them two more matches allowing them time to read and work off each other, build the understanding and teamwork.
After the last few games and especially the Bok's game, the biggest question that remains has to be, what does our centre pairing look like going into the knock out round.
IMHO, based on form over the whole year, ALB is now our premier 12/13 depending on partner. As far as I am concerned, ALB has to be in the starting line up. So who to partner him?
As much as it seems almost alien to me, not a huge SBW fan to be honest, I think it has to be either SBW starts, especially against North Hemisphere teams, with Crotty on the bench, or Crotty starts and SBW is on the bench.
Obviously this leaves Goodhue on the outer and in my honest opinion, whilst he was awesome in his breakout year, the past 12 months he's been rather quiet, solid but not spectacular. I know this opinion won't be well accepted by the cantabrians but oh well.
As for the back 3, I'm not sold on Reece at all, I think his positional play and habit of rushing in or worse, going for the million 2 one intercept gives me major doubts. I do think that Bridge looks really comfortable, a natural at this level and should be retained. I then think it's a choice of Rieko or Ben from Accounts in place of Reece.
That said, it's gotta be Rieko right, with Ben on the bench? Or the other way around? Oh, that's right, Ben gives a lot more options on the bench and therefore, Rieko starts and Ben is on the bench. That way we are covered across the board.
It was said on the TV news last night that 2 separate AB teams are training as preparation for the Canada and Namibia games. Hansen and co will have mapped out which players are involved in each game. I agree about resting Ardie, Whitelock is another who should be on limited minutes.
@Bovidae said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):
It was said on the TV news last night that 2 separate AB teams are training as preparation for the Canada and Namibia games. Hansen and co will have mapped out which players are involved in each game. I agree about resting Ardie, Whitelock is another who should be on limited minutes.
Good point @Bovidae Whitelock is another who has had a huge number of minutes this year and needs a break.
When we have three players who can easily take some minutes at lock - Tuipulotu, Barrett and Frizell.
And if BBBR can get onto the park for a pool game, all the better!!!
Fuck yes, I'm getting excited. I honestly think compared to other RWC's, we have a pretty clear way forward baring major injuries. But then our depth, well that's what separates us from the pack right!
@taniwharugby That makes sense, and the rugby journos all think most of the top XV won't play against Canada. There will have to be some players involved in both of the next 2 games, whether starting or on the bench.
Looking at the intervals between games:
SA to Canada -> 11 days
Canada to Namibia -> 4 days
Namibia to Italy -> 6 days
Italy to QF -> 7 days
Even for the team that played SA there will be 2-week gap between games. I reckon some inter-squad games might be happening again.
After the towelling Canada got at the hands of Italy, this is going to be complete demolition. They dropped a lot of ball against the Azzuri, but they could not deal with the linespeed of Italy, so they're no hope against the midweek ABs who want a crack at the big games.
Fucking tough pool for the beaver retrievers.
@Bovidae said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):
@taniwharugby That makes sense, and the rugby journos all think most of the top XV won't play against Canada. There will have to be some players involved in both of the next 2 games, whether starting or on the bench.
Looking at the intervals between games:
SA to Canada -> 11 days
Canada to Namibia -> 4 days
Namibia to Italy -> 6 days
Italy to QF -> 7 daysEven for the team that played SA there will be 2-week gap between games. I reckon some inter-squad games might be happening again.
With all due respect, I think it is the other way around, play the first team against Canada and then Italy, giving plenty of rest balanced with game time.
The 2nd string team plays against Namibia which has a much shorter turnaround.
That way the top combinations have more time for work ons.
In this scenario, Namibia unfortunately ends up being the placeholders but based on the draw and the win against the Boks, there isn't any other way IMHO
@RoninWC said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):
With all due respect, I think it is the other way around, play the first team against Canada and then Italy, giving plenty of rest balanced with game time.
The 2nd string team plays against Namibia which has a much shorter turnaround.
That way the top combinations have more time for work ons.
In this scenario, Namibia unfortunately ends up being the placeholders but based on the draw and the win against the Boks, there isn't any other way IMHO
There will be pros and cons for each option. Excluding BBBR, the likes of Ioane and Goodhue will need to play sooner rather than later. They last played in Perth on Aug 10, 7 weeks and counting.
Edit: Rieko might have played for Auckland after that - not 100% sure.
Minutes played...
Moody 50/ Tu'ungafasi 30
Coles 40/ Taylor 40
Laulala 50/ Ta'avao 30
Whitelock 80
Barrett 75
Tuipulotu 40
Savea 80
Cane 40
Read 80
Frizell 5
Smith 61 / Perenara 19
Mo'unga 66
G. C. Bridge 80
R. S. Crotty 50 / SBW 30
A. R. Lienert-Brown 80
S. L. Reece 80
B. J. Barrett 80
B Smith 14
Jordie Barrett 0
Ioane 0
Goodhue 0
Weber 0
Todd 0
Retallick 0
Coltman 0
Moli 0
Can make up the team from that if everyone gets a run in the first 2 games
