@Chris said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):
Has anyone forced their way into the top 23 if SA Selection for game one is the top 23 ?
Todd didn't play against S Africa; he suffered a minor injury before that game and probably would have been in the 23 without the injury. So he might play in the big games (from the bench).
@Billy-Webb I guess we might find that out in the QF's:japanese_dolls: :face_with_stuck-out_tongue:
@MajorRage said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):
Ok all jokes aside about Rieko, there is no doubt that on current form he's not in the big match day 23.
However, I think Rieko's ceiling is much higher than that of either Bridge or Reece, and therefore he should be given much opportunity to regain confidence & form. I would do that via 60 minutes (at least) in both of the remaining pool matches, as Bridge & Reece should both get time as well.
I'm still a bit lost on Ben Smith. Arguably my biggest man crush of the last few years, but he just doesn't look as dynamic as either of the two (current) incumbents ... and its clear the Mo'ounga / Barrett combo is not going to change.
Decisions, decisions.
It's weird what's happening with Ioane eh. Have to wonder if it's something to do with the way the AB's play that he's really struggling to adjust to? He was pretty good for the Blues this season wasn't he? Same with Ben Smith - both at the moment just seem to really struggle with finding/creating space and just look lacklustre.
I'm not so sure on Ioane's ceiling being that much higher though. Some positive signs today for sure.
Impossible to take anything from this game after 35 minutes - humidity was a greater factor than the opposition. Ever played against a team so bad that they get in the way solely because better teams shouldn't be there?
Bonus point win and no known injuries, I'll take that.
@KiwiMurph said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):
I thought Rieko started to show some positive signs in the second half. Something to build on.
He's still a long way behind Bridge and Reece at the moment though. They are the clear cut starters.
Agreed.
I counted a few dropped balls early on (before we really started dropping it and even then it tended to be the forwards who were sweaty) and a lot of runs that were pretty ineffective (i.e. running into defenders immediately when given some space).
Checking the stats, there's nothing too good or bad in there considering the options and I haven't seen enough of the second half yet (gaddamn work getting in the way of rugby...).
If he was hoping to prove he was back in contention against a weaker team, I think he's still at least one game away from doing that.
Frizzle is still a bit of a "jurys out" headscratcher moment.
He started very well, but faded as the game wore on.
Thought Weber speeded up our backline play and gave the backs more freedom to stretch the attack. But I take the point about replacing A Smith in a Quarter/semi/final with him, he is dynamic but TJ has the experience, and seems to have better perspective in the big games.
Can see Todd easily making the bench.
The conundrum is BBBR and how they will accommodate him.
I can only assume people seeing positivity and improvement in Ioane are the same that saw Rokocoko in dynamic form in his last year. Seeing what they want, as opposed to what is happening.
Make no mistake, I want Ioane back in the team, over Reece. He just doesn't deserve it at the moment.
@MajorRage I think Reece is the NMS of 2019. He is so new and fresh and positive; just laps it all up gladly and is happy just to be in the mix. Exactly what the coaches want. Someone they can mould.
Possibly (both) Ioanes have an attitude about them, which maybe (just maybe) has an effect on their play.
@Chris said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):
@MajorRage said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):
@Chris said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):
Has anyone forced their way into the top 23 if SA Selection for game one is the top 23 ?
Weber perhaps?
Game changed when he came on great pass and runs great support lines would not have thought that was a chance to take TJs spot before the WC but Webber was very good.
I agree. I can't see how anyone thought he was anything other than excellent when he came on (at least compared to TJP). He kept it simple, did his job, got the ball out quickly, backed-up well and, importantly, didn't try to do too much himself. Based on that performance, I'd feel much more confident having him to come on and guide us home in the last 10 mins of a RWC knockout match.
@junior said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):
@Chris said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):
@MajorRage said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):
@Chris said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):
Has anyone forced their way into the top 23 if SA Selection for game one is the top 23 ?
Weber perhaps?
Game changed when he came on great pass and runs great support lines would not have thought that was a chance to take TJs spot before the WC but Webber was very good.
I agree. I can't see how anyone thought he was anything other than excellent when he came on (at least compared to TJP). He kept it simple, did his job, got the ball out quickly, backed-up well and, importantly, didn't try to do too much himself. Based on that performance, I'd feel much more confident having him to come on and guide us home in the last 10 mins of a RWC knockout match.
Really?!?! You would have Webber supplant TJP, who at times has challenged A Smith hard for the starting job this year, based on 35 minutes against Canada? You set your bar much lower than me
@Jailbreak7 said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):
Frizzle is still a bit of a "jurys out" headscratcher moment.
He started very well, but faded as the game wore on.
Thought Weber speeded up our backline play and gave the backs more freedom to stretch the attack. But I take the point about replacing A Smith in a Quarter/semi/final with him, he is dynamic but TJ has the experience, and seems to have better perspective in the big games.
Can see Todd easily making the bench.
The conundrum is BBBR and how they will accommodate him.
Completely disagree with that. TJP has had one decent game against big opposition and that was in 2014 against England at Twickers where he guided our pack around like a professional dog-walker. He's been absolutely shit in every big test he's come on since then - none more so than Lions 2 and 3, where he completely bottled it (and let's not forget Boks 1 in 2018). There's a good reason why, despite having a significant period out with injury beforehand, TKB usurped him as the preferred bench option in the big matches at the last world cup.
@canefan said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):
@junior said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):
@Chris said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):
@MajorRage said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):
@Chris said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):
Has anyone forced their way into the top 23 if SA Selection for game one is the top 23 ?
Weber perhaps?
Game changed when he came on great pass and runs great support lines would not have thought that was a chance to take TJs spot before the WC but Webber was very good.
I agree. I can't see how anyone thought he was anything other than excellent when he came on (at least compared to TJP). He kept it simple, did his job, got the ball out quickly, backed-up well and, importantly, didn't try to do too much himself. Based on that performance, I'd feel much more confident having him to come on and guide us home in the last 10 mins of a RWC knockout match.
Really?!?! You would have Webber supplant TJP, who at times has challenged A Smith hard for the starting job this year, based on 35 minutes against Canada? You set your bar much lower than me
I actually set it quite high for halfbacks, but my metrics might be different to others. TJP is a great rugby player with a good "rugby brain", hence why he scores so many tries by running really good support lines. My problem is that's not what he should be doing - he's a halfback not an openside flanker. His pass is shit, his kicking is shit, he's selfish and greedy, his option-taking is often poor, he plays for himself more than the team and - crucially - he's not calm or smart enough to be entrusted with such a key role (at which he's not particularly proficient technically), particularly in such a crucial match. I'd much rather have Weber there in such moments, because at least you know he'll pass fast and accurately to the guys who should be taking control (e.g. Mo'unga and Barrett) rather than trying to be a hero and do it all himself.
@gt12 said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):
2007 called, ah, it's Brendan Leonard, saying something about his game not suiting knock out rugby.
...Kelleher in 1999 and to a lesser extent 2003 after Marshall got his ribs smashed.
All jokes aside, and apologies if it's been mentioned above, but three brothers playing for the same team in the WC and all scoring tries in the same match.
One of the stories of the WC.
Of any WC.
@gt12 said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):
2007 called, ah, it's Brendan Leonard, saying something about his game not suiting knock out rugby.
That's a fair comment and I agree it was one of the most epically retarded selections in AB history (in my view). But that's for the same reason why I don't rate TJP - Leonard looked awesome because he was quick and scored some nice tries. However, like TJP, he was technically horrible. Of course, we only found out he was a deer in the headlights when the pressure was on in the 2007 QF. I accept that we know about the same amount about Weber's temperament and he may also crumble like a biscuit in a high pressure situation. However, we already know that TJP is volatile and reacts poorly in high-pressure situations, so why would we select him for such a situation given this knowledge?
@rotated said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):
@gt12 said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):
2007 called, ah, it's Brendan Leonard, saying something about his game not suiting knock out rugby.
...Kelleher in 1999 and to a lesser extent 2003 after Marshall got his ribs smashed.
The other option in 2003 was Devine, who I would have chosen because of his technical proficiency, the fact he'd been the incumbent number 2 for most of the year and the fact that he had a good combo with 'Los. Of course, Kelleher's experience was the deciding factor - which it seems to be in the TJP vs. Weber debate (to the extent that there is one) - and we all know how useful that experience was (it proved equally useful again in 2007...)
@junior said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):
@canefan said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):
@junior said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):
@Chris said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):
@MajorRage said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):
@Chris said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):
Has anyone forced their way into the top 23 if SA Selection for game one is the top 23 ?
Weber perhaps?
Game changed when he came on great pass and runs great support lines would not have thought that was a chance to take TJs spot before the WC but Webber was very good.
I agree. I can't see how anyone thought he was anything other than excellent when he came on (at least compared to TJP). He kept it simple, did his job, got the ball out quickly, backed-up well and, importantly, didn't try to do too much himself. Based on that performance, I'd feel much more confident having him to come on and guide us home in the last 10 mins of a RWC knockout match.
Really?!?! You would have Webber supplant TJP, who at times has challenged A Smith hard for the starting job this year, based on 35 minutes against Canada? You set your bar much lower than me
I actually set it quite high for halfbacks, but my metrics might be different to others. TJP is a great rugby player with a good "rugby brain", hence why he scores so many tries by running really good support lines. My problem is that's not what he should be doing - he's a halfback not an openside flanker. His pass is shit, his kicking is shit, he's selfish and greedy, his option-taking is often poor, he plays for himself more than the team and - crucially - he's not calm or smart enough to be entrusted with such a key role (at which he's not particularly proficient technically), particularly in such a crucial match. I'd much rather have Weber there in such moments, because at least you know he'll pass fast and accurately to the guys who should be taking control (e.g. Mo'unga and Barrett) rather than trying to be a hero and do it all himself.
Savage........but can't say I disagree either. TJP should've improved a lot over the last WC cycle, but not sure I see it
@TeWaio said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):
@junior said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):
@canefan said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):
@junior said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):
@Chris said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):
@MajorRage said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):
@Chris said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):
Has anyone forced their way into the top 23 if SA Selection for game one is the top 23 ?
Weber perhaps?
Game changed when he came on great pass and runs great support lines would not have thought that was a chance to take TJs spot before the WC but Webber was very good.
I agree. I can't see how anyone thought he was anything other than excellent when he came on (at least compared to TJP). He kept it simple, did his job, got the ball out quickly, backed-up well and, importantly, didn't try to do too much himself. Based on that performance, I'd feel much more confident having him to come on and guide us home in the last 10 mins of a RWC knockout match.
Really?!?! You would have Webber supplant TJP, who at times has challenged A Smith hard for the starting job this year, based on 35 minutes against Canada? You set your bar much lower than me
I actually set it quite high for halfbacks, but my metrics might be different to others. TJP is a great rugby player with a good "rugby brain", hence why he scores so many tries by running really good support lines. My problem is that's not what he should be doing - he's a halfback not an openside flanker. His pass is shit, his kicking is shit, he's selfish and greedy, his option-taking is often poor, he plays for himself more than the team and - crucially - he's not calm or smart enough to be entrusted with such a key role (at which he's not particularly proficient technically), particularly in such a crucial match. I'd much rather have Weber there in such moments, because at least you know he'll pass fast and accurately to the guys who should be taking control (e.g. Mo'unga and Barrett) rather than trying to be a hero and do it all himself.
Savage........but can't say I disagree either. TJP should've improved a lot over the last WC cycle, but not sure I see it
I agree and his development (or lack thereof) has been incredibly disappointing.
Technically he's not up to scratch - he reminds of a cricketer who looks shit-hot smashing a white ball around 20/20 leagues all over the globe, but who turns to shit as soon as he's playing in whites and facing a swinging red ball (I'm looking at you Jason Roy).
@NTA said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):
C'mon Canada score a fucking try. Even a point! Need to get up at 5
Hard luck, Nick. These All Blacks are ruthless.
@NTA said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):
Didn't make 70.
Soft.
Saving that for when we play Australia.
modules:composer.user_said_in, @MiketheSnow, RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B)
All jokes aside, and apologies if it's been mentioned above, but three brothers playing for the same team in the WC and all scoring tries in the same match.
One of the stories of the WC.
Of any WC.
Slightly disappointed that Jordie didn't drop the ball cold too, even better stat then!
@Hooroo said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):
Poor ole Ioane is a shadow of his former try scoring days.
I don't think Reiko's Fortnite addiction has helped him prepare mentally or physically for the Rugby World Cup.
So disappointing how the Ioane brothers have turned out when you think what they could have achieved in NZ Rugby.
@sparky said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):
I don't think Reiko's Fortnite addiction has helped him prepare mentally or physically for the Rugby World Cup.
What the fuck would you possibly know about his personal life? Don't make up shit just to have something even more over the top to post.
I wouldn’t write him off altogether, I think it’s a form, confidence, timing , mojo thing ( all the above ) , like a batsman out of touch, he may just need that one good game for it all to click,
But for now, this wc is right now, stick with the two in the best form imo
Brother Akira and fellow All Blacks Jordie Barrett and Ardie Savea are just some of the names that often make up Ioane's star-studded gaming squad.
What possible conclusion could you draw from that? Professional athletes play video games - big whoop.
How could you possibly claim to know that it affects his performance? You absolutely cannot.
Anyone saying TJP is under threat from Weber doesn't have a clue imo. You can read zilch into this game. I will be stunned if Weber plays anymore than the pools games barring injury to AS or TJP. Can’t believe the topic has even been raised.
(Will gladly admit fallibility if his name read our for ¼)
@Billy-Tell all I know is I am currently in fiji for a wedding and my $60 on weber last try scorer paid half the trip!
Thanks BB for the fumble aka the ultimate troll on scott
@sparky said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):
@NTA said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):
Didn't make 70.
Soft.
Saving that for when we play Australia.
Pffft. Bigger fool you! We're not going to survive the quarters.
@Bones said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):
@MajorRage said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):
Ok all jokes aside about Rieko, there is no doubt that on current form he's not in the big match day 23.
However, I think Rieko's ceiling is much higher than that of either Bridge or Reece, and therefore he should be given much opportunity to regain confidence & form. I would do that via 60 minutes (at least) in both of the remaining pool matches, as Bridge & Reece should both get time as well.
I'm still a bit lost on Ben Smith. Arguably my biggest man crush of the last few years, but he just doesn't look as dynamic as either of the two (current) incumbents ... and its clear the Mo'ounga / Barrett combo is not going to change.
Decisions, decisions.
It's weird what's happening with Ioane eh. Have to wonder if it's something to do with the way the AB's play that he's really struggling to adjust to? He was pretty good for the Blues this season wasn't he? Same with Ben Smith - both at the moment just seem to really struggle with finding/creating space and just look lacklustre.
I'm not so sure on Ioane's ceiling being that much higher though. Some positive signs today for sure.
Has crossed my mind if way Akira was treated has affected him? Think SBW gifted him that try -- seems to see himself as a bit of a mentor?
@Tim said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):
Brother Akira and fellow All Blacks Jordie Barrett and Ardie Savea are just some of the names that often make up Ioane's star-studded gaming squad.
What possible conclusion could you draw from that? Professional athletes play video games - big whoop.
How could you possibly claim to know that it affects his performance? You absolutely cannot.
Lomu used to play heaps of video games too, he notably sucked for the All Blacks...
@Kirwan said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):
@Tim said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):
Brother Akira and fellow All Blacks Jordie Barrett and Ardie Savea are just some of the names that often make up Ioane's star-studded gaming squad.
What possible conclusion could you draw from that? Professional athletes play video games - big whoop.
How could you possibly claim to know that it affects his performance? You absolutely cannot.
Lomu used to play heaps of video games too, he notably sucked for the All Blacks...
I never really got into video games, wonder if that's why I never made it?
@voodoo said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):
@Kirwan said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):
@Tim said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):
Brother Akira and fellow All Blacks Jordie Barrett and Ardie Savea are just some of the names that often make up Ioane's star-studded gaming squad.
What possible conclusion could you draw from that? Professional athletes play video games - big whoop.
How could you possibly claim to know that it affects his performance? You absolutely cannot.
Lomu used to play heaps of video games too, he notably sucked for the All Blacks...
I never really got into video games, wonder if that's why I never made it?
If that's what it took, I would be an AB Great.
@Billy-Tell said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):
Anyone saying TJP is under threat from Weber doesn't have a clue imo. You can read zilch into this game. I will be stunned if Weber plays anymore than the pools games barring injury to AS or TJP. Can’t believe the topic has even been raised.
(Will gladly admit fallibility if his name read our for ¼)
There is literally no point in assuming much from this game except that Atu Moli isn't playing the next one (because Hansen said so in the post match - all of the rotations in this game were due to Angus, Ofa & Nepo being required for the next one.
The AB's would have soooo many plans and ideas about how they will be looking to build for the 1/4 final - that only they would know what they were trying to achieve.
What was clear though, was when they turn it on - fuck they're hard to cope with. The first 15min in each half was dynamite!
@junior said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):
@canefan said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):
@junior said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):
@Chris said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):
@MajorRage said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):
@Chris said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B):
Has anyone forced their way into the top 23 if SA Selection for game one is the top 23 ?
Weber perhaps?
Game changed when he came on great pass and runs great support lines would not have thought that was a chance to take TJs spot before the WC but Webber was very good.
I agree. I can't see how anyone thought he was anything other than excellent when he came on (at least compared to TJP). He kept it simple, did his job, got the ball out quickly, backed-up well and, importantly, didn't try to do too much himself. Based on that performance, I'd feel much more confident having him to come on and guide us home in the last 10 mins of a RWC knockout match.
Really?!?! You would have Webber supplant TJP, who at times has challenged A Smith hard for the starting job this year, based on 35 minutes against Canada? You set your bar much lower than me
I actually set it quite high for halfbacks, but my metrics might be different to others. TJP is a great rugby player with a good "rugby brain", hence why he scores so many tries by running really good support lines. My problem is that's not what he should be doing - he's a halfback not an openside flanker. His pass is shit, his kicking is shit, he's selfish and greedy, his option-taking is often poor, he plays for himself more than the team and - crucially - he's not calm or smart enough to be entrusted with such a key role (at which he's not particularly proficient technically), particularly in such a crucial match. I'd much rather have Weber there in such moments, because at least you know he'll pass fast and accurately to the guys who should be taking control (e.g. Mo'unga and Barrett) rather than trying to be a hero and do it all himself.
i actually have a bit of sympathy with this point of view. TJP is all of those things. His pass is ropey as fuck (he threw some shockers last night), his kicking is ordinary, and he has cost us games by being a bit shit. He's got Kelleher in 2003 written all over him (but with a worse pass).
It's just that Weber isn't great either, and they aren't making that change now.
