@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@Frank said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@1kiwi said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

I'm not a fan of Jordie at 12 anyway. Think he is better utilized off the bench imo. Don't think ALB is the answer either. Think he is past his best at international level now.

So with Jordie on the bench and ALB past his best, who starts at 12 in your team?

Lam?!

replacing one makeshift 12 with another?

Rush defence makes midfields look bad. We know this. The hate on Rieko and JB is surprising - I don't think others would do better. There is no magical back with Conrad passing quality availble, combined with a physical blend of Ngatai and Rupeni. Look at the knockout rugby games from last year - if you get to 20 points, you're almost certainly going to win. Getting to 10 is bloody hard. Defences are very very good now. We have to reset expectations a bit

Chip kicks, grubbers, spiral bombs, wipers, inside balls, lefto, righto, inside-out bananas, 50-22s, pick n goes, cut outs ...
Mix it up.
If anyone can DMac and JB can.

@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

Chip kicks, grubbers, spiral bombs, wipers, inside balls, lefto, righto, inside-out bananas, 50-22s, pick n goes, cut outs ...
Mix it up.
If anyone can DMac and JB can.

Pick and mix? Yum

E. coli

@nzzp yep, and you need a 9 who can not only clear quickly, but long and accurately as well, something neither starting 9 v England has ever been known for.

@taniwharugby said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@nzzp yep, and you need a 9 who can not only clear quickly, but long and accurately as well, something neither starting 9 v England has ever been known for.

Yep
Speed is a massive advantage in rugby, that includes wingers

@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@Frank said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@1kiwi said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

I'm not a fan of Jordie at 12 anyway. Think he is better utilized off the bench imo. Don't think ALB is the answer either. Think he is past his best at international level now.

So with Jordie on the bench and ALB past his best, who starts at 12 in your team?

Lam?!

replacing one makeshift 12 with another?

Rush defence makes midfields look bad. We know this. The hate on Rieko and JB is surprising - I don't think others would do better. There is no magical back with Conrad passing quality availble, combined with a physical blend of Ngatai and Rupeni. Look at the knockout rugby games from last year - if you get to 20 points, you're almost certainly going to win. Getting to 10 is bloody hard. Defences are very very good now. We have to reset expectations a bit

now hang on, I'm not saying Lam should be the incumbent 12, I'd just like to see him play (and not nec. in major games), and as for makeshift 12, he's no David Havili!

@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

Rush defence makes midfields look bad. We know this. The hate on Rieko and JB is surprising - I don't think others would do better. There is no magical back with Conrad passing quality availble, combined with a physical blend of Ngatai and Rupeni. Look at the knockout rugby games from last year - if you get to 20 points, you're almost certainly going to win. Getting to 10 is bloody hard. Defences are very very good now. We have to reset expectations a bit

as to this i agree, there were not many major screwups (defensively) and that was the priority for the midfield given the ball they were getting. Gee the English midfield played well to shut us down.

@African-Monkey said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@Frank Yeah I would love to know the answer to that.

Jordie to the bench now? Far out haha.

Lol what’s happening with the Fern lately. Barrett’s easily our best 12.

@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@African-Monkey said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@Frank Yeah I would love to know the answer to that.

Jordie to the bench now? Far out haha.

Lol what’s happening with the Fern lately. Barrett’s easily our best 12.

his boot also got us out of trouble a few important times against the Poms. I can't help feeling we didn't use that weapon effectively often enough during the Foster period.

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@African-Monkey said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@Frank Yeah I would love to know the answer to that.

Jordie to the bench now? Far out haha.

Lol what’s happening with the Fern lately. Barrett’s easily our best 12.

his boot also got us out of trouble a few important times against the Poms. I can't help feeling we didn't use that weapon effectively often enough during the Foster period.

Bit hard to do clearing kicks from first phase when your playing on the wing

But yes even when he was at FB they hardly gave him the ball to kick, which was baffling.

@Windows97 said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

Bit hard to do clearing kicks from first phase when your playing on the wing

But yes even when he was at FB they hardly gave him the ball to kick, which was baffling.

I'm trying to wipe his short time at the wing from my memory banks, thank you

JB is unquestionably the right guy, he's just not the finished article yet.
He's big and hard, and that is a major advantage for a 10 (especially a small one like McKenzie) as it gives you a bail out option that makes sure you can retain shit ball. Nonu provided that for years.
He knows where the space is - admittedly he's not that good at getting the ball there yet, but he does see it - and that is the bit which is very hard to teach. Accurate and fast passing is much more learnable, and he will get there - he spent a long time playing at fullback where you don't use those skills regularly.
He can kick.
He can tackle, has size to stop momentum and knock forwards over, and doesn't often fuck up defensive reads / come out of the line. Not perfect by any means, but he'll get there.
He's very committed. And generally I think he stand up in the big games and his temperament has improved miles.
I wasn't a JB fan early on, didn't think he should have been picked at fullback and definitely not wing initially. Now he's the best we've got, and has the potential to be very good.

@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

JB is unquestionably the right guy, he's just not the finished article yet.
He's big and hard, and that is a major advantage for a 10 (especially a small one like McKenzie) as it gives you a bail out option that makes sure you can retain shit ball. Nonu provided that for years.
He knows where the space is - admittedly he's not that good at getting the ball there yet, but he does see it - and that is the bit which is very hard to teach. Accurate and fast passing is much more learnable, and he will get there - he spent a long time playing at fullback where you don't use those skills regularly.
He can kick.
He can tackle, has size to stop momentum and knock forwards over, and doesn't often fuck up defensive reads / come out of the line. Not perfect by any means, but he'll get there.
He's very committed. And generally I think he stand up in the big games and his temperament has improved miles.
I wasn't a JB fan early on, didn't think he should have been picked at fullback and definitely not wing initially. Now he's the best we've got, and has the potential to be very good.

fair enough. Although one quibble, did he manage to protect DMac at all? Who was sandwiched often enough by burly English forwards..

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@Frank said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@1kiwi said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

I'm not a fan of Jordie at 12 anyway. Think he is better utilized off the bench imo. Don't think ALB is the answer either. Think he is past his best at international level now.

So with Jordie on the bench and ALB past his best, who starts at 12 in your team?

Lam?!

replacing one makeshift 12 with another?

Rush defence makes midfields look bad. We know this. The hate on Rieko and JB is surprising - I don't think others would do better. There is no magical back with Conrad passing quality availble, combined with a physical blend of Ngatai and Rupeni. Look at the knockout rugby games from last year - if you get to 20 points, you're almost certainly going to win. Getting to 10 is bloody hard. Defences are very very good now. We have to reset expectations a bit

now hang on, I'm not saying Lam should be the incumbent 12, I'd just like to see him play (and not nec. in major games), and as for makeshift 12, he's no David Havili!

I like the look of Lam at 12, but I think he's played 3 or 4 games there at Super - as a makeshift. Going straight into the ABs doesn't seem right - you'd want some experience there surely.

@nostrildamus can't do it when 10 is playing out the back, which we tried a bit to get around the rush. which didn't work that well because of slow service from 9.
mainly though I think it's just a young combination, it'll come.

Perhaps ABs should try Chiefs playbook where 12 gets ball from 9 and DMac loops round behind. Lots of options including flat ball to 13/wing.

@pakman said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

Perhaps ABs should try Chiefs playbook where 12 gets ball from 9 and DMac loops round behind. Lots of options including flat ball to 13/wing.

As lots 12 gets the ball to him and not the imaginary guy behind him.

The biggest point of difference which has you guys frothing over Roigard (deservedly) is not the speed of his service, it’s his ability to run from the base of the scrum, ruck and maul

That keeps defences guessing and reigns in the rush defence

TJ and Christie are easy to read which results in DMac getting swamped

Cortez has better speed of delivery than both of them and will grow into attacking with ball in hand as he gets more game time

@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

The biggest point of difference which has you guys frothing over Roigard (deservedly) is not the speed of his service, it’s his ability to run from the base of the scrum, ruck and maul

That keeps defences guessing and reigns in the rush defence

TJ and Christie are easy to read which results in DMac getting swamped

Cortez has better speed of delivery than both of them and will grow into attacking with ball in hand as he gets more game time

100% agree, that's why I'm stoked Cortez gets an opportunity this week. We need a sniping halfback just as much as we need a halfback that can clear the ball swiftly. Roigard and Cortez are probably the two that do have that right mix in their game.