@kirwan said in Blues v Jaguares:
Don’t Auckland and North Harbour control 60% anyway?
IIRC of the 60% Auckland owns about 40%, NH 14% and Northland 6%.
@taniwharugby said in Blues v Jaguares:
@northlandallday said in Blues v Jaguares:
@taniwharugby said in Blues v Jaguares:
Apisai had a stormer for the B team last week!!
Haha said by no one who actually watched that game.
Ha, sorry, Yea I was being sarcastic....
That's why I was laughing.
Can't believe Apisai over Moulds, what a b/$!t selection. I'd be starting Moulds over Parsons. Especially when Pulu is back in the captaincy role. Give Parsons some time to reflect on his game.
@northlandallday so as Moulds was not allowed to play club rugby this weekend, will he have done enough to get back in the team next week...?
@taniwharugby
You'd have to say on the way selections have been made, Yes! Not playing v playing badly?
I don't know if anyone else has read the Hinton article about last night's game but Umaga was none too impressed that the players didn't follow the gameplan in the 2nd half with the wind behind them. Either the players don't have any respect for the coaches or this demonstrates a clear lack of leadership and rugby nous from Parsons, Ruru/Pulu, Perofeta etc. Or both.
Either way, the situation is dire.
@bovidae yep that a major point from that game, it was quite obvious of the plan at half time as the Ass Coach mentioned it, then they didnt follow it...cant blame the coach for that, but you gotta ask why didnt they follow it? Dont trust coaches plan? PLayers just dumb? JUst inability to think on thier feet to execute?
Think the lack of game awareness was highlighted by Parsons when they luckily got the steal wel into extra time in the 1st half and they looked like they were gonna run it from behind thier line???
No direction or leadership in this franchise, right from the very top down.
@taniwharugby said in Blues v Jaguares:
@kirwan said in Blues v Jaguares:
Don’t Auckland and North Harbour control 60% anyway?
IIRC of the 60% Auckland owns about 40%, NH 14% and Northland 6%.
The 60% was split: 65/29/6
Supposedly calculated on previous investment. I believe Northland then sold half of their shares to Auckland
What I've never understood given that Bolton group only owns 40% why do they have most of the board members??
@taniwharugby said in Blues v Jaguares:
it was quite obvious of the plan at half time as the Ass Coach mentioned it, then they didnt follow it...cant blame the coach for that, but you gotta ask why didnt they follow it? Dont trust coaches plan? PLayers just dumb? JUst inability to think on thier feet to execute?
The players don't listen to the coach. There has to some blame with the coach there too. Maybe the wheels have completely fallen off? Did it change when his hand picked, imported into the region, captain subbed on at 9?
Another article not criticising Tana in any way, don’t they get tired of blowing smoke up his arse?
You have to love the quote “We are not too far away”. From what? Bottoms of the table? Being a complete rabble?
Question. What can a coach do when a team/senior players are not playing your game plan (after sending on a waterman to remind them)?
You yank the players and make it clear there are consequences for not playing for the team. Or you could just moan in the press I guess.
The bigger question is why are the players ignoring him? Has he lost the dressing room? Hard to blame the players when he throws them under the bus publicly like this.
A bit hard to yank Pulu when he was a replacement himself.
Clearly there was a disconnect between the coaches and players regarding tactics. Parsons' lack of awareness in the post-game interview said all you need to know about his leadership qualities.
@bovidae said in Blues v Jaguares:
A bit hard to yank Pulu when he was a replacement himself.
Yes, the man Tana made captain subbed on and like the others ignored the instructions.
That tells you where the team is at. Tana either picked a retard to be leader or Tana’s right hand man doesn’t respect his instructions
@kirwan Interesting questions.
If you are leading 13-5 after playing into the wind in the pouring rain against the Jaguares - and if you keep pinning them back in their own half for the second half, they've probably not got the firepower to beat you from there.
Somehow the players have both disregarded Tana's plan and common sense.
I reckon there's plenty of players, when they get the ball into their hands their natural instinct is just to run - so maybe the ball was getting into the wrong people's hands at the wrong time. Perhaps needed Perofeta (and later Kirkpatrick) to step up and demand the ball - and boot it downfield.
Why didn't they do this? Lack of confidence? Certainly, when Kirkpatrick took that penalty kick for touch towards the end he seemed to be lacking in confidence - first priority seemed to be ensuring he didn't fuck up, rather than getting his forwards close enough to the line for a lineout drive.
4 losses in a row equals the worst sequence of home games in Blues history. Of course this current run includes the worst ever home defeat.
The next home game is vs the Hurricanes. Then it’s the Crusaders.
@kirwan said in Blues v Jaguares:
Another article not criticising Tana in any way, don’t they get tired of blowing smoke up his arse?
You have to love the quote “We are not too far away”. From what? Bottoms of the table? Being a complete rabble?
Question. What can a coach do when a team/senior players are not playing your game plan (after sending on a waterman to remind them)?
You yank the players and make it clear there are consequences for not playing for the team. Or you could just moan in the press I guess.
The bigger question is why are the players ignoring him? Has he lost the dressing room? Hard to blame the players when he throws them under the bus publicly like this.
Welcome to the world of the Hurricanes supportor from 2011 to the end of 2014. It's amazing how some coaches will have journalists gobbling on their knobs regardless of performance. Funny how the deficiencies and incompetence are seen by everyone other than the so-called experts who are paid to write about rugby. One thing that was clear about the Hammett era Canes was their complete lack of direction on field. They were all over the place. Umaga's Blues remind me of them. No proper structure, no confidence in the game plan, no leadership.
I have no advice other than to just let that anger out. Theres nothing else you can do at this stage.
@chris-b said in Blues v Jaguares:
Somehow the players have both disregarded Tana's plan and common sense.
this.
Not sure this Blues team is even in the right space to play spoilers like the Chiefs of old.
Mark Watson and Shane Howarth calling for Tana's head...from 8.53.
Endorsing pretty much everything Blues fans are saying here...fill yer boots! 
One big positive from last night - Dalton Papalii. Keeping his standards high despite what's going on around him.
@chris-b said in Blues v Jaguares:
Mark Watson and Shane Howarth calling for Tana's head...from 8.53.
Endorsing pretty much everything Blues fans are saying here...fill yer boots!
Thanks for posting that. Howarth's comments were exactly right
Compare what Howarth had to say with the fairy tales from Paul or McKendry at the NZ Herald.
The all time Blues XV discussion is in this thread now:
Regarding the ownership, I thought that the private ownership was only for certain parts of the Blues organisation and I would have assumed not for coaching and player as NZR directly funds those salaries?
You'd assume that NZR would have some structures in place to regain control of the franchises. They pay the salary bill, they should have control.
At any rate, the Hammettuer debacle showed NZR wont step in, they watched that Canes fan base shrink and stood by doing nothing ... and I'm not talking about people like me who just switched to following another team, I know a bunch of people who never returned to following Super rugby after it.
@duluth said in Blues v Jaguares:
The next home game is vs the Hurricanes. Then it’s the Crusaders.
Fuck. Thanks for that.
There is a certain irony that the guy that set it up was a former coach of the team.
The only thing the Blues have got right is their name. I get depressed every time I watch them.
@nepia said in Blues v Jaguares:
Regarding the ownership, I thought that the private ownership was only for certain parts of the Blues organisation and I would have assumed not for coaching and player as NZR directly funds those salaries?
You'd assume that NZR would have some structures in place to regain control of the franchises. They pay the salary bill, they should have control.
At any rate, the Hammettuer debacle showed NZR wont step in, they watched that Canes fan base shrink and stood by doing nothing ... and I'm not talking about people like me who just switched to following another team, I know a bunch of people who never returned to following Super rugby after it.
With respect Nepia, if they didn't return then they're pretty crap fans. The Canes have been awesome since then and haven't let anyone down, especially the fans. In fact, this has unarguably been the most consistently successful Canes era. I understand if they were completely and utterly dejected by the "Training really well" era but they must have gotten word that things are a million times better now.
@chris-b said in Blues v Jaguares:
@kirwan Interesting questions.
If you are leading 13-5 after playing into the wind in the pouring rain against the Jaguares - and if you keep pinning them back in their own half for the second half, they've probably not got the firepower to beat you from there.
Somehow the players have both disregarded Tana's plan and common sense.
I reckon there's plenty of players, when they get the ball into their hands their natural instinct is just to run - so maybe the ball was getting into the wrong people's hands at the wrong time. Perhaps needed Perofeta (and later Kirkpatrick) to step up and demand the ball - and boot it downfield.
Why didn't they do this? Lack of confidence? Certainly, when Kirkpatrick took that penalty kick for touch towards the end he seemed to be lacking in confidence - first priority seemed to be ensuring he didn't fuck up, rather than getting his forwards close enough to the line for a lineout drive.
I remember one kick in the first half that their 15 almost returned to the damn tryline, got penalised for obstruction in it luckily.
Maybe that spooked them? Maybe they don’t trust the defensive structure or some of their team mates and decided to try and hang onto the ball?
Either way, I think they did have the fire power to hurt us, our defence this year hasn’t been great. Also, we had a lot of trouble getting the ball off them in the second half, they were great at rumbling up the field. Maybe they thought the game plan needed to changed because they could hardly get the ball so didn’t want to kick it away. Panic basically, losing week after week can do that.
@african-monkey said in Blues v Jaguares:
@dice Similar to Akira in 2015 (Akira was probably more dominant but still). Probably the only positive to come out of this season.
So if Tana stays we can look for to Tupou playing in front of him next year like he did to Akira in his second year.
@rancid-schnitzel I didn't say they made conscious decisions not to return, for many I think other stuff just replaced Super Rugby and by the time the Canes had sorted out their organisation they had other things going on with their lives.
Maybe they could be called crap fans, but these were people who spent a lot of money on tickets and gears for 15 years
Any rugby "fan" that packs a sad and "leaves" the team because they're losing has as much cred as a self absorbed millennial and should pretty much fuck off...
In my opinion
@siam said in Blues v Jaguares:
Any rugby "fan" that packs a sad and "leaves" the team because they're losing has as much cred as a self absorbed millennial and should pretty much fuck off...
In my opinion
I think you missed the point of this discussion.
@nepia said in Blues v Jaguares:
@rancid-schnitzel I didn't say they made conscious decisions not to return, for many I think other stuff just replaced Super Rugby and by the time the Canes had sorted out their organisation they had other things going on with their lives.
Maybe they could be called crap fans, but these were people who spent a lot of money on tickets and gears for 15 years
Fair enough. It's just a shame theyre missing out now. Canes have (mostly) been a joy to watch the past 3 years.
Those who left the Canes during Hammett deserve nothing but scorn.
Imagine if Chiefs fans did that before Rennie. There'd be no franchise left!
We just didn't take the Chiefs seriously (win, lose or draw). And I say that as someone who went to a Chiefs home game at NH stadium.
But I can fully understand if someone from a non-franchise city/town is ambivalent towards Super rugby.
@chris-b said in Blues v Jaguares:
Mark Watson and Shane Howarth calling for Tana's head...from 8.53.
Endorsing pretty much everything Blues fans are saying here...fill yer boots!
I hate that I agree with anything Mark Watson says.
I'll say I don't agree 100% with him over this (fuck he has a massive chip about NZR/Hansen etc) but he's got a point re Tana. Just can't see him going this year. Recruiting post-RWC may be interesting though.
@african-monkey said in Blues v Jaguares:
@kirwan And have Tupou as captain with Apisai as his vice captain.
It’s funny cause it’s true 
What struck me as a disinterested observer was the contrast between watching the Blues and then watching the Crusaders immediately after.
The Crusaders were far from perfect and dropped a lot of ball. But they had a clear game plan that everyone knew and they had energy - notably on defence - they looked like they enjoyed defending, all the players bouncing back to their feet and back into the line and sprinting across the line if they thought they were undermanned somewhere.
The Blues team looked tired - I know the conditions were sapping but not many of them looked energetic. And no clear game plan at all. They had to use the wind to pin the Jags back in their 22 and make them work from deep and then use energetic defence to force mistakes - that's what you do on a foul night with a lead and the wind behind. Still no idea why I tipped them to win - and something has to give next week with the NZ teams beating Aussie teams every time, who will back the Blues to win in Sydney?
@kiwipie said in Blues v Jaguares:
What struck me as a disinterested observer was the contrast between watching the Blues and then watching the Crusaders immediately after.
The Crusaders were far from perfect and dropped a lot of ball. But they had a clear game plan that everyone knew and they had energy - notably on defence - they looked like they enjoyed defending, all the players bouncing back to their feet and back into the line and sprinting across the line if they thought they were undermanned somewhere.
The Blues team looked tired - I know the conditions were sapping but not many of them looked energetic. And no clear game plan at all. They had to use the wind to pin the Jags back in their 22 and make them work from deep and then use energetic defence to force mistakes - that's what you do on a foul night with a lead and the wind behind. Still no idea why I tipped them to win - and something has to give next week with the NZ teams beating Aussie teams every time, who will back the Blues to win in Sydney?
Agreed. The preparation issues you touch on have been evident since the first game against the Chiefs. The fall off in effort is a more recent problem.. perhaps the wheels are completely falling off..
If you were to single out the players who put in a good effort over the weekend it probably would be Goodhue and Papali'i.
Whats notable about them? They have only recently been exposed to the top team.
Against the Waratahs I wouldn't be surprised if we are slight favourites with the bookies again. By my count the Blues have been favourites in 5 matches and only converted that once against the Sunwolves (progress is being made! players are growing! don't throw out the progress!)
Agreed about the the lack of fitness/tired looking Blues team.
The other two things that really get me is the predictable nature of their attacking structure and the soft/dumb penalties they give away every week. Well coached teams with a good culture do not have this happen week after week after week.
Blues will be doing well to win another game this season.