All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test

@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

Yep, Havili is a jack of all trades master of none. He's not really good enough in any of the positions individually,

Come on man. I get everyone likes to pile in on Dave because he ended last season pretty shabbily - but that's just not true.

A few seasons ago he was the best fullback in super rugby... for the winning side. Last year he was the best 12 in the country, but ended up not working out for the ABs towards the end.

Who's to say he couldn't have done exactly the same role Tupaea did on Saturday? New game plan and all...

He's got some excellent attributes and if we can find a way to have him shine like he does for the saders then it could be great for the ABs. His vision and distribution is brilliant.

who are you and what have you done with Bones?

Bonesetta knows her rugby.

He must be in the shitter and left his laptop open.

@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

Havili seems to have taken the main brunt of the ABs failing at the end of the season last year while others have been more "teflon-like" in regards to fan dissatisfaction. QT didn't fire a shot at the end of last season either. Havili has shown he is a quality 2nd five at the beginning of 2021 test season and in the final stages of 2022 SR where he was the complete package.
I am not sure he is the best in combination with BB though.......

Yeah, it's kinda strange how Tupaea is all of a sudden to the manor born, after playing well against a crumbling Ireland, but DH is dismissed because he was only good against Aus.. Yet QT amounted to sweet fuck all last year too. I'm pretty confident even Bridge would have looked a star last week.

@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

The question is do we see Havs as our 12 come WC, clearly the Fern does not think so. QT, ALB, RTS, Goodhue are better options and should be getting the time there. I am slightly more concerned about 13 at the moment as RI is turning into Aaron Smith in that there is daylight between him and the next player. They missed a trick not bringing Sullivan into the squad IMO.

They’ve got Goodhue in the squad as a midfield option.

Ioane is still only 25 so has years of rugby ahead of him. The more game time the better in my view. The odd rest here or there, but if we get 103 tests out of him like Nugget, then that is a very good thing for AB rugby.

I may not have expressed my concern properly, I am very happy with RI but what happens if he gets injured. My concern is his backup. Remember the 2003 WC when Tana got injured, didn't they use Panadol or someone else and it was a bit of a disaster?

I guess they do have ALB that I am forgetting is a good 13.

@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

Havili seems to have taken the main brunt of the ABs failing at the end of the season last year while others have been more "teflon-like" in regards to fan dissatisfaction. QT didn't fire a shot at the end of last season either. Havili has shown he is a quality 2nd five at the beginning of 2021 test season and in the final stages of 2022 SR where he was the complete package.
I am not sure he is the best in combination with BB though.......

Yeah, it's kinda strange how Tupaea is all of a sudden to the manor born, after playing well against a crumbling Ireland, but DH is dismissed because he was only good against Aus.. Yet QT amounted to sweet fuck all last year too. I'm pretty confident even Bridge would have looked a star last week.

Steady on

Nice little rant Bones but missing a heap

DH was only one of many to cop a shitload of heat after last year

No one says QT looks to the manor born, but the simple fact is, his last test is better than DH's last test.

But you know, your contrarian streak needs to shine

@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

Nice little rant Bones but missing a heap

DH was only one of many to cop a shitload of heat after last year

No one says QT looks to the manor born, but the simple fact is, his last test is better than DH's last test.

But you know, your contrarian streak needs to shine

Cool

Tops reply as usual

@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

Tops reply as usual

Yeah because it's worth it eh, what with me just being contrarian. It was a cool post man.

@Bones Christ, bitch mode once again. Calm down.

@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Tim be annoyed if they drop Tupaea for Havili, Tupaea earned another chance to start, Havili offers versatility so is actually a good option off the bench.

Would love to see RTS in there somewhere.

Iv3 got no idea which of the two is better , jury still out for me ,

But don’t mind at all having another look at Quinn and reiko together

@booboo said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Tim be annoyed if they drop Tupaea for Havili, Tupaea earned another chance to start, Havili offers versatility so is actually a good option off the bench.

Would love to see RTS in there somewhere.

He may be better off in the All Black XV if they don't want to give him any minutes in this series or the Rugby Championship. The fact they brought in the hopeless Ennor tells me they don't have too much faith in him yet which is a bummer, he could not have done any worse than Ennor.

@Tim said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Bones Christ, bitch mode once again. Calm down.

WTF? Get off the beers bro. No calming needed, I think that's you fella.

@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

Havili seems to have taken the main brunt of the ABs failing at the end of the season last year while others have been more "teflon-like" in regards to fan dissatisfaction. QT didn't fire a shot at the end of last season either. Havili has shown he is a quality 2nd five at the beginning of 2021 test season and in the final stages of 2022 SR where he was the complete package.
I am not sure he is the best in combination with BB though.......

Yeah, it's kinda strange how Tupaea is all of a sudden to the manor born, after playing well against a crumbling Ireland, but DH is dismissed because he was only good against Aus.. Yet QT amounted to sweet fuck all last year too. I'm pretty confident even Bridge would have looked a star last week.

Wrong, RTS is to the manor born, and come the RWC he'll be a lock at 12 partnering Rieko. In the meantime QT offers a lot more than anyone else.

@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

Havili seems to have taken the main brunt of the ABs failing at the end of the season last year while others have been more "teflon-like" in regards to fan dissatisfaction. QT didn't fire a shot at the end of last season either. Havili has shown he is a quality 2nd five at the beginning of 2021 test season and in the final stages of 2022 SR where he was the complete package.
I am not sure he is the best in combination with BB though.......

Yeah, it's kinda strange how Tupaea is all of a sudden to the manor born, after playing well against a crumbling Ireland, but DH is dismissed because he was only good against Aus.. Yet QT amounted to sweet fuck all last year too. I'm pretty confident even Bridge would have looked a star last week.

Wrong, RTS is to the manor born, and come the RWC he'll be a lock at 12 partnering Rieko. In the meantime QT offers a lot more than anyone else.

That's a bit like saying SB offers a lot more at 6 than anyone else.

@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@booboo said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Tim be annoyed if they drop Tupaea for Havili, Tupaea earned another chance to start, Havili offers versatility so is actually a good option off the bench.

Would love to see RTS in there somewhere.

He may be better off in the All Black XV if they don't want to give him any minutes in this series or the Rugby Championship. The fact they brought in the hopeless Ennor tells me they don't have too much faith in him yet which is a bummer, he could not have done any worse than Ennor.

I’m hoping that Ennor’s performance has finally convinced them that his ceiling is Super.

@Crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@booboo said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Tim be annoyed if they drop Tupaea for Havili, Tupaea earned another chance to start, Havili offers versatility so is actually a good option off the bench.

Would love to see RTS in there somewhere.

He may be better off in the All Black XV if they don't want to give him any minutes in this series or the Rugby Championship. The fact they brought in the hopeless Ennor tells me they don't have too much faith in him yet which is a bummer, he could not have done any worse than Ennor.

I’m hoping that Ennor’s performance has finally convinced them that his ceiling is Super.

I'd love to see him move back to the wing.

@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

Havili seems to have taken the main brunt of the ABs failing at the end of the season last year while others have been more "teflon-like" in regards to fan dissatisfaction. QT didn't fire a shot at the end of last season either. Havili has shown he is a quality 2nd five at the beginning of 2021 test season and in the final stages of 2022 SR where he was the complete package.
I am not sure he is the best in combination with BB though.......

Yeah, it's kinda strange how Tupaea is all of a sudden to the manor born, after playing well against a crumbling Ireland, but DH is dismissed because he was only good against Aus.. Yet QT amounted to sweet fuck all last year too. I'm pretty confident even Bridge would have looked a star last week.

Wrong, RTS is to the manor born, and come the RWC he'll be a lock at 12 partnering Rieko. In the meantime QT offers a lot more than anyone else.

That's a bit like saying SB offers a lot more at 6 than anyone else.

SB offers a lot more than Brodie at lock, which is not something I ever thought I'd say

@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

Havili seems to have taken the main brunt of the ABs failing at the end of the season last year while others have been more "teflon-like" in regards to fan dissatisfaction. QT didn't fire a shot at the end of last season either. Havili has shown he is a quality 2nd five at the beginning of 2021 test season and in the final stages of 2022 SR where he was the complete package.
I am not sure he is the best in combination with BB though.......

Yeah, it's kinda strange how Tupaea is all of a sudden to the manor born, after playing well against a crumbling Ireland, but DH is dismissed because he was only good against Aus.. Yet QT amounted to sweet fuck all last year too. I'm pretty confident even Bridge would have looked a star last week.

Wrong, RTS is to the manor born, and come the RWC he'll be a lock at 12 partnering Rieko. In the meantime QT offers a lot more than anyone else.

That's a bit like saying SB offers a lot more at 6 than anyone else.

SB offers a lot more than Brodie at lock, which is not something I ever thought I'd say

Where the fuck did those goal posts go!

@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@booboo said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Tim be annoyed if they drop Tupaea for Havili, Tupaea earned another chance to start, Havili offers versatility so is actually a good option off the bench.

Would love to see RTS in there somewhere.

He may be better off in the All Black XV if they don't want to give him any minutes in this series or the Rugby Championship. The fact they brought in the hopeless Ennor tells me they don't have too much faith in him yet which is a bummer, he could not have done any worse than Ennor.

I’m hoping that Ennor’s performance has finally convinced them that his ceiling is Super.

I'd love to see him move back to the wing.

Why? So he can miss tackles and drop the ball a bit wider out?

@Crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@booboo said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Tim be annoyed if they drop Tupaea for Havili, Tupaea earned another chance to start, Havili offers versatility so is actually a good option off the bench.

Would love to see RTS in there somewhere.

He may be better off in the All Black XV if they don't want to give him any minutes in this series or the Rugby Championship. The fact they brought in the hopeless Ennor tells me they don't have too much faith in him yet which is a bummer, he could not have done any worse than Ennor.

I’m hoping that Ennor’s performance has finally convinced them that his ceiling is Super.

I'd love to see him move back to the wing.

Why? So he can miss tackles and drop the ball a bit wider out?

He was a bloody good winger. Moving him to centre has "ruined his career".

@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@booboo said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Tim be annoyed if they drop Tupaea for Havili, Tupaea earned another chance to start, Havili offers versatility so is actually a good option off the bench.

Would love to see RTS in there somewhere.

He may be better off in the All Black XV if they don't want to give him any minutes in this series or the Rugby Championship. The fact they brought in the hopeless Ennor tells me they don't have too much faith in him yet which is a bummer, he could not have done any worse than Ennor.

I’m hoping that Ennor’s performance has finally convinced them that his ceiling is Super.

I'd love to see him move back to the wing.

One space further out than wing would be ideal.

@Frank said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@booboo said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Tim be annoyed if they drop Tupaea for Havili, Tupaea earned another chance to start, Havili offers versatility so is actually a good option off the bench.

Would love to see RTS in there somewhere.

He may be better off in the All Black XV if they don't want to give him any minutes in this series or the Rugby Championship. The fact they brought in the hopeless Ennor tells me they don't have too much faith in him yet which is a bummer, he could not have done any worse than Ennor.

I’m hoping that Ennor’s performance has finally convinced them that his ceiling is Super.

I'd love to see him move back to the wing.

One space further out than wing would be ideal.

Didn't know you cared so much about the saders Frank.

Ennor actually looked pretty promising on the wing for a while there. Shifting him around hasn't helped him

@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@booboo said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Tim be annoyed if they drop Tupaea for Havili, Tupaea earned another chance to start, Havili offers versatility so is actually a good option off the bench.

Would love to see RTS in there somewhere.

He may be better off in the All Black XV if they don't want to give him any minutes in this series or the Rugby Championship. The fact they brought in the hopeless Ennor tells me they don't have too much faith in him yet which is a bummer, he could not have done any worse than Ennor.

I’m hoping that Ennor’s performance has finally convinced them that his ceiling is Super.

I'd love to see him move back to the wing.

Why? So he can miss tackles and drop the ball a bit wider out?

He was a bloody good winger. Moving him to centre has "ruined his career".

Didn’t he start at centre (below international level)?

@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

Ennor actually looked pretty promising on the wing for a while there. Shifting him around hasn't helped him

Don't be bitchy and contrarian now.

@Crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@booboo said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Tim be annoyed if they drop Tupaea for Havili, Tupaea earned another chance to start, Havili offers versatility so is actually a good option off the bench.

Would love to see RTS in there somewhere.

He may be better off in the All Black XV if they don't want to give him any minutes in this series or the Rugby Championship. The fact they brought in the hopeless Ennor tells me they don't have too much faith in him yet which is a bummer, he could not have done any worse than Ennor.

I’m hoping that Ennor’s performance has finally convinced them that his ceiling is Super.

I'd love to see him move back to the wing.

Why? So he can miss tackles and drop the ball a bit wider out?

He was a bloody good winger. Moving him to centre has "ruined his career".

Didn’t he start at centre (below international level)?

I only recall him as an excellent wing for the Crusaders.

Can't complain about the results but I was hoping Razor would play Leicester at centre and Ennor at wing rather than visca versca.

@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@booboo said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Tim be annoyed if they drop Tupaea for Havili, Tupaea earned another chance to start, Havili offers versatility so is actually a good option off the bench.

Would love to see RTS in there somewhere.

He may be better off in the All Black XV if they don't want to give him any minutes in this series or the Rugby Championship. The fact they brought in the hopeless Ennor tells me they don't have too much faith in him yet which is a bummer, he could not have done any worse than Ennor.

I’m hoping that Ennor’s performance has finally convinced them that his ceiling is Super.

I'd love to see him move back to the wing.

Why? So he can miss tackles and drop the ball a bit wider out?

He was a bloody good winger. Moving him to centre has "ruined his career".

Didn’t he start at centre (below international level)?

I only recall him as an excellent wing for the Crusaders.

When he first appeared he made a couple of breaks from centre and was anointed a great prospect.
One of the one eyed crew should remember

@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

Can't complain about the results but I was hoping Razor would play Leicester at centre and Ennor at wing rather than visca versca.

Both Razor and the AB coaches seemed to have it that way eh, was really puzzling as to what us observers were missing there.

My point about both Havili and Mo'unga is that they don't handle the physical teams well, and come RWC time most teams gameplan against us is to try and bash us into submission. Those two starting would be cannon fodder. Players like Beauden, Goodhue, Tupaea and RTS are much better equipped to deal with that.

@Crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@booboo said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Tim be annoyed if they drop Tupaea for Havili, Tupaea earned another chance to start, Havili offers versatility so is actually a good option off the bench.

Would love to see RTS in there somewhere.

He may be better off in the All Black XV if they don't want to give him any minutes in this series or the Rugby Championship. The fact they brought in the hopeless Ennor tells me they don't have too much faith in him yet which is a bummer, he could not have done any worse than Ennor.

I’m hoping that Ennor’s performance has finally convinced them that his ceiling is Super.

I'd love to see him move back to the wing.

Why? So he can miss tackles and drop the ball a bit wider out?

He was a bloody good winger. Moving him to centre has "ruined his career".

Didn’t he start at centre (below international level)?

I only recall him as an excellent wing for the Crusaders.

When he first appeared he made a couple of breaks from centre and was anointed a great prospect.
One of the one eyed crew should remember

Pretty sure he was a wing - think he even covered fullback?

@No-Quarter Like RTS in the final of SR? And that is the only evidence we have......

@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

My point about both Havili and Mo'unga is that they don't handle the physical teams well, and come RWC time most teams gameplan against us is to try and bash us into submission. Those two starting would be cannon fodder. Players like Beauden, Goodhue, Tupaea and RTS are much better equipped to deal with that.

NQ - you seem to have a terrible downer on Richie - rabbit in headlights, still needs Beaudy as training wheels, etc, etc.

I think he's vastly better than you give him credit for.

Beauden and RTS had a good opportunity to display their talents against a team bashing them into submission in the Soup final.

@Old-Samurai-Jack Snap!

@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

My point about both Havili and Mo'unga is that they don't handle the physical teams well, and come RWC time most teams gameplan against us is to try and bash us into submission. Those two starting would be cannon fodder. Players like Beauden, Goodhue, Tupaea and RTS are much better equipped to deal with that.

NQ - you seem to have a terrible downer on Richie - rabbit in headlights, still needs Beaudy as training wheels, etc, etc.

I think he's vastly better than you give him credit for.

Beauden and RTS had a good opportunity to display their talents against a team bashing them into submission in the Soup final.

Beauden outside his half - deadly. But his panicked moments that sprang up under pressure in his own half during SR were worrying. At least they're only confined to half the field I guess.

@Chris-B I'm down on Richie because every year he carves up in SR, and every year he can't translate to test rugby. The Adam Thomson of first fives.

RTS was fine in the final until he went off injured at half time.

And the Crusaders didn't bash the Blues into submission, they played a smart game controlling possession and territory in the rain to nulify the Blues strengths. As was mentioned a lot at the time, they are a very well coached team that sticks to their gameplan methodically.

@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@booboo said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Tim be annoyed if they drop Tupaea for Havili, Tupaea earned another chance to start, Havili offers versatility so is actually a good option off the bench.

Would love to see RTS in there somewhere.

He may be better off in the All Black XV if they don't want to give him any minutes in this series or the Rugby Championship. The fact they brought in the hopeless Ennor tells me they don't have too much faith in him yet which is a bummer, he could not have done any worse than Ennor.

I’m hoping that Ennor’s performance has finally convinced them that his ceiling is Super.

I'd love to see him move back to the wing.

Why? So he can miss tackles and drop the ball a bit wider out?

He was a bloody good winger. Moving him to centre has "ruined his career".

Didn’t he start at centre (below international level)?

I only recall him as an excellent wing for the Crusaders.

When he first appeared he made a couple of breaks from centre and was anointed a great prospect.
One of the one eyed crew should remember

Pretty sure he was a wing - think he even covered fullback?

@Crucial How is that meant to be read? Is 2018 saying he played 8 games as a sub, 8 as a centre then one on the wing?

I guess I only remember him from 2019. I had a quick look and saw he came on at fullback in the 2018 final then gave up.

@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Chris-B I'm down on Richie because every year he carves up in SR, and every year he can't translate to test rugby. The Adam Thomson of first fives.

RTS was fine in the final until he went off injured at half time.

And the Crusaders didn't bash the Blues into submission, they played a smart game controlling possession and territory in the rain to nulify the Blues strengths. As was mentioned a lot at the time, they are a very well coached team that sticks to their gameplan methodically.

The Adam Thomson of first fives