This is the most interesting sports story at the moment by miles. So many interesting threads to it all.
The core truth is the PGA Tour is broken and it's hurting golf. It's a 52 week schedule with only 8 or so tournaments that actually mean anything. But the other 44 have served to slowly suck the oxygen out of the rest of world golf.
The Australian Open is a case in point. It used to attract a great field, good (not great) prize money, played on some beautiful courses. But now it can't compete with the Bumfuck Open, because it offers more money but also it's critical for mid-tier pros to play as often as they can on the PGA Tour.
But it's more than just the impact on the international game. The PGA fields are bloated. The courses are dull. The formats are tired. It's the same shit each week. The PGA Tour is dying for a shake-up.
So in one sense, LIV Golf may well spark the PGA Tour into action because it is a major threat to it's future.
The amount of cash being thrown at has-been or never-was players is staggering and they are just getting started. Reed and Dechambeau are gone. Rickie Fowler gone. Harold Varner, Jason Kokrak, Abe Ancer, some South Americans, maybe Adam Scott will go soon too.
But the format of LIV is ridiculous. Team golf is amazing when the teams actually have a history and a reason for being. I care about Europe vs America, not FC Smash against the Lip-Out Lads. Not to mention the shotgun starts and all the other garbage. And of course the Saudi blood money that underpins it all.
I don't like LIV, I won't watch it, but I do hope it might spark some good outcomes overall.
@antipodean said in Golf:
Just going for the money
Professional sportsmen. I don't begrudge them that as much as I thought I might. It's really up to the administration of these sports to ensure they maintain their relevance.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not judging. And regarding Barbarian's post, I think he has articulated many of the players' concerns about the PGA in a way Phil wished he had
7 days later
@1kiwi amusingly...
"I get to have a life outside of the game of golf as well. [It's] a business decision for my family's future."
Bryson has no wife or children...I suspect the LIV folk gave them some standard responses...unless he failed to add, when I have one in the future
Who cares, fuck, let the fluffybunnies play golf.
@taniwharugby said in Golf:
@1kiwi amusingly...
"I get to have a life outside of the game of golf as well. [It's] a business decision for my family's future."
Bryson has no wife or children...I suspect the LIV folk gave them some standard responses...unless he failed to add, when I have one in the future
Who cares, fuck, let the fluffybunnies play golf.
He doesn't strike me as the sharpest tool in the shed
Fantastic win for Fitzpatrick in the US Open. Zalatoris is the bridesmaid once again.
check out this play down the 18th. Incredible bunker shot under pressure
@MajorRage Yes that bunker shot was his moment to seize triumph or disaster - and we have seen disaster often at the 18th of a major. The PGA was the first time he was in the mix for a major on the final day and he flubbed it - but he hit 17 out of 18 greens on the day, with a hot putter he would have strolled to the win.
Zalatoris is already setting himself up in the Colin Montgomerie role - he hasn't even won a PGA event yet but has top 10 finishes in 6 of the last 7 majors he has played in - with 3 runners-up finishes.
Was a cracking open. Leaderboard chocked full of big game players. Great course that killed you if you were wayward.
Give me Zalatoris' record over a guy like Cantlay every day. A major top 5 is worth more than winning the Boise State Open Presented by Taco Bell. But you get the feeling he needs to win one soon.
Can't wait for the British at St Andrews.
@MajorRage Yes that bunker shot was his moment to seize triumph or disaster - and we have seen disaster often at the 18th of a major. The PGA was the first time he was in the mix for a major on the final day and he flubbed it - but he hit 17 out of 18 greens on the day, with a hot putter he would have strolled to the win.
Zalatoris is already setting himself up in the Colin Montgomerie role - he hasn't even won a PGA event yet but has top 10 finishes in 6 of the last 7 majors he has played in - with 3 runners-up finishes.
It was a phenomenal shot in its own right but to do it when your opponent had middled the fairway with a driver with an almost perfect tee shot, all on the last hole of a major.
It was a brilliant finish and I do feel for Zalatoris on that putt that was millimetres from landing.
The more high profile players that jump to LIV thr sooner the PGA will need to reach a compromise.
@barbarian said in Golf:
Was a cracking open. Leaderboard chocked full of big game players. Great course that killed you if you were wayward.
Give me Zalatoris' record over a guy like Cantlay every day. A major top 5 is worth more than winning the Boise State Open Presented by Taco Bell. But you get the feeling he needs to win one soon.
Can't wait for the British at St Andrews.
Yes the time of year when people will point out to you that it is The Open and not the British Open.
22 days later
Cameron Young with a dream first round -8. Nailed a good birdie on the 18th to finish his day.
Old man Ernie Els is -5 after 13 and is swinging like he was 20 years ago.
Love the Open, love the old course.
By rights the players should be ripping it to shreds in light conditions, but the course has put up an admirable fight.
Love where Cam Smith is. Didn't think he played all that well but his chipping and putting is so good he just hangs in there. The course is so well suited to him, getting up and down is probably going to separate the men from the boys.
@barbarian unreal that the leader his all 18 greens in regulation. Yes they are unnaturally large but balls were screaming off them too.
Super round.
Ryan Fox there or thereabouts at -1 and I think the other Kiwi is +1
The greens were playing fast and some weren’t dealing well with it.
A bit of controversy today about how long it took for some of the groups to complete the round. I read that it took some 6 hours! Someone on Twitter posted “Max Homa estimates it took them an hour just to play No. 14.”
@ACT-Crusader The mix of tough pins and driveable par 4s is a horrible combination for pace of play.
Congrats to Cam Smith. Nicely done
Managed to win a few bucks by picking him as the outright winner at $23
Keep an eye on Cameron Young from the USA over the next few years, will be a major champion at some point, kids got game.
Unreal performance from Smith. That back 9 was unbelievable.
His putting is the best I've seen from anyone bar peak Tiger. When he's hot he just does not miss.
Although the rumour is he is going to LIV Golf after the Presidents Cup. Not sure how I feel about that.
@barbarian He is also one of the best, if not the best on tour in terms of his short game as well.
This major triumph likely only the first of many for Cam. Kiwi connection too with his caddie Sam being a NZer. Nice payday for him as well I'm sure.
@barbarian said in Golf:
Unreal performance from Smith. That back 9 was unbelievable.
His putting is the best I've seen from anyone bar peak Tiger. When he's hot he just does not miss.
Although the rumour is he is going to LIV Golf after the Presidents Cup. Not sure how I feel about that.
He may as well. He has exemptions for all the majors now. No need to qualify so go make some coin
@Hooroo But does he need coin? On one level I get the appeal of LIV, but for a guy like Smith it's a bit cowardly IMO.
It's Mickey Mouse golf. No juice. If you're Lee Westwood at the end of your career then knock yourself out. But Smith could actually win some big tournaments on the tour. Tournaments at great courses with history. Nobody gives a shit if he wins a 54 hole event at a Trump course that's only shown on Youtube.
@barbarian I saw a clip from Tiger the other day, just asking what are they playing golf for now?
They dont win but still get a shedload of money, normally, you have to play well to win, wheres the challenge, what drives you?
Certainly an interesting take, and like you say, Westwood, Phil and the likes in the twilight of thier careers, rock on, but young guys, playing in the lesser format, I read soemwhere that some who were on the LIV tour were saying we dont even need to practice as much...hopefully there will be a happy medium found somewhere along the way
@taniwharugby I loved Tiger's comments. A guy like Cam Smith is renowned for his work ethic, but there's no way he's working as hard for 54 hole shotgun starts with the money already in his pocket.
In some ways it is similar to rugby players going to Japan. By all means take the cash, but there's no incentive for me to care about what you are doing or watch.
@barbarian said in Golf:
@taniwharugby I loved Tiger's comments. A guy like Cam Smith is renowned for his work ethic, but there's no way he's working as hard for 54 hole shotgun starts with the money already in his pocket.
In some ways it is similar to rugby players going to Japan. By all means take the cash, but there's no incentive for me to care about what you are doing or watch.
Maybe its a bit like Kerry Packer and WSC? Sure he wasn't backed by a ruthless authoritarian regime, but the LIV are offering better conditions, better money and less strenuous playing schedule. I could see the PGA quietly adopting a few of LIVs better ideas over time and eventually a sort of acceptance of their existence
@barbarian said in Golf:
@Hooroo But does he need coin? On one level I get the appeal of LIV, but for a guy like Smith it's a bit cowardly IMO.
It's Mickey Mouse golf. No juice. If you're Lee Westwood at the end of your career then knock yourself out. But Smith could actually win some big tournaments on the tour. Tournaments at great courses with history. Nobody gives a shit if he wins a 54 hole event at a Trump course that's only shown on Youtube.
I hear all of that.
I also haven’t needed a pay rise but have taken it happily to do a different variance of the same job. Just times it by a squillion for these guys.
I know it not directly comparable but most people are driven by money and accept more of it. Just these guys have differing opportunities than most so it’s easier to criticise.
Sometimes I’m happy with what I’ve got and then sometimes I want a nicer car. Change that for yacht/super yacht and it’s the same thing
@barbarian said in Golf:
@Hooroo But does he need coin? On one level I get the appeal of LIV, but for a guy like Smith it's a bit cowardly IMO.
It's Mickey Mouse golf. No juice. If you're Lee Westwood at the end of your career then knock yourself out. But Smith could actually win some big tournaments on the tour. Tournaments at great courses with history. Nobody gives a shit if he wins a 54 hole event at a Trump course that's only shown on Youtube.
I hear all of that.
I also haven’t needed a pay rise but have taken it happily to do a different variance of the same job. Just times it by a squillion for these guys.
I know it not directly comparable but most people are driven by money and accept more of it. Just these guys have differing opportunities than most so it’s easier to criticise.
Sometimes I’m happy with what I’ve got and then sometimes I want a nicer car. Change that for yacht/super yacht and it’s the same thing
Didn't I read that the PGA have instituted some new special lucrative events? The LIV are already having an effect. And the more top guys that jump over the more pressure on the PGA
@barbarian said in Golf:
@Hooroo But does he need coin? On one level I get the appeal of LIV, but for a guy like Smith it's a bit cowardly IMO.
It's Mickey Mouse golf. No juice. If you're Lee Westwood at the end of your career then knock yourself out. But Smith could actually win some big tournaments on the tour. Tournaments at great courses with history. Nobody gives a shit if he wins a 54 hole event at a Trump course that's only shown on Youtube.
I hear all of that.
I also haven’t needed a pay rise but have taken it happily to do a different variance of the same job. Just times it by a squillion for these guys.
I know it not directly comparable but most people are driven by money and accept more of it. Just these guys have differing opportunities than most so it’s easier to criticise.
Sometimes I’m happy with what I’ve got and then sometimes I want a nicer car. Change that for yacht/super yacht and it’s the same thing
Didn't I read that the PGA have instituted some new special lucrative events? The LIV are already having an effect. And the more top guys that jump over the more pressure on the PGA
I hope he doesn’t go across but I won’t begrudge him due to something I am used to.
@barbarian said in Golf:
@taniwharugby I loved Tiger's comments. A guy like Cam Smith is renowned for his work ethic, but there's no way he's working as hard for 54 hole shotgun starts with the money already in his pocket.
In some ways it is similar to rugby players going to Japan. By all means take the cash, but there's no incentive for me to care about what you are doing or watch.
Maybe its a bit like Kerry Packer and WSC? Sure he wasn't backed by a ruthless authoritarian regime, but the LIV are offering better conditions, better money and less strenuous playing schedule. I could see the PGA quietly adopting a few of LIVs better ideas over time and eventually a sort of acceptance of their existence
It's similar and different. The establishment tours haven't innovated as much as they should have, but they aren't hoarding money like the ACB and other Boards were back in the WSC days. PGA golfers are far from broke.
The solution though needs to be some sort of compromise.
@barbarian it’s not just about the money but about providing players with choice. The PGA has a lot of control and while there are financial incentives, I think the rebellion has been building for quite some time.
TBH I dont really care about either, I enjoy watching golf, not particularly fond of the LIV format though...was interesting seeing alot of 'feel good' type posts on the PGA social media over the weekend though.
If I could do less work for much more money, I'm there, but I also agree with what Tiger says, what drives you?
You play less, you practice less, are you still going to be as good? In my mind, you play sport for the competition, the drive to win, it seems for a few of these guys they have just won the lottery, golf is now just a hobby now (some say it is anyway, but thats a conversation for another day)
Is LIV expecting a return on investment, ever?
@ACT-Crusader My position on this is twofold.
Firstly - the PGA is ripe for revolution. Stale, too focussed on America, killing world golf, not enough variety.
However LIV is not the right answer. It might well be the one we end up with though. It's a bad format, questionable source of funding, egotistical maniac Norman at the helm, a cabal of players who I find to be either washed up or unlikeable. Add a dash of Trump in there and it's not a good picture for golf.
7 days later
