NH International Rugby

@derm-mccrum said in NH International Rugby:

@machpants said in NH International Rugby:

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So it looks like not much change, with tours/6N/RC counting for points, then a couple of semis/final at the end some where? Good luck getting the NH clubs to sign up to an extension of any season for those two weekends or, if it is done during official 'tours' window, that makes everyone's games outside the top 4 totally pointless!

Still the ABs will make it to the semis pretty much every year, it's not knock out, and if that's more money for NZR all good. A test is a test I don't need some league to make me interested, fucking friendlies my arse.

I have a question or two.

The format of the comp is that each of the 12 teams play each other once. That's 11 tests for each team. (I presume Mr Pichot has also got player welfare on his mind in proposing this and reducing the number of tests each year.)

Let's say that there's 2 points awarded for a win towards this 12 Nations Cup.

The Six Nations runs and let's say England get the Grand Slam (10 points) and Italy the Wooden Spoon (Nil points)

Then come the July tests - so the Six Nations all need to play the other six nations presumably.
So let's say Week 1 it's Irl v SA, Wal v Aus, Eng v Fij, Ita v NZ, Sco v Arg and Fra v Japan.
Week 2, they all swap around - Irl v Aus, Wal v NZ, Eng v Jap, Ita v Fij, Sco v SA, Fra v Arg.

NH teams are now knackered so they finish season having played 7 games each. Or they all travel again for a third round, at which some of the SH countries will be licking their lips. So the 6 NH teams will have 8 games under their belts, and SH teams 3 each.

SH teams now play each other in the RC - once or twice? And, if twice, which results counts points towards the 12 Nations Cup? And what about Fiji and Japan - who do they play while all this is going on? Does the RC expand to become the other 6N?
Either way, the RC finishes and the SANZAAR teams are on 6 tests each (plus 3 that don't count) and then play 2 more tests to bring them to 8. (or 11 if they play home and away) Or maybe 13 if it's a SH6N championship home and away).

Or...I don't know.

Then we get to November. The 6N teams have to play 3 tests in the new 3-week international window agreed to now start at beginning of November.
So they sit at home and wait for the remaining countries they have to play to turn up. Italy played Japan, Fiji and Arg during July, so they look forward to SA, Aus and NZ turning up in the San Siro each week and make out like bandits.
England meanwhile open Twickers to await the arrival of Japan, Fiji and Argentina with their newly refurbished £80m East Stand awaiting the err...hordes.

And after all that, four unlucky teams get picked to be in the playoffs of whom two also have to play a final.

Nail. Head.

Could have put this in the NH Club thread but the outcome will effect the England campaign.

Nathan Hughes is torpedoing his chances of playing for England in the EOY tests after a club game where he was cited for striking the head of another player while in a tussle on the ground. I haven't seen the incident but it apparently wasn't a full punch. Trouble is he had to appear on the mat and the offence has to come in at a 6 week level to start. The verdict was about to come down (probably with all sorts of mitigating factors to reduce the ban) when someone noticed he had tweeted 'what a joke' during the process.
He quickly deleted the tweet but damage was done. Hard to mitigate for remorse and respect of procedure after that so the judiciary has delayed its verdict

@crucial

He's right though.

@gt12 said in NH International Rugby:

@crucial

He's right though.

Of course, but since when has being right entered the discussion when you are grovelling for your playing rights with the judiciary?

Poor bloke probably wrote the tweet, thought twice about it then hit send instead of delete as well. Didn't get to delete it until someone else reacted

@crucial

Not my point. He's an idiot.

But, he's also right that the citing system and process is a joke.

@mikedogz That could have been better with better matching of the Unions with similar looking people.

England are missing a lot of back row players through injury. It looks like we will see Brad Shields against the All Blacks.

Eddies whole game plan is based around the the hope of a fit and in form Billy V.
He has realized that risk taking rugby is not in England’s DNA and wants an eleven man game with Farrell at 12.
Billy V is critical to gain line dominance

And Mako, he's pretty big too. Manu T also. They're all broken and/or underplayed, England have not much else to offer grunt wise.

England's injury crisis is a bit disappointing. I wanted to have a full strength England and Ireland to determine where we're at outside of the Rugby Championship.

@antipodean said in NH International Rugby:

England's injury crisis is a bit disappointing. I wanted to have a full strength England and Ireland to determine where we're at outside of the Rugby Championship.

You can still smash them both though please

@mikethesnow said in NH International Rugby:

@antipodean said in NH International Rugby:

England's injury crisis is a bit disappointing. I wanted to have a full strength England and Ireland to determine where we're at outside of the Rugby Championship.

You can still smash them both though please

Typical Welshman, always trying to get someone else to do the work. :expressionless_face:

@catogrande said in NH International Rugby:

@mikethesnow said in NH International Rugby:

@antipodean said in NH International Rugby:

England's injury crisis is a bit disappointing. I wanted to have a full strength England and Ireland to determine where we're at outside of the Rugby Championship.

You can still smash them both though please

Typical Welshman, always trying to get someone else to do the work. :expressionless_face:

To be fair, we kiwis have been roping in other coaches all over the world just to lose to us.

Fromm Rugby 365:
Former Hurricanes star in Scotland squad to face Boks
SQUAD ANNOUNCEMENT: Head coach Gregor Townsend named three uncapped players in a 40-man Scotland squad for the 2018 November Tests.

The uncapped trio are Scarlets back-row Blade Thomson Exeter Chiefs lock Sam Skinner and Glasgow Warriors centre Sam Johnson.

Thomson and Skinner are eligible for the national team through family connections, Thomson through his paternal grandfather, Robert, from Wishaw, while Skinner’s father, Peter, is from Ayr.

Skinner (23) was first involved in the then Scottish Exiles (now Scottish Qualified) programme as a teenager, while at Taunton Titans, before he joined the Chiefs in the 2014/15 season.

He was then selected for England Under-20 – and faced many of his Scotland contemporaries in the age-grade Six Nations – before becoming an increasingly prominent part of the Exeter squad that won the English Premiership title for the first time in 2017 and finished as runners-up in last year’s final.

Thomson (27) arrived in west Wales from Super Rugby side Hurricanes, having represented New Zealand U20 and the Maori All Blacks, and has been a stand-out performer for the Llanelli side in his debut Pro14 season.

Johnson (25) is eligible for Scotland on residency grounds, having joined Glasgow Warriors in 2015.

The Australian-born centre has been a popular figure at the Scotstoun club, making 40 appearances since his arrival and voted last year’s Players’ Player of the Season by his peers.

The squad also welcomes the return of several seasoned campaigners who missed the June tour either through injury or a scheduled rest, which sees the likes of Alex Dunbar, Jonny Gray, Huw Jones, Greig Laidlaw, Sean Maitland, Willem Nel, Gordon Reid, Finn Russell, Tommy Seymour, Ryan Wilson and Hamish Watson all back in the squad.

The selection also marks the return of centre Matt Scott and scrumhalf Henry Pyrgos, who last featured in a Scotland shirt in the side’s 2017 wins over Australia in Sydney in June and Edinburgh last November, respectively.

Scotland will face Wales in Cardiff on Saturday, November 3 and contest the ‘Doddie Weir Cup’, as both teams honour the former Scotland and British & Irish Lions player diagnosed with Motor Neurone Disease.

Scotland will then return home to Murrayfield for three home Tests against Fiji, South Africa and Argentina on the consecutive Saturdays that follow (10, 17 and 24 November).
Scotland squad:

Forwards: Alex Allan, Simon Berghan, Magnus Bradbury, Fraser Brown, Allan Dell, David Denton, Matt Fagerson, Ross Ford, Grant Gilchrist, Jonny Gray, Rob Harley, Murray McCallum, Stuart McInally, Willem Nel, Gordon Reid, Jamie Ritchie, Sam Skinner, Blade Thomson, Ben Toolis, George Turner, Hamish Watson, Ryan Wilson.

Backs: Alex Dunbar, Dougie Fife, Chris Harris, Adam Hastings, George Horne, Pete Horne, Sam Johnson, Huw Jones, Lee Jones, Blair Kinghorn, Greig Laidlaw, Sean Maitland, Byron McGuigan, Ali Price, Henry Pyrgos, Finn Russell, Matt Scott, Tommy Seymour.

Not considered through injury: John Barclay, Mark Bennett, Lewis Carmichael (all Edinburgh), Cornell du Preez (Worcester Warriors), Zander Fagerson (Glasgow Warriors), Richie Gray (Toulouse), Stuart Hogg (Glasgow Warriors), Tim Swinson (Glasgow Warriors), Duncan Taylor (Saracens).

@catogrande said in NH International Rugby:

@mikethesnow said in NH International Rugby:

@antipodean said in NH International Rugby:

England's injury crisis is a bit disappointing. I wanted to have a full strength England and Ireland to determine where we're at outside of the Rugby Championship.

You can still smash them both though please

Typical Welshman, always trying to get someone else to do the work. :expressionless_face:

Well we won't have the chance to be fair

@daffy-jaffy said in NH International Rugby:

New Zealand U20 and the Maori All Blacks

How is Thomson eligible if he's already represented New Zealand U20 and the Maori All Blacks?

@mikethesnow said in NH International Rugby:

@daffy-jaffy said in NH International Rugby:

New Zealand U20 and the Maori All Blacks

How is Thomson eligible if he's already represented New Zealand U20 and the Maori All Blacks?

Neither of those are the designated 'second side' under WR rules. I think the Junior ABs still are (along with Sevens)

edit: yep, JABs

Now, considering we are accused of poaching a lot, it is an interesting counter that we don't use the next senior XV team as a means of locking players in. Quite the opposite in that we have registered a team that never plays

@mikethesnow said in NH International Rugby:

@catogrande said in NH International Rugby:

@mikethesnow said in NH International Rugby:

@antipodean said in NH International Rugby:

England's injury crisis is a bit disappointing. I wanted to have a full strength England and Ireland to determine where we're at outside of the Rugby Championship.

You can still smash them both though please

Typical Welshman, always trying to get someone else to do the work. :expressionless_face:

Well we won't have the chance to be fair

I wish I shared your certainty.

@crucial said in NH International Rugby:

Neither of those are the designated 'second side' under WR rules. I think the Junior ABs still are (along with Sevens)

edit: yep, JABs

When was the last time the JABs even played?

Does touch on a bit of (very mild) hypocrisy from the NZRU brass when they give it to SA for picking with quotas when we ditched the JABs for a more restrictive selection...

Really dumb actually.

@rotated said in NH International Rugby:

@crucial said in NH International Rugby:

Neither of those are the designated 'second side' under WR rules. I think the Junior ABs still are (along with Sevens)

edit: yep, JABs

When was the last time the JABs even played?

Does touch on a bit of (very mild) hypocrisy from the NZRU brass when they give it to SA for picking with quotas when we ditched the JABs for a more restrictive selection...

Really dumb actually.

Who gives it to SA for picking with quotas?

@crucial said in NH International Rugby:

Who gives it to SA for picking with quotas?

Uh, Hansen just about every year we play SA.

2015
2016
Comments in 2017 for a book that came out this year.

Henry and Mains have both been outspoken too, but only once outside the tent. Hansen has said it often enough, explicitly enough to where the NZRU either agree, or don't care to reign him in.

England name squad for Quilter Internationals

England men’s head coach Eddie Jones has named a 36-man squad to fly to Portugal next week for a training camp to prepare for the first match of the Quilter Internationals against South Africa.

Jones has confirmed that Owen Farrell (Saracens) and Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints) will be co-captains for the four-Test series.

There are eight uncapped players named in the squad including Joe Cokanasiga (Bath Rugby), Nathan Earle (Harlequins), Ted Hill (Worcester Warriors), Zach Mercer (Bath Rugby), Ben Moon (Exeter Chiefs), Michael Rhodes (Saracens), Nick Schonert (Worcester Warriors) and Elliott Stooke (Bath Rugby).

Ben Morgan (Gloucester Rugby) is included for the first time since 2015. The 29-year-old number eight has played 31 Tests for his country with his final appearance coming against Australia during the last Rugby World Cup.

Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby) is selected in the squad for the first time this season while Hill has been named as an apprentice.

“I’m really happy with the squad," said Jones.
"We can only control what we can control and injuries have happened. It gives an opportunity for some good new players to play some important Tests for England while players who have been in the squad before, will have to take on more responsibility."
Jones added: “I have named Dylan and Owen as co-captains for the series. They have both been excellent captains for England in the past and will provide a powerful leadership base for us on and off the field."

A 23-man squad will be confirmed on Tuesday 30 October ahead of the Test against the Springboks on 3 November. England will fly back to London from Portugal following the Test squad announcement on Thursday 1 November.
England men’s squad

Forwards (20)
Tom Curry (Sale Sharks), Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby), Jamie George (Saracens), Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints) co-captain, Alec Hepburn (Exeter Chiefs), Ted Hill (Worcester Warriors) *, Maro Itoje (Saracens), George Kruis (Saracens), Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints), Zach Mercer (Bath Rugby), Ben Moon (Exeter Chiefs), Ben Morgan (Gloucester Rugby), Michael Rhodes (Saracens), Nick Schonert (Worcester Warriors), Brad Shields (Wasps), Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins), Elliott Stooke (Bath Rugby), Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby), Harry Williams (Exeter Chiefs), Mark Wilson (Newcastle Falcons)
Backs (16)
Chris Ashton (Sale Sharks), Mike Brown (Harlequins), Danny Care (Harlequins), Joe Cokanasiga (Bath Rugby), Elliot Daly (Wasps), Nathan Earle (Harlequins), Owen Farrell (Saracens) co-captain, George Ford (Leicester Tigers), Alex Lozowski (Saracens), Jonny May (Leicester Tigers), Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs), Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs), Ben Te’o (Worcester Warriors), Manu Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers), Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens), Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers).
*Apprentice

Unavailable for selection
Jack Clifford (Harlequins), Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers), Nathan Hughes (Wasps), Nick Isiekwe (Saracens), Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby), Joe Launchbury (Wasps), Chris Robshaw (Harlequins), Dan Robson (Wasps), Billy Vunipola (Saracens), Mako Vunipola (Saracens), Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby).

Nathan Hughes had an initial 4 week ban extended to 6 after tweeting 'What a joke' when leaving the hearing. (Unmitigated 6 weeks reinstated and a 2 week ban for the tweet to be served concurrently)

@rotated said in NH International Rugby:

@crucial said in NH International Rugby:

Who gives it to SA for picking with quotas?

Uh, Hansen just about every year we play SA.

2015
2016
Comments in 2017 for a book that came out this year.

Henry and Mains have both been outspoken too, but only once outside the tent. Hansen has said it often enough, explicitly enough to where the NZRU either agree, or don't care to reign him in.

Hmmmm.

I don't agree with your interpretation of Hansen's comments as 'giving it to' SA for their policies. I see them as describing how tough it is for the Boks/Bok coaches (mainly from his insights chatting with his mate Meyer)

I see the comments in the book as describing how under the policies they don't necessarily select the best team they could.

Maybe we are just tripping over the language in the post.

The bit in your comment that I don't understand is why it hypocritical.

I have read reports that Eddie is looking at ditching the Ford/Farrell experiment for good and will be looking at a Farrell/Te'o/Tuilagi combo.
If that is the case he is giving up on trying to change England and going back to the direct style they are familiar with. Punching their way up-field until within kicking range or a misaligned defence offers an opportunity to go wide.
Back three of Ashton/May, Brown and Daly?

@crucial said in NH International Rugby:

I have read reports that Eddie is looking at ditching the Ford/Farrell experiment for good and will be looking at a Farrell/Te'o/Tuilagi combo.
If that is the case he is giving up on trying to change England and going back to the direct style they are familiar with. Punching their way up-field until within kicking range or a misaligned defence offers an opportunity to go wide.
Back three of Ashton/May, Brown and Daly?

Real shame. England have and will have the backs to execute both a 'truck it up' and expansive game plan.

@mikethesnow said in NH International Rugby:

@crucial said in NH International Rugby:

I have read reports that Eddie is looking at ditching the Ford/Farrell experiment for good and will be looking at a Farrell/Te'o/Tuilagi combo.
If that is the case he is giving up on trying to change England and going back to the direct style they are familiar with. Punching their way up-field until within kicking range or a misaligned defence offers an opportunity to go wide.
Back three of Ashton/May, Brown and Daly?

Real shame. England have and will have the backs to execute both a 'truck it up' and expansive game plan.

I think Eddie ahs been heard to comment that he doesn't believe that the expansive game is in the DNA of the players. Not that they don't have the skillsets or desire just that the club footy low risk style doesn't create the instincts required.
He is probably correct in that they need to play the way that comes naturally but do it with the best players at the highest levels of execution.
Of course, we hope that the drawback to this style is that it relies on accumulating points from the boot and battering in the trenches. We keep showing that it is hard to do that for 80 minutes and as long as we stay close we can blow past in the final stanza

@crucial said in NH International Rugby:

@mikethesnow said in NH International Rugby:

@crucial said in NH International Rugby:

I have read reports that Eddie is looking at ditching the Ford/Farrell experiment for good and will be looking at a Farrell/Te'o/Tuilagi combo.
If that is the case he is giving up on trying to change England and going back to the direct style they are familiar with. Punching their way up-field until within kicking range or a misaligned defence offers an opportunity to go wide.
Back three of Ashton/May, Brown and Daly?

Real shame. England have and will have the backs to execute both a 'truck it up' and expansive game plan.

I think Eddie ahs been heard to comment that he doesn't believe that the expansive game is in the DNA of the players. Not that they don't have the skillsets or desire just that the club footy low risk style doesn't create the instincts required.
He is probably correct in that they need to play the way that comes naturally but do it with the best players at the highest levels of execution.
Of course, we hope that the drawback to this style is that it relies on accumulating points from the boot and battering in the trenches. We keep showing that it is hard to do that for 80 minutes and as long as we stay close we can blow past in the final stanza

Surely it's his job to recognise and pick the players who can evolve and adapt to his coaching style and aims.

They're there.

@mikethesnow said in NH International Rugby:

@crucial said in NH International Rugby:

@mikethesnow said in NH International Rugby:

@crucial said in NH International Rugby:

I have read reports that Eddie is looking at ditching the Ford/Farrell experiment for good and will be looking at a Farrell/Te'o/Tuilagi combo.
If that is the case he is giving up on trying to change England and going back to the direct style they are familiar with. Punching their way up-field until within kicking range or a misaligned defence offers an opportunity to go wide.
Back three of Ashton/May, Brown and Daly?

Real shame. England have and will have the backs to execute both a 'truck it up' and expansive game plan.

I think Eddie ahs been heard to comment that he doesn't believe that the expansive game is in the DNA of the players. Not that they don't have the skillsets or desire just that the club footy low risk style doesn't create the instincts required.
He is probably correct in that they need to play the way that comes naturally but do it with the best players at the highest levels of execution.
Of course, we hope that the drawback to this style is that it relies on accumulating points from the boot and battering in the trenches. We keep showing that it is hard to do that for 80 minutes and as long as we stay close we can blow past in the final stanza

Surely it's his job to recognise and pick the players who can evolve and adapt to his coaching style and aims.

They're there.

TBF I think he has tried. Whether the recent loss rate has made him give up that approach or whether the players aren't up to it is the question.
I do think England (and Eddie) have been rather conservative with selections though and could have given the squads a huge shakeup in search of the game they could aspire to.
I think his point was that it makes it difficult to have the players playing a different style to the one their year round comp expects from them.

Looking at that England squad, the forwards are a bit mediocre and green, but the backline looks fantastic. Normally it's the other way around with them.

A tough and unusual test coming for the All Blacks against England on 10 November.

Our forwards will dominate England, and no matter how good the Red Rose backs are, they'll be unable to stand upto the All Blacks backs with good front foot ball provided on a platter. It's Ireland who are the real threat imo.

@mikethesnow said in NH International Rugby:

Surely it's his job to recognise and pick the players who can evolve and adapt to his coaching style and aims.
They're there.

That rules out the ones who played against Italy.

Manu Tuilagi is set to return for England:

@sparky Has he played any rugby in the last few years?

@antipodean said in NH International Rugby:

@sparky Has he played any rugby in the last few years?

This is doing the rounds

@mikethesnow They forgot to include this in that highlights real. Unreal defence on a big unit from BFA.