@MiketheSnow
Living out their childhood dreams.
@MiketheSnow said in NH International Rugby:
@mofitzy_ said in NH International Rugby:
Wales coach Wayne Pivac has named New Zealand-born backs Johnny McNicholl and Willis Halaholo in his first squad.
No doubt we will see James Lowe lining out for Ireland eventually too.
They've earned it
I say this without knowing the players and knowing the rules but it just doesn’t sit right to me. Not knocking Wales here, we’re guilty the right side of the river too. I have no problem with the Faletau’s and Vunipola’s but three years at these ages is just wrong to me. There’s a world of difference between 3 years at 15 and say early 20’s. Worse still is the parachuting of players like Shields. And yeah, I know this has been done to death in here. 
️
@Catogrande to be fair, Shields has spent his whole career showing the handling skills I got used to at club level here.
@Bones said in NH International Rugby:
@Catogrande to be fair, Shields has spent his whole career showing the handling skills I got used to at club level here.
Well in THAT case. A shoe in for the England back row.
@mofitzy_ said in NH International Rugby:
@MiketheSnow
Living out their childhood dreams.
Their childhood dream was to play international rugby for the ABs I'm sure.
They weren't good enough, so playing against the ABs is the next best thing.
@mofitzy_ said in NH International Rugby:
Wales coach Wayne Pivac has named New Zealand-born backs Johnny McNicholl and Willis Halaholo in his first squad.
No doubt we will see James Lowe lining out for Ireland eventually too.
Superfluous word
@Catogrande said in NH International Rugby:
@MiketheSnow said in NH International Rugby:
@mofitzy_ said in NH International Rugby:
Wales coach Wayne Pivac has named New Zealand-born backs Johnny McNicholl and Willis Halaholo in his first squad.
No doubt we will see James Lowe lining out for Ireland eventually too.
They've earned it
I say this without knowing the players and knowing the rules but it just doesn’t sit right to me. Not knocking Wales here, we’re guilty the right side of the river too. I have no problem with the Faletau’s and Vunipola’s but three years at these ages is just wrong to me. There’s a world of difference between 3 years at 15 and say early 20’s. Worse still is the parachuting of players like Shields. And yeah, I know this has been done to death in here.
Always worth re-airing.
@booboo said in NH International Rugby:
@mofitzy_ said in NH International Rugby:
Wales coach Wayne Pivac has named New Zealand-born backs Johnny McNicholl and Willis Halaholo in his first squad.
No doubt we will see James Lowe lining out for Ireland eventually too.
Superfluous word
Agree, direct quote from the article.
Every rugby fan I met at the WC agreed that players who move as professional rugby players should have even stricter rules applied by meeting residency plus some other criteria or combination of criteria such as being married to a local, having a child with the local passport, gaining a passport for said country, buying and owning property for a certain amount of time. It’s mad that professionals, moving simply for professional reasons, are treated the same way as (for example) 13 year olds who are moved by their parents.
@MiketheSnow said in NH International Rugby:
@mofitzy_ said in NH International Rugby:
@MiketheSnow
Living out their childhood dreams.Their childhood dream was to play international rugby for the ABs I'm sure.
They weren't good enough, so playing against the ABs is the next best thing.
"Wales"
Just call it the Welsh Invitational XV and be done with it
@mariner4life said in NH International Rugby:
@MiketheSnow said in NH International Rugby:
@mofitzy_ said in NH International Rugby:
@MiketheSnow
Living out their childhood dreams.Their childhood dream was to play international rugby for the ABs I'm sure.
They weren't good enough, so playing against the ABs is the next best thing.
"Wales"
Just call it the Welsh Invitational XV and be done with it
Ha ha
Didn't see too much blather when Japan were ripping through the pool stages of the WC
@MiketheSnow said in NH International Rugby:
@mariner4life said in NH International Rugby:
@MiketheSnow said in NH International Rugby:
@mofitzy_ said in NH International Rugby:
@MiketheSnow
Living out their childhood dreams.Their childhood dream was to play international rugby for the ABs I'm sure.
They weren't good enough, so playing against the ABs is the next best thing.
"Wales"
Just call it the Welsh Invitational XV and be done with it
Ha ha
Didn't see too much blather when Japan were ripping through the pool stages of the WC
i was making heaps of jokes about how modern and inclusive their UN side was.
However it is so sad to see the Welsh have fallen to basically saying they are no worse than T2 sides like Japan. And Scotland.
@MiketheSnow said in NH International Rugby:
@mariner4life said in NH International Rugby:
@MiketheSnow said in NH International Rugby:
@mofitzy_ said in NH International Rugby:
@MiketheSnow
Living out their childhood dreams.Their childhood dream was to play international rugby for the ABs I'm sure.
They weren't good enough, so playing against the ABs is the next best thing.
"Wales"
Just call it the Welsh Invitational XV and be done with it
Ha ha
Didn't see too much blather when Japan were ripping through the pool stages of the WC
Not looking close enough
Whilst there's an element of truth that Wales has fallen to WC SF status and needs an influx of overseas born players to bolster our chances of actually making a Final, the real reason is the concurrent playing of Pro 14 matches during the Autumn Internationals and 6N.
Each of the Welsh regions provides players to the Wales national squad - as it should be - and in their absence the regional teams need players who in the short term are not going to be called away on international duty.
Their reward for keeping the regions competitive?
Residency and a possible call up to Wales. Or Scotland. Or Ireland. Or England. Or France.
@MiketheSnow said in NH International Rugby:
Whilst there's an element of truth that Wales has fallen to WC SF status and needs an influx of overseas born players to bolster our chances of actually making a Final, the real reason is the concurrent playing of Pro 14 matches during the Autumn Internationals and 6N.
Fallen?
It's their peak.
@MajorRage said in NH International Rugby:
@MiketheSnow said in NH International Rugby:
Whilst there's an element of truth that Wales has fallen to WC SF status and needs an influx of overseas born players to bolster our chances of actually making a Final, the real reason is the concurrent playing of Pro 14 matches during the Autumn Internationals and 6N.
Fallen?
It's their peak.
I think Mike is referring to misguided optimism. That has now fallen.
@Catogrande said in NH International Rugby:
@MajorRage said in NH International Rugby:
@MiketheSnow said in NH International Rugby:
Whilst there's an element of truth that Wales has fallen to WC SF status and needs an influx of overseas born players to bolster our chances of actually making a Final, the real reason is the concurrent playing of Pro 14 matches during the Autumn Internationals and 6N.
Fallen?
It's their peak.
I think Mike is referring to misguided optimism. That has now fallen.
I was being sarcastic in reference to the Tier 2 quip.
@MiketheSnow said in NH International Rugby:
@Catogrande said in NH International Rugby:
@MajorRage said in NH International Rugby:
@MiketheSnow said in NH International Rugby:
Whilst there's an element of truth that Wales has fallen to WC SF status and needs an influx of overseas born players to bolster our chances of actually making a Final, the real reason is the concurrent playing of Pro 14 matches during the Autumn Internationals and 6N.
Fallen?
It's their peak.
I think Mike is referring to misguided optimism. That has now fallen.
I was being sarcastic in reference to the Tier 2 quip.
What's the point? You're on a Kiwi website.
@Catogrande said in NH International Rugby:
@MiketheSnow said in NH International Rugby:
@Catogrande said in NH International Rugby:
@MajorRage said in NH International Rugby:
@MiketheSnow said in NH International Rugby:
Whilst there's an element of truth that Wales has fallen to WC SF status and needs an influx of overseas born players to bolster our chances of actually making a Final, the real reason is the concurrent playing of Pro 14 matches during the Autumn Internationals and 6N.
Fallen?
It's their peak.
I think Mike is referring to misguided optimism. That has now fallen.
I was being sarcastic in reference to the Tier 2 quip.
What's the point? You're on a Kiwi website.
@gt12 said in NH International Rugby:
Every rugby fan I met at the WC agreed that players who move as professional rugby players should have even stricter rules applied by meeting residency plus some other criteria or combination of criteria such as being married to a local, having a child with the local passport, gaining a passport for said country, buying and owning property for a certain amount of time. It’s mad that professionals, moving simply for professional reasons, are treated the same way as (for example) 13 year olds who are moved by their parents.
I think the simple rule would - and should be - if you are a citizen, you are entitled to play. For those qualifying for citizenship by descent, there's a clear connection to the country. For those who do the time to qualify for citizenship, again, there's a clear connection and commitment to the country.
EDIT: I realise this might be a bit awkward for some Wallaby players, who've lived most of their lives in Aus as permanent residents c/o their Kiwi citizenship - I recall Quade actually became an Aus citizen years after his debut and only so he play in the Rio 7s!
But citizenship can be escalated by national governments. You only need to look at the amount of Brazilians playing for oil rich Middle Eastern nations. Likewise those same nations dish out citizenships to East African runners ahead of Olympic Games.
@Wurzel said in NH International Rugby:
But citizenship can be escalated by national governments. You only need to look at the amount of Brazilians playing for oil rich Middle Eastern nations. Likewise those same nations dish out citizenships to East African runners ahead of Olympic Games.
Yeah citizenship is much worse. It should never be the only pre-requisite. Maybe 5 years/parents (ditch the grandprents) + citizenship
Citizenship still creates a lot of inequalities, even if you combine it with 5 years residence, because in some countries it's is very difficult to get citizenship (the opposite of @Wurzel's example) and some countries allow dual citizenship and others don't. There are also countries that don't allow their people to lose their citizenship, even if it's to obtain another one.
IMO, 5 years residence is enough. I wouldn't ditch the grandparents rule, because that would hurt PI nations.
Anyway, I'm sure there have been more possible ideas/solutions/variations in the eligibility thread.
@Machpants said in NH International Rugby:
I thought it was 5 years now, have they been over there for 5? Or are they the last of the 3 yearers?
They're among the last of the 3-yearers.
There isn't much November rugby this year, so maybe some others (like James Lowe) who just beat the deadline when they moved. But no November internationals so not picked yet.
@junior said in NH International Rugby:
@gt12 said in NH International Rugby:
Every rugby fan I met at the WC agreed that players who move as professional rugby players should have even stricter rules applied by meeting residency plus some other criteria or combination of criteria such as being married to a local, having a child with the local passport, gaining a passport for said country, buying and owning property for a certain amount of time. It’s mad that professionals, moving simply for professional reasons, are treated the same way as (for example) 13 year olds who are moved by their parents.
I think the simple rule would - and should be - if you are a citizen, you are entitled to play. For those qualifying for citizenship by descent, there's a clear connection to the country. For those who do the time to qualify for citizenship, again, there's a clear connection and commitment to the country.
EDIT: I realise this might be a bit awkward for some Wallaby players, who've lived most of their lives in Aus as permanent residents c/o their Kiwi citizenship - I recall Quade actually became an Aus citizen years after his debut and only so he play in the Rio 7s!
It would be a good way to highlight the shitty way Australian Government treat some of their people.
@Catogrande said in NH International Rugby:
@MiketheSnow said in NH International Rugby:
@Catogrande said in NH International Rugby:
@MajorRage said in NH International Rugby:
@MiketheSnow said in NH International Rugby:
Whilst there's an element of truth that Wales has fallen to WC SF status and needs an influx of overseas born players to bolster our chances of actually making a Final, the real reason is the concurrent playing of Pro 14 matches during the Autumn Internationals and 6N.
Fallen?
It's their peak.
I think Mike is referring to misguided optimism. That has now fallen.
I was being sarcastic in reference to the Tier 2 quip.
What's the point? You're on a Kiwi website.
Sarcasm, not irony
@junior said in NH International Rugby:
@gt12 said in NH International Rugby:
Every rugby fan I met at the WC agreed that players who move as professional rugby players should have even stricter rules applied by meeting residency plus some other criteria or combination of criteria such as being married to a local, having a child with the local passport, gaining a passport for said country, buying and owning property for a certain amount of time. It’s mad that professionals, moving simply for professional reasons, are treated the same way as (for example) 13 year olds who are moved by their parents.
I think the simple rule would - and should be - if you are a citizen, you are entitled to play. For those qualifying for citizenship by descent, there's a clear connection to the country. For those who do the time to qualify for citizenship, again, there's a clear connection and commitment to the country.
EDIT: I realise this might be a bit awkward for some Wallaby players, who've lived most of their lives in Aus as permanent residents c/o their Kiwi citizenship - I recall Quade actually became an Aus citizen years after his debut and only so he play in the Rio 7s!
Citizenship isn't always an ethical process in some countries. Although I like the idea of needing citizenship as a minimum, on top of the other residential/parental criteria.
@Wurzel said in NH International Rugby:
But citizenship can be escalated by national governments. You only need to look at the amount of Brazilians playing for oil rich Middle Eastern nations. Likewise those same nations dish out citizenships to East African runners ahead of Olympic Games.
This. Did a booboo. Read. The. Thread.
@Wurzel said in NH International Rugby:
But citizenship can be escalated by national governments. You only need to look at the amount of Brazilians playing for oil rich Middle Eastern nations. Likewise those same nations dish out citizenships to East African runners ahead of Olympic Games.
Yeah I’m not sure someone like Bojo would be expediting the citizenship of bunch of Fijians just to bolster the English rugby team
@booboo said in NH International Rugby:
@junior said in NH International Rugby:
@gt12 said in NH International Rugby:
Every rugby fan I met at the WC agreed that players who move as professional rugby players should have even stricter rules applied by meeting residency plus some other criteria or combination of criteria such as being married to a local, having a child with the local passport, gaining a passport for said country, buying and owning property for a certain amount of time. It’s mad that professionals, moving simply for professional reasons, are treated the same way as (for example) 13 year olds who are moved by their parents.
I think the simple rule would - and should be - if you are a citizen, you are entitled to play. For those qualifying for citizenship by descent, there's a clear connection to the country. For those who do the time to qualify for citizenship, again, there's a clear connection and commitment to the country.
EDIT: I realise this might be a bit awkward for some Wallaby players, who've lived most of their lives in Aus as permanent residents c/o their Kiwi citizenship - I recall Quade actually became an Aus citizen years after his debut and only so he play in the Rio 7s!
Citizenship isn't always an ethical process in some countries. Although I like the idea of needing citizenship as a minimum, on top of the other residential/parental criteria.
I appreciate that may be the case, but something doesn’t sit quite right about preventing a citizen from representing his country (no matter how he might have gotten citizenship)
@booboo said in NH International Rugby:
Although I like the idea of needing citizenship as a minimum
That would rule some Kiwi origin players for Australia going forward.
@Nepia said in NH International Rugby:
@booboo said in NH International Rugby:
Although I like the idea of needing citizenship as a minimum
That would rule some Kiwi origin players for Australia going forward.
And?
@booboo said in NH International Rugby:
@Nepia said in NH International Rugby:
@booboo said in NH International Rugby:
Although I like the idea of needing citizenship as a minimum
That would rule some Kiwi origin players for Australia going forward.
And?
Does there have to be an And ... I thought this was a place to spew out our verbal diahorrea. 
Martin Bayfield picks a XV of the best players he’s played with or against -
Full-back: Gavin Hastings (Scotland)
During my international career Gavin was, pretty much, the Scotland team.
Right wing: Ieuan Evans (Wales)
There were faster wings, but his ability to read and influence a game was enormous. Against the Maori in 1993, with the Lions down by 20 points, he took control of the game, scoring a crucial try.
Outside-centre: Jeremy Guscott (England)
Gave an efficient, effective England side a touch of finesse. An arrogant sod and a pain in the arse at times, but great fun.
Inside-centre: Scott Gibbs (Wales)
I liked the way he carried himself. He was humble and quiet, but could be scary on the pitch.
Left wing: Jonah Lomu (New Zealand)
I remember holding on to his leg, and it was like putting your arm around somebody’s chest.
Fly-half: Rob Andrew (England)
Once the pressure came, he never folded. England’s gameplan was built around him.
Scrum-half: Rob Howley (Wales)
My last game for England was his first for Wales. England won, but Rob scored a remarkable try. You could see he was special.
Loosehead prop: Gary Pagel (South Africa)
If only Northampton had a player of his quality now. I have seen him destroy an opposition’s front row.
Hooker: Sean Fitzpatrick (New Zealand)
Sean makes you realise why the English will never get to the same level as the All Blacks: we do not have the same passion or history.
Tighthead prop: Jason Leonard (England)
Would come into your hotel room so any food or drink went on your tab.
Lock: Martin Johnson (England, capt)
You do not need to say much about Johnno, he was that influential for England. Boring as hell with his American football, but intelligent.
Lock: John Eales (Australia)
We made our debuts two days apart, but, boy, was there a gulf between us. He made me look at how I played my game.
Blindside flanker: Tim Rodber (England)
One of those guys who could drift in and out of a game, but, when he got it right, he was unbelievable.
Openside flanker: Peter Winterbottom (England)
Winters played for Hawke’s Bay during the 80s. When we returned to a bar in that part of New Zealand on the 1993 Lions tour, the whole place stood to applaud him.
No 8: Zinzan Brooke (New Zealand)
There was something that set him apart. I have never come across a player with so much skill.
Liked the fact he picked Rob Howley at 9
Considering the utterly shit packs he played behind, Howley looked world class game after game. A mix of Sid Going's running and bossing the game and Aaron Smith's passing.
Best 9 I've seen IMHO.
@Victor-Meldrew said in NH International Rugby:
Liked the fact he picked Rob Howley at 9
Considering the utterly shit packs he played behind, Howley looked world class game after game. A mix of Sid Going's running and bossing the game and Aaron Smith's passing.
Best 9 I've seen IMHO.
Fast as fuck too, with great speed endurance.
@MiketheSnow said in NH International Rugby:
Fast as fuck too, with great speed endurance.
So was Super Sid.
There's a video on Youtube of most of the '72 Wales NZ game. Apart from nicking the ball, seemingly at will, out of Gareth Edwards' scrum put in, he set up a try by sheer pace down the side line - absolutely blitzed the Welsh defence. Had a shit pass though.