@shark those are outstanding numbers over a 12 year period. What the fuck does the guy have to do to get some much deserved recognition for what he’s achieved?
You could pick any bowler that has ever played a test and lay claims to why they’re shit and why their stats don’t tell the whole picture.
Jog on pal.
@shark Selective incidents can allow one to make a claim that Hadlee was a shit bowler at one period because in one test he took no wickets because Chatfield, Cairns and Coney took all of them. Yes there is a difference in batting quality between top order and tail enders but these days being able to polish off the tail quickly/and or cheaply is a lot harder than it was - Wagner picks up an awful lot of lower order wickets but we don't criticise him for not knocking off the top order in droves more regularly.
@Godder said in Other Cricket 2020:
@shark said in Other Cricket 2020:
@Godder said in Other Cricket 2020:
I'd say that's more of an issue that Southee isn't an opening bowler, but he might be good for mopping up the tail.
You're not suggesting he could be selected on that basis?
Someone's got to clean them up, otherwise that's how you get McGrath making a test 50 against us.
Southee hasn't played every test - what are the equivalent figures like for Boult and any other opening bowlers we've tried?
That's like saying a batsman who makes decent scores in lost cause innings should be selected because of that ability.
@Gunner said in Other Cricket 2020:
@shark those are outstanding numbers over a 12 year period. What the fuck does the guy have to do to get some much deserved recognition for what he’s achieved?
You could pick any bowler that has ever played a test and lay claims to why they’re shit and why their stats don’t tell the whole picture.
Jog on pal.
He barely averages under 30, FFS. Open your blinkers: Southee is servicable but he isn't, and never has been, a genuine stike bowler. In 136 bowling innings he's taken five wickets or more just ten times. One ten-for in his entire career. It'd be interesting to see who those hauls were against, and the match results. And that's the good stuff.
The really negative stuff is his batting, which has attracted plenty of attention over the years and has had enough criticism already. I don't need to add to it, suffice to say Blind Freddie knows he's one of the most selfish and careless batsmen NZ has ever seen. Luckily, he's not there for that.
And the real nadir of his career are the various rumours that have followed him around. From his tour behaviour, specifically his reputation as an icorrigible 'swordsman' - by all accounts on par with the kind of behaviour which saw opening batsman Matthew Elliott axed from the Australian team after an Ashes tour in the 90s - to the rumour that he made himself unavailable for the third test in Sydney earlier this year after being told Tom Latham would be the skipper. The former apparently created a division in the team between those who thought his prolific rooting was ok, and those who felt it was wrong or potentially reputationally damaging for the NZ team.
@SynicBast said in Other Cricket 2020:
@shark Selective incidents can allow one to make a claim that Hadlee was a shit bowler at one period because in one test he took no wickets because Chatfield, Cairns and Coney took all of them. Yes there is a difference in batting quality between top order and tail enders but these days being able to polish off the tail quickly/and or cheaply is a lot harder than it was - Wagner picks up an awful lot of lower order wickets but we don't criticise him for not knocking off the top order in droves more regularly.
Wagner isn't an opening bowler.
@shark said in Other Cricket 2020:
Wagner isn't an opening bowler.
Wagner's a legend
I feel compelled to post something like this every time the name of one of my all time favourite cricketers comes up. I really wonder if he would have had a run at Test level if he played in SA - I suspect not given their rich depth of talent.
@shark said in Other Cricket 2020:
@Gunner said in Other Cricket 2020:
@shark those are outstanding numbers over a 12 year period. What the fuck does the guy have to do to get some much deserved recognition for what he’s achieved?
You could pick any bowler that has ever played a test and lay claims to why they’re shit and why their stats don’t tell the whole picture.
Jog on pal.
He barely averages under 30, FFS. Open your blinkers: Southee is servicable but he isn't, and never has been, a genuine stike bowler. In 136 bowling innings he's taken five wickets or more just ten times. One ten-for in his entire career. It'd be interesting to see who those hauls were against, and the match results. And that's the good stuff.
The really negative stuff is his batting, which has attracted plenty of attention over the years and has had enough criticism already. I don't need to add to it, suffice to say Blind Freddie knows he's one of the most selfish and careless batsmen NZ has ever seen. Luckily, he's not there for that.
And the real nadir of his career are the various rumours that have followed him around. From his tour behaviour, specifically his reputation as an icorrigible 'swordsman' - by all accounts on par with the kind of behaviour which saw opening batsman Matthew Elliott axed from the Australian team after an Ashes tour in the 90s - to the rumour that he made himself unavailable for the third test in Sydney earlier this year after being told Tom Latham would be the skipper. The former apparently created a division in the team between those who thought his prolific rooting was ok, and those who felt it was wrong or potentially reputationally damaging for the NZ team.
So we're heaping scorn on players for inappropriate sexual behaviour now ?
Shit, someone better let Shane Warne know his status as a cricketing legend has been revoked.
@shark said in Other Cricket 2020:
@MN5 Gunner seems to think Southee is beyond reproach. He's not. I'm just balancing the argument.
How is it up there on that high horse?
@shark said in Other Cricket 2020:
He barely averages under 30, FFS. Open your blinkers: Southee is servicable but he isn't, and never has been, a genuine stike bowler.
He's Simon Doull, basically. Good in swinging conditions, but otherwise middle of the road. Not bad by any stretch, but firmly in the solid journeyman category.
Interestingly, though, only slightly worse than Jimmy Anderson (who has longevity on his side for sure).
Possibly a nickname/sledge that's been around for ages, but I saw one of the Aussie Facebook cricket pages referring to "Jimmy Clouderson" for the first time last week. Overly harsh, but they take no prisoners across the ditch.
I'm not a noted fan of Southee. But I'm still shaking my head at opening the bowling at the SCG with Henry and CdG in our first ever Test match back there since 1683...
remember at the start of his career, when Jimmy Anderson was pretty average? It seemed the only guy he got wickets against was us. He got better and better though. His seam release is almost perfect these days, what a swing bowler.
@mariner4life He's someone who'll be appreciated more when he retires. Prboably the best swing bowler the game has ever seen, both with the duke and kookaburra.
@African-Monkey said in Other Cricket 2020:
@mariner4life He's someone who'll be appreciated more when he retires. Prboably the best swing bowler the game has ever seen, both with the duke and kookaburra.
I'll take Wasim Akram
@mariner4life said in Other Cricket 2020:
@African-Monkey said in Other Cricket 2020:
@mariner4life He's someone who'll be appreciated more when he retires. Prboably the best swing bowler the game has ever seen, both with the duke and kookaburra.
I'll take Wasim Akram
Bloody hell, I still have nightmares of sitting on the couch in the mid 90s when NZ were chasing a hundred odd to win and him and Waqar got five each. What a pair they were.
@MN5 said in Other Cricket 2020:
@mariner4life said in Other Cricket 2020:
@African-Monkey said in Other Cricket 2020:
@mariner4life He's someone who'll be appreciated more when he retires. Prboably the best swing bowler the game has ever seen, both with the duke and kookaburra.
I'll take Wasim Akram
Bloody hell, I still have nightmares of sitting on the couch in the mid 90s when NZ were chasing a hundred odd to win and him and Waqar got five each. What a pair they were.
felt like they came every summer for a while, to get a hundred wickets each.
@mariner4life said in Other Cricket 2020:
@MN5 said in Other Cricket 2020:
@mariner4life said in Other Cricket 2020:
@African-Monkey said in Other Cricket 2020:
@mariner4life He's someone who'll be appreciated more when he retires. Prboably the best swing bowler the game has ever seen, both with the duke and kookaburra.
I'll take Wasim Akram
Bloody hell, I still have nightmares of sitting on the couch in the mid 90s when NZ were chasing a hundred odd to win and him and Waqar got five each. What a pair they were.
felt like they came every summer for a while, to get a hundred wickets each.
Regularly taking such mighty scalps as Rod Latham, Shane Thomson, Ken Rutherford and the two Blairs.......( MN5 shudders at the state of NZ cricket in the mid 90s )
@MN5 said in Other Cricket 2020:
@mariner4life said in Other Cricket 2020:
I'll take Wasim Akram
Bloody hell, I still have nightmares of sitting on the couch in the mid 90s when NZ were chasing a hundred odd to win and him and Waqar got five each. What a pair they were.
So how do you think those of us at Seddon Park felt? 
Wasim is my favourite fast bowler.
@mariner4life Yeah, no comeback there, I conveniently forgot about him.
@African-Monkey said in Other Cricket 2020:
@mariner4life Yeah, no comeback there, I conveniently forgot about him.
most batsmen from the 90s would like to do the same
@Gunner said in Other Cricket 2020:
@shark said in Other Cricket 2020:
@MN5 Gunner seems to think Southee is beyond reproach. He's not. I'm just balancing the argument.
How is it up there on that high horse?
Good, Tim's Dad.
@Bovidae said in Other Cricket 2020:
@MN5 said in Other Cricket 2020:
@mariner4life said in Other Cricket 2020:
I'll take Wasim Akram
Bloody hell, I still have nightmares of sitting on the couch in the mid 90s when NZ were chasing a hundred odd to win and him and Waqar got five each. What a pair they were.
So how do you think those of us at Seddon Park felt?
Wasim is my favourite fast bowler.
guaranteed nightmare test for me...i still get queasy about that last innings.
Womens cricket is pretty rubbish viewing. If they think putting womens cricket on TV will bring eyeballs.. he is kidding himself. The product just isnt good.
""We're very, very focused on making sure we've had a very strong lineup of women's content on Spark Sport because we think that's a terrific opportunity."
Happy to let ratings decide? Yeah I bet not.
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Other Cricket 2020:
Womens cricket is pretty rubbish viewing. If they think putting womens cricket on TV will bring eyeballs.. he is kidding himself. The product just isnt good.
""We're very, very focused on making sure we've had a very strong lineup of women's content on Spark Sport because we think that's a terrific opportunity."
Happy to let ratings decide? Yeah I bet not.
If it was the only cricket/sprt on, I would watch it in a heartbeat. Would even pay for Sky Sports again
@Hooroo said in Other Cricket 2020:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Other Cricket 2020:
Womens cricket is pretty rubbish viewing. If they think putting womens cricket on TV will bring eyeballs.. he is kidding himself. The product just isnt good.
""We're very, very focused on making sure we've had a very strong lineup of women's content on Spark Sport because we think that's a terrific opportunity."
Happy to let ratings decide? Yeah I bet not.
If it was the only cricket/sprt on, I would watch it in a heartbeat. Would even pay for Sky Sports again
You realize they arent talking live cricket during the covid timeframe? You would watch competitive marbles at the moment.
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Other Cricket 2020:
@Hooroo said in Other Cricket 2020:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Other Cricket 2020:
Womens cricket is pretty rubbish viewing. If they think putting womens cricket on TV will bring eyeballs.. he is kidding himself. The product just isnt good.
""We're very, very focused on making sure we've had a very strong lineup of women's content on Spark Sport because we think that's a terrific opportunity."
Happy to let ratings decide? Yeah I bet not.
If it was the only cricket/sprt on, I would watch it in a heartbeat. Would even pay for Sky Sports again
Yo do realize they arent talking live cricket dont you? You would watch competitive marbles at the moment.
It's womens cricket, of course I didn't read the article, man!!
OK, that is a big no from me then. I assumed it was about live cricket.
@SynicBast said in Other Cricket 2020:
@Bovidae said in Other Cricket 2020:
@MN5 said in Other Cricket 2020:
@mariner4life said in Other Cricket 2020:
I'll take Wasim Akram
Bloody hell, I still have nightmares of sitting on the couch in the mid 90s when NZ were chasing a hundred odd to win and him and Waqar got five each. What a pair they were.
So how do you think those of us at Seddon Park felt?
Wasim is my favourite fast bowler.
guaranteed nightmare test for me...i still get queasy about that last innings.
They really did seem to visit every summer from memory......those were the days....now we alternate between powerhouses like Bangladesh and Sri Lanka ( minus Sangakara and Jayawardne )
1 month later
Not sure where to put this, but anyone else watching the BeIN Sports Cricket’s Greatest XI series. Hadn’t seen them. Pretty well put together.
1-Gavaskar
2-Gooch
3-Bradman
4-Tendulkar
5-Sobers
6-Kallis
7-Gilchrist
8-Khan
9-Warne
10-Akram
11-Holding
@ACT-Crusader without Willey there, then it gets even worse with "The bowler's Holding the batsman's Gooch" huh.
@ACT-Crusader said in Other Cricket 2020:
Not sure where to put this, but anyone else watching the BeIN Sports Cricket’s Greatest XI series. Hadn’t seen them. Pretty well put together.
1-Gavaskar
2-Gooch
3-Bradman
4-Tendulkar
5-Sobers
6-Kallis
7-Gilchrist
8-Khan
9-Warne
10-Akram
11-Holding
Shit team
@mariner4life six bowlers and a wicket keeper batsman. Unbalanced as a team no matter how exceptional the players
@nzzp said in Other Cricket 2020:
@mariner4life six bowlers and a wicket keeper batsman. Unbalanced as a team no matter how exceptional the players
It’s not my team but when you look at those first 8 names, they all know how to score test runs. Also taking 20 wickets is king in test cricket....
@ACT-Crusader said in Other Cricket 2020:
Not sure where to put this, but anyone else watching the BeIN Sports Cricket’s Greatest XI series. Hadn’t seen them. Pretty well put together.
1-Gavaskar
2-Gooch
3-Bradman
4-Tendulkar
5-Sobers
6-Kallis
7-Gilchrist
8-Khan
9-Warne
10-Akram
11-Holding
Gooch stands out like dogs balls much as I did admire him. Marshall would get in ahead of Holding too.
@MN5 said in Other Cricket 2020:
@ACT-Crusader said in Other Cricket 2020:
Not sure where to put this, but anyone else watching the BeIN Sports Cricket’s Greatest XI series. Hadn’t seen them. Pretty well put together.
1-Gavaskar
2-Gooch
3-Bradman
4-Tendulkar
5-Sobers
6-Kallis
7-Gilchrist
8-Khan
9-Warne
10-Akram
11-HoldingGooch stands out like dogs balls much as I did admire him. Marshall would get in ahead of Holding too.
I'd go for one of Bradman's contemporaries in Bill Ponsford over Gooch everytime.
@SynicBast said in Other Cricket 2020:
@MN5 said in Other Cricket 2020:
@ACT-Crusader said in Other Cricket 2020:
Not sure where to put this, but anyone else watching the BeIN Sports Cricket’s Greatest XI series. Hadn’t seen them. Pretty well put together.
1-Gavaskar
2-Gooch
3-Bradman
4-Tendulkar
5-Sobers
6-Kallis
7-Gilchrist
8-Khan
9-Warne
10-Akram
11-HoldingGooch stands out like dogs balls much as I did admire him. Marshall would get in ahead of Holding too.
I'd go for one of Bradman's contemporaries in Bill Ponsford over Gooch everytime.
Well yeah, I mean he had a very good record for the era he played in, he was definitely a personal favourite in the day ( an average of 42 vs some of the best fast bowlers ever is something to be proud of ) but others have more of a claim I would have thought.
Still, there's only one other opener in the top 10 run scorers who averaged over 50 so perhaps he's not as left field as I initially thought ?
Average in the case of an opener is actually a telling statistic as is conversion rate and balls faced.
@SynicBast said in Other Cricket 2020:
Average in the case of an opener is actually a telling statistic
Yeah more so than other positions, but who they play their cricket for is important too given that %50 ish of their matches will be in home conditions. Morning on day one in England is probably a bit more difficult than day one in India. Day 5 India is a different thing with a turning ball but the openers may not bat that day.
@Snowy said in Other Cricket 2020:
@SynicBast said in Other Cricket 2020:
Average in the case of an opener is actually a telling statistic
Yeah more so than other positions, but who they play their cricket for is important too given that %50 ish of their matches will be in home conditions. Morning on day one in England is probably a bit more difficult than day one in India. Day 5 India is a different thing with a turning ball but the openers may not bat that day.
As an opener there's also statistically far less chance of getting cheeky not outs to pad the average that other batsmen get. Not taking anything away from them as they're all legends of the game but Kallis, Chanderpaul, S Waugh and Border all got heaps ( over 40 ) to help get the numbers up.
That being said I often reckon Matthew Hayden doesn't quite get the respect he might deserve given he had a bit of a flat track bully reputation.
