New Zealand rise to No. 2 in Test rankings for the first time

@rotated said in New Zealand rise to No. 2 in Test rankings for the first time:

@Crucial said in New Zealand rise to No. 2 in Test rankings for the first time:

It has that feel of the aussie ice speed skater that won gold when everyone in front of him crashed.

Yeah a little bit. For years I thought even getting top 3 in test cricket would be a massive stretch for NZ, to get 2 is incredible.

This doesn't feel like the best post-Paddles team but with the ascendance of Latham and Nicholls over the past year perhaps this is the most reliable batting line-up 1-7 we've had.

It's probably the right way for us to go about it too... feels like others have gone backwards.

India clearly number 1, Australia struggling, England patchy over the last few years, and we're slightly less 'hot and cold' than the others.

This is also due to a historic series win in Pakistan - that throws some serious shade on our competitors.

@rotated said in New Zealand rise to No. 2 in Test rankings for the first time:

@Crucial said in New Zealand rise to No. 2 in Test rankings for the first time:

It has that feel of the aussie ice speed skater that won gold when everyone in front of him crashed.

Yeah a little bit. For years I thought even getting top 3 in test cricket would be a massive stretch for NZ, to get 2 is incredible.

This doesn't feel like the best post-Paddles team but with the ascendance of Latham and Nicholls over the past year perhaps this is the most reliable batting line-up 1-7 we've had.

no perhaps about it, luckily the rest make up for CDGH.

We've had better fast bowlers in the past but never a trio as good as the one we have now.

Weak at spin and all rounder, very strong elsewhere.

@MN5 said in New Zealand rise to No. 2 in Test rankings for the first time:

@rotated said in New Zealand rise to No. 2 in Test rankings for the first time:

@Crucial said in New Zealand rise to No. 2 in Test rankings for the first time:

It has that feel of the aussie ice speed skater that won gold when everyone in front of him crashed.

Yeah a little bit. For years I thought even getting top 3 in test cricket would be a massive stretch for NZ, to get 2 is incredible.

This doesn't feel like the best post-Paddles team but with the ascendance of Latham and Nicholls over the past year perhaps this is the most reliable batting line-up 1-7 we've had.

no perhaps about it, luckily the rest make up for CDGH.

We've had better fast bowlers in the past but never a trio as good as the one we have now.

Weak at spin and all rounder, very strong elsewhere.

Very strong batting - arguably the best we've ever had.

Currently:
Kane - 2
Nicholls - 5
Latham - 12
Taylor - 19

@nzzp said in New Zealand rise to No. 2 in Test rankings for the first time:

@MN5 said in New Zealand rise to No. 2 in Test rankings for the first time:

@rotated said in New Zealand rise to No. 2 in Test rankings for the first time:

@Crucial said in New Zealand rise to No. 2 in Test rankings for the first time:

It has that feel of the aussie ice speed skater that won gold when everyone in front of him crashed.

Yeah a little bit. For years I thought even getting top 3 in test cricket would be a massive stretch for NZ, to get 2 is incredible.

This doesn't feel like the best post-Paddles team but with the ascendance of Latham and Nicholls over the past year perhaps this is the most reliable batting line-up 1-7 we've had.

no perhaps about it, luckily the rest make up for CDGH.

We've had better fast bowlers in the past but never a trio as good as the one we have now.

Weak at spin and all rounder, very strong elsewhere.

Very strong batting - arguably the best we've ever had.

Currently:
Kane - 2
Nicholls - 5
Latham - 12
Taylor - 19

shocked Taylor is that low to be honest but his all time record speaks for itself.

Nicholls continues to amaze in a good way...

Pretty much highlights how more stable we are compared to other sides.
Australia in disarray the past 12 months and having do without their only 2 world class fluffybunnies I mean batsmen.
England’s top order is a shambles other then Joe Root
South Africa has an aging team and seems to mostly rely on past glories.
Pakistan up and down
Sri Lanka this surprise series win aside have been on a downward slide for a couple years( which you would expect when you loose your greatest players close together)

We have a settled top 7 batting line up with 2 of the best batsmen in our history along with one of our best openers and batting keeper. And now a #5 who is getting better and better.
Throw in a decent bowling attack and it’s pretty much perfect storm for us to be where we are.
Even if the other teams were better off we would definitely would be top 4 or 5 in the world.

@Virgil said in New Zealand rise to No. 2 in Test rankings for the first time:

Pretty much highlights how more stable we are compared to other sides.
Australia in disarray the past 12 months and having do without their only 2 world class fluffybunnies I mean batsmen.
England’s top order is a shambles other then Joe Root
South Africa has an aging team and seems to mostly rely on past glories.
Pakistan up and down
Sri Lanka this surprise series win aside have been on a downward slide for a couple years( which you would expect when you loose your greatest players close together)

We have a settled top 7 batting line up with 2 of the best batsmen in our history along with one of our best openers and batting keeper. And now a #5 who is getting better and better.
Throw in a decent bowling attack and it’s pretty much perfect storm for us to be where we are.
Even if the other teams were better off we would definitely would be top 4 or 5 in the world.

Further to this. rose tinted glasses aside what did we have in the 80s ? our GOAT and second best ever batsman, Andrew Jones was a fine player too.....but aside from them none of the rest were much more than a gutsy bunch of honest triers.

@MN5 said in New Zealand rise to No. 2 in Test rankings for the first time:

Further to this. rose tinted glasses aside what did we have in the 80s ? our GOAT and second best ever batsman, Andrew Jones was a fine player too.....but aside from them none of the rest were much more than a gutsy bunch of honest triers.

Wright and Edgar were a competent opening partnership with Wright being worthy of a mention in the class of Jones. Smith was the class gloveman of his time and an above average attacking batsman before the position transformed.

It's kind of like saying what other quicks did we have beside Paddles? Chats wasn't a match winner (the Windies probably had 10 quicks better than him at a point in the 80's) on his own but was a perfectly adequate foil to Paddles.

@dogmeat said in New Zealand rise to No. 2 in Test rankings for the first time:

I get where you're coming from but what are the alternatives. I guess Fleming's team of the late 90's early 2000's?

There were teams in the '01-04 window that went toe to toe with some very good Australian, English and South African teams. Mixed results but they rarely got pantsed.

Perhaps it is because they haven't had a true acid tests. The last two years the only series played were SA (h), Windies (h), England (h), Pakistan (n), Pakistan (h) and Sri Lanka (h). So no true away series (not that beating Pakistan in UAE is easy, no Australia. The signature win is the pink ball test IMO, but they need something more to put them over the top IMO.

@rotated said in New Zealand rise to No. 2 in Test rankings for the first time:

@MN5 said in New Zealand rise to No. 2 in Test rankings for the first time:

Further to this. rose tinted glasses aside what did we have in the 80s ? our GOAT and second best ever batsman, Andrew Jones was a fine player too.....but aside from them none of the rest were much more than a gutsy bunch of honest triers.

Wright and Edgar were a competent opening partnership with Wright being worthy of a mention in the class of Jones. Smith was the class gloveman of his time and an above average attacking batsman before the position transformed.

It's kind of like saying what other quicks did we have beside Paddles? Chats wasn't a match winner (the Windies probably had 10 quicks better than him at a point in the 80's) on his own but was a perfectly adequate foil to Paddles.

Obviously Hadlee was head and shoulders our best player of the 80s teams, the only guy that was truly world class. I think part of the folklore behind the teams of that era comes from the underarm 81 legacy

@MN5 said in New Zealand rise to No. 2 in Test rankings for the first time:

@Virgil said in New Zealand rise to No. 2 in Test rankings for the first time:

Pretty much highlights how more stable we are compared to other sides.
Australia in disarray the past 12 months and having do without their only 2 world class fluffybunnies I mean batsmen.
England’s top order is a shambles other then Joe Root
South Africa has an aging team and seems to mostly rely on past glories.
Pakistan up and down
Sri Lanka this surprise series win aside have been on a downward slide for a couple years( which you would expect when you loose your greatest players close together)

We have a settled top 7 batting line up with 2 of the best batsmen in our history along with one of our best openers and batting keeper. And now a #5 who is getting better and better.
Throw in a decent bowling attack and it’s pretty much perfect storm for us to be where we are.
Even if the other teams were better off we would definitely would be top 4 or 5 in the world.

Further to this. rose tinted glasses aside what did we have in the 80s ? our GOAT and second best ever batsman, Andrew Jones was a fine player too.....but aside from them none of the rest were much more than a gutsy bunch of honest triers.

I'd say the best team in the '80s pre-dates Andrew Jones...probably pretty close to this one.

@canefan said in New Zealand rise to No. 2 in Test rankings for the first time:

@rotated said in New Zealand rise to No. 2 in Test rankings for the first time:

@MN5 said in New Zealand rise to No. 2 in Test rankings for the first time:

Further to this. rose tinted glasses aside what did we have in the 80s ? our GOAT and second best ever batsman, Andrew Jones was a fine player too.....but aside from them none of the rest were much more than a gutsy bunch of honest triers.

Wright and Edgar were a competent opening partnership with Wright being worthy of a mention in the class of Jones. Smith was the class gloveman of his time and an above average attacking batsman before the position transformed.

It's kind of like saying what other quicks did we have beside Paddles? Chats wasn't a match winner (the Windies probably had 10 quicks better than him at a point in the 80's) on his own but was a perfectly adequate foil to Paddles.

Obviously Hadlee was head and shoulders our best player of the 80s teams, the only guy that was truly world class. I think part of the folklore behind the teams of that era comes from the underarm 81 legacy

A certain MD Crowe wasn’t bad either...

@Virgil said in New Zealand rise to No. 2 in Test rankings for the first time:

@canefan said in New Zealand rise to No. 2 in Test rankings for the first time:

@rotated said in New Zealand rise to No. 2 in Test rankings for the first time:

@MN5 said in New Zealand rise to No. 2 in Test rankings for the first time:

Further to this. rose tinted glasses aside what did we have in the 80s ? our GOAT and second best ever batsman, Andrew Jones was a fine player too.....but aside from them none of the rest were much more than a gutsy bunch of honest triers.

Wright and Edgar were a competent opening partnership with Wright being worthy of a mention in the class of Jones. Smith was the class gloveman of his time and an above average attacking batsman before the position transformed.

It's kind of like saying what other quicks did we have beside Paddles? Chats wasn't a match winner (the Windies probably had 10 quicks better than him at a point in the 80's) on his own but was a perfectly adequate foil to Paddles.

Obviously Hadlee was head and shoulders our best player of the 80s teams, the only guy that was truly world class. I think part of the folklore behind the teams of that era comes from the underarm 81 legacy

A certain MD Crowe wasn’t bad either...

Ah shit not this again....

Virg in your opinion has KW eclipsed Crowe yet?

@Chris-B Spot on - and that team went on to win in England the next year.

Which brings us to the biggest differentiator between the golden age of the 80's and today (and Fleming's team)

As @rotated mentioned re the turn of the century team the current bunch just haven't had the high profile successes

The team of the mid 80's set all kinds of first - first away win against England and Australia. First series wins against both. Only team to beat the Windies in a series for a decade. Didn't lose a series at home in the 80's. Plus Hadlee setting all sorts of records. Given the abject record we had prior to that it was a remarkable epoch and so always seems just a little bit grander, the performances a little bit better the failures just a little more palatable. Journeymen become collossus' captains masters of strategy and trundlers demon quicks

@dogmeat We went for ages undefeated in series at home.

Of that specific team - I think that was the end of Big Lance - so maybe a later iteration, which presumably had Snedden in was stronger.

A bit earlier, Geoff Howarth and the second coming of Turner were both very good batsmen - well, until Geoff's eyesight went. In the early 80s, he briefly averaged over 40.

@Chris-B I'm less enamoured of the undefeated at home record. As the decade drew to a close koff koff doctored pitches became a thing in order to ensure we didn't lose the record (allegedly)

@dogmeat Yeah - I recall an element of that - but, nonetheless we were good enough not to lose on those doctored pitches - unlike the Young Guns of the 1990s.

@Chris-B said in New Zealand rise to No. 2 in Test rankings for the first time:

@MN5 said in New Zealand rise to No. 2 in Test rankings for the first time:

@Virgil said in New Zealand rise to No. 2 in Test rankings for the first time:

Pretty much highlights how more stable we are compared to other sides.
Australia in disarray the past 12 months and having do without their only 2 world class fluffybunnies I mean batsmen.
England’s top order is a shambles other then Joe Root
South Africa has an aging team and seems to mostly rely on past glories.
Pakistan up and down
Sri Lanka this surprise series win aside have been on a downward slide for a couple years( which you would expect when you loose your greatest players close together)

We have a settled top 7 batting line up with 2 of the best batsmen in our history along with one of our best openers and batting keeper. And now a #5 who is getting better and better.
Throw in a decent bowling attack and it’s pretty much perfect storm for us to be where we are.
Even if the other teams were better off we would definitely would be top 4 or 5 in the world.

Further to this. rose tinted glasses aside what did we have in the 80s ? our GOAT and second best ever batsman, Andrew Jones was a fine player too.....but aside from them none of the rest were much more than a gutsy bunch of honest triers.

I'd say the best team in the '80s pre-dates Andrew Jones...probably pretty close to this one.

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That series team were exceptional. I don't recall us owning many teams like that, I remember Coney fighting a lot of rearguard actions though. Those guys can dine out on that one for life, the current team would kill to dominate the aussies in Oz like that

@canefan said in New Zealand rise to No. 2 in Test rankings for the first time:

That series team were exceptional. I don't recall us owning many teams like that, I remember Coney fighting a lot of rearguard actions though. Those guys can dine out on that one for life, the current team would kill to dominate the aussies in Oz like that

You reckon? Taylor led a side (without Vettori) to beat Aussie heads up for the only time in nearly thirty years and gets absolutely no credit for it why would the current team be highly regarded if they did the same?

I'd back the current line up over the 1980s if we look at individuals compared to their opposite numbers, but it's quite close. I think any of the line ups with M Crowe and Wright are fine - trading Edgar and Reid for Franklin and Jones isn't too bad, Coney is underrated, Smith was a top keeper in his time, Hadlee was the best, Bracewell was decent and Chatfield was a top foil for Hadlee.

@Godder said in New Zealand rise to No. 2 in Test rankings for the first time:

I'd back the current line up over the 1980s if we look at individuals compared to their opposite numbers, but it's quite close.

I just have visions of Hadlee tearing through any side, in almost any conditions. He was so good, and wickets win test matches, so it would be all on. I guess I'm saying that any side with Hadlee is a contender