Wellington Phoenix

@mariner4life said in What is the point of the Phoenix?:

Given their viewing and attendance figures, i fully expect no one to read this, but what is the point of the Wellington Phoenix? And, more importantly, how long until the A-League give them the boot?

They are one of 4 teams to never win the comp. They are one of 2 teams to never even make a final. They have the lowest average attendance in the comp, and that has dropped by 25% this year compared to last.

They've won once all year, and of course sit rooted to the bottom of the table.

Half of the first team squad are foreigners. In their last game, 9 of the 14 players used were overseas players.

Why do they exist again?

The A-League is a ten team league. If the A-League followed that logic and just consistently got rid of the worst team, then there would be no teams in the league. The A-League should be looking to expand and not contract.

The Wellington Phoenix provide an important pathway to young New Zealand talent.

@crucial said in What is the point of the Phoenix?:

@jegga said in What is the point of the Phoenix?:

@mn5 said in What is the point of the Phoenix?:

I used to go fairly regularly with work ( in the corp box of course ) and I must admit the crowd are pretty good fun despite their low numbers ( actually they'd probably draw more than the Lions these days but I digress )

In the cold hard light of day I do agree with all you've written though. They dumped that Auckland team for having a similar record did they not?

They really don’t deserve the fans they have , the Phoenix are just awful .
The Knights/Kingz got dumped when they went broke and a couple of guys in Wellington picked up their licence.

The fans are really just a bunch a folk wanting to try and emulate soccer fan experiences from places in the world where it is a big part of the culture. They see it (or have experienced it before) and want to have the same in NZ.
Problem is, that they are a minority, the quality of the game is piss poor and their pretence can only go so far. I'm surprised they have held out so long before just sitting up in the early hours like sad fucks with Chelsea scarves around their necks pining for what they don't have.
The whole of the A league is built on fantasy.
Soccer is a big sport around a lot of the world but that doesn't mean it should be big in Australasia.

That post makes no sense. Do you thing rugby in Italy is based on a fantasy? Italy has two domestic rugby teams which get pathetic crowds - far worse position than the a-league. In the A-league you have passionate fans and they are displaying their passion for the sport they love. The A-league is just the competition for football in Australia - if football grows the league will grow with it. The goal of the league doesn't have to be to get big or to take over.

There is an NBL in Australia which Cedric Jackson could come over and dominate after being not even good enough to play in the NBA. At least the A-league have had players who have been to the mountaintop.

You seem to be suggesting that people shouldn't bother doing something if it isn't going to become big which to me just seems like a very sad attitude.

@sneakdefreak said in What is the point of the Phoenix?:

They'll be dumped from the A-League soon enough. They have very little support (unlike the Warriors who are our version of the Cubs) and Sky TV is all but gone in the next five years so no tv deal to protect them when their licence is up for renewal.

It also doesn't help that most people have no idea what an A-League is.

What a joke. The Warriors get poor crowds. They are in the middle of a huge rugby league area and play in a massive city. Despite this they had the second worst support in the competition in 2017. When you compare the media, profile and population advantages tat the Warriors have their crowds are very poor.

@mn5 said in What is the point of the Phoenix?:

I used to go fairly regularly with work ( in the corp box of course ) and I must admit the crowd are pretty good fun despite their low numbers ( actually they'd probably draw more than the Lions these days but I digress )

In the cold hard light of day I do agree with all you've written though. They dumped that Auckland team for having a similar record did they not?

The Warriors have made the playoffs 7 times in 23 years. The Wellington Phoenix have made it 4 times in 10 years.

The New Zealand Knights got 25 competition points from 42 regular season games.
The Wellington Phoenix have received 327 points from 273 regular season games. I think it is inaccurate to suggest two teams are on the same level when one team has received double the competition points of the other.

I also think it's great that someone like @mariner4life can decide to support a team 11,000 miles away coached by a German and reliant on a couple of Brazilians and a Egyptian, all the while dismissing local football culture. How do you think Liverpool even formed? It was local passionate people who were so small minded that they had a dispute with Everton. That's how clubs are formed, that's what they are built on. I guess if they hadn't done that in 1892, by the time you came along you would have just supported another random club because what's the point in small clubs?

@crucial you getting a bit weary of soccer saturation over there Cruc? Unusually bellicose mate

@mariner4life ahh let 'em be Mariner

We've weaselled a team into mini America's immigrant sport and while we're making a dogs breakfast of it all the annoyance factor at A league board meetings is surely reward and success enough

Then there's the kiwi kiddies who like the game and we may discover a wee Wynton from the exposure, and all the while plummeting the ozzie "product" (guffaw)

Not least the soccer fans have a big team to enjoy each fortnight. That's good fun for some of my compatriots, and fair enough

NZ obviously can't field a decent football team for more than about 18 months so delusions of grandeur are just that but in the meantime lets just be like you at that cocktail party in 2008 - confident, hopeful, and certainly enjoying yourself at other's expense, whilst being totally out of your depth and refusing to leave until you got kicked out.

"Well youse fluffybunnies shouldn't have 'vited me then!"

or some such, are good parting words for both scenarios, untill then, "c'mon you Pheeeennnix!!" clapclapclap

@mariner4life said in What is the point of the Phoenix?:

They are one of 4 teams to never win the comp. They are one of 2 teams to never even make a final. They have the lowest average attendance in the comp, and that has dropped by 25% this year compared to last.

They've won once all year, and of course sit rooted to the bottom of the table.

Got all these winning facts at your fingertips have you, you fucker?!!!

@chris-b said in What is the point of the Phoenix?:

@mariner4life said in What is the point of the Phoenix?:

They are one of 4 teams to never win the comp. They are one of 2 teams to never even make a final. They have the lowest average attendance in the comp, and that has dropped by 25% this year compared to last.

They've won once all year, and of course sit rooted to the bottom of the table.

Got all these winning facts at your fingertips have you, you fucker?!!!

View embedded content

Soundtrack to every Cantab fans most pornographic fantasies

@mn5 It's a shitload more fit for the purpose than "Welcome to the House of Pain"!

@chris-b said in What is the point of the Phoenix?:

@mariner4life said in What is the point of the Phoenix?:

They are one of 4 teams to never win the comp. They are one of 2 teams to never even make a final. They have the lowest average attendance in the comp, and that has dropped by 25% this year compared to last.

They've won once all year, and of course sit rooted to the bottom of the table.

Got all these winning facts at your fingertips have you, you fucker?!!!

View embedded content

That’s the weirdest dueling banjos remix ever.

@hydro11 said in What is the point of the Phoenix?:

@crucial said in What is the point of the Phoenix?:

@jegga said in What is the point of the Phoenix?:

@mn5 said in What is the point of the Phoenix?:

I used to go fairly regularly with work ( in the corp box of course ) and I must admit the crowd are pretty good fun despite their low numbers ( actually they'd probably draw more than the Lions these days but I digress )

In the cold hard light of day I do agree with all you've written though. They dumped that Auckland team for having a similar record did they not?

They really don’t deserve the fans they have , the Phoenix are just awful .
The Knights/Kingz got dumped when they went broke and a couple of guys in Wellington picked up their licence.

The fans are really just a bunch a folk wanting to try and emulate soccer fan experiences from places in the world where it is a big part of the culture. They see it (or have experienced it before) and want to have the same in NZ.
Problem is, that they are a minority, the quality of the game is piss poor and their pretence can only go so far. I'm surprised they have held out so long before just sitting up in the early hours like sad fucks with Chelsea scarves around their necks pining for what they don't have.
The whole of the A league is built on fantasy.
Soccer is a big sport around a lot of the world but that doesn't mean it should be big in Australasia.

That post makes no sense. Do you thing rugby in Italy is based on a fantasy? Italy has two domestic rugby teams which get pathetic crowds - far worse position than the a-league. In the A-league you have passionate fans and they are displaying their passion for the sport they love. The A-league is just the competition for football in Australia - if football grows the league will grow with it. The goal of the league doesn't have to be to get big or to take over.

There is an NBL in Australia which Cedric Jackson could come over and dominate after being not even good enough to play in the NBA. At least the A-league have had players who have been to the mountaintop.

You seem to be suggesting that people shouldn't bother doing something if it isn't going to become big which to me just seems like a very sad attitude.

You seem to misunderstand what I am getting at. I am not saying people shouldn't have a crack, just that if it isn't sustainable, it isn't sustainable. Eventually you can't go on pretending you are attending something better than you are. The attendances dwindle and the downward spiral begins.
There is a place for soccer in Australasia, it just isn't at the level the A league pretends it is. Anyone good within Oz or NZ plays overseas and the rest fill in a few gaps around failed overseas players. There is no pathway that benefits the sport in our countries. It is simply a put together product to appeal to those soccer fans that want to try and have the experiences they miss. That can only go so far.
Sports like Basketball can maintain a level of of excitement and entertainment because the crowd numbers are smaller. Put the Breakers into US size venues during regular season and it would look as pathetic as the Phoenix

I dont follow soccer and dont know too much about who is who player wise ,

But went to a local derby A league game a few years back ( the same night we played france in the quarter to be exact) the two melbourne sides , and was blown away by the atmosphere ,

Big crowd , and the chanting and singing was full on , never been back though , but they were all passionate about it ,

I think its here to stay in Aus

The Phoenix remind me a little bit of the Western Force.

A bright start when both franchises debuted but geographically isolated and heading in the wrong direction - in both situations they are/were in constant danger of being dropped from the competition by the governing body.

While there is a strong core of what fans they do have - the fanbase is not great and is much smaller than when they started out.

While each franchise they were able to attract some 'star' players earlier on (Giteau/Daniel) that has really dwindled recently.

Maybe the Phoenix fans are simply to nice to stir up enough attention and bums on seats?

This..

..and

@mariner4life said in What is the point of the Phoenix?:

....but what is the point of Wellington....

This is a question I’ve asked many times.

@hydro11 said in What is the point of the Phoenix?:

I also think it's great that someone like @mariner4life can decide to support a team 11,000 miles away coached by a German and reliant on a couple of Brazilians and a Egyptian, all the while dismissing local football culture. How do you think Liverpool even formed? It was local passionate people who were so small minded that they had a dispute with Everton. That's how clubs are formed, that's what they are built on. I guess if they hadn't done that in 1892, by the time you came along you would have just supported another random club because what's the point in small clubs?

holy shit, i missed this. Really? None of this makes any fucking sense at all super-fan. "local football culture" is 6,000 fans in a 34,000 seat stadium watching a team win once a year? Most of whom probably support a premier league side as well (how dismissive).

Their place is not secure. They are a failure on the pitch (making finals is a lot easier when 60% of the teams in the comp do). The Asian Federation isn't thrilled by the thought of an Oceania side making their Champions League (haha). Even overly optimistic and passionate Aussie soccer writers are starting to see that the A-League is stagnating. And I read an article today that thinks part of it is the lack of pathways for Aussie players. Having 10% of the teams trying to be a pathway for NZ players isn't going to help that.

Little point trying to compare to the Warriors, their own fans acknowledge they are a dumpster fire of epic proportions.

If you would like to change the tack of the argument. Why are they so shit? What needs to change?

They just kicked out their only player who can actually score

Aren't they doing quite well at the moment??

@Hooroo said in What is the point of the Phoenix?:

Aren't they doing quite well at the moment??

I’m not going to let things like facts get in the way of a sarcastic gibe .

@jegga I think it is Long Pins I who has given him the boot - not the Phoenix.

Quite why she felt the need to inform the media, I'm not sure.

@Chris-B said in What is the point of the Phoenix?:

@jegga I think it is Long Pins I who has given him the boot - not the Phoenix.

Quite why she felt the need to inform the media, I'm not sure.

I only read the headline, life’s too short to read about the Phoenix but now that you bought that to my attention there’s a link in article to her Instagram page. A cursory look indicates she spends a lot of time in various states of undress.

@jegga From the article apparently she spends a fair bit of her undressed time having not very good sex in various places about the house.

People who have had dinner at Steven's place will be hoping he employs a good cleaner.

What is scandalous about all this? Rich, unmarried footballer banging multiple tarts. Time to clutch pearls!

@Rancid-Schnitzel said in What is the point of the Phoenix?:

What is scandalous about all this? Rich, unmarried footballer banging multiple tarts.!

Or as I see it living the dream

Hell yeah! Eighth straight win for the Nix!

@Stargazer said in What is the point of the Phoenix?:

Hell yeah! Eighth straight win for the Nix!

Win or "not loss"?

@booboo Oops, yes, the latter! 5 wins, 3 draws

I hope they can keep the momentum going. Currently sitting at 6th, with the same number of points as Adelaide, just the goal difference separating them. Still a loooooong way to go until the play-offs though!

That table doesn't include tonight's win so three points ahead of Adelaide and one point off second, although game in hand for everyone ahead of us.

Impressive comeback tonight, woeful first have but incredible turn around after half time. I can't remember the last time I saw the phoenix playing with that kind of intensity and focus.

Rudan is a great manager. If the phoenix can keep him for three years they'll be doing well. Bigger clubs will be interested soon.

"What is the point of the Phoenix"? Asks the man who has posted almost 9000 times on a sports forum.

Sometimes I come here to check in on how the rugby fraternity is dealing with other sports being in the limelight for two seconds; and this is the bullshit I always see.

The Phoenix are the only professional football team in New Zealand. Many kids play football in NZ. I'll leave it to you to work out why their continued existence is important to many people.

@mariner4life you have been told because this new guy means something!!

@Antisonfire said in What is the point of the Phoenix?:

"What is the point of the Phoenix"? Asks the man who has posted almost 9000 times on a sports forum.

Sometimes I come here to check in on how the rugby fraternity is dealing with other sports being in the limelight for two seconds; and this is the bullshit I always see.

The Phoenix are the only professional football team in New Zealand. Many kids play football in NZ. I'll leave it to you to work out why their continued existence is important to many people.

If you aren’t going to answer the question can you at least give us a clue?

@Antisonfire not sure @mariner4life was having a crack at soccer. Just the Phoenix.

There's been similar questions about the point of the Force, Rebels, Kings and Sunwolves over the years. So don't go all soccer victim on us.

At that point the Phoenix were doing a disservice to soccer in the country and were not something to aspire to. Was a fair question.

@booboo Respectfully disagree. If the Hurricanes have 2 or 3 terrible seasons, how many on here want to get rid of them?

The Phoenix are the only pathway to professional football in New Zealand. Even if they are playing poorly - and yes, every sports team in existence have had periods where they perform below expectations - this is still the case. It doesn't change that fact.

What gets me annoyed is that the Phoenix don't get any support from the FFA (Football Fed Australia) and have been slapped with the requirement of fulfilling a range of 'metrics' in order to get their license renewed. Note that no other club in the A-League needs to hit any kind of similar target..

Now, you would think that this unfair treatment would spark some sort of empathy among sports fans in NZ - no matter which code they support - but that isn't the case. Instead, fans of other codes seem to shit on them even more. It's frustrating.

@Antisonfire said in What is the point of the Phoenix?:

@booboo Respectfully disagree. If the Hurricanes have 2 or 3 terrible seasons, how many on here want to get rid of them?

The Phoenix are the only pathway to professional football in New Zealand. Even if they are playing poorly - and yes, every sports team in existence have had periods where they perform below expectations - this is still the case. It doesn't change that fact.

What gets me annoyed is that the Phoenix don't get any support from the FFA (Football Fed Australia) and have been slapped with the requirement of fulfilling a range of 'metrics' in order to get their license renewed. Note that no other club in the A-League needs to hit any kind of similar target..

Now, you would think that this unfair treatment would spark some sort of empathy among sports fans in NZ - no matter which code they support - but that isn't the case. Instead, fans of other codes seem to shit on them even more. It's frustrating.

Would that be because it is an Aussie league though? I can see their point of view as it is another expensive journey to send teams here.

I don't see why they would want to prop up an underperforming team that isn't helpful to their own country's sport?

@Hooroo said in What is the point of the Phoenix?:

@Antisonfire said in What is the point of the Phoenix?:

@booboo Respectfully disagree. If the Hurricanes have 2 or 3 terrible seasons, how many on here want to get rid of them?

The Phoenix are the only pathway to professional football in New Zealand. Even if they are playing poorly - and yes, every sports team in existence have had periods where they perform below expectations - this is still the case. It doesn't change that fact.

What gets me annoyed is that the Phoenix don't get any support from the FFA (Football Fed Australia) and have been slapped with the requirement of fulfilling a range of 'metrics' in order to get their license renewed. Note that no other club in the A-League needs to hit any kind of similar target..

Now, you would think that this unfair treatment would spark some sort of empathy among sports fans in NZ - no matter which code they support - but that isn't the case. Instead, fans of other codes seem to shit on them even more. It's frustrating.

Would that be because it is an Aussie league though? I can see their point of view as it is another expensive journey to send teams here.

I don't see why they would want to prop up an underperforming team that isn't helpful to their own country's sport?

Like the Warriors you mean?

@canefan said in What is the point of the Phoenix?:

@Hooroo said in What is the point of the Phoenix?:

@Antisonfire said in What is the point of the Phoenix?:

@booboo Respectfully disagree. If the Hurricanes have 2 or 3 terrible seasons, how many on here want to get rid of them?

The Phoenix are the only pathway to professional football in New Zealand. Even if they are playing poorly - and yes, every sports team in existence have had periods where they perform below expectations - this is still the case. It doesn't change that fact.

What gets me annoyed is that the Phoenix don't get any support from the FFA (Football Fed Australia) and have been slapped with the requirement of fulfilling a range of 'metrics' in order to get their license renewed. Note that no other club in the A-League needs to hit any kind of similar target..

Now, you would think that this unfair treatment would spark some sort of empathy among sports fans in NZ - no matter which code they support - but that isn't the case. Instead, fans of other codes seem to shit on them even more. It's frustrating.

Would that be because it is an Aussie league though? I can see their point of view as it is another expensive journey to send teams here.

I don't see why they would want to prop up an underperforming team that isn't helpful to their own country's sport?

Like the Warriors you mean?

Does the NRL want the warriors out? But yes, if that is the case

It's not quite like the Warriors as I understand they actually generate money (big audience in NZ and in Aus, lots of merch).

@Antisonfire said in What is the point of the Phoenix?:

@booboo Respectfully disagree. If the Hurricanes have 2 or 3 terrible seasons, how many on here want to get rid of them?

I want to get rid of them no matter what season they have...

Wouldn't it be similar to NZ allowing an Aus team in the NPC?

I agree that from a NZ point of view the Phoenix are pretty critical but you can forgive A-League fans for not wanting them there. I don't like defending Mr DildoinMouth (@mariner4life) but I think his criticism was more about their contribution to the A League as a whole not their importance to NZ soccer. I'd also say he's far more of a soccer fan than the vast majority here. He's a strong supporter of the team that will not will the PL this year.