@Machpants said in Foster's Firsts.:
@nostrildamus said in Foster's Firsts.:
@Catogrande said in Foster's Firsts.:
First time NZ have not topped their group - or have I boobooed?
Has any team ever been unbeaten in their pool and still finished second in it?
No but teams have lost a game and still finished top
For example ...
First AB coach to lose a pool game and get to the semis.
First AB coach to lose a pool game and beat the world's no. 1 team in the knock-out stage
More importantly, first AB head coach to look slimmer than the other coaches...
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster's Firsts.:
First AB coach to lose a pool game and get to the semis.
First AB coach to lose a pool game and beat the world's no. 1 team in the knock-out stage
More importantly, first AB head coach to look slimmer than the other coaches...
Have you been drinking
@sparky said in Foster's Firsts.:
First AB coach to knock the Number 1 side in the World out of the World Cup.
Can do it twice if we beat SA/France in the final, if it goes that way
@sparky said in Foster's Firsts.:
First AB coach to knock the Number 1 side in the World out of the World Cup.
I believe Hanson did that in 2019?
Link here.
@gt12 No Ireland were ranked Number 1 going into the 2019 tournament but lost that when they lost to Japan in pool play. NZ were ranked number 1 in the world going into that QF.
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster's Firsts.:
First AB coach to lose a pool game and get to the semis.
First AB coach to lose a pool game and beat the world's no. 1 team in the knock-out stage
More importantly, first AB head coach to look slimmer than the other coaches...
That team issue shirt is not flattering ...
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster's Firsts.:
More importantly, first AB head coach to look slimmer than the other coaches...
slimmer than all of them? Or do you think Ryan has eaten Joe Schmidt?
Fuck this thread.
It’s a different world now and we could have been better over the years but we’re in the WC final.
Leave the fat bastard alone.
@MajorRage said in Foster's Firsts.:
Fuck this thread.
It’s a different world now and we could have been better over the years but we’re in the WC final.
Leave the fat bastard alone.
Who’s criticising Ryan?
@MajorRage said in Foster's Firsts.:
@Kirwan quite a few were roughly 6 weeks ago
Let me have my fat joke.
@Victor-Meldrew first AB coach to be named after a muppet, not just called a muppet
@taniwharugby said in Foster's Firsts.:
@Victor-Meldrew first AB coach to be named after a muppet, not just called a muppet
First Muppet to get to a RWC Final
@maroon said in Foster's Firsts.:
Has anyone seen Schmidt and Foster speak to, or even look at, each other? In the coaches box Foster always turns left for comment, with Ryan.
It is almost as if Schmidt has had enough of being subordinate to a weak fool.
Can’t wait for the memoir.
Well, you've been quiet recently...
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster's Firsts.:
First AB coach who looks shit in a shirt and tie
Steve Hansen says hold my pie
13 days later
The Stuff's final stat article, so long and good riddance. With a win rate inflated by smashing Island Nations during covid, and Ozzie at its lowest for years
When you break down Foster’s record, there were clear struggles against the other sides currently ranked in the top four, with losing head-to-heads against each of South Africa (3-4), Ireland (2-3) and France (0-2), for a meagre 38% return.
For me, I think Fozzie will go down as a "nearly" man.
He didn't need a lot more to go down as a good coach of the All Blacks. Arguably, he only needed Jordie to kick that penalty and we had our noses in front in a 14 on 14 game with 7 minutes left in a RWC Final. Us with momentum and, I think, more in the gas tank. He nearly got to ride into the sunset with his middle finger in the air. But, in the harsh light of day, he - and his players - did not get it done.
It finished, a bit the way it started. Fozzie's first game in charge was an unexpected draw vs Australia. The game where Rieko dropped the ball over the line, which likely would have seen us kick clear and win. The next week we beat them comfortably - 27-7 - but, Fozzie's reign had started on the wrong foot and he never quite managed to right it - until the RWC quarterfinal.
Along the way, a couple of somewhat (with all due respect) inexplicable losses to Argentina. Both times rapidly avenged by thumping them the following week, but the damage was done. A final 10 minutes capitulation to England. Games that could have pushed him towards the (somewhat unrealistic in this day and age) 80 percent pass mark All Black fans seem to demand. On the other hand, he needed a very friendly time-wasting call on Bernard Foley, not to lose one (and lose the RC) against Oz (though that game should have been put to bed much earlier).
Some mitigation on the first half of his tenure. The recruitment process where the various candidates had to apply as pre-formed coaching teams ("The Deans Legacy") was misguided, at best - dumb as fuck in reality. Closed off recruiting the best assistants left Fozzie with Plumtree, Mooar and McLeod and I think that was proven to be a fair way short of optimal. We definitely looked better with Schmidt and Ryan on board.
At the end of the day, Fozzie probably came up about 20 points short of a good tenure. If he'd won the World Cup, much would have been forgiven. If he'd won the Ireland series (2-1), we would have stomached dropping one at home. The two draws could and probably should have been won. And winning at least one of the Argentina losses.
Fine margins and all that. Nearly!
A lot of it was his own stubborn fault. Refusing to get better assistants as he would up skill them. Until change was forced on him by NZR, fucking lucky that Schmidt was available. Refusing to see players in their best position or the best player. Until forced by injury (jordie, front row, etc). Refusing too change the way they defended until over half way through his reign. Sticking with the flat spin it wide attack for far too long. We still had our shit kicking game which he never moved on from. Refusing to drop players. He was obviously popular, but fuck me he never, or was very slow, to learn his oft repeated learnings.
Too fucking stubborn to ever admit he got it wrong
@Chris-B There are winners and losers. Some people have it in them to win the biggest events, and some don't. Cane doesn't as a captain as we saw in the SR final and the RWC final.
Same with Foster, as Machpants said he's too stubborn and incompetent to recognise his mistakes and implement change. It's stupid to give these kind of people positions of power when all they know is failure. You have to select winners.
Its a shame too because I believe this was the cycle where we had the strongest chance of winning the RWC with still a few greats left in the team. Not sure if the player pool will be as strong going forward, only time will tell.
@Chris-B I think the final was probably a summary of the team under him in the past 4 years.
Poor discipline, lack of composure, poor decision making mixed with some excellent rugby, doing enough to win the game, but not quite finishing what was started.
@akan004 There's something in that - winners and losers - but, it doesn't always hold true. 2007 a case in point. Beaver in 2011.
I don't think Fozzie and Cane were fated to lose that final. We had an awful lot of people in our team who are proven winners. If you take Jordie, for instance - he potentially had the winning of the game in his hands. He didn't make the kick - but, a couple of weeks earlier, it's him who saves the day by holding up the Irishman (and maybe he did it earlier in this game as well? Him or Beaudy).
I certainly don't think we had the luck on the day - starting with the weather.
But, maybe with a different coach and captain we storm to the title. I think we had at least as much talent in our team as we had in 2011 - especially once Danny Boy went down.
It will certainly be interesting to see whether Razor's stardust ends up making Fozzie look like Toddy Blackadder.
And let’s not forget that most of those Foster firsts as coach were also Cane firsts as an AB captain…
@taniwharugby said in Foster's Firsts.:
@Chris-B I think the final was probably a summary of the team under him in the past 4 years.
Poor discipline, lack of composure, poor decision making mixed with some excellent rugby, doing enough to win the game, but not quite finishing what was started.
I think this is what is and has been so frustrating - this tournament showed that actually we did have the cattle (despite being told for years that we didn’t). I do think with better coaching over the previous 4 years the team would have won that match.
@junior said in Foster's Firsts.:
@taniwharugby said in Foster's Firsts.:
@Chris-B I think the final was probably a summary of the team under him in the past 4 years.
Poor discipline, lack of composure, poor decision making mixed with some excellent rugby, doing enough to win the game, but not quite finishing what was started.
I think this is what is and has been so frustrating - this tournament showed that actually we did have the cattle (despite being told for years that we didn’t). I do think with better coaching over the previous 4 years the team would have won that match.
Did we have the cattle? Or did the coach get a performance out of them greater than the sum of the parts?
@booboo said in Foster's Firsts.:
@junior said in Foster's Firsts.:
@taniwharugby said in Foster's Firsts.:
@Chris-B I think the final was probably a summary of the team under him in the past 4 years.
Poor discipline, lack of composure, poor decision making mixed with some excellent rugby, doing enough to win the game, but not quite finishing what was started.
I think this is what is and has been so frustrating - this tournament showed that actually we did have the cattle (despite being told for years that we didn’t). I do think with better coaching over the previous 4 years the team would have won that match.
Did we have the cattle? Or did the coach get a performance out of them greater than the sum of the parts?
You most definitely had and have the cattle
@booboo said in Foster's Firsts.:
@junior said in Foster's Firsts.:
@taniwharugby said in Foster's Firsts.:
@Chris-B I think the final was probably a summary of the team under him in the past 4 years.
Poor discipline, lack of composure, poor decision making mixed with some excellent rugby, doing enough to win the game, but not quite finishing what was started.
I think this is what is and has been so frustrating - this tournament showed that actually we did have the cattle (despite being told for years that we didn’t). I do think with better coaching over the previous 4 years the team would have won that match.
Did we have the cattle? Or did the coach get a performance out of them greater than the sum of the parts?
LOL
@booboo said in Foster's Firsts.:
@junior said in Foster's Firsts.:
@taniwharugby said in Foster's Firsts.:
@Chris-B I think the final was probably a summary of the team under him in the past 4 years.
Poor discipline, lack of composure, poor decision making mixed with some excellent rugby, doing enough to win the game, but not quite finishing what was started.
I think this is what is and has been so frustrating - this tournament showed that actually we did have the cattle (despite being told for years that we didn’t). I do think with better coaching over the previous 4 years the team would have won that match.
Did we have the cattle? Or did the coach get a performance out of them greater than the sum of the parts?
The cards suggest our discipline could have been better.
Agreed. Quite often lack of discipline is down to muddled thinking and that is usually down to a poor game plan. Guys not knowing what page they are on.
@junior said in Foster's Firsts.:
I think this is what is and has been so frustrating - this tournament showed that actually we did have the cattle (despite being told for years that we didn’t). I do think with better coaching over the previous 4 years the team would have won that match.
If that's true (I'm not convinced it is - other countries seem to have have better player development) - then surely we should look forward to pre-Foster 40-50+ points shellackings of the Boks and France on a regular basis and comfortably win RWC 2027?
If we do have the cattle, then anything less would indicate the coaching hasn't much improved since 2019.
